I suggest that those who are referring to rape as "surprise sex" have not experienced violent rape, but rather a situation where one thing led to another and the unexpected outcome was sex.
At 13, God willing, she really should have no idea about violent forced sex.
Linda C

Date rape is rape. No matter how you spin it. A woman should choose to be with a man when she feels it's time whether she's 13 or 29. It's a conscious and loving choice not a 'suprise'. And she should make that choice based on her feelings and the understanding of the consequences that can arise from that choice.

A young lady with healthy self esteem and a vision of her future will likely be able to discern the difference.

"At 13, God willing, she really should have no idea about violent forced sex."

Linda, I wish that were true but now at 13 they do need to know about it. The world is not what we remember as kids.

Jo, you might want to mention this to a school counselor and arrange for the young ladies at school to talk with a rape center/counseloring service to bring "rape" into the proper context - a violent act and not a surprise. No names of students, just a general education.

I think it's great that your daughter has a close enough relationship with you to be so open and honest about that. It truly is a different world than when we were that age, but I believe you handled it beautifully. Obviously you have done a superb job raising your girl.

Duane

Isn't that something!

I talked a lot with my daughter about sex at that age. Now at 16, she doesn't want to talk too much about it anymore cuz she feels a little uncomfortable. But at 13, I told her a lot! (She started menstruating at 11.)

I also told her about date rape and how the guy will more than likely threaten her to not tell anybody or else. I told her that's because he doesn't want to get caught. Usually the girl will not say anything to anyone because they are scared and that's what the rapist is counting on. I told her that we can't help her if she doesn't tell us.

I'm a victim of attempted rape which happened 2 weeks before my 15th birthday... from someone I knew too, and who my family knew!

Keep talking to her about sex, pregnancy, transmitted diseases, and also about how some guys will try to get a girl drunk so they can take advantage of her, about ecstacy (no smell, no taste, etc., plus u won't remember a thing when you wake up). I also told her how some guys will say "I love you" thinking that's all the girl wants to hear (and some girls do!), etc. Explain what "love" is at that age and about raging hormones (puberty).

Jo, I just want to say that I think it's terrific that you and your daughter can talk so openly. Not every child is willing to have that conversation with a parent. Good for you!

And yes, that is quite disturbing. It's right up there with kids referring to t-shirts as wife-beater shirts. I hope no one is offended by the link below, but I think it typifies how repulsive concepts are being made acceptable in our language.

Here is a link that might be useful: wife-beaters

Jo that is truly disturbing if indeed she meant rape as opposed to an unplanned consensual sexual experience.

When Meredith was about that age she told me that lots of her peers were engaging in oral sex because it really wasn't sex, you couldn' t get pregnant and you couldn't get aids ?????? Thanks Bill!!! We had a long talk about what "sex" really is.

She was, and still is, very open with me . At 19, almost 20, she told me she thought she should talk to our doctor about birth control. I told her that was between her and the doctor and I was OK if she did that. It was a funny feeling, but with your kids there is never TMI !!!! Well maybe not so with Dad!!!

Ditto on the props to you Jo for being able to have such an open relationship with your daughter! I concur with all that's been said before, but I want to echo Peppi that you should mention this conversation to the Dean of Students or a female administrator so that they can bring in a specialist to educate these young girls!

Jo, I have a friend with a daughter the same age as yours. It is hard to believe the amount of trashy talk that is exchanged between kids that age. No sexual topic is too vulgar from what I have heard. I work at a community college, and there is a group of (very immature IMHO) kids who sit in the lounge outside my office and trash talk sex for hours. I can hardly keep from going up to them and saying "Get lives you people!!!" And tell them that they are polluting my space with their immature, vulgar speech. And believe me, rape is a common topic, what is and is not rape, and how bad could this or that be. And very few of the young girls stick up for their feelings and opinions about what it might be like emotionally and physically to feel used, they are encouraged by the boys to be cavalier.

