Mornin' Sue!

Along the Anxiety front-
* Panic-attacks vary a lot, in intensity & duration.
* My Therapist, IN CONJUNCTION with Zoloft, took great care to point out that quite often, "triggers" aren't obvious. Many times, a lone cause can't be rooted-out.
* Our brains can sometimes go into the "fight-or-flight" response with no lucid trigger.
* An area of the brain, the Amygdala, is often involved.
* Consider reading the linked article...it's very good.
* Pay particular attention to the CBT section!
* This may sound corny, but I now have some experience in this category...;-)
* CBT WORKS. I'm living proof.

Note:
Sometimes I got embarrassed (at MYSELF) when my Therapist would ask things like "...and what are the odds of that ACTUALLY happening?", or "do you see now...how you're CREATING a fear?"!!

NOT trying to detract from you or your thread here dear Sue. I noted this stuff here 'cuz it's an increasing possibility.

Faron

Ditto what Faron said and assume his missing link is to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I don't have panic attacks but SO does and his definitely do not pass in a few minutes. He has gotten relief with medication and CBT and the CBT has made the occurrences a rarity. If your physical tests come back negative, it is worth exploring.

I echo Kellie. I think it's panic attacks also. And yes, they can come out of the blue when you have no stress. I have a friend who started getting them for no reason, she wasn't overly stressed about anything, but they hit her and they lasted for about a year then went away.

If it were me, I'd call the doctor to see if he/she would prescribe a low dose Xanax. IMO, how else can you rule out panic attacks? If it's something totally unrelated and the Xanax doesn't work, then you know it's not a panic attack.

I'm no pill pusher, but these are easily managed without having to spend hundred's of dollars on tests and psychiatrists.

I agree w/ some of Oakley's post, but to just try a pill/scrip ONLY...barely addresses half the issue.

I USED TO think the same way...a pill will make panic/anxiety go away or nearly disappear. Zoloft/similar scrips DO help some, and often the patient is comforted by that.

>>> BUT....once the scrip is ended, people usually relapse, without truly knowing WHY this happened to them. The condition (& some despair about that alone) MAY worsen....
* I didn't want to start with a therapist!
* I only agreed because my DW & Cardiologist said I should try it, and were supportive.
* It's the best damn $$ I've EVER spent (CBT).
* I was on Z for a year, then began the ~1mo. taper. I started the CBT ~1mo. after starting Z.
* Turns-out.......after ~ 6 months, most of my "recovery" was because of CBT.

Faron

Well, like I said, hopefully I'll have test results tomorrow and if all are negative, I need to ask the dr. if it makes sense to try a med. to rule out the panic attacks. It is starting to make sense, of course, and yet I can make a case for the other possible options too. Except that I really have no family history or other reason to think I have a sugar or thyroid problem. If I go down the list of typical symptoms for all three problems, I have about half of them in all three cases.

Spending money on medical care is the least of my worries. We have good insurance!

I think panic attacks, or at least anxiety, can also be related to menopause, right? I am getting to that age...no hot flashes but definitely have the frequent brain fog, moodiness, temperamental skin, etc.

Wishing the best for you Sue!!

I sure hope it's something relatively harmless/easily treatable.

Faron

Faron is right that if indeed it is a panic disorder that the therapy needs to go hand in hand with any medication. I can't stress enough that Xanax is NOT a benign drug. It has good and very bad sides to it. It is habit forming and it requires cont. increases in dose to be effective over long periods of time and the most important...it can NOT be stopped suddenly. It is a powerful medication and not one to be treated lightly. Faron is 100% on the mark with all he has said. c

Hypothyroid is not like a panic attack, but hyperthyroid is. You can get heat like hot flashes, tremors, insomnia, heart palpitations and racing heart, sweats, you get ravenous, can lose weight, insomnia, muscle weakness and intolerance to heat...and while they say stress might trigger it, there really is no known trigger for it....it is an autoimmune disease where the body starts attacking the thyroid. (Graves disease.) If you get it severe enough you can suffer a thyroid storm which can be life threatening leading to a stroke or heart attack. So I'm glad you are getting checked out physically.

