I have to take a moment and let you know that the type of neighborhood the OT was missing still does exists, even in big cities! I live in Houston (in the actual city and not a suburb) and my subdivision is often referred to as a Mayberry type of neighborhood. This is in fact the second time I've lived here. I lived here first in 2000-2004, moved back "home" to a small town in Louisiana, and then returned back to Houston in 2006. We could have moved to any area of Houston and chose to move 2 blocks from our old house. My neighborhood is the kind where you know your neighbors, kids play outside, we have block parties, neighborhood swim teams, great schools, a 4th of July parade, etc. When someone has a baby, surgery, family crisis, there are endless meals. I had a serious car accident in Feb and had meals for 2 weeks. We are always saying that we are anomally and realize what a unique neighborhood we are. It can be Peyton Place at times but we realize our blessings. This is our 9th house in 16 years and I have lived all over the world. This is by far the best neighborhood we've ever encountered.

"Oh, and no baked goods for me, thank you very much, unless I've seen the inside of your house and kitchen."

LOL! I was just waiting for this one to surface. I have a dear friend who is a complete slob, so I understand the sentiment.

Interesting discussion, brought it up with my neighbor last night ;-)

We decided it's the luck of the draw and to each his own.

In our previous home, we were welcomed by no one. Somewhat understandable as we were surrounded by bachelors. Yes, bachelors in a kid-raising neighborhood. Two were playboy types who were never home, the other one was retired and did nothing but watch sports from his lazy boy all day/night. How do I know? Front door open with storm door you could see through. ICK!

We moved into our current home 5 years ago. The day before we moved in my next door neighbor and the one across the street were tanning in the sun watching her husband paint the house. I went over and intro'd myself and told them I'd never never thought of painting as a spectator sport ;-)

The day after we moved in, we were invited over for happy hour, and we've been great friends ever since. She and I trade books back and forth. He's a manic DIY - he put in our DW and tiled our half bath! And even though they have kids and we don't, on any given summer weekend you can find both gates open (our carports face each other) and the kids go back and forth from pool to pool and have a blast (their kids learned to swim in our pool before we bought the house and before they put their pool in).

And so it goes...

Snooty? I kiss my cat on the lips! LOL

Booger fingers, using the bathroom and not washing hands because after all you were only peeing, cigarettes their ashes and smoke, baby diapers - the changing of and forgetting to wash hands because the little one needs something, finger licking, head scratching, picking, an itch you wouldn't scratch in public, oops that fell on the (dirty, perhaps filthy) floor but no one saw, dogs and cats - their slobber and licking of various parts - jumping on counters - fur (I adore animals btw), general filth and the list goes on...

I would never give home baked/cooked anything to anyone that I didn't know or who didn't know good ole' catlip kissing me.

It's bad enough casting your fate to the wind by eating in a restaurant, as anyone who has worked in the industry can attest to.

I am civic and community minded and neighborly to the extent that I will help you if you need help and you won't have to ask.
Kind of like when the house of our neighbors across the street (we only knew them from saying hi) went on fire the day after Christmas and I/we kept their 4 cats along with ours for 6 months so they wouldn't have to be boarded. They came to collect them the day after the fire to take them and were surprised that we had intended to keep them with us after they had been rescued.
Yep, real snooty.
I probably kissed them on the lips too. :-D
Trust me, you would NOT have wanted baked goods from our house. You'd never know by looking at the surface though.

It's kind of funny. During our kitchen remodel, it never occurred to me that our neighbors would bring us food. And my closest ones knew the grief we were going through.

I don't know what I would do without my neighbors. Call it luck of the draw, but we have close friendships with each other.

One neighbor let me, my husband, and two kids move in for six days while our hardwood floors were being refinished. In addition she found a microwave for me to use in my temporary kitchen, cooked for me, had me to dinner and allowed me to come in and use her stove for make noodles and other things I couldn't do at home any time I wanted.

My other neighbor had me and the kids for late afternoon playdates with dinner often.

We also lived in a rental during the renovation for a few months and found those neighbors to be friendly enough but not in the same way as my at home. Perhaps the "renter" stigma is true??

It's bad enough casting your fate to the wind by eating in a restaurant, as anyone who has worked in the industry can attest to.

heh. actually, joanie, i'm a chef who's worked in the restaurant industry for the last 15 years. and i can attest that you're 100% wrong. the overwhelming majority of restaurants have incredibly high standards and eating at them is perfectly safe.

based on what you just posted, i'd say that you've got a bit of a complex about germs and bacteria. most of us who aren't young children, elderly, or people who have problems with their immune systems manage to coexist quite happily with the millions of bacteria that occupy our guts at any given moment. and it's been like that for as long as anyone can remember--back before the days of anti-bacterial everything. really! it's a wonder anyone survived at all!

so, yes, i'm well versed in sanitation standards and food safety. the restaurant that i run serves 800-1000 people every day without incident. and, yes, i happily eat food that people prepare for me in their home kitchens--in fact, i'm honored that they went to the trouble and thought of me. and, yes, i'm still here, alive and kicking.

so, yes. hate to break it to you, but....snooty.

joanie b - LOL, Do cats have lips?

edlakin -- I knew I liked you. I totally agree. I am a restaurant owner and I can tell you that we have never missed more than 2 points on our sanitation inspections, (the 2 we missed.... employees putting their lunch on bottom shelf of walk-in and some other benign issue.) We also eat out quite a bit and never fear the restaurants we patronize.

