hvac pricing help in northern nj?

15 years ago

Hi all, I'm trying to get a grasp on pricing for a Central Air/Heat Pump install and was wondering if any of you had experience or input on the matter. From what I've read online and in this and other forums it seems like I'm either getting the shaft or prices in NJ are over 50% higher than the rest of the known world.

I have a small cape in Northern NJ (about 1500' of conditioned space) with hot water heat that has never had A/C before so it would need ductwork. We're doing a full tear-out remodel on the 2nd floor and I will be expanding a kneewall area for the air handler...ductwork can be run through this area for all upstairs rooms, the front half of the downstairs, and the returns...rear downstairs rooms will require ducts to be run in the floor joists (prob 3 total). By the installation begins I will have the upstairs stripped down to the framing (no drywall or insulation and virtually unobstructed access to the kneewall install areas) and I'm fine with them cutting through the floor as needed to run the rear ducts for downstairs.

I've gotten several estimates for 3 ton 15-16seer systems so far and the middle of the curve has ranged from $11k for a Goodman AC/Variable speed air handler to $13.5k for a SpacePak system and topping out close to $15k for a Carrier AC setup. HeatPump models are being quoted up to $2k+ over basic AC pricing (all prices are before applying current incentives and/or rebates).

Looking around it seems that people are getting similar setups along with addons (electronic air cleaners, humidifiers, etc.) and a new furnace for less than I'm being quoted for basic AC alone...am I crazy for thinking these prices are way too high? Anyone in the industry have insight as to what manufacturers offer equipment to installers for and/or what a typical markup might be? Any ideas on what a true fair price might be for something like this?

I'm all for these guys making a fair profit and am willing to pay for their expertise to do the install correctly but given the experience of others and current economic standing this is not exactly what I expected. Thanks in advance all for any info!

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Comments (5)

udarrell_2007
15 years ago
Shop around.
I did everything to the benefit of the customer.

However, I did not make enough profit.

In Northern New Jersey you have around 800 hours of A/C runtime a season. I probably wouldn't go above a 14-SEER A/C; depends on whether you get enough money on a 16-SEER to get a decent pay-back.

At 1500-sf they should be able to reduce the heat-gain so a 2.5 or even 2-Ton system would handle the cooling load.

These are simply postulations from a retired contractor tech from the 1970's. Get a lot of local opinions!

Here is a link that might be useful: Ductwork & Airflow are Key for Efficiency
kevalent
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for the input udarrell!

The main reason we're looking at the 15+ SEER units is to take advantage of the current tax incentives...should be able to get a more efficient unit for the same or less cost than a less efficient one (hopefully). As for heat gain we've replaced all the windows over the past couple years and are going to add all new insulation on the 2nd floor which should help out quite a bit with keeping the temps even (the 50 year old rock-wool is probably only worth at most r-8 at this point, haha). We're in the process of getting as many quotes as possible right now, hopefully one will end up a winner (both contractor and quote).
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I think the rheem quote looks good. If its 8-grand less thats a major reason to go with that quote. 95% efficient 2 stage furnaces are plenty comfortable and efficient. A good thermostat will make it run in the low-stage most of the time. True modulating or 3 stage furnaces are more comfy but maybe its overkill. Just make sure your not oversized. Remember 95% efficient furnaces put out 15% more heat than the same size 80% efficient furnace. FYI - those rheem A/C's in the quote are plenty efficient also and RHEEM makes good quality stuff I think.
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I'd have a Home Energy Efficiency Audit performed & do whatever is cost effective to bring the heat-loss/heat-gain down so 4-Ton or say 46,000-Btuh will handle the heatload with ease. That is one size down to a 14AJM49 with a RHKL-HM4821 air handler with a ECM motor, it gets 16-SEER. It is nearly always very difficult to achieve enough air flow for 5-ton of cooling. However, that Rheem 14AJM56 is actually 4.5-Ton @ 54,000-Btuh & 1600 to 1700-CFM would work okay if you match it with the RHKL-HM6024 air handler with the ECM motor, it gets 16-SEER. ARI#3799470 For 2-story home you probably should have a zoned system. Phil, PA 2.5% summer design is 90-F dry bulb & 74-F wet bulb around 47.7% relative humidity. That is 103 gr moisture per lb dry air; while indoors at 75-db & 62.5-wb is only 66 gr moisture per lb air. Infiltration would add considerable latent load; therefore you need long runtimes to keep humidity near 50%. Here is a link that might be useful: Sizing Air Conditioning Systems & Ductwork Airflow
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I also live in NJ and I am familiar how the Clean Energy program works. I have to be honest I don't care for it. The contractors quote a high price and then the state comes in with a rebate to bring it back down. The result is you are usually paying an inflated price. The hook is you have to replace your water heater and add insulation at some very high price. So the quote is $17,662 minus the $4000 rebate for a net of $13,662. For this you are getting a 2-stage Infinity furnace and a single stage AC, with a water heater and blown in insulation. If $2000 goes towards the insulation leaving $11,662 for the equipment and installation. If it were a 2-stage AC I would say you are at the high end of the price range, for a single stage it is over priced in my opinion. You can try what Tigerdunes has suggested, but I am confident the dealer will not go along with it. Do you need a new hot water heater? Paying $2800 for a hot water heater is absurd. Realize that this will be a vented model which will not operate during a power outage. With the low price of gas even they are estimating a 40 year pay back. You will be lucky if the hot water heater lasts 20 years. I think you can do much better with pricing. Get a quote from a Carrier dealer who doesn't participate in the program. If you need a hot water heater you can buy a basic tank in Home Depot for less than $500 plus installation. If you have R30 insulation in the attic, then adding more is probably not going to have a big impact (look at the payback years). Attic sealing is good DIY project. Put the money toward an attic hatch or make one yourself. Finally not sure about the $4000 in labor. Installers will rarely quote labor charges, or even breakdown the price by item.
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fastacservice
15 years ago
Ive installedcomfort systems for home owners doing the same thing your doing. When selling its hard to predict the complete cost with a custom installation like that. Some company and myself mark-up the price to save our bottom line. Keep on shopping, but something as custom of what your doing isn't cheap.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fast Ac Service
PRO
CJ Mechanical of North jersey llc.
15 years ago
You should try calling CJ Mechanical of north jersey out of parsippany, morris county.
They will perform a full load calculation and give you fair prices,and plenty of Refreances.
mr_havac
15 years ago
fastacservice, better read the rules of the forum. They pick up on you trying to scrounge up business by posting your company name and info here and fast will also be the speed you get tossed outta here.

hvac pricing help in northern nj?

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udarrell_2007

kevalent
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hvac pricing help in northern nj?

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udarrell_2007

kevalentOriginal Author

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CJ Mechanical of North jersey llc.

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