Quote on Lennox-Please Help with decisions

15 years ago

My DH and I are building our home and have just recently been getting quotes on the Heat/AC system. We are in South Carolina and the quotes are ranging from 10,000 up to 16,900. I have read much on this forum and I am hoping that someone can help us with our decision. We have only had 1 company come in and did a detailed analysis of our house. Our home is 2 story, with an unfinished basement. We have 1700 sq. ft on the main level, and 864 on the 2nd level. They propose the following:

Main level

Lennox XP14-042 Heat Pump

Lennox Airhandler with 10/KW Heater

Upstairs

Lennox XP14-024 Heat Pump

Lennox AirHandler w/8 KW Heater

Split System: Heat Pump w/remote outdoor Unit Air Source

Outdoor unit Model # CBX27UH-0024-230 + TDR

Indoor Unit Model Number CBX27UH-024-230 + TDR

Cooling Capacity 24200

EER Rating (Cooling) 13.00

SEER Rating (Cooing) 15.00

Heating Capacity (Btuh) @47F; 2300

Region IV HSPF Rating (Heating) 9.00

Heating Capacity (Btuh) @ 17 F: 1440

1 Year Warranty on all parts and labor

10 year limited warranty on compressor from mfg.

1 year service maintenance agreement.

The quote for this is $16,943.00. Is that a good quote? Would we qualify for the Lennox Rebate of $1500 that I am seeing advertised and how long is that rebate offer good for?

I don't have the specifics on the other quotes, but the quote for $10,000 was for 2 TempStar units. He did not do a detailed analysis.

A 3rd company gave us a quote for 15,000 and recommended the WhirlPool Gold??? I will try to get more detail on these.

My fear is that my DH has so much on him right now that he will just take the lowest quote because the man has been in the community for a long time and we know people that he has "serviced'. We don't however know anyone that he has installed a new construction job on.

Can anyone help me gain enough knowledge that we can make the best decision?

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Comments (6)