Likewise I take food to families often for new babies, injury, or illness etc. We here, all do this. My family has been the recipient of many meals by friends and others and was so blessed by receiving that I truly never thought there might be a problem.

Now about this neighbor thing, I have long thought it was tragic that there seems to be no more neighborhoods. When I was little there were moms and kids and babies etc. Moms shared recipes, talked, gave each others kids ride to the pool etc. I miss this kind of life. Not that we were any of our neighbors good friends, but we were certainly neighborly.

I understand that economics and other issues have changed the family greatly but I think we all loose when our neighborhoods and our communities disappear.

I am moving to the country so will definitely only have a few neighbors but they are all very friendly. They loan tools, help each other with farm issues, share seeds, compare crops & harvests, etc.

I really love it and can't wait to be a country girl.

Bill V -

So glad to be a summer resident in Maine - nothing like "Mainers" - It's an adjustment for us each summer going from the fast paced, overly competitive part of Ct to Maine, nonetheless quite a welcome one.
One of my first interfaces was carrying an infant into Shaws and a woman going out of her way to retrieve a cart for me - In my town I have to watch my ankles as the carts rear up on them. Then when my shopping completed an employee helping me to the car

WE LOVE MAINE!

the renter stigma is there. I do introduce myself to new tenants and welcome them, but only when they are outside anyway-- I wouldn't knock on their door and disturb their peace and quiet just so that they can meet me. The rental next door typically has a 4 month or less turn over. If it were longer, things may be diffferent.

I do love the idea of preparing a sheet of paper with important neighborhood numbers-- I'm going to do that next time we get a new neighbor.

We have great neighbors. Chat over the fence, feed each other's animals while on vacation-type neighbors. We're friendly, but there's times I just want to disappear or blend.

I *totally* get not wanting to feel the need to see people or interact all the time. My DH works 13 hour days. There are many days I do the same. When I'm home, I usually don't even want to *speak*, or be spoken to. I'm drained. I've interacted with people all day. I've been in "go" mode. At home, I want to wear my fat-pants, take off my shoes, and just relax. I don't answer my phone, and I don't appreciate drop-by visitors.

Sometimes I just want to go outside and pull a weed or two, without having to stop to chat with neighbors.

And for the record, there have been homes that I would not have wanted baked goods from, but I would think the gesture sweet. I don't think that's snooty at all, and I think it's pretty dadgummed snooty as well to repeatedly tell someone else they're being snooty!

I love this thread because I have some inner conflict around it!

I currently live in a development where we all bought our homes new in 2000. Most of us are in close to the same stage of life, younger families, move up home. Many of the moms stay at home, so have more time to bond with one another. They seem to do all of that neighborly stuff and hanging out that you guys are talking about. I know all of the neighbors and are on neighborly good terms with them. However, I work full time and DH travels for a living, so I don't hang out with anyone!

What I have found is I really HATE the almost high schoolish cliquishness. All of the families are judged and commented on. Not in a mean way, really, but enough to be sure that if they are all talking about each other, you know they're talking about you too.

Up until recently, I didn't give a hoot. Then my little one started having some behavioral problems with adjusting to our recent moves (we moved away for 2 years). He became the talk. The "group" has boys his age, so suddenly no one could play at our house, and the kids weren't nice. Little ones don't have the same editors the parent do, so they often share what they hear at home.

In Hawaii, we were neighborly, but at different stages of life. There weren't kids to play with, so we had to import them, but home was a safe place where you didn't have to watch your back.

I much prefer the polite neighborly distance we had in Hawaii, the pretend we are all so close (until someone is a bit different) makes me ill.

We bought land to build a new home but love the neighborhood we have so decided to do a huge remodel. We've not regretted it. We've lived here 24 years and are so lucky to have the neighborhood we have. We all help each other out in times of need (funerals, sickness, etc.) yet no one intrudes. I never have a neighbor drop in unannounced for a visit. None of us socialize with each other on a daily visit but we have a neighborhood book club that meets once a month, one neighbor usually hosts a Christmas party and DH & I usually host a summer potluck in our backyard. We all co-exist very nicely.

Last night we had a Neighborhood Watch meeting and the police officer was telling us how lucky we are to live here. Crime is virtually non-existent in our neighborhood yet the side of town we live in has some very rough areas. The police officer attributed it to our watch program, how we have a phone message tree, we watch each other's homes, etc. By the efforts we have all put in we have a safe neighborhood, a friendly neighborhood but no intrusive neighbors. I'm a very lucky girl!

I think it's pretty dadgummed snooty as well to repeatedly tell someone else they're being snooty!

why?

