No problen at all liketolearn. You better hurry up and do it though before that #2 starts gelling up in your filter if you have low temps outside. Once you get a regular fill up on monday though I would seriously consider replacing the filter. As we speak you're pulling up all kinds of crud from the bottom of that oil tank.

Thanks mr.havac! Did a quick check yesterday for an answer before leaving for work and felt much better after getting your response. I thought it would not be a problem but was glad for the reassurance from someone who knows best. DH added 25 gallons of kerosene and we're warm and comfy. Again thanks for taking the time to respond!

Is that one of those old carburated oil furnaces? Dont see those too often nowadays.

The Miller is most likely to be a gun burner. Miller made really good stuff. One model of Intertherm today is an easy replacement for the Miller. A vaporizing (carburetor) burner will not work well at all with #2 fuel. The Miller probably uses a .5 gallon per hour nozzle, which is very prone to clogging. I suggest using two fuel filter units in series- no unit was ever damaged by fuel that is too clean. Always fill when the fuel tank still has 100 gallons in it to minimize the disturbing of the crud in the bottom of the tank. Some service people will substitute a .6 nozzle for the .5 as the .6 clogs less often. BIG mistake as the extra heat will ruin the heat exchanger over time. Using #1 all the time in these furnaces is a really good idea, but increases the heating cost. In my area, #2 is now $2.099 and #1 is $2.639 plus the #2 has more BTU per gallon. But that furnace will perform better on #1.

Miller and Lear-Seigler both used to be manufactured in my homwtown. Theres an awful lot of Miller stuff still going, they made a lot of forced-draft gas furnaces that are still on their original draft motor and are over 30 years old.

liketolearn, if you run into a bind again like that deisel fuel will get you out of a jamb just as easy and maybe even a little cheaper. Bus driver,I'm curious as to where you're coming up with those nozzle sizes. All the ones I've been using for years are measured in GPH plus cone angle plus spray pattern, either hollow, semi solid or solid. What kind of nozzles are rated as you have described here? Can you elaborate?

"a .5 gallon per hour nozzle,". A quote from myself. Obviously I did not mention the angle and spray pattern. They are of course important and substitutes are not recommended. I did not suggest ignoring any of those. But for a .5GPH furnace to have a .6GPH nozzle installed, even if the .6 is otherwise correct in the other characteristics, is likely to soon cause major problems. The .6 is a 20% oversize compared to the .5. I have seen such shoddy service work several times. "What kind of nozzles are rated as you have described here? Can you elaborate?". Not sure what you are asking.

Wow what a surprise to see this thread continueing on!

I have no mechanical knowledge of the furnace but I do believe that it is the original furnace. The original owners of the mobile home were a retired couple. They sold it to a couple who moved it on to their property and lived in it while building their new home. We then purchased the trailer almost 20 years ago also planning to live in it while building a new home. Life happens (job changes, started a business, etc). Finally we purchased another peice of property and began building a new home.

Our mobile home is now 36 years old and looks it every bit with numerous roof leaks and the cabinets literally disintergrating. We joke (though it's true) that the crackhouses on TV actually look much better than the mobile home we are living in. But the low cost of living in the mobile home allowed up to save money (on a very modest income) to build our new home. We're hoping the furnace (and the trailer) lasts through the end of the winter till we move into our new home.

Todate we've had the furnace serviced about once a year. Mostly the service was a cleaning and replacement of the nozzle. Once (maybe twice) we've had a repair bill of $200 to replace some part. Pretty good history for a furnace that's heating a very leaky and poorly insulated mobile home.

Although I took the required oil and propane furnace courses years ago at MATC in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, I didn't do much with oil and absolutely nothing with propane.

I stayed away from oil because I didn't want the smell all over me and my truck, and I didn't want to buy additional test equipment and parts inventory.

Propane service in Wisconsin required an additional rider on my liability insurance and the cost wasn't worth what little propane business there was around Milwaukee.

Another way to get a little extra heat of the furnace is to increase the output pressure to the nozzle. This was taught to us as a stop gap and/or fine tuning method for increased heating ability and we were told not to exceed 120 psi when doing this. No mention was ever made of larger nozzles hurting anything unless the flame pattern was incorrect for the combustion chamber size and length. Of course with an incorrect flame pattern hitting the walls of the combustion chamber, you would get a lot of smoking.

