That is ridiculous! Never have seen that.

I have never heard of that, and I would of done exactly as you did.

Personally I am not offended with this, it only takes a minute to scribble an address; is it tacky to ask for that?, yes I do think so. The shower organizers should have printed out an extra sheet of address labels and given it to the honoree.

Nothing surprises me any more, etiquette has gone by the wayside.

Is this common?

Yes. At least where I am from it is. A shower is often a 'surprise' or even if not, the honoree does not do the planning or inviting and would have no idea where to send the thank you notes. Sometimes with informal gatherings like showers the invites are done by phone if it is all close friends or relatives, or even by verbal personal invite if it is co-workers or with a sign on a workplace bulletin board. I would not be offended by such a request done at a shower. A wedding or anniversary party where invitations were mailed out would be different and I have never see this done at such a function and would be aghast if it was requested at such an event.

Yes I saw it several years ago. I went ahead and filled out my envelope. The premise was that they would pull one of them out of the fish bowl for a sort of door prize.

I participated mainly because I didn't know what else to do. But I agree that it's tacky.

Never seen or heard of it done around here. I agree that it is tacky.

A surprise shower would be one thing, but otherwise, I've never known of a shower where the honoree did not at least help in making up the list of invitees (and their addresses). I agree that it would be an easy thing for those giving the shower to provide the honoree with the names and addresses.

Lowspark - that's funny!

tina

Tacky, lazy and presumptuous.

I've heard of this, but never actually seen it done. It's not proper, according to etiquette.

My extended family only does surprise showers. Someone has to make up a list of guests and it's pretty simple to give that to the guest of honor, along with addresses if you think she doesn't have them. In my family, shower guests are family and really close friends. Even if the GOH didn't get the list, it wouldn't be all that hard to get the addresses--her parents would have all the family ones and she would either have the addresses of her close friends or know how to get them easily.

Yes, tracking down the addresses could be a bit of work, but so is going out and selecting and buying a present, wrapping it, treking to the shower and giving up an afternoon to see someone else showered with gifts.

It is just so hard to be a material girl these days, one never knows where to draw the line between good manners and convenience. If the girls hosting the shower *really* wanted to "help Suzie", they should have asked everyone to fill out the envelope, AND write a brief note on the card to um, "remind" her what they actually brought. Lord knows, a busy and popular girl like our dear Suzie has oh-so-many-gifts she can't be expected to remember everyone who gave her a token of their affection, now can she?

Just think: all she would have to write is "Dear So and So, Thank you for the"_____________________. "See you at the baby shower next year. BFN, Suzie"

if she wanted to personalize it a little more for those $pecial friend$ and relative$, she could say "Dear So and So, Thank you for the"_____________________. "See you at the baby shower next year, where I'm expecting you to pony up for a car seat and a diaper genie. BFN, Suzie"

Come to think of it, I'm surprised someone hasn't invented Fill In The Blank Thank You notes yet.
Dear__________,
Thank you for the _______________.
It means so much to us.
Love, _____________.

I've never heard of that done and my mouth would've hit the floor. I just think it screams "I'M LAZY!". I don't care if the girl received 200 gifts that day.

Yup, at a bridal shower 3 years ago. I didn't bother.

Come to think of it, I'm surprised someone hasn't invented Fill In The Blank Thank You notes yet.
Dear__________,
Thank you for the _______________.
It means so much to us.
Love, _____________.

Sadly -- they have.

Totally tacky - But please blame the shower organizers and let the poor bride off the hook for this faux pas.

At my shower, one of the neighborhood mom's did ask the guests to write down their address and phone number, but it was on an index card that then went into a nicely decorated box that was given to me as one of my shower gifts. I was very grateful to have that and used it often during the next several years. (Still use it, come to think of it.) That's not tacky, is it?

A related question -

Are computer-generated address labels tacky for social correspondence? I always kind of thought they were (for invitations that are more formal than computer-generated) -- but life would sure be easier if they're not!

I had the exact same thought Sweeby. Think tacky of the organizers but the poor bride may not have been involved. Personally I'd have been embaressed (if I were the bride) but it would have been more tacky for her to say something after the announcement was out so she's kind of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position there...