Why? It implies there's something wrong with having that opinion. I don't think precautions about the origins of baked goods in non-monitored kitchens is wrong at all. It's a bit unnerving to think about it, having seen some people's standards (or lack thereof), though I still contend the gesture is sweet.

But to be told that it's "snooty" is rude and dismissive, as it seems to imply that you *shouldn't* have that opinion, or you would only have that opinion if you're too snobby. In turn, I find that dismissiveness to be snooty.

This has developed into a very interesting thread! I haven't had new neighbors in a number of years. I don't think I would bake cookies as a welcome wagon thing -- too many people are allergic/dieting/whatever -- but I certainly would introduce myself.

As for accepting cookies from someone else, I'd be delighted to meet more neighbors who take the trouble to bake instead of serving store bought cookies! I've been to too many "catered by Costco" BBQs and parties! I presume that anyone who bakes does so because s/he cares about food, which means that s/he probably adheres to basic cleanliness standards...at least until proven otherwise. Besides, baking in a 350 degree oven will destroy all germs. Okay, so I'm snooty for homemade things....

Why? It implies there's something wrong with having that opinion. I don't think precautions about the origins of baked goods in non-monitored kitchens is wrong at all. It's a bit unnerving to think about it, having seen some people's standards (or lack thereof), though I still contend the gesture is sweet.

But to be told that it's "snooty" is rude and dismissive, as it seems to imply that you *shouldn't* have that opinion, or you would only have that opinion if you're too snobby. In turn, I find that dismissiveness to be snooty.

hmm. interesting take. i think i was reacting more to *how* joanne said that she'd turn her nose up at homemade baked goods that a neighbor might bring over to her than to the actual idea that one might be cautious about accepting potentially disease-ridden baked goods.

it came off as snooty the way she said it. a less snooty way to say it might've been "we have some food allergies and sensitivities in our family, so we tend to be fairly cautious about eating food that people might offer up, although we certainly appreciate the kind gesture".

and as for calling it out being rude or dismissive or whatever, i'm sorry you feel that way. i tend to be like a bull in a china shop sometimes when i see behavior that i find rude or mean or offensive, and, especially in company that tends to be very conflict-evasive, that can sometimes ruffle feathers.

but this (the loss of community) is an issue that i feel quite strongly about and i believe it's worth ruffling a few feathers to point out the attitudes that are displayed by such a statement. one of the major reasons community is disappearing is this judgemental competition people wage so that they can feel superior to neighbors, co-workers, etc... it's part of a larger society-wide "pefection complex" that many people have as a result of advertising, media, etc, constantly pushing this idea that every aspect of your life has to be perfect, that we have to measure ourselves against celebrities wrt homes, clothes, weddings, looks, etc.

it's crazy-making stuff and i know a *lot* of people who end up driving themselves nuts because of it.

sneeringly looking down one's nose because their neighbor's kid drops a strawberry stem on the floor and citing that as an example of how slovenly and unclean they are is a perfect example. we use these sort of comparisons to build ourselves up in our own minds and make ourselves feel like we're better and that much closer to perfect.

but in the process, we distance ourselves from our community and further isolate ourselves, with the end result being that we have everything we could want, everything just-so, but still we feel unfulfilled, lonely, and wanting something more.

i'm speaking generally, of course, and extrapolating a lot from the actual real-life examples given in this topic, so please, nobody take offense. but these are real phenomena that have been studied and documented. it's a real problem in our society, so, yes, i'm going to continue to point out examples of this attitude when i see them, even if it ruffles some feathers and even if people find it "rude" or "snooty".

Besides, baking in a 350 degree oven will destroy all germs.

bingo. and the sugar content of most baked goods will effectively kill any harmful bacteria even if the item is contaminated after baking. sugar is a natural preservative because, due to a process called hygroscopy, sugar pulls moisture away from bacteria--they dehydrate and cannot survive in foods with high sugar content.

A thought I had, and I don't even know if it's relevant: If you pass someone while walking out in the middle of nowhere, a wilderness, and you encounter someone, you'd certainly say hello. When you pass people in a city, you never do. It's a little like personal space. Might this be true: If you live rural, you talk. Burbs, less so. City, hardly ever.

My neighborhood is friendly, 4th of July and New Year's parties, conversations in the street. As an experiment to see how the Internet would help neighbors to communicate, I developed a web site, www.cuppasugar.com. (Really, this isn't an ad.) I thought that maybe the distance the Internet provides might encourage people to communicate with each other more, ask for favors, make recommendations for good contractors, neighborhood watch, etc. It might offer a venue for cooperation, but at a distance, without people showing up on each other's porches. About 20 people signed up on the site but there was only one post during the entire next year. But, maybe this says more about Internet use patterns than neighborhood community. It's true that people are busy and we're all rich enough to not need help.

I'm glad some of you/us are not neighbors! ;-p

Just a comment about gifts. When someone has taken the time to get a new neighbor a gift (whether it is home baked/made or purchased) it is done with the best of intentions and is a gesture of welcome. Accepting the gift in the same spirit is the only gracious way to respond. What the recipient does with the gift behind closed doors is their call.