Fairyprincess

"What kind of nozzles are rated as you have described here? Can you elaborate?". Not sure what you are asking.
What I mean is nozzles aren't made or used as you describe here. I've never seen that kind of rating system for nozzles. There are .50, .65, .75 etc but replacing a .50 with a .65 isn't really going to overheat a combustion chamber. And the cone angle is important. And as fairyprincess (who by the way is an alias I believe) stated already, if you replace with a smaller size nozzle just increase the pump pressure.

I now see that my thoughts as expressed earlier differ from the markings on the nozzle. But they do not differ in meaning. Replacing a .50 original with a .60 or .65 in a furnace designed for and specifying a .50 certainly will damage the combustion chamber.

"Replacing a .50 original with a .60 or .65 in a furnace designed for and specifying a .50 certainly will damage the combustion chamber."
What makes you say its going to damage the combustion chamber? How will it do that? You're talking just a little bit extra BTU inbut, certainly nothing that will make any bit of difference pertaining to what you are claiming anyway. There are probably countless oil burners out in the field with nozzles different than what is specified by the mfg. and they're running with very little difference then the original. Picture this, 4 in the morning and this customer hasn't had heat all night. You find a plugged .50 nozzle and all you have in your stock is a .60 or .65. That nozzle is going in that burner without even giving it a second thought and the thought of destroying the combustion chamber will never cross the techs mind. Combustion chambers are not made according to nozzle size.

Most furnaces have a range of acceptable nozzle sizes anyway. I dont think overfiring an oil furnace by 10,000 BTU's is going to really damage it, 30,000 and you'd have to make some more drastic adjustments.

"I dont think overfiring an oil furnace---". We are simply not going to agree on this one. I have seen the damage resulting from overfiring a Miller mobile home furnace by 14,000 BTU/hr. It is a bit incongruous to contend that the cone angle and spray cone type are important (and I do agree that they are important) but to also contend that the GPH is not especially significant. In a no-heat situation, the typical "technician" installs whatever is available at that moment. For the units I service, I have marked the specs of the nozzle on the unit with a marker and have two new correct nozzles stored with the unit. And sometimes, they do not get stolen. After installing an incorrect nozzle in an emergency, a responsible technician will return soon with the correct nozzle and install it. If he installs a .60 as substitute for an original .50, the next person seeing the .60 may assume that a .70 will be satisfactory. Criticize my position all that you will, my oil burner service work is very good.

BD, every oil fired heating appliance has a rating plate and if you look at that plate many times it'll be written with 2 values. So just by changing the nozzle size you've changed the BTU output. I'm not criticizing your position by no means, you are a very knowledgeable contributor here. I just disagree with you that such a small deviation from specified nozzle size in a piece of equipment is going to damage a combustion chamber. Do you think there is any difference in flame temperature between a .50 nozzle and a .65? If any it's minimal. For what its worth, I know a little about oil myself,, the smallest nozzle I've dealt with all winter is a 6.0

Bus Driver:

I don't understand, don't mobile home oil burners have limit controls?

If they don't, you may be right, but if they do have limit controls, the worst that will happen is that the gun will short cycle and create a lot of residual oil in the combustion chamber.

I would be more concerned with improper flame patterns which are hitting the combustion chamber walls and creating smoking.

Fairyprincess

i have a miller heating unit in my prefab home (1982) and have it serviced yearly it has clogged the nozzle about 4 times in the last 8 years - lucky i was home and nothing happened - when they come to service it seems they never have the right nozzle and put one in temporally - is it possible for me to find the right size and get replacements so i can change myself or at least have the correct nozzle when they come to unclog the nozzle - do you know where to get

Any oil heating supply house will have nozzles as well as some better equiped hardware stores. If you're plugging up nozzles something is getting by your filter and the oil pump screen. Is the service company changing those 2 items regularly? You may have an old tank too that could be loaded with sludge. Does the oil leave the tank through a bottom fitting? Your tank may be pitched the wrong way. There are also some sludge dispersants on the market and as a last resort you may want to find a company in your area that does tank pumping to suck most of that crud out.
The nozzle size, angle and patern should be on the furnace tag, in the literature or by contacting Miller

