Do you suspect someone went with a different nozzle somewhere during the life of the boiler, or are you having a heating issue? I'd stick with the .85 but you'd have to consult the mfg. about the angle and cone. Maybe markjames or baymee can be more help with that one. Flat tips on the electrodes with give you a spark but you'll get a nice sharper better directed spark with pointed electrodes. If you file them be careful you don't crack the electrodes. I use a bench grinder myself and just touch them up nice and easy. Whats more important then pointy tips is that the three dimensions that set the electrode tips in place are correct. What kind of burner do you have in that system?

mr.hvac thanks for the reply.

Not having heating issues, but would like to know how many btu's i'm getting out of it.
It's time to change the nozzle,fuel filter,check the electrode measurements and vacum the heck out of everything.

The burner is a (ABC) brand.

Thanks again

I found a formula for figuring out how many btu's you get out of a certain nozzle size. Correct me if i'm wrong.

You take you furnace btu rating (mine 110,000) and divide that by 1.44.

110,000 divided by 1.44 = .76

This is with a pump pressure of 100.

So with a .85 that"s in my furnace i'm at 125,000 btu's (roughly) in a 110,00 rated furnace.NOT GOOD IS THAT ?

I'm going to drop down to a .75 or maybe even a .65.

What do you think ?

Thanks,dobe

I think you had better check to see what your burner specs. plate says. You don't just stuff any nozzel in there you " think " will work. Oil burners are not as forgiving as gas. Which is good because it's pretty hard to fool with gas nozzels. If you under fire an oil burner you lower your stack temp. If you over fire your oil burner you raise the stack temp. and if not set properly you send most of your heat up the flue. You can under fire by 10% but never over fire. Electrods are supposed to be pointed. If they are flat replace them. Your formula is correct. your furnace should have a .75 G.P.H. your furnace is over fired with .85. If you guys are using #2
heating oil, and most of the U.S. does it is the same as
summer diesel and your pump pressure is too low. We haven't had #2 heating oil up here for 50 years. #1 oil is the colour of beer and as thick as whole milk. I think you had better call someone in. You ask too many questions. I
don't think you are qualified to "play" with oil burners.
DO NOT file your electrods, replace them. As HAVAC says you will change the 3 dimensions. Now your electodes are to short. Just my opinion. Good luck.

kalining
First off, thanks for you opinion.

1. Burner spec. plate gives me, name of burner,mod. # and the flow rate (.65-3.0 GPH.) So I could go with a nozzle from .65 to 3.0 depending on size of furnace.I'm not just stuffing a nozzle on it, that's why I asked this question in the first place.

2.#2 oil is what I use.

3.I get it about stack temps. and can only derate a furnace by 10%.I thought a .65 would be close for this.

4.OK, will replace electrodes.

5.Asking too many questions.I asked 3 questions,nozzle size and 2 about electrodes.

6.The last TECH. I called in put too big of a nozzle on my burner.I will not call them anymore.

Setting up a oil burner isnt that hard, you just have to know a few settings and have common sense.I feel I could do a better job than the last 3 TECH'S did.I came her just to find out a few things I did'nt know.

Thanks for your opinion and help,dobe

what everyone said is good advice....the proper way, especially with oil burners is to use a combustion flue gas analyzer,and draft gage, and thermometer..do you have one? low stack temps are bad ,due to condensation in the boiler and the flue.downfiring 10 percent is a good rule of thumb,but just because you downsize nozzle,what are you trying to acoomplish? with less btu input at burner into the boiler,you still have the same mass(amount of water) to heat.so,you might not gain alot because with the downsized nozzle it could cause LONGER RUNTIMES..and possibly not gain alot of savings in oil use if that is what you are looking for..