Wow! Where did I say I would turn my nose up at anything? I would never do anything like that to someone who is being kind and generous.
I suppose you totally missed the ;-) at the end of my original post.

You, Mr. Ed, read what *you* wanted into my post and, without knowing me, judged me and decided who and what I am. Not very neighborly of you. :-P

Also, as a practitioner of the 'Five Second Rule' I don't think you could catergorize me as having a complex about germs, etc. :-)

I don't think anyone here would say no thanks to an offered gift at the door. However, I really like hearing what people really think (because we're online), rather than the polite answer given personally. I don't think that an opinion given here is snooty unless it is a personal attack.

Have you ever received a gift that you didn't like? However out of politeness, gave the giver the impression that you loved it. Then, thinking you loved the gift, they continued to give you more of the same. Then, you are in a group and it comes out that you don't care for lemon pie (or whatever it is) and you see the giver's face recognize that what she had been giving you for all these years wasn't what you actually like. It's not the best feeling.

It has never occured to me that some people are funny about home baked goods. Actually, it makes perfect sense to me - I'm not offended at all. So thinking about this, I can actually alter my holiday baking a little to alieviate concerns... It has been great food for thought! I may actually do an ingredient label that states something funny about the tempature used being high enough to kill anything!

Wow! Where did I say I would turn my nose up at anything? I would never do anything like that to someone who is being kind and generous. I suppose you totally missed the ;-) at the end of my original post.

you didn't actually use the words "turn up my nose", but your original statement was:

Oh, and no baked goods for me, thank you very much, unless I've seen the inside of your house and kitchen. ;-)

i saw your emoticon, but i didn't take it to mean that you didn't mean what you said about turning down baked goods from those whose kitchens hadn't been inspected for cleanliness.

sorry if i misinterpreted. that's part of the deal with online communications sometimes, i guess.

since everything else in your last post is also followed by emoticons, i suppose i'll just assume you don't mean any of it to be taken at face value. sigh. maybe it's best if i just avoid responding to your posts for a while.

but this (the loss of community) is an issue that i feel quite strongly about and i believe it's worth ruffling a few feathers to point out the attitudes that are displayed by such a statement

And that, my dear edlakin, is exactly what I find snooty. Because *you* feel strongly about this issue, you feel it important to point out opinions that may not be your own in a disparaging or negative light. Again, the implication is that because we don't feel the same way about community that you do (sorry, lots of folks don't *want* that kind of community--me included), that the opinion needs changing, or at very least, it needs to be chastised.

It may be reverse snobbery, but it still smacks of snobbery to me. "I feel strongly about this issue, so I need to point the "error" in your thinking". It's presumptuous and rude, IMO, to expect everyone to think the exact same way you do.

"Community" is changing. EVERYTHING is changing. And while I like my neighbors, I don't have any desire to be in a neighborhood where our lives are closely intertwined. I'm zapped. And maintaning relationships takes time and work. And I really don't want to. So there.

Here's why I think "no baked goods for me, thank you very much..." is a snooty remark:

It implies, "I assume everyone's hygiene is inferior to mine until I have proof otherwise." That translates to "I'm superior, you're not." It doesn't give others the benefit of the doubt, nor does it see others as equals. That's being snooty.

I'm sure Joanie_B is a lovely person, didn't intend to come off snooty, & is shocked that anyone would judge her remarks as such. It's just another incident where what one writes conveys something one did not intend. She should have stated something like, "Of course, I appreciate the effort they put into baking and I thank them warmly, but I'm squeamish about eating food from strangers." Instead, what she wrote came off very strongly, and the emoticon was totally lost in the resulting blast & heat.

Am I being snooty for saying this? I don't think so. Judgemental is probably more accurate. But being judgemental is human nature. We all weigh other's ideas against our own.

Because *you* feel strongly about this issue, you feel it important to point out opinions that may not be your own in a disparaging or negative light. Again, the implication is that because we don't feel the same way about community that you do (sorry, lots of folks don't *want* that kind of community--me included), that the opinion needs changing, or at very least, it needs to be chastised.

good points, but the only thing i was disparaging or negative about was the comment about not accepting a kind gesture of baked goods until she'd ensured the person's kitchen was up to her standards.

as far as being negative about the loss of community-mindedness in neighbors, well, that's what this thread is about. the OP started the thread to "rant" about how unwelcoming their new neighbors were being. so if you don't want to hear negative opinions about unfriendly neighbors, then you might just be in the wrong thread.

Nah, not in the wrong thread. The OP's post was more of a "what the heck?" type post, wondering if others felt the same way.

I'm merely giving another opinion that does indeed answer what others may feel about the situation. The OP's original post was not saying that one neighborhood way is wrong, or "becoming lost", but rather just questioning what others thoughts are, and what they'd expect in her situation.

I didn't find her thread or her question confrontational, as I did yours, as she seemed to be just asking an opinion after stating an example. Your posts, on the other hand, seemed to imply that there truly *is* one right way to have a community, and the whole bit about it being your duty to ruffle feathers to drive home your point came off as a bit preachy and condescending.

As for my participation on this thread and others, I feel right at home, thankyouverymuch, and will continue to post where I have an interest.