"BD, every oil fired heating appliance has a rating plate and if you look at that plate many times it'll be written with 2 values." Since this thread is again active, I spotted this quote from an earlier post. Certainly there are two values, the larger is the input BTU (based on the amount of oil consumed at specified pressure with the specified nozzle), the smaller number is the BTU output of the unit. The difference between the two can be used to calculate the theoretical operating efficiency of the unit. The MOBILE home furnaces I have seen, without exception, specify one specific nozzle for that unit, not a range of sizes. The Intertherm unit I installed new last year has just one nozzle specified. I never use a larger nozzle than specified. I have one house with a 1953 (not a misprint) Century furnace with stainless steel combustion chamber which does specify .75 to 1.25 nozzle. In an 800 square foot house, it heats fine with a .85 nozzle and uses less oil per degree-day than with a 1.0 nozzle.

What the hell is wrong with you people ? The first thing
we were taught and the first thing in the gas or oil code is " DO NOT OVER FIRE " . If the tech. doesn't have the right nozzle in his or her tool box, emergency or not, GET
THE RIGHT ONE. Sorry,sorry. I forgot.Most of the U.S. has
very little or no codes unless someone is hurt or killed.
They do what it takes to make money. Sorry again. Disregard this post. just my input. ( i can't believe you
guys get away with this.) From what i've read on this site
70% of the so called techs. would be doing some serious time. Don't get me wrong. There are very good techs. on this site and they know who they are. It's just code issues
from different areas. No biggy if no one is hurt and someone makes money. just one man's opinion.

Hey kalining, you're a good guy and all and certainly knowledgeable but its getting a little old hearing you put us and our ways down all the time. If you think all America cares about is the almighty dollar just remember where most of the aid comes from whenever there is a major disaster anywhere in this world. And it doesn't make a damn bit of difference if that piss ass little toilet of a country hates us or not, we're there. Do you have any idea of the diversity your neighbors to the south have? At this very moment somewhere there is an American shoveling out from 10 feet of snow and at the very same time another American is frolicking around in the ocean surf. What works for one part of this country does not work in another. If you are getting you ideas of our codes from this forum I can tell you right now it is probably the least reliable source for that information. I should probably also remind you that most of the stuff that you work on that puts food on your table and a roof over your head is in one way or another of American origin or influence. Maybe to you its the almighty dollar so maybe you should refuse to work on anything associated with my country from now on. Then see how busy you are and what happens to your business. Besides what makes anything in Canada the rock solid laws we should live by? In my 57+ years I can remember this country having to rely on Canada for anything! Well, maybe sheetrock! And Molson too! And alot of big round hairy people who say "EH" and "HOH HOH" alot. :-)

Don't go there.

Mr. Havac:

You forgot about toilets from Canada.

At one time, 3.5 and 5 gallon flush toilets smuggled in from Canada were the number two most smuggled items in the US, with illicit drugs being number one.

Last I heard, R12 manufactured in India, which had not signed on to the Montreal Protocol, was number two.

I don't know what the number two most smuggled item into the US is currently.

Fairyprincess

Nice flame, guys. Keeps me on my toes. At least i know i'm
not the only one wacking away on a key board when i should
be doing dishes or shoveling snow. Keep up the good work.
I like the competition. Actually, HVAC, most of the products from the U.S. electrical or mechanical are not
allowed in canada. EXP. Wolf ranges,sub zero, all gas fired equipment with A.G.A on the fittings and other stuff.
They do not meet C.S.A. approval. The equipment that does
get here from the U.S. and other countries has to be
recertified and altered to pass our code requirements.
just some F.Y.I.

T.T.F.N.

Doing dishes?!!!! Are you for real kalining? Why don't you get yourself one of those southern united states dish washers? They do a terrific job and if you walk it three or four times a day it won't pee or crap in the house! :-)

Actually i had a really good dish washer but she divorced
me. She didn't like me peeing and craping in the house.
Man,that was sick. Tooooooo many R12 and fuel oil snorts.
R22 does give a better buzz though. think i'll stay off this site for awhile before i'm banned. I've already been
sensored a few times. Mr. HVAC. I'll let you take over for
me.I know you will do a good job. Actually there are a few
boys on this site i really like. They call a spade a spade
and your one of them. The other good people know who they
are. This site is good education for all. Try HVAC Mechanic.com and see how the D.I.Y.ers do. You think i'm
hard. i'll poke in from time to time. this beer is empty.

