wolf

a couple of questions.

tell us about the layout of your home.

what size and eff furnaces and ACs are you replacing?

where will new furnaces be located?

what is your electric rate/kwh? your nat gas rate/therm?

what are the evap coil mdl numbers quoted?

what mdl hybrid controller?

all of the quoted equipment is top of line.

post back.

IMO

I think dual fuel is the way to go. GIves you the best of both worlds for comfort and cost. Dual fuel systems don't cost must more than straight gas and a/c system. Its important not to oversize. Make sure your sized correctly. Since your equipment is multistages it will run most of time in low stage which provides good comfort and efficiency.

blanket endorsement of HPs without knowing all the facts is questionable advice.

I like HPs as well-for the right application. HPs are not for everyone or every application. There are many factors to consider for HPs and those include location/winter climate, comfort, home's envelope/insulation properties, and electric rate vs other alternative heating fuels.

I would hope we can get some answers from the OP to my questions to give him solid advice based on facts.

IMO

It sounds like the original poster of this message is going with dual-fuel. Which is a heatpump with gas furnace. I think you can't go wrong with this type of system in most situations. Only time this situation wouldn't be good is if you have extremly expensive electricity (so no heatpump) or a really mild climate (so no gas).

Heatpumps are most efficient and comfortable in milder cold temperatures, while the natural gas is great for the hard coldest weather that michigan can have. If i"m not mistaken the electric rates are pretty good in Michigan.

What is the rate of electricity per KW that the poster is paying? I think Detroit area even offers off-peak discounts still.

The price quoted isn't cheap, but its not terribly high either considering it is 2 systems nice equipment.

Make sure your hybrid controller has an outside temperature sensor that interfaces with the t-stat.

wolf

one more thought.

post the complete mdl number of the Trane furnace quoted.

I will assume 80K is correct size.

you want the recently introduced 80K version of the XV95 with the 4 ton rated blower. This was a gaping hole in Trane's product line. I want to see that dealer has not made an oversight on this important issue.

IMO

All, sorry for the delay. I assumed I would get email pings when posts were made so was not checking this daily.
1. Home is a 2 story clonial, approx 2,500 sq ft per floor, well insulated, although I need to add more insulation to the attic.
2. System 1 is a 2 year old Carrier 3.5 ton unit matched with a 20 year old 3.5 ton A/c. evap coil is bad so I am told. Installer is offering me $1k for the carrier system. System 2 is 20 year old system that is dead. it is also a 3.5 ton system with a 5 ton a/c for some reason.
3.Furnaces are located in the basement, side by side. A/C's are located on the East side of the house. House faces North with walkout to the South.
4. I do not know the rates off the top of my head for electric or gas. Gas is a lot cheaper than electricity from what I gather here. Consumers Energy is our Gas providor and DTE Energy does the Electric.
5. I do not know exact model numbers. The Furnaces are Trane XV95 (95%AFUE/80kbtuh) models. The Heat Pumps are Trane 16i (16 SEER/4 ton/2011 model).

Southeastern Michigan is relatively mild over all temperature-wise. There are a bunch of sever days hot and cold, but nothing that is a major problem like would be in Upper Michigan or any other Northern state. Detroit/Chicago/Pittsburgh type weather.

I hope this helps.
Seems like this is a nice system.
I'm glad to see some comments.
Any more advice is much appreciated.

It sounds like your sized pretty well.

those trane heatpumps could be the 2-speed compressor models. If they are thats probably overkill. 2-speed compressor's are best for very humid, cooling oriented climates where you want to run a long time on low stage to dehumidify very well. I would go with the highest efficiency single stage heatpumps. I would ask the installer to setup the thermostats to run the heatpumps down to 35. When between 20-35 have low stage of furnace, and below 20 high stage of furnace. I would have low stage of furnace engage when heatpumps go into defrost. Ofcourse this could be changed from the t-stat based on energy costs.

He should be able to save you some money with the single stage heatpumps also. Ask him if he could do the same install with comparable american standard equipment for less. American std. is pretty much the same equipment (made by same company) with a different name tag and usually costing less.

neohioheatpump,
Thanks for the fast reply.
How would the Trane HP option compare to a Lennox system below?
Lennow Signature SLP98UH110V60C (95%AFUE/Variable with ECM)
Lennox Elite Collection Air Conditioner XC-14-048-230 (15SEER/R410A refigerant)
I have this quoted with the touchscreen thermostats and incidentals for $17k.

On the Trane units, I am ok with the 2 stage if we go with this vendor. he seems really knowledgeable and did comment heavily on getting them running in low stage.
I guess overall, I'd rather go with the most energy efficient units even costing more as they will save me $$$ over time.
I've also got Geothermal quoted at $34k, but am talking myself out of it due to landscape cost. The HP vendor is also the Geothermal vendor and he thinks I will not save enough in energy savings over time between the HP and The Geo to rationalize the install of Geo.

Last question, is there a major reason I should go with a 2010 Trane 16i HP over the 2011 model? There is a $1,600 difference between them.

the trane quote is much better in my opinion. Some people on this forum aren't lennox fans. Trane makes great stuff.
If you got geo-thermal, you probably wouldn't have gas backup. The nice thing about dual-fuel is you can take advantage of cheap natural gas (when it is cheap) but you can also get farely priced and comfy heatpump when its milder out. Suppose natural would get more expensive then you would just run the heatpump down to a lower temperature.

True, geothermal gives you more heat when it gets colder out that an airsource heatpump can't do but the natural gas is ideal when its really cold.

I'm not familiar with the 2010 compared to 2011 model. I would go with least expensive of the 2.

wolf

there is a big difference in these quotes.

on the furnace, two stg vs modulating.

on condensers, AC vs HPs, sgl stg vs two stg.

I still would like my questions answered if you want a more informed opinion.

what size and eff furnaces and ACs are you replacing?

what is your electric rate/kwh? your nat gas rate/therm?

what are the evap coil mdl numbers quoted?

what mdl hybrid controller?

post the complete mdl number of the Trane furnace quoted.

IMO