Ok, maybe this will help - all of you who will turn down kind gestures of homemade baked goods if you are unsure how sanitary the giver is can kindly send them my way.

I love homemade sweets :)

Especially love them more now that Ed let me know the sugar kills the germs. I always knew there were innate benefits in sugar :)

I do find it a bit odd though that people would pass up someone's homemade cooking just because they haven't inspected that person's kitchen. Does that mean you eat nothing any co-worker at work brings in? Don't participate in office parties? Other get-togethers where people bring a dish? Etc, etc

Your posts, on the other hand, seemed to imply that there truly *is* one right way to have a community, and the whole bit about it being your duty to ruffle feathers to drive home your point came off as a bit preachy and condescending.

i think that's a complete misrepresentation of what i actually said. but it's probably best to let it drop at this point.

i'm sorry you didn't like what i had to say, reno fan. peace.

First, we had this discussion at school today. We talked about the breakdown of the family unit, and how it's affecting our school. As far as Florida goes, we have so many people coming and going now in our community, I can see were one could become "used" to people moving in and out. That being said, when our new neighbors moved in two weeks ago, I made them the most disgustingly (is that a word?) full of chocolate brownies that you have ever seen.

I grew up in NJ where I always wanted to be the "new kid" because they were few and far between and when they arrived, got all of the attention. Sometimes it seems that everyone has been new at one time or another down here. The other thing is that people used to pretty much stay put unless their job moved them. People are more adventurous these days and aren't afraid to pick up and move to a new place. Some have to move to try to start over and find a better life.

I know that I'm all over the place, but about the sanitary conditions, at school I have kids come in all of the time handing me a cookie because it's their birthday. They often lick their fingers after they hand me mine. I tell them thank you, sing Happy Birthday to them in front of my class in the music style of their choice (usually rap these days), thank them, and send them on their way. I put it on my desk, and after the class leaves, most of the time throw it out. I only keep it if they "offer" me one from the container and I can take it myself. Our principal put a ban on baked goods from home years back. They must be store bought and wrapped.

I've been teaching for 25 years, and I can tell you, I've had all kinds of things come in for me to serve to the kids. Many cupcakes came in on a sheet with no cover! It all made me very uncomfortable so I was sad and happy at the same time with the ban. I missed the thought of kids baking with their parents for the big day, but the thought of the hair in the cupcakes made it a better thing.

I can see where one might question what to eat or not to eat, but when someone takes the time to do something for you, you thank them from the bottom of your heart and tell them how delicious they were.

When a new family moves in, I bring them a little Welcome to the neighborhood care package of a loaf of homebaked bread, a carton of salt and a bottle of local wine with a note:

Three blessings for you in your new home

Bread: That you will never be hungry
Salt: To recognize that life can be difficult
Wine: For good health, good cheer and many friends

Welcome to the Neighborhood

I include our name and phone number and a list of important phone numbers and municipal schedules (like trash and bulk item pick-up, annual town garage sale, which pizzarias deliver, local hospital, etc.)

We have a friendly neighborhood, but not overly chummy as we are in many different phases of life and have varied schedules. It's a great place to live.

I see some of the gestures that are kind, and I would always graciously except. however - I personally think it is inappropriate to alcohol, because someone may be an recovering alcoholic. The sweets are a very nice gesture - but I am always trying to watch my weight, and try and keep sweets out of my house (and I really don't love eating a strangers food either!).

By my Rant or advise to "friendly" neighbors, is please wait a couple of weeks before introducing yourselves. The following is probably one reason I avoid neighbors, as it is not the first time....

We closed on our new homes yesterday. at 6;30 PM I went there and started to work my butt off cleaning the house - on my hands and knees. I sweaty, dirty and tired. DH comes with a large truck load, and we start unloading.. it now after 9:00 PM. I pause for a moment to show DH a gap in the hardwood floor, which happens to now be under the dining room table. We are both on our knees, dirty, tired, just want to go home and sleep as soon as we get done, and then.. THE DOORBELL! Yes, our friendly neighbor comes over to introduce himself. I look like crap, and personally - it's annoying that I had to stand in the doorway making small chat. That's my vent..

So glad to be a summer resident in Maine - nothing like "Mainers" - It's an adjustment for us each summer going from the fast paced, overly competitive part of Ct to Maine, nonetheless quite a welcome one.
One of my first interfaces was carrying an infant into Shaws and a woman going out of her way to retrieve a cart for me - In my town I have to watch my ankles as the carts rear up on them. Then when my shopping completed an employee helping me to the car

WE LOVE MAINE!

jejvtr-- So you know exactly where I'm coming from!! Before Florida, I lived my whole life in the New Haven area (grew up in Orange). I started coming up here to visit in 1981, and from the very first time, I swore that if I ever had the chance, I'd move up here in a heartbeat! It's an entirely different way of life here. :-)

I don't think joanne ever said she wouldn't ACCEPT a gift of homebaked goods. It may have come across that way but I'm a believer that people don't set out to be rude and all she meant was that she wouldn't want to eat it. I'm sure if someone came to the door with a plate full of fresh from the oven cookies (mmmmmm) she wouldn't say to them, "well thanks for the gesture but unless you let me tour your kitchen right this very minute, and unless I find your kitchen to be spotless and free of cat hair, boogers and picked off scabs, you can just take these right back home". No. She would say something to the affect of, "how sweet, thank you so much", chat politely for a minute, shut the door, dump the plate in the trash, and a few days later either write a thank you note, return the plate in person, or call said neighbor and thank them for the "lovely gesture".