If the lovely guest of honor has enough time to USE the gifts that she's been given, I dare say she has enough time to find the address list and properly thank the givers. I wouldn't have filled one out.

No matter how tacky you think things can get, someone always impresses you with their vast greed and appalling carelessness, don't they? Why not skip the shower and just request signed checks without amounts filled in -- the hostesses could then fill in the dollar amounts as they see fit and then copy down the givers' names and addresses from the tops of the checks. The honoree will then have all of the addresses so she can send thank-yous with next year's Christmas cards! So easy!

Sweeby,

What you were given, (index cards with everyone's name, address and telephone number, in a decorative gift box), was a GIFT, and one that would be appreciated by most young brides. That idea has merit, but blank envelopes for the gift-givers to furnish their own address for the "bride's convenience" is pure and simple TACKY, TACKY, TACKY!

I went to a wedding a couple of years ago, daughter of a coworker, who sent generic, computer generated, pre printed thank you notes...."Thank you for the lovely gift." No reference to what it was, nothing personal at all. Not even hand written. Needless to say when I got the invitation to her SECOND wedding....

I'd say it wasn't following normal social edict, but I would have been ok with it especially if it was a baby shower as I know I'm also helping the new mom out. Could be like me who got pregnancy induced carpal tunnel or if close to delivery will be very busy shortly.

The girls that hosted a baby shower for me, gave me a list of the invitees with their addresses and one of them also filled in on the list they'd created as I opened the gifts. This was most helpful for me.

Yes, tracking down the addresses could be a bit of work, but so is going out and selecting and buying a present, wrapping it, treking to the shower and giving up an afternoon to see someone else showered with gifts.

I think this sums things up nicely, and is exactly why I feel about this as I do.

Sweeby and littledog: the only pre-printed/fill in the blank thank you notes are ones for kids who are just learning how to write. I HOPE there aren't any out there for grown-ups to lazily use. What's next, posting a big "Thanks" on your Facebook wall, or tweeting one on Twitter to your followers? Egad!

Gasp. Chokes on afternoon mug of tea.

Tacky?

Great Stars Above -- just when I think that I've heard (or read) it all ........

I agree wholeheartedly with Aunt Jen (as usual LOL! ) and many other folks here!!

IF they wanted to help the GOH -- simply have a printed form with the names and addresses -- then a designated "helper" fills in the basic information on the gift as she opens them ....

AFTER the shower -- the filled-in list is given to the bride.

The thoughtful and caring bride (or GOH) finds, buys and writes out the thank-you notes. And mails them promptly.

At least I hope so!!! LOL! :)

Jan at Rosemary Cottage

I've heard of the "address it yourself" thank-you cards before, but never encountered this in real life. I cannot imagine it would go over well with my local social set. My only concession to helping the bride/mom-to-be in this situation is to write my address on the back of the gift card I enclose with the wrapped present - as most people do in my area. But I'm not self-addressing envelopes.

How much of a hardship could it honestly be to "track down" the addresses of people to whom you are sufficiently close that they were invited to a wedding/baby shower in your honor?

FWIW, I prefer social correspondence to be handwritten unless there's a very good reason (by that I mean something other than simple convenience) for it not to be.

Slightly OT, but this thread reminds me of our discussion about receiving invitations to events (such as a graduation) from people that we aren't close to at all. Today I received what is obviously an invitation - I'm guessing to either a wedding or a graduation - that is addressed to the couple who lived in my house more than ten years ago. Wow. Talk about inviting everyone you ever knew and then some! Since the person issuing the invitation obviously doesn't know that Craig and Amy moved from my address at least a decade ago, it stands to reason they haven't remained close over the years.

Before I forget, I want to add something we've run into. We have gotten Christmas cards where the person was too lazy to sign it and used a pre-printed address label.

As far as the original post-
Would you mind addressing the outside of the envelope so as to help "susie" with her thank you notes.

I cringed.. I know that "Susie" is a general name but it's my name; and this Susie sends thank you cards! lol

Enough messing.. honestly, I don't know how I'd feel. These days people don't send them; and I might just be happy that someone thought to do this to teach Susie that people need to be thanked properly because maybe they know her well enough to foresee that she won't even think to send any? On the other hand, maybe I wouldn't be so nice as to participate in doing this. I guess it would depend on my relationship with the person as well as what the shower was for. If it's for someone having a baby or three and I know what their life is like; I might address one.