Good point seabee570. If by dropping down the GPH you're increasing the burner run time you haven't acomplished much of anything. Dobe, you seem to have more knowledge then the average person about an oil burner so I see no harm in your trying what you are. Whats the worse that can happen,, watching your boiler dance around the basement floor and belching out smoke from every tiny opening? LOL Its alot easier with the proper tools like a combustion analyzer. Just know when to throw in the towell if things go wrong. Some burners are very touchy. Quite honestly I never heard of an ABC brand. The proper procedure is to clean and vac the boiler first then set up the burner. By cleaning it, providing it wasn't to dirty, you can assume the settings are OK, but if you don't clean it and try to set up the burner this can change things. This is just my personnal opinion but if its not either a Beckett or a Carlin its an inferior burner.

actually by lowering firing rate and increasing run times you will usually increase overall heating efficiency; the danger of course is stack temps that are too low, but this is rarely a problem with oil even if you derate a bit. I've seen some ABC burners and the ones that i've played with seemed pretty decent. If your baro damper is level and plumb, the draft settings should be pretty close to the markings on it, so no need to use a manometer. flue gas anylizers are overrated, best OVERALL system efficiency is actually occuring with the burner running slightly richer than where most tech's put it according to the flue gas anylizer, but before the smokepoint; this is due to longer gas residence times in the boiler allowing better heat transfer than any slight decrease in combustion efficiency. there were some very conclusive tests done a few years ago that showed this, they were controversial because while obtaining greater efficiency and lowering very slightly nox emissions, it increased hydrocarbon and particulate emissions. basically what i'm saying, (but getting a bit off topic) is that a burner can still be adjusted visually and still have good overall system efficiency.

increasing overall heating efficiency does not mean that he would not have extended run-times, and thus end up spending more for oil...that is the bottom line...like I said you have to consider that the mass and water in the system is still the same ,so if you go too low,it is still gonna take longer to raise the water temps,thus using more oil.might be better off looking at outdoor reset...to save oil

no, overall efficiency MEANS that even with longer run times, OVERALL his efficiency would be higher, and thus SAVE money.

Chime in and correct me if im wrong but i don't see the point. If the gentleman has a smaller nozzel and longer run times you get X amount of heat. You have a larger nozzel you get X amount of heat with a shorter run
time. Unless i miss my guess he is only concerned about oil
consumption. Does this make any sense ? I thought it did when i first posted. Not too sure now. It's -46F with a
-58F wind chill. Not thinking very well and not too bloody
happy. The glass exploded in the aluminum door when the
wall and frame shifted due to the cold and when the old
lady unplugged the car the extention cord snapped in half
blowing out the breaker and welding the plug end to the
car's block heater cord. Then the car's " bear claw " door
latches froze open and the doors wouldn't shut. Nice morning. No, i didn't have to put my words in a frying pan
to thaw them out so the old lady could hear me yelling at
her.

"Chime in and correct me if im wrong but i don't see the point. If the gentleman has a smaller nozzel and longer run times you get X amount of heat."

yes, and you're probably wondering where does higher efficiency come in? something has to give??

well, it does, the EGT exhaust gas temp of the boiler or furnace will decrease GREATER than linear decrease from firing at a lower rate. perhaps i'm not explaining this well enough; you get a sizable drop in VOLUME of exhaust gasses due primarily to lower firing rate + cooler exhaust gasses don't take up as much space- they've cooled and reduced their volume while in the heat exchanger, more than they would have at a higher firing rate because of longer residence times; partly because of this they are reduced in temp as well, so sometimes this cannot be reduced too much without reducing EGT's below a temp that allowes condensation in the stack. One can reduce the EGT's considerably if the appliance is firing into an interior stack, but not much if firing into an exterior stack.

Before you do an efficiency test you should let a burner run for about 10 minutes to settle out. That comes right from the instructions in a Bachrach kit. With that said I can't see where running a system longer is going to increase efficiency. Every manufacturer strongly recommends setting up their burners by instrument so anyone here who says you can still set up a burner by eye,,,,well that person doesn't hold much credibility with me. And by just ensuring a barometric is level will give you the proper draft reading. No, I don't by that at all. this sounds like the preachings of someone who still lives by the old school of thought. It just doesn't work that way anymore. Invest in some proper tools!