I remember when I had my first bout of Graves, I thought I was under too much stress and having panic attacks, but mother made me go to the medical doc first where I was diagnosed right away. They put me on medication which helped tremendously.

Hypothyroid is not like a panic attack, but hyperthyroid is. You can get heat like hot flashes, tremors, insomnia, heart palpitations and racing heart, sweats, you get ravenous, can lose weight, insomnia, muscle weakness and intolerance to heat...and while they say stress might trigger it, there really is no known trigger for it....it is an autoimmune disease where the body starts attacking the thyroid. (Graves disease.) If you get it severe enough you can suffer a thyroid storm which can be life threatening leading to a stroke or heart attack. So I'm glad you are getting checked out physically.

I remember when I had my first bout of Graves, I thought I was under too much stress and having panic attacks, but mother made me go to the medical doc first where I was diagnosed right away. They put me on medication which helped tremendously.

If a person takes Xanax every six hours or so as prescribed, then they'll get addicted.

Let's say Sue has panic attacks. She takes a xanax, it makes it go away. The next panic attack doesn't come back for another week. So she takes another xanax. That won't get her addicted.

If panic attacks are consistent, day after day, then I would definitely go to p-doc, but not for attacks that come every week or other week.

After all the tests she's already had, I'm not understanding why the doctor hasn't treated her for a panic attack, just to be sure.

"After all the tests she's already had, I'm not understanding why the doctor hasn't treated her for a panic attack, just to be sure."

Maybe, just maybe, the doctor knows something that forum participants don't!

"After all the tests she's already had, I'm not understanding why the doctor hasn't treated her for a panic attack, just to be sure."

...because she is still waiting for the test results.

Well, like I said, hopefully I'll have test results tomorrow....

"because we are embarking on a very active family vacation in a month and all of this is making me nervous about that"

Just logging in for the first time in a long time. Sue I hope you can get some answers from the testing that's been done.

When we travel on extended trips, it can sometimes wig me out with the prep, etc. You've got alot going on, so if you're having a panic attack, there's alot you can do (kellyeng great plan, btw), with yoga, mediation, and natural oils before using meds. Not that meds are a bad thing when used properly, WITH THERAPY, but the yoga, etc. helps you relax greatly unassisted by anything but your body.

Not to belabor the yoga, but the crick in your back that we all get from perhaps moving around alot more being that it is the start of the warmer weather, would benefit from any form of stretching out. It's relaxing to stretch out. All you need is a spot on the floor and a towel.

Also, as we age, our bodies react to everything in life differently then when we were 30, 40, etc. At that age there are so many life changes taking place within our families; kids going off to college, etc. Sometimes we think we're going with the flow, when in fact we're actually bottling up emotions. Not a great combo with our advancing age, hormones. Can be a perfect storm for many physical manifestations. Whatever the results may be, I hope you find a path of resolution that works for you individually.

I agree with Faron and Trail about the medication. Of course I am one that does not want to take any medication unless absolutely necessary. I would rather try an alternative, if possible. I like Kelly's ideas - if it is a panic attacks. Plus you're already adding one new medication - the bp meds.

I don't know much about panic attacks. I believe I've had a couple of mild ones - but they were at times of extreme stress/shock and they were short-lived and not something I've experienced since.

Are you seeing a family practitioner or what? I would strongly suggest an internist - or better yet, I really like the idea of the endocrinologist. Anyone with blood sugar issues would do themselves a favor to see an endocrinologist. According to others here, you seem to have some sypmtoms of panic attacks. But you also seem to have symptoms of other medical issues. Hopefully your test results will shed some light on matters. I hope they soon get to the bottom of this!!!

tina

Why go to a psychiatrist when you don't even know if you have panic attacks and you don't feel stressed out?

I don't see what the big deal is for a doctor to prescribe only one pill to take the next time this happens. How else can you rule out a panic attack? She's got the classic symptoms.