troys
15 years ago
Are they installing duct work within this estimate?
sc_kathyc
Original Author
15 years ago
Yes, this includes all duct work and installtion for new construction. We did find out from them today that we would only qualify for approximately $360 in rebate. Apparently the unit they quoted is not the TOP of the line that gets the full $1500 rebate.
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A nice system and reasonably detailed proposal. The XP17 is a very quiet system and does have electronic demand defrost, which will greatly limit the amount of defrost cycles (better for equipment, efficiency, and comfort). For the most part your proposal seems fairly standard to me (both work scope and price wise). I am in your area as well (Montgomery County). I suggest you call the following company as well for a proposal (link below) -- do yourself a favor and set up an appointment with Chris. They do good work (and no I am not employed by them :-) ). I would get a proposal for an XR15 or XL15i with matching TAM7 variable speed air handler. While I do like Lennox equipment, I am not keen on the fact that their coils are still copper/aluminum as opposed to all-aluminum and certainly hope this changes soon as most manufacturers have begun doing so (Trane and Goodman to name a couple). Copper/aluminum coils have historically had leaking issues (as you've seen in your own system) due to pitting corrosion on the copper as well as galvanic corrosion between the Cu/Al. Aluminum coils are immune to the issue (not to say they cannot leak). With that said, Lennox still makes solid equipment, and your primary focus should always be finding the best company to do the work. Most all brands offer a 10 year factory parts warranty now. Any problematic areas upstairs to heat/cool that may be due to ductwork issues (that can be addressed at the time of replacement)? The variable speed air handler will help move the air better, but proper duct design still matters. Its size, insulation value, layout, etc. all matter very much to the overall performance/efficiency of the system. Many home systems are lacking in this area. Attic in the ductwork especially needs to be sealed/insulated well. Here is a link that might be useful: HVAC Installation This post was edited by ryanhughes on Mon, Feb 3, 14 at 19:45
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Not sure how the Carrier dealer plans to hook up the Infinity control to an older, non-Infinity furnace, unless there's something I'm unaware of. The Lennox quotes are fairly high considering a straightforward a/c and evap. coil changeout. If you can get proposal 3 at the lower price then it's a great system at a great price. Remember, you GET what you PAY for. So, if he's cutting his costs down by that much, what corners is he going to cut to make-up for it, if any? This is where trust comes into play; looks like this dealer was professional and looking out for your needs though. If money is an issue now and may be down the road, you may want to take advantage of the tax credit now and good system opportunity, if you feel comfortable with this dealer. The 14ACX is a baseline model. If you register these Lennox components online after purchase you should get a 10-year warranty. Funny what magic words can do. If you ever get a Trane quote, tell the dealer you're also looking at a Carrier, and your price may suddenly drop. :) Do NOT be afraid to get another quote or two.
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bajau according to the AHRI HP Directory,Lennox does not have a 2 1/2 ton XP14 or XP15 paired with a VS air handler that qualifies for the tax credit. The Lennox XP14 system listed in your post is paired with a VS air handler and does qualify for the tax credit but this is a three ton system. Obviously a big hole in Lennox product line. In your 10:42 AM post about the Trane and AmStd 2 1/2 ton systems;the XL15i and Heritage 15 are for all practical purposes identical HP condensers with the exception of Trane's funky covered top on the XLi series. However, the Trane XR14c is a very nice system. The major difference between the XL15i and XR14c is of course the condenser with the XL15i having the funny top, a little quieter, better performance numbers in heating, and a 12 yr warranty on the compressor. see below. Results Metric Display Name XL15i XR14 SEER (Cooling Efficiency) up to 16.00 up to 15.00 HSPF (Heating Efficiency) up to 9.0 up to 9.0 Energy Star Yes No Nominal Sound Level 74 76 Two-Stage Operation Single Stage Single Stage Registered* Limited Warranty 12-Year Compressor, 10-Year coil, 10-Year functional parts 10-Year Compressor, Coil, and functional parts Warranty (Extended) Optional Available Optional Available if you could get either the Trane XL15i or Heritage 15 for $6500 or less plus the tax credit, then that would be my choice. They will simply hold up better and have a longer operating life than Lennox. IMO
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Ryan, Thanks for your response. I have not had a load determination performed and am using the"same as before" approach and relying on the Lennox proposal for sizing. The evaporator coil is a Lennox 3 ton CH33-36B-2F. The Lennox proposal was originally for a 2.5 ton AC unit but they upgraded to a 3 ton when I upgraded the furnace to the variable speed G61V. I was told the AC upgrade was necessary. The proposal did not address the thermostat, preumably they were considering using the existing thermostat. I will take a look at the Honeywell unit. The installation is all in the crawslspace and is pretty straightforward. They did commit to "sealing all connections 100%, and there are a lot of leaks as it is cooler in the crawspace than in the house! They are having to vent the furnace gases through the crawlspace wall with PVC pipe as the flue liner in the chimney has cracks. They are removing all of the old AC and furnace equipment. The ductwork change is at my request as an existing return is directly behind all of my stereo and TV components and the return pulls dog hair and dust all over the components. I am hoping the change to a supply will keep the area cleaner and the components cooler. I have a Carrier delaer coming out tommorrow to assess the situation and issue a proposal. Thanks again
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ryanhughes
15 years ago
My gut instinct tells me they're oversizing at least the main floor system by about a ton. This would cause dehumidification, performance, reliability, and efficiency issues down the road, so you want to get the detailed load calculation in writing. You say they did one, but I would like to see it in writing. These are good systems you're looking at and if sized properly should do fine. Only thing I recommend is changing the air handler to the variable speed model, CBX32MV. With this you can also use a thermostat that controls humidity by adjusting fan speed with A/C.
donniehvac
15 years ago
I agree that the main level seems oversized at least by 1/2 ton maybe a full ton. Also, with a variable speed air handler that Lennox offers, you should be able to meet the tax credit eligibility. It'll cost a bit more, but well worth the look into it.
jtinsc
15 years ago
I do not think HVAC is elegible for the tax credit, except geothermal for new construction. See link:

Here is a link that might be useful: Energy Star web sight
dbutler
15 years ago
Nearly all mechanical contractors oversize, even those who do load calcs. Not surprisingly, both systems appear to be significiantly oversized, but it depends on many factors so you can't go by generic comments like the ones provided above.

I think the CBX27 is a good choice for the air handler. It has the same high-efficiency motor as the variable speed CBX32MV, but without the expensive variable speed logic. Variable speed can provide additional benefits in terms of humidity control, but it is no more efficient than the CBX27. If your system is sized correctly, you won't need to worry about excess humidity.

Also, don't let any contractor talk you into a gas furnace or a dual fuel system. Gas costs about twice as much as a heat pump in your climate, and dual fuel, though more efficient than electric aux heat, is never cost-effective in moderate climates.

You may want to read a paper I presented at a recent conference on these topics (see link below).

Here is a link that might be useful: Elephant in the Room

Quote on Lennox-Please Help with decisions

Comments (6)

troys

sc_kathyc
Original Author

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Quote on Lennox-Please Help with decisions

Comments (6)

troys

sc_kathycOriginal Author

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donniehvac

jtinsc

dbutler

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sc_kathyc
Original Author