The last time I went to one, I was thanked in person but a card would have been nice. I know the person is not one to send cards and they did give me a nice appreciative thank you.

"I cringed.. I know that "Susie" is a general name but it's my name; and this Susie sends thank you cards! "

LOL roselvr! Not trying to offend, but, um, well, you know. Of course, it's easy for me, nobody ever has MY name. (no human being, anyway)

How about we call her "Soozie" instead? ;^)

Okay, first things first, my question "Tacky?" was a bit rhetorical, but I thought I'd ask since DD thinks I was being a bit critical about the shower overall. I'll spare you the tedious details.

However, a pertinent detail would be that the hosts of this shower left multiple boxes of cards & envelopes at each table. The shower was attended by at least 75-80 of MTB's nearest and dearest. Said 75-80 guests were seated at 3 VERRRRY LOOONNNG tables.

Another pertinent detail I think I may have forgotten to include in my original post, was that during the little thanks for coming speech, the gal also announced that there were "sign up" calendar sheets on both dessert tables, please sign in with your ability to help out "susie" by committing to a date and time to babysit so that "susie & DH" could have some date nites, register dates on which you could provide a casserole-type dinner for "susie", date on which you could come in to clean for "susie", or anything else you might think of that would be helpful to "susie" since she is going to have her hands full with two babies. I left after all of the presents were opened and quite a few guests were already gone, I noticed that the "calendars" were EMPTY.

This is the same shower I previously posted about wherein the invitation requested a gift for the "wishing well" AND an item to hang on the "clothesline" along with your main gift.

Background, MTB is due to give birth to twins next month. MTB is 39 and has a grown son from her first marriage or relationship - don't know her well enough to know if she married her first child's father, really doesn't matter. Point being, MTB knows what it is like to have an infant around as she's not new at this. She is not a rookie. MTB was doing fertility treatments to get pregnant. So, I would imagine that if you are going down the fertility treatment road, it may occur to you, or perhaps you are forewarned by the fertility specialist that multiples can be one of the blessings that may happen with the help of fertility treatments.

Anyhoo, MTB has now stopped working until after the babies are born. I think she might have a couple of hours a day to sit and write some thank yous each day? As I posted, the ladies who hosted the shower had no problem finding my address in order to invite me. I think the idea of the index cards written and boxed up as a gift to the MTB would have been a lovely idea. Had that been the situation, I would have had no problem providing my address/writing out the envelope.

littledog - yes they do make pre-printed thank you notes. I purchased them for my DD to send as soon as she was old enough to WRITE words. These pre-printeds that are available are made for that specific purpose ONLY.

Yes, it was a surprise shower, which is odd for my group of friends/social set as housewitch put it. The bridal shower I attended the day prior was NOT a surprise. Different branches of the family tree.

It could very well be that the elegance and attention to detail at the bridal shower the day before, played a major role in accentuating the lack of effort made by the hostesses of the baby shower on Sunday.

Anyhoo, I don't blame the MTB. As I said, it was a surprise and she had nothing to do with the planning or execution of the event. All in all, she may be mortified finding out that the guests were asked to address the envelopes to whom the thank you note is to be sent. However, I don't think so. "Susie" planned the baby shower for her SIL, wife of her DH's brother - other cousin, same family, at which, each guest was given an envelope to address to herself.

I'd like to thank each and every one of you lovely ladies for allowing me to vent.

Before I forget, I want to add something we've run into. We have gotten Christmas cards where the person was too lazy to sign it and used a pre-printed address label.

I call these the "untouched by human hands" Christmas cards. At least your insurance company includes a useful calendar.

"Before I forget, I want to add something we've run into. We have gotten Christmas cards where the person was too lazy to sign it and used a pre-printed address label."

Oops, I resemble that remark, at least in that I use pre-printed address labels for my holiday card list. It used to give me a twinge, since I also have pre-printed return address labels. The holiday recipient labels are themed in my feeble defense.

And as time has passed and holiday cards seem to be getting more rare, I feel that since I always write something personal-and not just my signature-I'm at least being thoughtful enough to SEND a card, with a message inside!

