And why does this seem like a good thing to share here?

Just askin'...

There are threads in Hot Topics for this particular subject.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hottopics/msg0618522728959.html?2

Here is a link that might be useful: Hot

And why does this seem like a good thing to share here?

Just askin'...

Because of all the mothers of other little girls that read here...

It reminds us that no child is safe.

I hadn't heard about this and might have missed it if you hadn't posted it here. What an awful thing for a little girl to have to go through. I have an 11 yr old granddaughter that I worry about.

Goes to show how vunerable our kids are.

I hadn't heard either. That's AWFUL. That poor child.

Honestly, I don't mind these topics here (can't remember what the other one was that someone questioned recently). This is *conversations*. I never go to the Hot Topics board and probably others that read here don't, so I don't see a problem. Provided we don't get too hot-headed that is. LOL

tina

It doesn't bother me that it's here either but it's preaching to the choir.

I didn't open this thread for days, but until I open the thread, it just doesn't seem to go away on my computer. I'm a kid rescuer. I have dealt with kid's trauma on a daily basis. Just not here, please. This is my down time. No offense meant or taken.

'... Just not here, please.' Yes, I agree! I'm sure roselvr had only the very best of intentions, but I cannot come over here without seeing that horrible posts title each time...like having to drive by an awful car crash each time you drive to work. Thank you, roselvr for your heart being in the very right place, but let's make this one go away, please.

When posted last night, I was still pretty upset about it. I originally heard about this late Thursday; came home & googled but couldn't find it. I looked again Friday & Saturday, still not finding it. It was yesterday when we got our newspaper that I did find it. I had no clue what state it happened in until yesterday. I posted because I didn't know if anyone else had heard.

My daughter is 15, I have a ex neighbor that I am still very close to that has a daughter this age. When I think of how young she is, and how she still looks under 10 that it makes me realize just how sick people are.

I did not post this to start a debate on what happened to the person that was beaten for this; it's even rare that I do make topics here and when I do, it is usually something I think the other mothers here would be interested in like the Gardasil vaccine. The thread is titled as such so that anyone not interested in opening it, doesn't have to. I did that for that reason.

There have been posts here about other kids kidnapped or killed; I don't recall people being as upset about those as this.

It is upsetting to me when things like death or rape happen; especially to kids; small, innocent kids who have never hurt anyone.

I didn't open this thread for days,

If you look, it hasn't been here for days..
I posted yesterday Sun, Jun 7, 09 at 17:49 - which is almost 6 pm EST. It hasn't been here 24 hours and I will ask that it be removed.

Am I ever sorry I even posted this. :(

roselvr, please don't feel badly. We should all know you had the very best of intentions for posting. It's just that the title is so harsh and heart-breaking to see. I did not really read the post, actually. I just wanted it to go down the line.
My Gd getting close to that age and the identifying thing is always there...as it was for you.
No debate! Hmmm, how do ya make those huggy signs...
(( roselvr)), I think.

I haven't read the story. At this time, I don't want to read the story. However, I don't find anything wrong with what you did in sharing it here, Roselvr. Those who want to read it can do so; those who aren't up to it certainly also have the option not to click. My goodness ... are we really that sensitive that seeing the subject of her post is offensive?

I think we should be careful about attempting to police one another when a topic isn't otherwise "forbidden" by the powers that be.

Haven't opened the link, but I understand when something affects you emotionally and the need to share.

No one is forcing anyone to open any thread, let alone read it. And FWIW, posting on a thread you don't want to see only brings it back to the top.

Yep, AJ, I am that sensitive to the title of the post. It's not offensive. It's heartbreakingly stomach churning. I'd prefer not to see it.

'....posting on a thread you don't want to see only brings it back to the top.' Yikes! natal, I must've had forum dyslexia on that one!

I'm sorry that it disturbs you so much, but I must stand by what I said above. This is an open forum in which we're free to discuss any and all topics unless otherwise forbidden, and I hope it stays that way.

I agree with Auntjen. I am sure the topic is upsetting for some, it IS an upsetting topic. It's also a fact of life that these things go on. If I saw a topic and it bothered me, I would just avoid it.

To not allow posts because it might upset someone, well that could be almost ANY topic. I don't want to see things censored here.