And yeah, baked in a 350 degree oven and containing sugar may kill bacteria, but what happens when you set those freshly baked cookies down on nasty counters or what happens when the baker wipes the snot off their nose and then proceeds to touch each cookie while transferring them to a portable dish or sneezes on them on her way over to your house or drops one on the floor her kitty litter using kitty just walked across and what if she is a believer in the "ten second rule" when your rule is more like 5 seconds...LOL!

Personally, I have no shame, I love a fresh cookie, I'll risk a little tummy upset for a good chocolate chip. But I understand why some wouldn't!

It's just different strokes for different folks! But I think I'm going to start looking for a summer home in Maine! ;o)

wow i can't believe this OT post generated such spirited discussion, and here I am responding too.

People have their own lives and renofan presented a very good point. People also tend to move a lot more and work longer hours than before. Also gone are the days when the kid would leave a house in the morning and would come back at night, so of course it made sense to know the neighbors and the kids.

Upon moving here 5 years ago I didn't expect any cookie offerings or for somebody to knock on my door. We met in due time and we are all very fond of each other. But heck, we don't BBQ together or spend holidays together. I would never feel entitled to offers of meals during the kitchen remodeling!

Most of us had friends before moving, it is hard as it is to keep up with social events. I do not believe my neighbors are unfriendly people or that our neighborhood is unfriendly!

And finally, with respect to the cookies. A lot of people have dietary restrictions (diet, religious reasons), allergies (gluten, wheat, dairy), follow either vegan or vegetarian diets. I would not want to bring food to somebody w/o knowing what they can eat, it is just as bringing alcohol w/o knowing if the recipient could possibly be a recovering alcoholic. I would not want anybody's offerings for the same reason. it is the reality of life, not being snobby.

rmlanza.....ROTFL!!!!
And thank you, too. :-)

No prob joanie b (sorry about gettin' your name wrong!), just tryin' to smOOOOOOOOOOOOth the hackles. ;o)

I've LOVED reading this topic! It made me realize how odd our situation is, however...

My husband moved into our house a year before I moved to the town. He's a young junior faculty member at the local university and we were in a long distance relationship, so we spent most of our time at work or traveling. Since then, we've been busy with renovating and work. While we see that many people in our somewhat-woodland community of 15 houses or so seem to know eachother and go on walks around the block, we usually don't get home til after 8pm and are just about exhausted enough to eat, fall asleep and then get up to go to work the next morning. We haven't avoided our neighbors, but we don't really ever run into them, either.

Recently, we found out that our nearest neighbor has been complaining to the others that we didn't come introduce ourselves to HER! It turns out that she is elderly and not in great shape, but how would we have known that since from our perspective her house appeared to be empty? Is the new etiquette that we are supposed to read our neighbors minds?

Maybe after I go through tenure, we'll have a BBQ.

A lot of people have dietary restrictions (diet, religious reasons), allergies (gluten, wheat, dairy), follow either vegan or vegetarian diets. I would not want to bring food to somebody w/o knowing what they can eat, it is just as bringing alcohol w/o knowing if the recipient could possibly be a recovering alcoholic. I would not want anybody's offerings for the same reason. it is the reality of life

i realize that this *is* a reality, but this kind of thinking is nearly paralyzing and if one starts getting caught up in it, there's nearly nothing one can do wrt relating to other people that might not be considered offensive or inconsiderate.

seriously--think about it...*anything* you could do or say has the potential to offend or trigger a negative reaction... "lived here long?"--what if they just got word of a transfer and are upset about having to leave? "do you have kids?"--what if they're infertile? "nice weather, huh?"--what if they're hard-core environmentalists who see warm clear weather as a symptom of global warming that will eventually kill us all?

(exaggerated for effect, but i think you can see what i'm getting at--if we constantly worry about how every action or statement might offend someone, we may as well lock ourselves in a room and never leave. it's crazy-making.)

personally, i think it's an excuse that people use to be more isolated, insulated, and unfriendly. so what if someone you give wine to is a recovering alcoholic? they'll simply pass the bottle along and thank you for the kind gesture, not take offense--how could you have known?

i think intentions are what count. if your intentions are to be kind and welcoming, it's not required that you take every possible food aversion, addiction, allergy, and lifestyle choice into account. seriously, what with nut allergies, wheat allergies, alcohol, soy, vegetarians, vegans, organic, etc, etc, there's practically nothing that you could offer everyone that would be "safe".