So there to it, as my son used to say when he was a toddler :).

Ann

Ohhh I thought this was a bridal shower....I misunderstood.

I have to say, as the mom of a difficult baby, I'm totally taking back what I said about it being tacky. I got my first round of thanks out but then DS was born and while you may thing new mom's have a few hours a day, some don't and many twin mom's don't really have the time you think they'll have. Add to that it's IVF so they'll likely be early....I gotta give the girl a break. She's probably gone through hell to get pregnant (IVF is not for fragile flowers) and given she's an older mom, she probably does have many friends (I had 3 showers and in total it was more than the number of people you're discussing here). I had three because dear friends wanted to throw them...it was very sweet but I didn't want any one person saddled with our list of must invites, so it was broken up.

I'd have happily filled out the thank you card and written what i gave on the back of the envelope to help her out. New babies are hard. Premie twins (likely) or even full term twins are not easy. I could have used a caserol or two...it was lonely after DS was born and got progressively worse. Her friends must have big hearts. Sure it could ahve been a bit better handled...but sheesh the love in the ideas warms mine just understanding them after having been "there".

You mean none of the "girls" hosting this event could be bothered to commit to volunteering as a Merry Maid? Not one personally felt up to the task of babysitting newborn twins so the honoree could go schmoozing with her DH, but they were not troubled in the least about hosting a cattle call to ask 75 *other* people to do it?

Here I thought the self addressed envelopes were thoughtless and tacky. (BTW, I'd think that partially pre written thank you notes are fine if you're 3 or 4 years old.)

Sure it's tacky if you care about that sort of thing. I don't. Why should it bother me to take 10 seconds out of my life to fill out my address when it will lessen someone else's task ten fold? How does that put me out in the least? How does that make me, the guest, uncomfortable? How does it make me feel unwelcome? How does it make me feel disrespected? It doesn't make me feel any of these things that etiquette is suppose to prevent.

We really do need to take another look at these antiquated "social norms" and think about how they apply to our modern lives. Being someone's guest is about sharing your time with people you enjoy, not about making judgments about the host's many faux pas.

Please tell me if I'm missing something?

Kelly, in my opinion what you are missing is that traditionally being a guest means you are being invited to share a moment, a milestone or simply spend enjoyable time with the host(ess), perhaps the honoree and the other guests at the event. The host(ess)' responsibility is to provide everything for the *guests* that will make that goal happen. So, asking guests to take on a task, or requesting payment, or doing anything other than providing the most gracious and welcoming and pleasant experience possible....is not considered polite or correct.

That said, your response indicates you are a person willing to be gracious yourself and take on some of the work the host(ess) should have handled. And that is truly the best etiquette of all!

In the end, manners and etiquette and what is proper are all meant to ensure that life is pleasant and kind. Nothing more, but surely nothing less either.

Ann

runninginplace -

I think what roselvr was saying was that she's received Christmas cards where the address label was used inside the card instead of a signature or note of any kind.

I personally wouldn't even notice if someone used an address label on the envelope. What makes a difference is something personal inside the card, at least a signature.

Pugga, yes, instead of signing the card, an address label was used inside. It wasn't even Christmas/winter holiday related.. Think they had a flag one year.

"Another pertinent detail I think I may have forgotten to include in my original post, was that during the little thanks for coming speech, the gal also announced that there were "sign up" calendar sheets on both dessert tables, please sign in with your ability to help out "susie" by committing to a date and time to babysit so that "susie & DH" could have some date nites..."

Thank goodness they weren't asking for volunteers to be nurse maids. Now that would have been tacky LOL ;o)

Sounds like you just don't like the hostess - and I can understand that part. Vent away.

Now all the things she did sounds caring from my point of view though for the MTB although the hostess might not have done the best in her delivery or how she put it together. Having some help, food, etc. would have been very helpful even if the MTB knows what to expect with one baby - she may not be prepared for how to handle two. Just because the chance is there for two or more with fertility treatments doesn't lessen the amount of work. I'm sure these babies will be very loved as somebody else mentioned you don't go through fertility treatments for the fun of it. It is not an easy road.