And Roselvr - please don't think you shouldn't have posted this.

tina

I agree. I was confused as to why this was considered a hot topic. That Rose was disturbed by this and wanted to share or discuss is simply one reason people come over here. There are lots of sad or upsetting posts, or opinions, on this side of the board, about a wide variety of subjects or situations. So, I'm afraid I don't understand the need to refrain from subject matter either, other than politics or religion, which are too hot to even touch lightly and, so, are designated for the Hot Topics board only.

You did nothing you should feel bad about, Rose.

It's so unbearable to think about. I try to avoid the specifics and delving too far into this story as it's all that's been on the news since it happened.

To think that he'd only been out of jail for 6mo. for raping another young girl and them this? Only 6 mo's?! His family has even stated that he just nds. locked up.

He'll get his own. That's pretty much all that I can say about it. He'll get his own.

You know, one thing that disturbs me almost as much as the rape itself is the self-righteous extreme vigilante justice. Just suppose the person had *not* been the exact perpetrator, but someone who looked a lot like him. Even suppose he has an identical twin, just for the sake of argument. The possibilities are truly frightening.

Leah, not sure what that means, but I was referring to golddust's post.

I didn't read the actual articles, either, but I was also horrified at how they beat some guy up in raw anger. What if this wasn't the right guy? Happens too frequently. Pretty scarey, the hotheads that are around.

Something was on tv last night. A young boy was riding his bicycle down the street and 'six' other kids decided they wanted to beat him up. So badly that he died. Someone also just told me that the rate of animal torture is actually extremely high.

It all speaks volumes about the condition of our society.

roselvr, you did nothing wrong, your emotions were riding high and you wanted to share, this is what this place is for. I understand the spirit in which you posted this, once in a while something will touch us more than another event.

I agree with auntjen, we can't start deciding/censoring what can be posted or not, specially in conversations.

I suppose that if the original post had included some mention of our daughters, their safety, how the world is changing, how we worry, what we can do about it, etc...it would have seemed less like just sharing some terribly ugly news. The crimes are horrendous, but I also find fault with the media who spread it far and wide in the name of sales and ratings. Seeing this post just felt like "more of the same" initially.

I am not saying that it's wrong to post those kinds of things here...just hoping that there is a positive purpose behind it, like the Gardasil thread which I read with great interest.

Obviously, the post has sparked some intelligent and perhaps useful conversation. So, I am sorry if I appeared to call you out on this one Roselvr. Wasn't my intention so much as I wanted to know why we would benefit from knowing this horrendous thing happened. My life is no better for it and I won't take any more care of my daughter than I already do...

At the risk of sounding like a real weirdo, I believe in spreading the light, not the dark.

Rose, I can understand why you would want to come here to talk about this horrific crime. It *is* so disturbing & it's only natural to reach out to others to help process this kind of tragedy. It's hard to learn of something this dreadful & then just go about your business.

I know everyone here cares about this little girl. We can hold her in our hearts and pray that she recovers physically & emotionally & is surrounded by all the love, care & support that she needs.

Look, I'm not for vigilante justice, but there was NO DOUBT in anybody's mind as to who it was (and again, I AM NOT justifying beating the guy up) so it's not like they were going after the wrong guy.

He is known in the neighborhood for raping girls.

If I recall correctly he spoke about it during his drunkeness that night, as he often 'bragged' about what he did.

Raping little girls is his past history (and his future if he's not jailed forever). It what he was put away for prior and everyone knew. His own family didn't even think he belonged out on the streets.

He is extremely distinctive looking.

As soon as the sketch was posted everybody knew who it was and they went after him. BTW it was 2 people (again - no justification for vigilante justice) not a whole mob.

Thanks, Stinky....I will hold this little girl, and all those who love her, in prayer. I appreciate your inspiring something positive in me.

Well, I guess that's why one needs to read the articles. I'm not gonna be too worried about him then.

Some people are just not fit for society. I hope they throw away the key this time. Or, better yet, let the Inmates take care of him.

"BTW it was 2 people (again - no justification for vigilante justice) not a whole mob."

No.

It was a mob. Watch the video. It looks like about 20 people pummeling and beating the guy.

The news reports are already changing their version of the even from *flash mob* to *citizens arrest*. It is amazing how newspapers can change the spin on things to fit what people want to hear.

Some of the news reports are cutting the video right after the first two guys start roughing up the suspect and do not show the out of control mob that ensued. "Edited" is how we get our news!

"Raping little girls is his past history (and his future if he's not jailed forever). It what he was put away for prior and everyone knew."

The news reports I read said he was recently released from prison on drug charges.