It's great that your daughter shares these things with you. It's up to you to set an example and tell her the straight dope on all of this stuff. Also maybe talk about the appropriateness of talking the way her friends talk. Also about her right to say no, any time, any where. And that people who are decent and loving don't talk like that or act like that. Just my .02, and I am NO prude, believe me. It really bothers me how much soft porn is floating around out there. If I were a mom, I know I would have to work very hard to exclude that element and include healthy, realistic discussions about sex.

I was so upset hearing that song "I Kissed a Girl" on the raido yesterday. My friend told me that one was making the rounds of the teen trash talk mill. I'm not against gay people, but that wasn't the point of the song. The point of the song is now girls can treat each other as sex objects. It's open season on the objectification of people--the materialistic, consumer culture we live in encourages men to treat women as sex objects, women to treat men as sex objects, men to treat men as sex objects, and now, women to treat women as sex objects. Sex sells, and sells and sells. That's what we are up against. There is an alternative world and culture out there, and I would make sure my daughter is firmly grounded in it, which seems would be an exausting task nowdays--constant involvement and monitoring of friends and activities, yet trying to allow independence and growth. What a herculean task!

Nothin like watching a 14 year old gyrate to "Papa Don't Preach, I'm Keepin' My Baby," which is the kind of thing you witness if you work with teens like I have. And someone has to be the meanie and say, "We're not playing that kind of music here, we don't approve of it." And you get treated like total scum by the kids, and secretly they love that you are standing up for something decent. They are hungry for someone to say, "That is bad, and here's why." Not just "That is bad and you are bad for doing it," but WHY it is bad. What dearly held values of yours does it violate. I know how painful it is to hear that kind of stuff coming from your sweet baby, but I would try and approach it as a blessed opportunity to share decent values with my child, which I think if you do it in a positive and non-judgemental way, she will greatly appreciate. I wouldn't spend much time dissing the statement, instead I'd spend a LOT of time discussing the reality and the positive things a girl can do to stand up for her values.

BTW, there ARE kids who sit outside my office and discuss their families and relationships, their jobs, politics, issues they care about, school, clubs, vacations etc. It's not totally hopeless!!

Sorry about the soapbox, but I work with teens and young adults and this bothers me to no end. Especially when it is all done in the name of freedom of expression and freedom of speech, two things I value highly. But with rights come responsibilities folks!!

I just want to add one more thing. Although it is totally appropriate for schools and other institutions to take a strong stand against the promotion of what I call "soft porn values," there is nothing to compare to the influence of the family. I know it seems counterintuitive, at a time when most kids are giving their families a lot of grief and rebellion, etc., that is exactly the time they need and want the most support. I work in education, and have done surveys of teens about where they get support while they are in school, and who helps them with their self esteem, and "my family" is way out ahead of all other influences. Despite what the media mythmakers would have you think. Family is everything to kids these days, something my office eavesdropping bears out. And so many of them hunger for their parents to step up to that plate.

Jo, I think its wonderful you can discuss this with your daughter and also think a frank talk with her school counselor is in order so that it might help some of the girls.

There is a book by Greg Iles called "Turning Angel" that tells you what is going on the schools today. Yes, it's a novel, but he has researched the schools and even though the book is a good read it's worse than disgusting to see what girls are doing these days. I recommend anyone who has a daughter about to go into their teens, or even younger to read this book.

That is about the only thing we can still talk openly about...with out "issues"...
As many of you know I have only boys...we've always been open and keep dialog going around here on tough issues for kids/tweens and teens...
I figure as long as my son(s) tell me things about what's going on in their world or friends/peers world...he's not keeping secrets from me. When they start closing up on a subject..there becomes a feeling of secretness..or taboo..

Mine still openly talks about things...some things..there has been a few conversations that have gotten the slinky eyes....

I've never heard that term from him...I'll have to ask if that's something going on around here yet.