I would only be concerned if the teflon began to peel off.

But isn't it bad to heat it - even if intact?

I'm not a fan of Teflon, it's too easily marred, but it is my understanding that it begins to degrade and produce harmful fumes at 500F or so. I don't think your bread machine ever reaches that temperature.

DuPont says ingesting teflon flakes won't hurt you, but I don't think I want to test that assertion, although I'm sure I've consumed many things more harmful.

Annie

Teflon, like all plastics, can produce toxic compounds when the substance is degraded, but it depends on the circumstances (what's degrading it) and the type of plastic. I'm not crazy about teflon mainly because it stops being non stick eventually so it is a waste, IMHO. And it stops being non stick because it has degraded, so you can bet it has given off some carcinogens over time. But enough to make you sick . . . ? That's debatable. A lot of factors come into play, it's not a smoking gun situation. There are so many worse environmental toxins I'd worry about first. Also, I wouldn't worry about it as much at the low temps. of baking. You could also stop baking in the teflon bread machine pan and just use the dough cycle. Resulting loaves are far superior, IMHO. Lots of options for bread pans then.

Also, the worst complaints against teflon are in its manufacture and the waste products from that, not its use at low temps. High temps is another issue.

An interesting link from WebMD on the difficulties of determining how dangerous teflon is.

Generally speaking, the known danger point is at temps above 500 degrees, but there may be some degradation at lower temps. Most experts advise not cooking with teflon over 400 degrees. If I'm not mistaken, bread cooks at just about that temperature. I wouldn't say it is totally safe though, no way to guaruntee that there isn't some heat degradation. The question is not just how much, but also how it might accumulate over time in your body (plastic toxins aren't broken down by the body and can be stored in body fat over time, so the effects aren't accute, they occur over the long term). But then these toxins are somewhat ubiquitous, so it would be hard to say how much of what might accumulate in the average person's body could be attributed to teflon.

For me, teflon isn't that great for other reasons. It's often coated on cheap aluminum pans that don't heat up all that great anyway. As for bread pans, they are just OK, I like the results you get from heavier duty pans in the oven better but the breadmachine pan is acceptable to me if I'm in a hurry or distracted with work while baking.

A little teflon in my life is the least of the environmental problems I'm worried about. Wish they were all this easy to deal with! At least with this one there are some easy alternatives.

Here is a link that might be useful: EPA seeks answers - is teflon toxic?

I thought there was a law passed recently to phase out all teflon products? Don't have time to search for it at the moment.

But I do know that teflon kills birds even when not heated to 500 degrees.

http://www.ewg.org/node/21780

And it's bad in many other ways too. For example:
http://www.ewg.org/node/21786

There are more links there.

I'd rather avoid it if I can and would really like to find a SS pan. No such luck?

Thanks!

I don't know for sure but it doesn't make sense for a bread pan in a bread machine not to have a non-stick coating of some type if you intend to bake bread in it. Nonstick coatings are plastic of some form or another. There's no way you could grease the pan before baking with the way the bread machine works. The only solution is to just use the breadmachine on the dough cycle and bake the bread in the oven in a pan made of some alternate material. This is what a lot of people do anyway, becuase it results in a superior loaf of bread.

I could be wrong, there might be a bread machine out there without a non-stick coated bread bowl, but I can't imagine how it would work for baking. Mixing dough yes, but not for mixing dough AND baking, which is what the bread machine does unless you use the dough cycle.

I've read all the facts and it doesn't seem like the bread pan in a bread machine will reach the temperatures where research indicates it will give off toxins, especially if you only use it to process dough and don't bake in it. Of course that doesn't mean that you won't still be contributing to the toxins that are produced in the manufacture of non-stick coatings, which is significant, much more than from cooking with it. So called "green" teflon is supposedly manufactured in a way that reduces the toxins in the manufacture and has less off gassing. But it's still plastic so it's probably going to have the same issues to some extent. So if you're really concerned about it, which you have a right to be, then get a food processor that can do bread dough, or a mixer with a dough hook.

I don't think that you will find a SS pan anywhere. I've done some google searching and there are other threads about this and no one has been able to find one. Maybe if you are THAT concerned about it then a bread machine just isn't an option. Maybe try writing the companies and tell them to put SS pans in their machines...if enough people voice their concern maybe they'll do something about it. There does seem to be a lot of concern over this issue. I remember when I was looking for a rice cooker I found a lot of people mad because they would buy a "stainless steel" rice cooker only to find out they were confused and it was just the "color" of the rice cooker and not the pan. They have made a few SS pan rice cookers though so why not bread machines?

I haven't found a bread machine that advertises a safe non-stick coating on the bread pan. I owned a couple different bread machines over the years and never had the coating on one of the bread pans, flake off. I did experience flaking on the coating on the paddle, in the pan at one time, which I didn't care for. Until I find a bread machine that doesn't use a Teflon coating on the pan, I'll make homemade bread using the no knead recipes.

