One of the first things I'd ensure is that the units are sized properly. This is done through a "Manual J" load calculation. Ask your contractor how he arrived at his sizing. It doesn't seem out of the ordinary but I'd want to be sure.

Those air handlers ("blowers" in your quote) are not variable speed, which may or may not be a big deal for you. A variable speed air handler helps with air circulation if you leave it on low 24/7, helps humidity by running at a lower speed, and adds to the efficiency of the system as a whole.

Those condensers use R-22 refrigerant, which is being phased out as it depletes the ozone. Ask your contractor about XC13 condensers, which use R-410a.

What type of ductwork is included? Make sure you aren't getting an all flex duct system. I'd want at least metal trunk lines with flex connectors.

The price looks decent, but make sure you know what you're getting.

cathi

Obviously this is an expensive home. I would not have a conventional air handler-I would suggest the matching var speed model for better comfort and little noise.

The AC13 condenser is OK but if noise is a factor, look at the XC14 model.

What are you doing about heat for this home?

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: Lennox Residential

Cathi, The best way to determine a "Good quote" is to get several estimates. You could make a copy of the estimate you have, use a black marker and mask all the prices. Show that list of equipment/estimate to the next guy and say you want an estimate for complete operating system(s), based on the quality of this equipment. By masking the prices you are making it fair to all parties to bid the work. Anyone can underbid someone else if they know what price to bid, they will just give you lower quality work/materials. As labor and materials cost vary across the country, this is a good way to determine prices in your area.

Additionally;

"IF IT ISN'T IN WRITING, IT'S NOT IN THE CONTRACT!!!"

If you are not seeing something you asked for in a bid, make sure it is writing. A contractors "Word" is not a legal binding contract in a court of law, and thats where you might end up if it isn't in writing. If you want a specific programmable thermostat write down the exact manufacturer and model number, not just "A programmable thermostat".

Hope this helps,

Dan Martyn

hi

hmmm...big home --absolutely....trying soooo hard not to make it expensive. we are just not in that financial position.

we are doing conventional hot water/baseboard (gas) for heat. i didn't want forced hot air since i've been told it stresses the ducts and it is "dry heat" and it isn't comfortable when it is on (blowing). All the flooring- except the baths and laundry room are going to be hardwood, so we are not doing radiant heat. i really don't mind baseboard except for the space it steals from the room/walls. i asked about a hydronic system, but noone has been too enthusiastic about it- again it's blowing warmed air and with all our allergies, i've been told it's not a good idea.

i have asked the AC contractor for a price for XC13's and XC 15's. I didn't see XC14 on the website. I also asked for a price for the UV lights (again).

which air handler models have the variable speed?
which ductwork is "best"?

i welcome all comments and critisicms! thanks!

speaking of programmable thermostats.....

anyone have any reccommendations?

Here is the XC14: http://www.lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=XC14

I believe it's a bit quieter than the XC13. The XC15 is supposed to be very quiet. Anyone of these will be fine in my opinion.

Where are you located? I ask because some areas have a higher payback rate on the higher SEER equipment.

For R-22, the CB31MV is the variable speed air handler. For R-410a (which I suggest), the CBX32MV is the variable speed air handler.

The "best" ductwork setup would be all metal, but financially that is not always possible. I wouldn't mind an all-metal trunk line setup (which are basically the main runs) with flexible duct (cheaper) attached to it leading to the ducts. All flexible duct in the attic just becomes a mess.

For programmable thermostats, I really like the Honeywell VisionPRO 8000 series. The TH8320 should be a good one for you. They are high end thermostats and look very much like this: http://www.lennox.com/products/overview.asp?model=ComfortSense%205000

wow! you are quite knowledgeable!

we are on long island---south shore- babylon village-- but not on the water. there is a pond at the end of our block. the front of the house faces south.

any thoughts on the uv light?

any thoughts on the space gard 2200 media air cleaner that is included with my quote?

thanks!

i would use heat pumps. you could save a lot of money by not having to pay for a baseboard system.

The 2200 is a good filter. I'm not sold on the whole UV lights idea yet and haven't researched it much, but they may very well be beneficial to stop mold buildup on the coil. Good luck with this major decision.

Lennox has a nice UV and Filter system thats combined in one cabinet,
Spacegard media filter is good but the best is the spacegard 5000 it uses the media along with electronic air cleaning at over 99% effiency remember the media needs to be replaced every 4 to 12 months depends on usage.
Also with allergy problems go go go with the ECM style variable speed air handlers so you can run them 24/7 to keep the air clean, also if the house will be built very tightly (no air infiltration) than look at an air recovery unit on one system

I'm going into year two with a UV-Air Bear filter system in my Carrier. I do think the UV makes a difference.