Carrasquillo is 26y/o. I don't believe he has a 'history of raping little girls' or he would definately still be in prison. If he had had prior sex crime convictions they would be in the news.

-------

The investigation that is going on right now looks like it has a lot of evidence, and possibly enough to press charges against Caarrasquillo. Lets at least hope they got the right man. Vigilante justice does not always turn out that way. Sometimes they finger the wrong man. Sometimes even though they finger the right one the mob mentality takes over and then you got a lynching.

what surprised me seeing the interview of one of the men who is going to split the reward is that he looks a lot like the suspect. It could have been him being beaten.

There are threads in Hot Topics for this particular subject.

He actually got that from me as he posts to a computer forum I go to. Someone posted about the 13 year old boy that was raped by other teen boys; (more heartbreak) I asked if anyone there had heard this since there are people in my area that go there. As I said, I tried googling to find it and couldn't. What I heard on the talk radio that day upset me a lot. ttodd has probably heard the things I heard on the radio that day (plus more it seems) as well since she is from the area.

Amy, you are right, I should have posted more; we all know that when I get going and am having a good back day that I can type a lot. I haven't been doing well physically; I was made to take generic pain medications for the last month due to hubby's insurance changing. I pay for a 2nd script plan through Medicare and that would not cover any of my meds either. Since February I've been paying 100% - to the tune of $900 to $1,500 depending on what needs to be filled. They didn't even want to cover the generic percocet (couldn't afford brand any longer) last month, my local CVS managed to cover it under their in-house plan. So pain wise, I haven't been ok. 5 months later I finally managed to appeal, I was able to get meds Friday but it will be a while before the extra new pain goes away (if it does). Anyway.. normally I don't post about my personal life here. I was wrong to even make the post last night due to the shape I was in. I know better.

As I mentioned above, I did post elsewhere; that was to update what I asked the other day but didn't really read the story until I sat down to dinner last night. I was wiped and in major pain. My hubby & I haven't been doing well due to my back so I couldn't talk to him. A bunch of guys on a computer forum also don't give the kind of conversation or understanding as a forum with mostly women.

I guess after reading the story about the boys, then this, I was just so disgusted, after actually finding the story.. and my heart went out to the family after reading about how one store donated a large bed so that this little girl could sleep with her mother.. thinking about how little she is; I was upset.

I don't read or watch the news because it's too upsetting.
I wish I didn't hear about this that day on the radio or know about the other one I mentioned.

The world is getting to be a really bad place. I can't imagine how it will be when my kids give me grandchildren.

Carrasquillo is 26y/o. I don't believe he has a 'history of raping little girls' or he would definately still be in prison. If he had had prior sex crime convictions they would be in the news.

It depends on what you are reading. He apparently did rape another teen I think they did not press charges or something like that. In yesterdays local (Philly) Sunday paper there was a large article. He lost his eyeglasses at the scene or something like that.

I also hope they have the right man because if they don't then we have 2 victims.

Very upsetting.

The 11y/o girl's father has now come forth and publicly apologized to Zemquist(sp?) who was also beaten by a mob who thought HE was the rapist of the 11y/o. Click below to see a video of his injuries by a mob who got out of control and beat him in a vigilante justice mind think. How many people were they going to beat until they found the right one? This is the problem with sudden spur of the moment, thoughtless vigilante justice. Two different men were beaten by mobs. One guy is innocent. The other will probably be charged and tried.

The news reports of his beating barely made the news this morning and it took me a while to find one of the articles again.

Vigilante justice is a crap shoot. You might get the right guy, and then again you might not.

Also in the news article linked below is a video showing more of the out of control mob scene of Carrasquillo's beat down.

Here is a link that might be useful: Videos click them.

Well I watched the video again Dilly and I def. saw 2, poss. 3 people beat him. Indeed it was a mob scene but it appears (at least to me) that it was just that - a mob scene. Not everyone in the mob was beating him.

I stand corrected on what he was in prison for prior. He is the suspect in 2 other rapes and another charge was dropped (for reasons I don't know - from what I understand of the area it would be fear). Now - those are the only ones that came forward and then sort of 'went away'. I know for a fact that there are more and some are young. Some have already talked, most are terrified. So yes, Dilly, he does have a history. At 26 he also has 17 prior arrests.

I believe it was that same day that he approached another 11 yr. old girl but she screamed and he went away.

I just pray that the charges stick.