It reminds me of the time when I went to the ER because I couldn't breathe. Just out of nowhere I could hardly catch my breath, and I was in my 30's. The doctor got a syringe out and said, "If this works that means you have asthma." It worked immediately.

And then is when I went on a program with my doctor on how to control it.

I'm not saying Sue should get a big prescription to xanax and pop them all the time. lol.

One low dose pill is all it takes. That's how I found out I was having anxiety attacks, but not full fledged panic attacks. Like asthma, they come out of nowhere.

Why go to a psychiatrist when you don't even know if you have panic attacks? Isn't that like the cart pulling the horse?

I don't see what the big deal is for a doctor to prescribe a small amount of pills to take the next time this happens. Why make her suffer and feel like she's dying? Because that's what a full fledged panic attack feels like.

If the med helps, only then is when she might consider a p-doc.

Please reread what I've written. Nowhere did I say that she should get a prescription and keep popping pills, because that will lead to addiction. A pill every now and then as needed, won't.

there's a significant difference between having generalized anxiety disorder and occasional panic attacks...
half the battle with panic attacks is having the ability to recognize what is going on and then practice breathing, etc to help regulate resp and heartrate... becoming increasingly agitated over the 'panicy' feelings makes the 'panic attack' worse...

xanax can be a very useful tool for situations which can cause a person situational anxiety/panic--- ie: flying, dental visits, mri's, etc.
i would be wary of a md who is willing to prescibe a controlled substance antianxiety med (xanax, ativan, valium, etc) to be taken daily as the ONLY way to cope with anxiety, unless it is for a very limited time, situational stressor... (ie- divorce, death of a spouse/child, etc...)

Aren't some of you jumping the gun here? It seems like you are beyond a diagnosis and already arguing about treatment, when she hasn't even gotten her test results back yet!

There are physical ailments that can lead one to have various symptoms of various types that can mimic panic and anxiety attacks. These physical ailments need to be ruled out first. Otherwise you are just treating symptoms and leaving physical ailments with potentially serious consequences go untreated.

So please stop arguing and let's wait and see what real doctors running real tests have to say. If I were sueb at this point, I'd be afraid to post again lest it start the Xanax Wars of 2013.

I hope you get some answers soon, Sue!

Thank you, AnnieD. I was trying to formulate a response in my head while reading the arguments (people! don't stress me out!) but you did it for me. Thanks.

I called the doc's office this morning and they did not have the test results back yet -- so I don't know why they said they'd call me on Sat. afternoon! Oh well. In the meantime, I talked to my own doctor, who is an internist, who says she is also wondering about anxiety attacks but obviously wants to see the test results and if appropriate will refer me to an endocrinologist.

I have felt mostly fine yesterday and today, FWIW. I would just like those test results so I can get some answers. I won't bother going into the stressors of my life here, but the more I think about it, I wouldn't be that surprised if this was all a response to a build up of stress -- several years of big stresses, which (ahem) I THOUGHT I was dealing with brilliantly, possibly "tipped over" by a bunch of smaller stresses lately as well as a degree of hormonal upheaval thanks to perimenopause.

I have not said whether or not I'm going to make medication or not, and no one has prescribed any to me, so please, friends, let's not argue about that.

PS when I talked to DH about the possibility of panic attacks he said, "Well, you are wrapped pretty tight. Just sayin'." So there you have it.

The meds/no meds issue sounds more like a discussion than an argument - and a very interesting one at that.

Luckily, none of us here have any say so in Sue's treatment. ;-)

Regardless of what you have, while you are waiting, it wouldn't hurt to cut back on refined carbs, eat balanced meals and snacks that include protein and fat with any carbs you do eat. It also wouldn't hurt to try meditation. There are meditations on healing and stress reduction. They have no negative side effects and have positive effects for soothing a troubled body and mind. If you are interested, go to the link below to listen to the podcasts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Meditation Oasis podcasts

Sueb I hope you get some answers soon and start feeling better!

sueb20, you may have something anxiety related, or you may not. Just be sure to get the appropriate medical tests too, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