I'm just trying to get the best efficency out of this old boiler.
I don't have any analizers or meters for this,I have a thermometer somewhere though.
I vacumed it out (evrything) ,replaced electrodes,nozzle (.75) and fuel filter.
Cleaned out air intake and squirrel cage on motor.

What I found:

Electrodes were rounded (blunt) but setting were good.No cracks in porcelin, but they were sooty.

Air intake was very dirty inside, but squirrel cage was pretty clean.Now you can really here it suck in the air when it runs.
Air tubes were clogged halfway shut with soot.On top of furnace (inside)was about an inch of soot.In the center where it goes up the flue pipe (T pipe) was about 4 inches of soot.Horizontal flue pipe had about half inch of soot all around inside to the chimney.

Firebox and chimney looked good not hardly any soot on the bottom.

I'm going to call somebody in now WITH ANALIZERS AND THE RIGHT TOOLS to set it up right.I did all I could do without these tools.

It use to rumble when it started up once in awhile.It does not do that anymore.

I thank you all for the help I got.I feel better about what I did now.

THANKS, dobe

Thats the best thing to do dobe. You will easily save the amount you paid to have the burner set up properly and probably more. Without mentioning any names did someone in the forum mention you can still set up a burner by eye? OK, given what we know from the last post please tell me if you think his smoke is,,trace,1,2,3 or higher. Each number up is soot buildup in the flue passages, longer run time, "with a smaller nozzle to boot" and money up the chimney! Without proper tools its a half assed job.

perhaps i should clairfy; if you know what you're doing you can still set them by eye, but it requires a damn good understanding of combustion and the equiptment, not something most "Tech's" will ever understand or care about including some on this forum. I've done it, tested it, and not had to readjust, so it would seem that I can; If others can't (w/out mentioning any names) then perhaps it's smart that they set it up every time using instraments. btw, i wasn't talking about the original poster here, if he's not sure, probably best to have someone else do it.

berlin, you think pretty highly of yourself, I think you're full of crap. Just in the past five years alone I've had training or refresher training on Carlin, Beckett, Cleaver Brooks and System 2000. All of them strees the importance of proper set up using instruments. Cleaver Brooks and System 2000 is impossible any other way. I suppose they're wrong too. Go back to the fireplace forum and leave this forum to the people who invest in training and care about doing things right. You serve no purpose to anyone here with your off the wall answers.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match on qualifications or any of that nonsense with you or anyone on this forum. One is free to believe whatever they wish to believe based on knowlege that is available to them. There is no need for the personal attacks that you have initiated, it's low and embarassing.

Call it beginners' luck. I was able to adjust a Beckett gun by eye. My Crown furnace has a decent sight glass - probably mica - so the flame's easy to see. I simply closed the air shutter until I saw some smoke, then opened it back a bit 'til it went away. If the furnace used a trap door to view the flame, I would not have been able to do this. That's because closing the door would change the airflow - and adjustments made with the door open would change, as well.

A good calibrated barometric damper was used in the flue. It was easy to set draft to the 0.02 WC recommended by Crown. I just lined up the weight to the .02 mark. Yes...Crown recommends also that draft should be taken from the overfire port for better accuracy. However, I had no instrument to do this.

Even though the furnace appeared to run well after my initial "adjustments" I had still three good reasons to hire a pro to finish the job...

- peace of mind

- Crown warranty

- the local building inspector said so

A licensed tech came in a few days later to inspect my work and make any adjustments. Oil pressure was right on (I'm sure the factory took care of that, so no surprise). What did surprise me, however, was that both air shutter and draft were "very close" to what they should be. He mentioned also that the install itself was very "neat". When I told him it took me four weekends to do it all, he laughed and told me to keep my day job as an engineer.

Funny...I never told him what I did for a living.

Peace.

Marco

Perhaps it was your pocket protector loaded with pens that gave you away.

;-)

"There is no need for the personal attacks that you have initiated, it's low and embarassing."
Then don't come into the forum bragging about how well you know combustion theory, how you can set up a burner by eye and all that other BS. Either help out the people posting questions or be quiet.