T.T.F.N.

Oh hell you can't stay away from us kalining, its 50 below zero up there, what else are you gonna do start prepping the garden? So I guess you know thats why a bride wears white,,, the dishwasher should always match the stove and fridge! LOL I don't think they'll sensor you for stuff like that. Stick around man, we need people who can loosen up once in a while,,, to many tight butts in here. Some people expect the whole world for a free site and develop an attitude when they don't hear what the want to hear.

This is true.

Hoo boy...what an off-topic clusterfreak this thread has become! Might as well add to it...

I have to disagree with the US as the be-all, end-all of origin and influence. At least that was not the case when I lived in Singapore and Indonesia.

For example, US diesel vehicles do not meet emissions requirements for Singapore. Toyota, Isusu, and Mitsubishi dominate the market there. Just like many European countries, all three use particulate traps for thier diesel engines. You will not see a smoking diesel auto, truck, or bus in Singapore.

Some US autos can't be sold in S'pore because of the brakelights and turn signals. They require that rear turn signals use a completely seperate bulb from the brake lights. in addition, rear turn signals must be amber. This is a safety protocol inherited from Europe.

US banks also have trouble in the Singapore market. The Lion City has adopted EU guidelines for customer privacy that US firms simply could not stomach. Such laws cut down junk mail and reduce the chance of identity theft.

Then there is the mobile phone market. US-based standards such as CDMA are virtually unheard of in Asia. The European GSM standard rules, and for good reason. GSM requires the least battery power to produce a usable signal.

There is US influence in Asia, to be sure. However, it is not the prime-mover some people would believe.

And to our friends from the Great White North...

My furnace install has a few components from Canada. The 13ga, 275 gallon Crown oil tank (no relation whatsoever to Crown Boiler Company) I picked up from the Big Orange Box was made in New Brunswick. The 24ga black T's and black solid 90° elbow for the flue I bought at a local hardware store were made in Canada. A flue cover plate, as well as some of the assorted hardware I needed, was also Canadian made.

Lot's of things come from, or are influenced by, the American market. Unless you have lived abroad, however, you may be tempted to overrate the effect.

Peace.

Marco

I love Molson.

As in Molson Canadian ? This site beats The Young and The
Restless. Stay tuned for the Bob Brown responce brought to
you by Gardenweb.com. This is getting to be fun.

T.T.F.N.

Molson - as in Molson Golden, Molson Ice, and Molson Canadian.

Marco, you indeed know a lot. I don't know about particulate traps in Australia and NZ (a great idea) since you can still see soot there, (perhaps less in newer vehicles, so the rule may apply there) but after many years in that part of the world, I find it weird and disturbing to see a red turn signal, with that side of the vehicle "disappearing" at night. Any vehicle sold outside north america has amber signals, separate, all round, so I guess they just use the amber setup here in Canada (and, presumably, the US) if they're "world" cars, the only ones I still see with the red are totally n.american vehicles.

No doubt the US influence is ubiquitous in all places, but it's not always that popular, either, sometimes for good reason, sometimes not. I'm not trying to reignite the flame, but other countries cherish their independence.

Wikipedia is a really good source of the history of US influence, and if you read about The United Fruit Company (now basically Dole) you'll see what I mean....indeed as the world's most powerful nation it often appears the US does provide all the aid, which may be somewhat true, but what other countries do is often overlooked. Australia and NZ's contribution to the Pacific nations, for example.

Let's not forget one of the biggest US exports/earners is basically royalties, with subsidiaries of US companies evident throughout the world. In a sense, this aid is quid pro quo- it's not always easy to sell stuff to the US.

Nafta and the pending US-Australia 'free trade' agreement are good examples.

Hey pjb999 and Marco, lets not turn this thing into a darn economics class, we're talking some serious stuff here like Molson ale, etc. who cares what the heck color the blinkers are on cars in Singapore traffic.