Lpink has a good point, I think a simple stainless steel pan would have a lot of issues with bread sticking since there's no way to grease it before baking the dough in it.

I never bake in the bread machine, I only use it for mixing and kneading the dough, because I don't like the crust on machine baked bread. However, if I truly did not want to use anything nonstick I think my only choices would be to knead by hand or with a stand mixer, or make the no-knead stuff.

Annie

I was thinking the same thing as arkansas_girl:

They have made a few SS pan rice cookers though so why not bread machines?

I guess I am "out of luck" - LOL.

OK, I'll get some bread pans to bake in the oven.

Do you know what size is for 2 lb loafs? Is it 9"x5"?

Also, what is the best material?

Thanks!

Boy Eleena that IS an interesting question. I am looking to buy some new pans too. I think it might depend somewhat on what type of bread you like to bake and also what kind of oven you have. Right now I am debating whether to experiment with some cast iron bread pans. But with my dodgy electric oven I don't know if it will make that much difference.
I'd be very interested in what some of our master bread bakers have to say on this subject.
A lot of the commercial grade pans they sell have some type of silicone coating on them, which is a plasticized compound of sorts, although it doesn't contain the stuff teflon does.
I also believe, as with bread machine pans, a lot of the issue is the quality of the metal. How heavy gauge it is. It may also depend on what kind of crust you like. I'm a chewy crust gal, but others do not like that kind of crust, they like a soft crust.

I don't have any but my daughter has a "Fat Daddio" hard anodized bread pan that's really nice. I like it because it doesn't have inside seams to catch bits of dough or cause things to stick and they come in several sizes. Norpro makes a stainless steel pan and USA Pans makes a silicone plated metal pan, supposed to not be harmful but I don't know anyone who has one so I can't tell you how it works.

I did have a Pyrex loaf pan but I didn't like it, the darned thing stuck like crazy every time and the crust doesn't brown nicely. I know that was warned of on one of the on-line sites, probably The Fresh Loaf.

A two pound loaf usually uses a 9X5 pan. Now, I know 9x5 should be just that, but there are differences of up to 1/4 inch in pans, so some are bigger, some are smaller. My KitchenAid 9X5 pans are actually 9 1/4 x 5 1/8.

A pound and a half loaf is the 8 1/2 x 4 1/2 inch size, usually.

I have KitchenAid pans and I like them, but they are non-stick.

Annie

I bought the La Cloche clay baker from Breadtopia.com. It's pricey at $39, but it works nicely for large loaves and can be used to cook other things in it too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Breadtopia-La Cloche clay baker

sowngrow,

It looks very cool! I am intrigued...
Does it produce better results than a regular pan?

Also, do you ladies think of using cast iron with a lid (or without)? I have a few pieces that are collecting dust as they are too heavy for me for everyday cooking.

Thanks!

A rice cooker is very different than a bread machine! LOL

I'm curious how many of you have and use stainless steel bread pans for making bread? I haven't seen one and doubt I'd use one. Might be a hint as to why they haven't made them for bread machines yet.

eleena - I like the clay bread pan because I don't grease it. I put a piece of parchment in it which makes it easy to clean and the bread turns out nicely. I also bake my bread on a stone sometimes and sometimes in my LC dutch oven. I've got a ceramic loaf pan for 1 pound loaves, but I prefer the methods I listed, more than the ceramic loaf pan.

There are non-stick frying pans on the market now, which are coated with a safe material, not Teflon. I imagine bread machine manufacturers will start coming out with that type of coating before long.

Thank you everyone!

I have used clay bread pans that are made in the USA by Salmon Falls Pottery. They have baked excellent laoves for me.

I also bake bread in my cast iron loaf pans made by the Lodge manufacturing Company. They are made in the USA as well. They are also excellent.

I sometimes use my Zojurushi bread machine to make my whole grain bread when I am very busy. I, too, have been concerned about the non stick coating.

I finally broke down and purchased the Bosch Universal Plus which can handle kneading heavy bread doughs. It's easy enough to bake several loaves and then freeze some, so I need to devote the time more often to doing just that, and phase out my bread machine. I sure wish I knew for sure if all these agencies are being truthful when they claim the non stick bread pans are safe. Hmmm... truthful? I suspect not.

A LC dutch oven sounds like a great idea to try for a nice round loaf.

Sandy

Sandy, great minds think alike.
I made a no-knead bread in my Kitchen-Aid cast iron pot.
I like the KA because the lid handle is good for 500 degrees, so it's perfect for the rustic breads.

I for one am not going to worry about some non-stick poisoning. I'm much more likely to get plowed over by some 90 year old half blind man/woman that's still driving a car...so am I going to stop driving on the roads? NOT LIKELY!