As I mentioned before I had pregnancy induced carpal tunnel so writing my thank you's took a lot of effort and I had to try to space it out. Making it worse it didn't go away after delivery for another 6 months which made it very difficult to breast feed my baby along with other struggles due to her being a near term preemie. I would have loved to have had pre-addressed envelopes or labels. I still got mine all out, but it was really not good for my health at that time. I would have been so extra thankful at that time to not have to write the addresses in addition to the thank you notes.

I didn't sleep more than 1hr in a 24hr period the first 6 weeks of my daughters life. So I got things done somehow, but I don't remember any of it. I see the hostess trying to help the MTB out as much as possible, but I also don't know the hostess or have any knowledge of her as a person so if I were in your shoes I might want to vent too if I did.

I don't see that asking 75 to 80 people to sign up to babysit newborn infants is "caring"; I think it comes across as brainless.

Let me put it this way: make a list of 80 people you know, but not necessarily well. Feel free to include second cousins, great aunts, coworkers, neighbors; extend your circle as far as you need to get 80 people rounded up.

Now, exactly how many of those people would you feel comfortable with in your home caring for two infants while you and your DH are having a night out on the town?

Like I said, brainless.

Actually lyfia, I have no reason to dislike the hostess who gave the speech. I don't know her, or any of the co-hosts at all. The shower was given by 6 friends of the bride - those who served as her bridesmaids. So, no my feelings regarding the boxes of thank you cards and envelopes being placed every few feet down the center of the tables had nothing at all to do with whether I like or dislike those hosting the shower.

With regard to caring for a newborn, I definitely had my hands full when my DD was born. She spent her first 11 days in NICU at the nearest Children's Hospital. Once she was released to come home, I spent at least one day per week doing visits at the specialists, nutrition, and other departments at the Children's Hospital where DD was followed weekly for the first year. So, I know from my own personal experience that things can be tough once the baby(ies) come. My vent wasn't about that.

I still think it is/was tacky to ask guests at a shower, be it wedding or baby, to address their own thank you note envelope.

I don't know how I would have reacted to the presumptuous "calendar sheet sign-up" speech. Makes the self-addressed thank you notes pale in comparison.

littledog - Your post is spot on. That was the exact conversation we had in the car on the way home from the shower. We don't even know the MTB that well. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times I have been at the same function as MTB, including her wedding and her baby shower!

In the event my DD had no medical "issues" when she was first born, I would have been extremely selective of who was going to be caring for her. I wasn't one of the "pass the baby around the room" type of moms that I see now. It drives me nuts. However, I am coming from the end of the era in which you didn't take your baby out until after the baby had been baptized.

natal - Yes, I think that was the reaction of most of the guests. The sign up sheets were completely blank when we left the shower, and several guests were gone before MTB finished opening her gifts.

I still think it is/was tacky to ask guests at a shower, be it wedding or baby, to address their own thank you note envelope.

Me too.

I don't think its tacky.

The friends of the MTB wanted to make her life easier for her. They felt that having guests spend 10 seconds of their time to write their address on a card would help the new mother out and save her some time which is scarce when you have a newborn. If I cared enough about the person whose shower I was attending, I would want to maker her life easier and would gladly fill it out. Its a small gesture which, while some people may find it tacky, will go a long way for an overwhelmed mom.

You know, we "had" to include people on our invite list (I did not throw showers for myself but two hostesses asked for lists and we both were executives in different businesses so you are sort of required to include some staff). On our lists were many employees (which we did so that they didn't throw yet another shower) and while I love many of our friends and family and the folks we work with...sure I wouldn't leave our son with them! But the offer of a babysitter, even on that simple little list, even if not taken up...well it's a sweet offer and that alone would have been special. Food? Ya I know many a new mom I've baked dinner for and they always seem to love it. I would have. When we were in hospital in a couple of different cities some people I'd had as students actually brought us food in hospital. That little gesture, especially from a stranger who is just doing it because they have a big heart, is so special to a new mom and dad.

No you'd never take up the whole list on their offers...we had to invite one couple I'd not have left a gold fish with, (unless the fish liked to drink gin) but still, while I wouldn't have maybe taken them all up on it, that list would have warmed my heart. I think it was sweet.

But I'm still confused...LOL Is this a bride or a new mother???

Mother to be.

