Shoulda went with the Lennox before now your option is base Goodman for more money than the topend Lennox but that was then.
You need to ask yourself what is most important to you if you are going to stay in this house for awhile you need to buy the most efficient system you can afford and you will appreciate the wisdom fo that decision each time you open your utility bill

sss.

I don't care for Goodman HVAC-sorry, my prejudice.

For your area, I would definitely look at dual fuel-high eff furnace paired with high eff heat pump. My second choice would be a Rheem Modulating furnace.

Going down your list of questions.

1.Here are the minimum performance metrics for a HP
15SEER,12+EER,9HSPF

2.Install a complete system with all aux equipment now rather than in stages

3.An 80%AFUE eff furnace is absurd for your area/climate-go with a 93+ AFUE eff furnace 2 stg var speed model with high eff heat pump

4.Var speed systems can marginally improve air flow issues but can not overcome poor ductwork sizing/design problems. Ask dealer to look at room and any other hot/cold spots and make recommendations for improvement

5.The Man J heat/cool load calculation is the professional method of sizing new HVAC. Request this in writing. It normally takes several hours to correctly perform this calc.

I am not going to comment on pricing at this moment. I suggest you read the link from another HVAC forum from a homeowner who lives outside Omaha. This homeowner just installed a new high eff dual fuel system. Perhaps you can contact them about the dealer they used, pricing, and other questions you might have.

My opinion.

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to HVAC Talk Thread

Electricity is fairly cheap here, and based on my calculations, it doesn't make sense to go higher than 13 SEER for the cost. It would take 10 years to recoup. Is there any advantage of going 15 SEER other than cost savings?

tigerdunes, thanks for the link. I'll look into it.

Btw, the Lennox quote was for just the furnace. No Heat Pump.

What are the exact model numbers of the heat pump, air handler, and furnace for the Goodman/Everrest?

Is the furnace propane or natural gas?

"Is there any advantage of going 15 SEER other than cost savings?"

- Yes. Sometimes mfrs upgrade equipment going from 13 SEER (basic builders grade) to 14 and 15 SEER. Goodman does this. The 14 SEER heat pump has a Copeland scroll compressor (industry preferred) while the 13 SEER has a reciprocating compressor. I went with the 14 SEER Goodman for this very reason. Also, sometimes a 14 SEER will get better btu ratings (example: a full 36,000 btu cooling for 3 tons instead of 34,000 btus). Once you get into 16 SEER, you get two-stage compressors (19 SEER has dual compressors) for a heck of a lot more $$ than a traditional single speed compressor.

Best to you.

I'm waiting on the model numbers. The EverRest Heat Pump is a 4-ton 13 SEER. That's all the information I have so far. The EverRest Furnace is a 2-stage 80% AFUE I think it's GMS8090 or something like that. I'll have to make sure and ask again. Furnace is Natural Gas.

I'm going to see if i can get a couple of more bids to compare. The Rheem guy never called me back today.

If you are using the heat pump as your primary source of heat, a 95% efficient gas back-up is probably over-kill, an 80% AFUE should suffice.

You should indeed get at least 3 quotes. Make sure all the quotes have model numbers included, and any work to be done is spelled out on the quote.

In my opinion, a 14 SEER / 12 EER / 9 HSPF heat pump offers the best combination of purchase price and true operating costs.

The quality of the installation is more important than the brand name.

Best to you.

sss,

Normally I agree with my forum friend Gary but I have to disagree on the 80% AFUE eff furnace. These models are fast becoming a dinosaur for all but mild winter climates,even when paired with a heat pump.I know your area's climate in the winter and it can be rather extreme. Nat gas costs will not get cheaper. And the price difference between the 80% two stg var spd models and the 93+ two stg var speed mdls has actually narrowed. Stay with the high eff furnace paired with high eff heat pump. I hope you will be able to hook up with your Omaha neighbor about his new system. You will need to leave your email address in your profile for the contact to take place.

IMO

What are the Omaha Nebraska winters like?

What is the cost difference between an 80% AFUE and 95% AFUE? The 95% will require different routing of the exhaust gas pipe than an 80%.

Good luck.

I just got a quote from a Trane contractor today.

The difference between the 80% and 95% is $1826. So, to me that's quite a difference. I know our winters are cold, but I'm not sure if I want to spend that much, if I'm not staying at this house in another 10 years.

I was impressed with the contractor today. He actually pulled out a volumeter (sp?) and measured all the registers. That's more than any other bids I've gotten. He gave me a quote right away, and he said if I think the price is in the ballpark, he will do a Manual J Load Calc, and fine tune the system. I like the Trane brand for Heat Pump as well, so I'm seriously considering this contractor. Trane makes a lot of the parts themselves. Any comments on the Trane Furnace? I haven't hear much about those? I'll have to look them up. The difference between the 13 SEER and 14 SEER is a little less than $700. So, I'm not sure on that either. It would take about 10 years to recoup that. Plus, the 13 SEER model actually is up to 13.5 with HSPF of up to 8.4. So, it's not too bad. I don't know still contemplating whether I should spend the extra dollars. I've been known to not stay at one place for more than 5 years. :)

Thanks for all the great advice. I'm seriously looking at both 80% and 95% AFUE 2-stage variable speed furnace. 13 or 14 SEER HP.

