kiropod

when you say you have two zone gas heating and AC, what exactly does that mean? two systems or one system with zoning controls?

what size living area will new system serve?

what size furnace and AC are you replacing?

The Carrier is the nicer of the two systems without a doubt. The Rheem dealer has not quoted the correct thermostat. Also, I assume you have noted the equipment size differences between the two quotes.

post back.

IMO

thanks for your kind reply. We have two separate furnaces and ac units with separate thermostats. Living area is approximately 3000 sq feet, with basement.

kiropad

3000 sq ft for this particular system/zone?

what size AC and furnace are you replacing?

post back.

IMO

To be perfectly honest, I do not know the size of the current system. Not withstanding that, my question is, is the carrier system overkill?

kiropod

you should make effort to find out size of existing HVAC you plan to replace.

what is the price difference between the two systems.

good sizing and comfort will lead to overall satisfaction that lasts longer than price.

I will need to look up specs on the Rheem furnace.

IMO

I will check out the current HVAC and get back to you. Is there some sort of ID on the furnace which describes its size? The price difference is approximately $8,000

Hi Kiropod,

Really I don't if there is $8k worth of difference between one system or another. All online reviews or comparisons post disclaimers to this fact, relating to the continual evolution of furnace and air conditioning systems.

All reviews suggest that a consumer take 3 or 4 estimates and then compare the offerings.

The main criterion is a proper ACCA Manual J8 Heat Gain Loss report be done on you home. This is the only accurate way to determine proper sizing of the system, your comfort and a chance of getting the anticipated savings with a high end system. Also, while they are doing this report, they should be able to do a utility analysis to determine the best type of system to install i.e. Gas/AC, Gas/Hybrid, Gas or Electric/Geothermal.

The next thing you want to look for is a great warranty...
HVAC systems, like your car, are mechanical devices and are subject to many variables and applications. A great warranty is cheaper than a service call and will usually be for 10 years, parts and labor. Peace of mind...Priceless!

The next item to consider is the birthday of your new system, the first day of operation is critical to a lifetime of worry free comfort and operation. You should have a conversation about how the system installation will be checked, tested and started, and how this will be documented. These procedures are in the back of the installation manual for the product you select, and the installing company should have a detailed form to validate their start up procedures.

These criteria should guide you to a satisfactory relationship with your chosen contractor. Following these criteria you won't need much luck having a successful job, but I'll wish you some anyway since it's St. Patrick�s Day tomorrow.

How can one obtain an ACCA evaluation? Both companies that have quoted me to date offer 10 year parts warranties, 1 year labor. In regards to the current furnaces, one appears to be 110,000 BTU and the other is 82,000.

Why do you need two humidifiers? This seems overkill. Do you need two electronic air cleaners? A pair of 4 inch media filters is adequate.

The Carrier Infinity system is nice. I have a pair of these for my house in central NJ.

It sounds like the Carrier dealer is very over priced. Is he offering the Carrier rebate? I would recommend adding the 10 year labor warranty.

Didn't see a response to Tiger's ? re: 3000 SF Total house, or served by one furnace.

Seems like a lot of BTUs. I'm in S. Jersey also, with a 22 year old house of 2500 SF living space. Needs less than 60,000 BTUs total.

I'm into my third heating season with a Rheem Modulating furnace. It provides 13 stages of heat and is extremely comfortable (no ups and downs of temperature).

V

Two humidifiers as we have two furnaces. 3000 sq feet plus basement. The price for the carrier system includes the current carrier rebate as well as the $4000 rebate from the state. I'm going to get another 1 or 2 carrier quotes. We will be adding additional insulation throughout the house. Don't forget, both these quotes include the Navien tankless water heaters, which cost close to $4000

I just checked the current furnaces. One is listed at 110,000 BTU and the other, 85,000

During the coldest weather we had, did your furnaces run (close to) full time?

V

kiropad

just to be clear, you are replacing one furnace/AC system. correct? what size is the furnace you are replacing? what size is the living area that this furnace serves(not the complete house)?

you are adding one humidifier to the other furnace system? Carrier quote shows two humidifiers, Rheem quote one. ???