About the UV lights, I have been using a system in my home for the past 5 yrs. My wife had bad allergies and I am an HVAC Tech. and business owner. I put a lot of research into the UV applications and I found one that I use, and it works wonderful. There are a lot of gimmicks out there so do the research before you buy. But check out the Guardian Air by RGF Environmental Group. It is one of the best for the money. If you need more info. I will send you some if you request, and do go with the R410A refrigerants on you new systems, you had some good advice from the posters.

wow, you guys are great--a real wealth of info!

anyone know an approx. cost difference between the CB30M blowers i was quoted and the variable speed cb31 or cbx32 blowers?
how about the AC13 condensers vs. XC13 or XC15?

i saw the "original air probe sanitizer" which uses uv-c (www.negativeiongenerators.com) and i thought this looked good to me. i'll check out the guardian air.

thanks again to everyone!

It's hard to know a certain dealer's pricing difference, due to various overhead, distributer pricing, etc. If I had to guess, to upgrade to the variable speed air handlers, each one would be give or take $1k (it could be around $700 or it could be around $1200)). For the condensers, probably about the same, but I'd ask your dealer for actual pricing.

Cathi, don't be afraid to get one or two more quotes. It's always good to have more than one opinion and more than one option with a major investment like this. Maybe you'll find a Carrier or Trane dealer in your area.

cathie,

I think a price of $750 for each var spd air handler would be a fair price and definitely negotiable for three units.

Also,something to consider is a heat pump condenser for those days when baseboard hot water heat would be overkill. You might want to analyze your energy costs here-nat gas and electric. You need a thorough understanding of your rates and efficiency for each system.

And finally, on system 1 and 2, it would seem to be a perfect opportunity to zone these two areas with zoning controls and just have one properly sized system rather than two.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: Fuel Comparison Calculator

ok.....

my original quote was for 3 zones, AC 13's with single speed handlers and space gard 2200 air cleaners for $21600.

now quoted....for 3 zones

to go to XC13's instead of AC13's increases price to $22500. this is still with the single speed handlers in the 1st post. (adds $900 to original price)

to go to XC14's with variable speed handlers (CBX32MV) would be $24000. (so $2400 more than original quote) But AC guy mentioned that these are only even spaced, so the master BR would not be matched well here.

to go to XC15's with variable speed handlers (CBX32MV) would be $25300. ($1300 more than XC14's above)

AND to change air cleaner to MERV 16 is the same price as space gard 2200.
and to add HCHV 500 UV light system to the 3 zones would be $1000 additional.

so the AC13's, single speed handlers (R-22) with UV lights and air filter system was $21600 plus $1000 = $22600.

the XC15's, variable speed handlers (R410a), UV lights and air filter system is $26,300.

difference is $3700 for the variable speed handlers and XC15's.

any comments as to which direction i should go with?

thanks!

oops, just spoke to the ac guy again. the XC 13's can't be used because of the sizing of the master BR zone. so if i want the variable speed handlers, then i have to choose between the XC14's and XC15's. their difference being $1300. XC14 package is $25,000, XC15 package is $26,300.

is $1300 necessary to spend for the XC15's? the db rating on the XC14 is 70db, and is 64db on the XC15. so "how much quieter" is 6 less db? would i even know?

thanks!

cathi

The XC14 paired with matching var spd air handlers is a solid choice.

To upgrade further to the XC15 would marginally improve efficiency-the major difference would be superior noise reduction.

You have to make the decision on the UV lights. Personally, I think a good quality media cabinet is more than sufficient for most people. I realize there are some people with medical conditions that might benefit from EACs and UV lights. I suggest your dealer explain the maintenance requirements and recommended filter changes with associated costs of whatever system you consider.

BTW, what type control or thermostat does dealer recommend?

I would also ask dealer about an upgrade from the XC14 AX to the XC14 heat pump.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: Lennox Residential Products

I believe you have fairly high electric prices in NY state. What are your electric rates? For example, I pay 12.5 cents per kw-hr delivered in Baltimore.

The XC13's look to be 11.5 EER and 13.5 SEER with the air handler model numbers provided. Your true cooling costs are determined by EER (Energy Efficiency Ratio) and not SEER.

The XC14 and XC15 use air handlers with different model numbers. Their efficiency numbers look to be between 12 and 13 EER, and 14 to 15 SEER. Need air handler model#s to provide better info.

"the db rating on the XC14 is 70db, and is 64db on the XC15. so "how much quieter" is 6 less db? would i even know?"
- These readings are for the outdoor unit (condenser) only. If these units are away from the bedrooms, you won't notice any sound. Variable speed air handlers (indoor unit) are much quieter than their fixed speed cousins.

"hmmm...big home --absolutely....trying soooo hard not to make it expensive. we are just not in that financial position."
- 5000 sq ft home on Long Island NY is expensive and you sure better be in "that" financial position (sorry to be so straight-forward). You are easily north of $1.25 million for that home. $25k for a/c only. The heating system is how much additional?.

FYI, the best thing you can do is insulate your new home the best possible: 2x6 construction, extra insulation in the attic, quality windows, etc.