What are the model numbers of all units? Trane tends to be low on SEER/HSPF/heating and cooling BTU's on their heat pumps, but I can tell you what you'll actually be getting with the model numbers. Don't be fooled by the words "up to"--for any system. I like Trane myself, but I know their heat pumps struggle with BTU's and efficiency IN SOME CASES. For example, a "14 SEER" unit may be getting around 13 with a standard blower.

Trane Furnace 100K BTU Model #:
80% Var TUD100R9V5K
95% Var TUH2C100A9V4VA

Trane Heat Pump 4-Ton Model #:
13-SEER 4TWR3048A1000A
14-SEER R-22 2TWR4048B1000A

13-SEER with R-22 2TWR3048B1000A

Also, looking at Goodman:

GMV950905DXA 95% 2-Stage Variable Speed
SSZ160481A 16 SEER 4-Ton Heat Pump R-410A refrigerant
CAPF4860D6 Cased Indoor Coil
GMU1625 Air Cleaner
1F95-1271 White Rodgers Digital Programmable Thermostat

It's about the same price as the Trane bid with the 80% 2-Stage Variable Speed with the 13 SEER Heat Pump. The contractor told me it's special pricing, since he's a friend of my friend. He's willing to do a Load calc to air balance, and put in some dampers in the ducts as well.

So, now it's between the Trane or the Goodman.

I thought I posted some rating information for the Trane 80% furnace and 13 SEER R410a heat pump earlier...

Anyway, that match up gets relatively poor/basic performance, with 13 SEER, less than 10 EER, and I believe less than 8.50 HSPF. I think Goodman usually has pretty good ARI ratings, but once the ARI directory starts working again I can look it up. (http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahriDirectory/pages/hp/defaultSearch.aspx)

Do you mind posting the prices for the systems (approximate prices) for comparison?

Actually, since Goodman makes the rating information public, here are the ratings the Goodman setup would get:

SEER: 16.00
EER: 13.00
HSPF: 9.50
Cooling BTU/H: 46,000
Heating BTU/H: 46,000
ARI Ref. #1047243

Excellent ratings. Ratings assume a TXV, though.

I made a mistake in my second most recent posting. The EER for the Trane 13 SEER + 80% setup should be less than 11 EER. Still, you'll save much more with the Goodman according to the ratings. I think Trane products are far superior to Goodman's, though, in terms of proven durability.

ryanhughes,

The Trane setup with 80% 2-stage Var and 13 SEER, plus indoor cased coil, new thermostat, equipment pad, 4" media filter and labor comes out to $6077.

The Goodman setup with 95% 2-stage Var and 16 SEER, plus Cased Indoor coil, new thermostat, equipment pad, 16x25 MERV 11 Air filter and labor comes out to $6098. (Special friend discount)

The EverRest setup, which I am not considering anymore. 80% 2-stage no variable speed and 13 SEER, plus coil, thermostat, CAP-100 filter and labor is $6957.

TRANE vs Goodman. Trane probably has a better reputation, but in my scenario I may go with the higher efficient Goodman. I'm not 100% sure yet, but definitely getting there.

I'd recommend a 2-stage thermostat to control either setup.

Do you know what coil would be matched with the Trane setup? Depending on the coil setup, numbers range from:

SEER: 13.00-13.25
EER: 10.70-11.20
HSPF: 8.40-8.50
Cooling BTU/H: 47,500-49,000
Heating: BTU/H: 44,000-46,500

The Goodman gives you more efficiency and comfort for slightly more.

Trane Coil Model #:
2TXCC049BC3HCA

Yes, definitely a 2-stage thermostat. The Goodman guy recommended the White Rodgers or Honeywell.

I was looking at these that the Goodman guy mentioned in order of price:
Honeywell TH8320U1008 VisionPro8000
White-Rodgers 1F95-1271
Honeywell TH6220D1002 FocusPro 6000

Since I assume you'll go with the 4TWR3048 R410a heat pump, you'll need a R410a coil from Trane. Hopefully the Trane guy gave you a model number for this coil. That coil listed above is only an ARI-rated match with the 14 SEER R-22 heat pump, with the following ratings:

SEER: 13.75
EER: 11.60
HSPF: 8.80
Cooling BTU/H: 48,000
Heating BTU/H: 43,000

By the way, to go to a Trane 95% AFUE 2-stage, variable speed with the same 13-SEER Heat Pump, I would be looking at $7903.

95% Var Model # TUH2C100A9V4VA

So, if I compare the Goodman 95% and 16-SEER HP vs Trane 95% and 13-SEER, the Goodman price still sounds like a better deal. $1805 cheaper, and with 16 SEER R-410a instead of 13 -SEER R-22.

Yes, the price includes TXV for the Goodman, and not the Trane. Goodman Model # TX5N4

The $6077 quote is for the 13-SEER R-22 Model with that Coil.

For the 14-SEER R410a plus Coil, price is $6388. Coil for that is Model # 4TXCC049BC3HCA

^^^^ Sorry post above should say 13 SEER R410a not 14-SEER. 14-SEER R410a would be even more expensive. $7211 for 80% 2-stage, variable speed, 14-SEER R410a with coil model # above starting 4T.