I think that it sends a horrible, horrible message that theu would ever give a reward to any of the men that beat Carrasquillo regardless of what he did. It was wrong for them to beat him, it was wrong to reward them. Charges should and need to be pressed against them.

Where did you get your info from ttodd???

There's a 26yo J.C. in the pa court system for quite a bit of trouble, maybe 10 entries. Looks like a lot were not actual convictions, though I didn't pay close attention. There was an attempted rape back in 2002 but it was dismissed. That is one completely irresponsible, mindless deadbeat who's been in trouble with the law far too many times, for a heap of things -- burglary, assault, drugs, attempted rape, resisting arrest, escape ...

If it is the same guy and he is guilty of this crime, hopefully they'll just lock the soul-less shell of a man up for good this time to keep him off the streets.

Some TV, bits and pieces on-line and then confirmation and more at work.

He just really nds. to go away forever.

I just thought maybe you, or someone you know, knew people in his neighborhood or something.

Yes, let's not have another Jessica Lunsford, killed by a pedaphile who was just released and who then escalated to murder when he was through with her, hoping to shut her up so he wouldn't get sent back to prison. They are known to be repeat offenders and very rarely can be reformed, behavior-wise.

The other man subject to a beatdown by an angry mob who had decided they had the rapist identified, was named Michael Zenquis.

"I kept yelling, I'm innocent, I didn't do anything, I don't know what's going on," Zenquis said. "They were just calling me, 'Rapist! You deserve to die!' They were saying, 'Kill him, kill him!', and it was just too much.""

No reward money is going to the guys who beat the wrong man. The police have not charged any of the men in either of the beatings. Zenquis says he wants charges pressed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Article and Video Interview

I know I can't escape life, six (ten, twelve,twenty) times on the chalkboard. 'Dismiss me in the conversation, please'. Please continue without my personal experience. Promise I won't look again.

Thanks for understanding. Honest.

Squirrel,

There were snippets of interviews (seconds long) right after it happened of people that live in the neighborhood. When the news gets places right away I often find that it is 'uncensored'. Much like when I used to watch the 4AM news and by the time I got to work at 7 suddenly it be a much more sanitized version of what I'd seen (if it wasn't even pulled all together).

At work I usually deal w/ about 30 pts./ day w/ jobs all across the board. Since it's physical therapy and they're there for about 1 1/2hrs they talk constantly w/ eachother. Some pts work in Philly and live in the burbs where I work stopping for their PT on the way.

H all,
I've returned with this perfect (in my mind:>) analogy of my objection to this post. It's NOT the discussion I object to, it's the TITLE ( I have got to find that dang italics key on here....Jen??) If I don't want to see it, then I cannot come to Conversations. It acts as a gatekeeper.
Analogy: Two magazine racks filled with pics of graphic porn.
Placed in the lobby of an adult movie theater it is acceptable. On view at he local grocers is something else.
If this thread had the title, " Is vigilante justice ever correct", I'm fine with it. Make sense? Is it still objectionable censorship? No more than when stores reasonably (IMO) required adult mags to wrap their covers in brown paper. Do they still? Anyway, I was/am certainly not up on a high horse over this, and am sorry if I made you, roselvr feel badly about posting it, 'cuz I know where you were coming from, and it was a good place:>)
Because some of us perhaps are more sensitive than others, I'd just suggest we might think twice about the title we post here on the lighter forums...not HT, of course! As for censorship, heck, if supreme court justices can't agree on it's definition, how on earth could we!

Leah, I have another perspective regarding the title. Yes, it uses harsh language referring to a brutal act. It is hard to read. But this brutality really happened. To conjure up euphemisms for the sake of comfort zones only serves to minimize the horror of what happened to this child,imo. If she can go through what she went through, the least I can do is face the reality of what happened to her.

I know you don't want to see it when you come to conversations, but maybe when your eyes take it in you can feel some sense of solidarity with the victim for a moment. When I see those words, I feel upset too, but they also serve to remind me that I can't turn away from the painful parts of humanity. When tragedy strikes,at least in spirit, one human being to another, we can hold each other up. But only if we first choose not to look away.

I'll keep my opinion on this, but stinky, that was really nicely said; you touched my heart. I'm over this now, and will just avoid this side for a little while. :>)lc

The problem for me, stinky-gardener, is that in the internet age, we are blanketed with tragic news - it is inescapable. We could flood this conversation board with tales such as this.

Solidarity with the victim - what does that mean? What purpose does it serve in this context? Our knowledge of this event in no way helps this child. And if this child benefits from our holding her up in some way, then what about other children who were raped that day?