The Carrier quote is over the top. Either they are providing more scope of work and/or are taking advantage of you.

The Rheem furnace is a two stg 95% var speed model. Nice system. It requires a two stg thermostat which dealer is not providing. They should include it. Plus the AC should be the JEZ version of the RAPM condenser model.

sizing needs to be verified as the Carrier Infinity is 80 KBTU model and the Rheem furnace is 60 KBTU. Then again Carrier dealer is quoting 3 ton AC, Rheem dealer 2 1/2 ton. This difference matters.

For your location/climate, I would get a price on the York/Luxaire modulating furnace.

IMO

I am not going to comment on cooling and heating the living space. If you want to heat water economically, you will lose the tankless water heaters. If you are an average hot water user, it will take 20 years to get back the extra cost of the equipment. They require higher care, especially with hard water.

Buy a premium gas-fired hot water tank and put a wrap on it.

I am in central NJ and my house is 3200 sq. ft. and is 27 years old. I have two furnaces. They are Carrier Infinity 58MVC60 (60,000 BTU). The condenser are also Infinity 28ANA7 (3 ton upstairs, 2 ton downstairs).

Base on the Manual J done on my house I am confident the Carrier configuration you have is oversized. You should have a calculation done to confirm this.

If you want a lot of hot water, then I suggest a Rheem Fury in a 60 gallon size. It will be about one fifth the price of the tankless system.

I also think two humidifiers is overkill. The best fix is to seal your leaky windows. If you do get a humidifer, then I would attach it to the upstairs furnace. The humidity will balance itself throughout the house.

Sorry for the confusion in my post. We have two furnaces and two central air conditioners. I know that I forgot to post the second Rheem humidifier.

Both carrier furnaces would be75,000 BTU, whereas the Rheem quotes are for a 90,000 and the second is 60,000.

How do I get the house evaluated by an independent party to determine proper size of the HVAC Thanks for all of your help.

You should continue to look for an HVAC contractor who will do a Manual J calculation as part of his quote. The ideal contractor will do a calulation and show it to up before you make a committment. Others will do it after you sign a contract.

You can also do this yourself using HVAC-Calc. I have not used it myself, but I have read postings by homeowners stating the results were very close to Manual J calculations provided by contractors.

Here is a link that might be useful: HVAC-Calc

Thank you!

I think the rheem quote looks good. If its 8-grand less thats a major reason to go with that quote.
95% efficient 2 stage furnaces are plenty comfortable and efficient. A good thermostat will make it run in the low-stage most of the time. True modulating or 3 stage furnaces are more comfy but maybe its overkill.

Just make sure your not oversized. Remember 95% efficient furnaces put out 15% more heat than the same size 80% efficient furnace.

FYI - those rheem A/C's in the quote are plenty efficient also and RHEEM makes good quality stuff I think.

Thanks for your help once again.

I just received an updated quote from the Rheem company. Per the advice of this forum, they would install a new Rheem 75 gallon water heater, model 42VP75FW, for $2695. That is approximately $1000 less than the tankless? Would I save $1000 over the next 20 years with the tankless system

So your paying $2700 for a standard gas water heater installed? I'm not familiar with that model but that seems pricey. Regular hot water tanks aren't that big of a deal to install. What are they charging for the updated hvac quote? Its possible they may be giving you a decent HVAC quote and chargin as much as possible on the hot water tank install.

They would be removing 2 water heater and installing the new, larger, hopefully more efficiant one. I was able to locate the water heater at an online plumbing store for $1800, plus shipping.

I just met with my third HVAC company. This one installs both Carrier and Goodman. He put together a quote using the Goodman products including the GMVC95 furnace. Does Goodman have a good reputation (no pun intended)? He did advise me that the carrier system will be $3000 more per unit, thus $6000 more for me. They offer a 10 yeaer parts and labor warranty.

"Would I save $1000 over the next 20 years with the tankless system?"

You have to do arithmetic. Google "DOE", "water heater", "calculator"

Still looking for advise on the Goodman product line. Dependible? Reliable?