See here's the thing, it is intentions that count, absolutely. However, my intention to not bother or disturb you may still leave you offended that i didn't come by, while I was trying to do my best. The thing is there is never a right answer, just our best answer. In my family it was completely unacceptable to show up without calling first. It's just how I was raised. If you think that's terrible, take it up with my sweet 80 year old grandma! But maybe, the way she raised me (very polite I might add) leaves you cold.

What I try to do when my knickers get a little twisted, is to tell myself that person is doing the best they can. If that best isn't "my" way, I just know that we are different. With people moving so much it is possible that we have been raised with a greater variance in tradition than perhaps it used to be. (if everyone was from the same town, it's likely the traditions were similar) I know that everyone has a story, so I better not judge unless I want to be judged, and thanks but I'll pass on that.

I think we can always be safe giving the list of neighborhood contacts (great idea!) or fruit/veggies from the garden. I also think that baked goods are a sweet gesture, but may be tossed. I would rather skip the baking if that's the case. As a matter of fact, I'm thinking of one neighbor who probably didn't eat my christmas toffee - their loss!

Thanks everyone for the dialog - it's been fun!

i agree that this has been a fun discussion and would like to extend apologies/well-wishes to anyone who might have felt offended or put out by anything i've posted.

and, kailuamom, you can send me your christmas toffee--i promise to gladly eat it, even if you employ the five-second rule!

my intention to not bother or disturb you may still leave you offended that i didn't come by

we had a neighbor leave a plant with a note attached on our front porch once. that seems like a pretty good way to get around that one. and it put the ball in our court to call or come by once we got settled in, which i thought was a nice way of allowing for introductions without making us feel pressured during the hectic moving-in period.

Thanks! - I do employ the five second rule, but that is what we get to keep. Only the best gets given! My husband gets pretty clumsy during the holidays.

It never occurred to me that my Welcome to the Neighborhood gesture would offend anyone. It never has either because we are friendly with all the recipients to this day.

Don't want to eat the bread because you think my house doesn't meet your cleanliness standards? Feed it to the birds.

Have high blood pressure and don't use salt? Toss it.

Don't/can't drink alcohol? Pass it on or pour it down the sink.

It's merely a gesture to tell people that their presence is welcome; that if they have a question or problem they are free to call me; that there is at least one family to whom they can smile and wave to in their new neighborhood if they choose.

I agree - I never thought about not giving a gift due to dietary restrictions, which is probably because of my own ignorance since I don't have any.

Like someone said, everyone is different. We were brought up much less formal (and I don't think it is impolite). We used to have this Aunt drive 10 hours and show up unannounced on our doorstep with her German Shepard. I was a wee little one so I don't remember much... So, sometimes if I am out with the little tykes & bored stiff I might walk to a neighbors house unannounced just to say hi. If they don't answer and are home, I just assume they are busy or didn't hear the doorbell, no big deal.

It wouldn't bother me if someone came to my door unannounced. What bothers me a little bit more are those that say they are coming right over and an hour later still no sign (since my 4 year old will ask every 7 seconds when is X coming over...)

Become acquainted, then one can learn preferences of a neighbor. Not quite the same situation, but we received a big Honey Glazed Ham one Christmas from an oral surgeon to whom DH refers patients. We were nicely surprised and appreciated the gift very much. We are vegetarians, so DH gave it to his dental assistant (not re-gifted, he told her who gave it to us). They enjoyed the ham and so did we. No offence taken.

BTW, we never told the oral surgeon (so he would give us something we could use ourselves next Christmas).

There are always people walking my neighborhood with dogs and kids. Cannot work in the front yard productively because 2 or 3 will stop and chat. Have had plants left many times. A very friendly neighborhood in this respect and I appreciate each one traveling by.

I think people are far busier than used to be and their off time isn't talking over the fence as once was. This thread is a postive reminder for all to at least know who our neighbors are, remember kindness and give some small offer of help regardless of who they are, even if we do not know them or they treat us indiferently. It is nice to hear everyone's take on thier environments, along with the oddities.

It does elude me that not once has anyone ever offered to help me shovel snow when a foot shows up. I still do all necessary and hoping it continues. Although, if not for my grown kids, could probably go for days and no one would have a clue if I was still alive. Am in my late 60s and not everything is going to be perfect or happen overnight, but I do a darn good job at keeping my home well taken care of and love my yard.

I have a very friendly couple in their early 40s next door. But it took me a while to realize that the conversations were always started to end up complaining about some issue with me. One was about an old tree that was cut down in front with limbs/logs left until my son could help move them to a log pile in back. She was all chatty and then asked what/when I planned on doing something about them. Told her I had no clue at the moment, the way she talked didn't deserve an answer. There is never an offer of help, positive comment. So I stay away from her as much as possible, the conversations are totally lame and I always end up waiting for the catch.

re cotehele's ham story & neighbors, we laugh at this story from our past:

We bought a home in New Orleans in '88 (talk about knowing your neighbors, everybody was in and out of each other's homes -- we loved it). The Previous Owner moved down the block. At Christmas, a Collin Street Bakery fruitcake was delivered to our door for the PO. The PO neglected to notify Collin Street Bakery or the giver of his change of address. We walked the fruitcake down the block & delivered it to the PO's doorstep. No response from PO. For the next 4 years, the PO's fruitcake gets delivered to our house and we dutifully delivered it to the PO. In 4 years, never a response from the PO. On the 5th year, we figured the PO must not care about the fruitcake because he's never changed the delivery address, never shown any indication that he cared even. So we ATE the fruitcake (delicious!). Sure enough, a week later, the doorbell rings: it's the PO. "Where's my fruitcake?" he asks!

awm03, haha! I guess we never know, especially if folks never say 'thanks' (We did send a thank you note.)