Do you see where I am going with this? We benefit from a conversation board in being able to talk about things you don't see elsewhere on TV, internet, radio. But simply to announce a news story and feel that you have helped the victim - I don't see that.

I work in animal rescue. I go out of my way to avoid reading stories about animal abuse.

Beautiful words and thoughts stinky-gardner. Graywings, maybe solidarity with the victim doesn't serve a purpose to you, maybe that wasn't even the best wording. But having empathy for what this child has gone through, recognizing what is happening in our world and even offering up a prayer for this child may or may not benefit the victim, but it hopefully benefits us as human beings. It hopefully makes us a bit more aware of what is going on in our world, makes us watch over our children just a bit closer, makes us hold our own children extra tight for a moment and give thanks that they have not gone through what this child did. I think awareness is often the first step. (A change in the laws for these perps would be a good second step!)

I don't think changing the title of the post to something about vigilante justice makes sense. The OP was not talking about that, she was making us aware of what had happened to this child. At least that's how I interpreted it.

tina

What I took from SG's statment was that we could all support her with the power of prayer and positive energy.

I hope the board doesn't become flooded with horrific things like news stories also, but I don't believe Rose's posting was an announcement or anything like that. Just an emotional reaction and concern for our children. Sure seems these type things get posted from time to time, by concerned people, and is not so out of the ordinary. Maybe it was the 'news flash' style of the posting that threw some people.

I didn't have a problem with the title of this post or with the link to the story.

Others obviously did.

What surprises me is that DillyDally suggested it be moved to Hot Topics and then went on to post a link to something equally, if not more depraved, in her thread about a CL ad leading to the murder of an expectant mom.

And this link solicited no negative comments about the information being too horrible to be posted here.

Why is that?

Tina & Squirrel, I am touched by your insights. You also both interpreted my intentions quite well. Perhaps though, I should say more about what I meant by "solidarity with the victim."

I believe we can "be with" others through our thoughts, intentions & prayers, & by doing so, can "stand for & stand with" someone who is vulnerable and hurting.

I believe I "stand with" someone when I acknowledge the truth of what happened, recognize the pain that resulted, and pray for recovery & healing.

While this child suffered terribly, we can make a difference by praying that she will not go through this hardship alone. We can pray that she learns there is also love & tenderness in this world. We can pray that hope & joy will fill her life again.

By "praying the news" we can take on the task of creating a just & gentle world when we learn of unfairness & brutality. While I do that with my newspaper & tv news, here I get to feel the energy of this community sharing in the task. This forum is a great way to enhance my awareness & connect to the needs of rest of the world.

Graywings, when you said, "But simply to announce a news story and feel that you have helped the victim - I don't see that." I hear your frustration. I think it's natural to feel helpless when facing the world's evils, but I try to remember that a jug fills drop by drop, & that everything we do (& think) has a ripple effect.

Posted by monablair: "What surprises me is that DillyDally suggested it be moved to Hot Topics and then went on to post a link to something equally, if not more depraved, in her thread about a CL ad leading to the murder of an expectant mom."

I have repeatedly in the past pointed out that "hot topics" be discussed in the *Hot topics Forum* only to be blindsided with mockery from all sides. Since it seems that 'consensus rules' here, I guess I can learn to 'go with the flow' and join in with the postings. Why fight it right?

"And this link solicited no negative comments about the information being too horrible to be posted here.

Why is that?"

I think people realized that I had made my point.

------

All the links the OP posted, went to stories about how a mob beat a guy rather than just calling the police with a suspicion that he was in the neighborhood walking down the street. They could have called 911 and if they "wanted to help" then followed him and kept a good eye on him until the police arrived in a few minutes to apprehend him. Another innocent man was savagely beaten the same day by those who thought they had the right guy.

Today is another day and thousands of children will be raped today. None of them will get a party and a parade, or be awarded a "princess plaque". None of them have a "Little Angel Fund" set up by Bank of America. Those kids need solace just as much as this girl does and there is no one to give it to them.

And this link solicited no negative comments about the information being too horrible to be posted here.

Why is that?"

I think people realized that I had made my point.

Curious what your point was?

Monablair, you make a very good point. What I wanted to say, I did not. That post was beyond commenting on...

Yes, Mona. I bit my tongue, too. Seemed like it was posted because subjects like that had become a controversy, bothering some people who didn't want to have to see those types of things on this forum.