"The friends of the MTB wanted to make her life easier for her. They felt that having guests spend 10 seconds of their time to write their address on a card would help the new mother out and save her some time which is scarce when you have a newborn. If I cared enough about the person whose shower I was attending, I would want to maker her life easier and would gladly fill it out. Its a small gesture which, while some people may find it tacky, will go a long way for an overwhelmed mom."

True, but in this case, the babies are not yet born.

I grant you, writing the TY notes and addressing the envelopes for 80 gifts from 80 guests is going to take a bit of time. But there's no reason that a shower has to have so many guests. The average shower that I've been to has had 20-30 guests, and that's considered a large party.

From an etiquette standpoint, having your guests do work you should be doing--addressing the envelopes--is wrong. Hosts don't make guests who have gone to the trouble of getting them a gift do the work.

The hosts could easily have supplied the guest of honor with printed address labels for all the guests, thereby eliminating the work of addressing the envelopes and sparing their guests from having to do so. Or the mom to be could have asked a friend to help address the envelopes. There are other solutions that are much more within the bounds of etiquette.

Mother to be.

with a grown son from a previous marriage

I always thought showers were for close friends and family. Why would you feel you "had" to include employees?

Camlan - we can agree to disagree.

I know that not many people share my opinion but I personally would not be offended. I choose to think of it more as a way to help a new mom or a MTB rather than as a breach to etiquette. Perhaps the baby has not yet been born, but just the anticipation of motherhood and a new baby can be stressful. If I can alleviate stress for someone I like/respect enough to go to their shower, I can write my address on an envelope and not think too much of it.

Again, I realize my opinion is not the norm on this board, but to me, this wouldn't be too big a deal. I try to look at it from the point of view of the hosts. They may have made an etiquette faux pax, but their hearts were in the right place for their friend.

They may have made an etiquette faux pax, but their hearts were in the right place for their friend.

This is exactly how I feel. I would not have done it myself but won't judge someones good intentions.

I think the entire event was so unintimate that the request to self address an envelope just pushed Work in Progress over the edge.

How can you have 80 people at a baby shower? Can you imagine how long it took to open the gifts? My goodness, how did she get everything home in one trip?

I probably would have filled it out, but a better gift to the MTB would have been for the hostesses to fill out the addresses for her on the envelopes. I personally believe that showers are the most intimate of gatherings, employees and acquaintances can be invited to the formal wedding etc. but if you don't know someone well enough to have their address handy, then they shouldn't be on the invite list.

A friend of mine's son recently passed away and a group of 6-8 of us got together with her and helped her address all the thank you envelopes for people who sent flowers and donated to the charity in his name. It was a huge task for her, and it felt good being able to help in this small way.

I do admit to feeling a bit put out when my OBGYN asks me to fill out a postcard at my annual appt. to be sent as a reminder for the next year to call and schedule. Every year it sortof freaks me out for a minute to see my name and address in my own handwriting!

I think its tacky to have such a large shower with a bunch of people the honoree may not even know that well in the first place. Its mercenary. Of course since I am not married --other than common law, anyway, and have no children of my own, I've only been on the giving end of things, never on the receiving, so I am probably biased against the whole graboganza in the first place.

Natal "why did we Have to invite employees" because each of our staff wanted to throw us a party at the offices, as did our friends both from work and friends who are clients as well as personal friends....we were in our mid 40's and busy professionals. It changes things. We asked to invite the staff we worked closest with so they wouldn't feel they had to do something at work, which would have involved many other people, and to make our life easier.

Perhaps that's part of the issue with the social circle we deal with, but it's kind of the norm where we live for the folks you work with to have parties for other folks they work with. When your the boss that adds pressure on the staff (social stuff...NOT FROM US) and we wanted to aleviate that.

My boss was a close friend of my husband's. My close friend is a business associate of his. The older you get the more tied up stuff like that gets. And aside from one couple who we did not want to invite but "had to" (another hilarious story in itself) the people we work with are like family. We also celebrate their lifes when occasions arise.

Believe it or not, it was stresful beyond stressful. We didn't need anything, didn't want anything, didn't want to make feel people feel they had to purchase stuff for the baby....it was and odd situation that neither of us had been in before and at our age it felt odd. Somehow these types of parties are so much easier when they're for 20 year olds :)