Don't want to eat the bread because you think my house doesn't meet your cleanliness standards? Feed it to the birds.

Have high blood pressure and don't use salt? Toss it.

Don't/can't drink alcohol? Pass it on or pour it down the sink.

Dian57, I wouldn't take offense from it. There are just some people who will look to find fault in anything anyone does, and won't be happy until they do. Just look at the political scene! You just keep doing what you're doing, and God bless you for it.

This is a great thread and a great reminder for me to be thankful that I am close to all of my neighbors and forgiving of the things that have recently been driving me crazy about them! Being close to my neighbors is kind of like having a whole big, dysfunctional, extended family within spitting distance (we have tiny lots).

Yes, the people next door have loud parties outdoors until all hours, but she also rushed me to the hospital in an emergency once and is always good for a cup of sugar or an egg when I need one.

I'm a single mom and when we first moved here, I worked really long hours at my first law firm job. I would come home many (late) evenings to find all of the neighbors and their kids (and mine, with the babysitter) hanging outside, everyone's grills going, people spread out at a picnic table or three eating burgers. I would get out of my car and someone would hand me a burger and a beer. Can't beat that.

While I am the only single mom in the 'hood, there are two other women who have husbands who either travel a lot or work nights. We get together at least once per week, sometimes more, and pool our resources for dinner while the kids play.

From this group, I have formed a close network with 6 or 7 women. We go away for a weekend retreat every year, help with each others' kids, bring meals when people are sick, etc. And we all work full time outside the home - - this is not a relationship that can only be had by stay at home moms. I think the fact that we work full time makes it all the more important to have that network you can count on when juggling gets tough.

When I was recovering from surgery, two of my neighbors brought me dinner at the hospital, the others all came and either cleaned for me or brought food for the next several days. At one point I was having difficulty breathing (anesthesia reaction) and my doctor said to go to the ER. I called my best friend to ask if she or another friend could take me, and I kid you not, within 90 seconds one of them was flying through my front door. You don't get that kind of response time from EMS!

Another time, when DS was only 7, I was working at a firm 45 minutes away and a new babysitter missed meeting the camp bus to pick up my son. He neglected to call me, instead asking for a neighbor to help him look for my son (bus policy was to let the child off whether a parent was there or not). That neighbor called me at work instantly, which allowed me to get in touch with the bus company while the neighbor organized a search party. There were several elderly neighbors home, so they all went out looking for the next half hour, until the bus company called back to confirm that DS was, after all, still on the bus (the kind bus driver wouldn't let him off despite company policy).

These are only a few of hundreds of stories I could tell about us all helping each other in a pinch. I will also say that the emotional support we give each other through all of life's ups and downs is invaluable.

I would not have chosen all of these people to be friends with in other circumstances. We come from different backgrounds and have different interests. Frankly, very often we drive each other nuts with our differences of opinion or strong personalities. But living and, in some cases, raising our kids together has given us a sense of common purpose and understanding. If everything was to go to heck in a handbasket tomorrow, I couldn't choose a finer group of people to get through it with.

We are ones that are not close to our neighbors. We wave and stop to talk on occasion but don't usually invite anyone over. In the past, we had one incident with an alcoholic neighbor that wanted to pick a fight with us. Luckily we were renting at the time and could just move when the situation become too hostile. I don't ever want to be in a position again where I don't feel comfortable in my own home.

We have noticed that the neighbors that do get friendly usually have a one-sided relationship--one party becomes a "user." We have noticed our neighbor's children knocking on their "friends" door at 6:30 in the morning in their underwear. The friends then became responsible for someone else's child until the parents came around to look for him. The neighbors also use the "friend's" car everytime they need to take theirs to the shop even though they are a two car home. The neighbor routinely goes to get the "friend" when he needs home maintenance done because he apparently can't do even the simplest of tasks (like taping cardboard over a broken window). The list just goes on and on. I don't need friends like that. We'll wave and be friendly and discuss the weather, but don't use me as your free babysitter, free handyman, free mechanic, etc.

We also don't always share the same lifestyle. My immediate neighbors are a younger couple and frequently invited us over to their yard in the evenings for drinks. We are lightweights when it comes to drinking and really don't imbibe during the week because we'll fall asleep. After begging off over and over they finally stopped asking. We're still friendly and wave over the fence and exchange pleasantries, but I don't want to be anyone's daily drinking buddy.

And we are kind of anti-social--I'll admit it. Friendly, but anti-social. We did bring a bottle of wine to the young neighbors when they moved in after we saw they were drinkers.