Who did a heat gain/loss calc (called a Manual J) to size the heating/cooling systems?

Best to you.

got ANOTHER AC QUOTE....

this is for a rheem system....the seer 14's with 410a and ECM handlers (don't have the model numbers), uv lights and a space gard 2200, plus attic fan and honeywell 8000 series thermostats. sized differently than the lennox only in the master br--this ac guy wants to use 2 ton (instaed of 1.5 ton that the lennox gy quoted me).

using r-8 flex ducting, wrapped inside and outside with metal trunklines and flex connectors. also using a 4-ton blower (for the first floor?)

quote was $25800.

lennox quote was $25000---no attic fan, "programmable thermostats" (maybe the same as the rheem guy, maybe not!), also using uv lights,space gard 2200, with variable speed handlers and seer 14 units...master br sized at 1.5 tons.

which is a better quote price wise?

which is a better system...lennox or rheem?

thanks for the help!!!!!

The prices are comparable. I'd be more concerned with why the Rheem guy wants to use a 2-ton for a single bedroom rather than which brand to choose. How many square feet is the bedroom? 2-tons is a lot of cooling for one room in my opinion. I'd be curious to know how many registers/returns he wants for that room.

The VisionPRO thermostats are nice.

The posters below have very good advice in variable speed blowers in the air handlers, as far as the UV lights and the space guard filter systems, Have the contractor allow for the FC40R Honeywell filter to be used in the Return Air Grills, this is a 4 inch filter like the space guard, but you can change them very easy, versus mounted somewhere in the duct work and not very accessable. The UV situation is different, you stated you have allergies and you are building a new home. There is what are called V.O.C.'s Volitale Organic Compounds and chemical odors, these also excite allergies and most UV won't help. A couple will and you install these into the blower circuitry to come on with the blower. These produce among other things Hydro Peroxides that kill everything, bacteria, viruses, molds, mildews, smoke and odors, and the dreaded dust mite that gies us allergy people a hard road to climb. This is something our space research developed. One is Guardian Air by RGF Environmental Technology, and the 2nd is Duct WoRX by Ecoquest International. I prefer the Guardian Air. I have used both. Around $400.00, Do some research and your allergies are history. I have a little on my blog at Live Journal and can offer some links if they are needed. Wish you well.

please have your ac guys do a heat load calculation ma make a big difference in size of units and comfort level for you and your family, also do consider the heat pump systems

Cathi, have you made a decision? Hope the house is going well.

hi
i went with lennox.....

XC14 condensers (R-410A)with CBX32MV variable speed handlers:

zone 1 is 1.5 ton system, XC14-018 for master BR/Master bath and 2 WIC's (blower is CBX32MV-018/024)

zone 2 is 2.5 ton system, XC14-030 for rest of 2nd floor (blower is CBX32MV-24/30)

zone 3 is 3 ton system, XC14-036 for 1st floor (blower is CBX32MV-036)

All 3 zones will have pure air filter systems (instead of just the merv 16 systemin original quote)..2 are PCO16-28, 1 is a PCO20-28.

All 3 zones will have duct mounted, dual lamped UV lights...CVC500's.

All 3 zones will have vision pro 8000 thermostats or lennox comfortsense 7000 thermostats (like the honeywell IAQ's)--my choice.

All ductwork R-8 flex ducting,metal trunklines,metal flex connectors in every place possible, 3"thick insulation.

according to AC engineer....
zone 1, Master BR size is approx 921sf
zone 2, rest of 2nd floor is approx 1640sf
zone 3, 1st floor is approx 2077sf

on plans, heated/AC'd 1st floor measures 2175sf
2nd floor measures 2637sf (AC engineer has 2581sf total for 2nd floor)....don't know why the discrepency.

i have a "history" with this AC company. they did the AC in my last house and i thought they did a nice job. the owner- who does the price quoting- had a manual j done by an engineer to make sure the units were properly sized.

as always...any comments are appreciated!

Good choice--nice systems. I see you're not considering heat pumps. Do you have a source of heat (sorry if this has been answered)? Heat pumps are an economical choice for heating and cooling but would likely add to the cost upfront. The VisionPRO IAQ thermostats are nice.

Question by Ryan:
"Do you have a source of heat (sorry if this has been answered)?"

Answer by OP:
"we are doing conventional hot water/baseboard (gas) for heat. i didn't want forced hot air since i've been told it stresses the ducts and it is "dry heat" and it isn't comfortable when it is on (blowing). All the flooring- except the baths and laundry room are going to be hardwood, so we are not doing radiant heat. i really don't mind baseboard except for the space it steals from the room/walls. i asked about a hydronic system, but noone has been too enthusiastic about it- again it's blowing warmed air and with all our allergies, i've been told it's not a good idea."

For $25k for 3 conventional a/c systems, plus the additional cost of the heating equipment, I wonder if she looked into geothermal systems?

When is the housewarming party?

Best to you.