In 1992, I had two internists check my thyroid levels for a variety of reasons (no family history anywhere) and they were at the upper end of normal but within acceptable range. I was getting that tone along the lines of Now dear, it's probably just hormones, you are approaching that age, almost like little pats on the head and I was beginning to think, OK, so, I'm probably just a little nuts or hormonal and nothing is wrong :) Then an endo checked my Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) and I didn't have any. My thyroid was steaming away at the upper end of normal and nothing was stimulating it to do that. Other than the Graves disease that is :)

Take a deep breath and listen to your instincts. If doctors/friends tell you something that sounds 'kind of right', or sorta makes sense, but your gut is telling you something else, follow through until you know you've been heard. And best of luck, let us know.

Sue, your symptoms sound so very, VERY much like what youngest DD had years ago when at the height of her anxiety. The only thing you didn't mention was what she described as 'black coming in from the sides' of her vision. She would race to urgent care every time, as the incidents always occurred while driving. She was always told she was having an anxiety attack, but nothing was ever prescribed or was it mentioned she should see our family doc. It was me who finally couldn't take it anymore and made an appointment. Thru the years she has had anxiety on and off(always taking meds to control)the last time being when she had a baby. She was given the name of a MD as well as holistic practioner who tested for hormones(saliva),and her progesterone level was very low. Since then she has been taking a natural(not synthetic)hormone, with the dosage being monitored via lowering the dosage. She has said she has never felt better in her life!

If you're of the age that you could be starting menopause, that's reason enough to get this test taken. When hormones get out of 'whack', life as you knew it can become a living hell on earth. We 're all touched by it with symptoms, some worse than others, but in these modern times there's no need to. Good luck, Sue!

Sue, your symptoms sound so very, VERY much like what youngest DD had years ago when at the height of her anxiety. The only thing you didn't mention was what she described as 'black coming in from the sides' of her vision. She would race to urgent care every time, as the incidents always occurred while driving. She was always told she was having an anxiety attack, but nothing was ever prescribed or was it mentioned she should see our family doc. It was me who finally couldn't take it anymore and made an appointment. Thru the years she has had anxiety on and off(always taking meds to control)the last time being when she had a baby. She was given the name of a MD as well as holistic practioner who tested for hormones(saliva),and her progesterone level was very low. Since then she has been taking a natural(not synthetic)hormone, with the dosage being monitored via lowering the dosage. She has said she has never felt better in her life!

If you're of the age that you could be starting menopause, that's reason enough to get this test taken. When hormones get out of 'whack', life as you knew it can become a living hell on earth. We 're all touched by it with symptoms, some worse than others, but in these modern times there's no need to. Good luck, Sue!

I think you are a bit dehydrated.

Nancy

Holy cow - I thought it was just a discussion also. I'm sorry the remarks on the medications stressed you Sue. I (and I think most of us) was just giving an opinion of what I would do if I were in your shoes. I don't think anyone was saying to go ahead with any kind of treatment before getting your test results.

tina

I got stressed out by this thread and I'm not even having problems. :)

For the record, I was joking about being stressed out by the comments here.

AnnieD, I have been eating as you suggest since Fri when the NP recommended it -- based on her feeing that this was glucose related. I'm a pretty healthy eater in general and have actually been doing WW online for the past month, and ironically earlier this year was following a sugar-busters type plan. I'm always on a quest to lose that extra 10 lbs! Meditation, on the other hand...I know, I know, and I have tried it in the past and just wasn't great at sitting still. And yes, I know that's all the more reason to try again!

I did look at yoga classes last night -- I know it helps so many people and even if this turns out to be not stress related, I know in general I could use a little stress reduction!

You have all been helpful and I really appreciate hearing all the different experiences. Thanks! Maybe I'll get the d-mn test results today?

And no, I'm not dehydrated. I drink water all day, and pretty much only water except for one cup of coffee in the morning. (When this was looking like a cardiac thing, I dropped from 2-3 cups a day to just one, which I thought would be harder than it was! Maybe eventually I'll cut it out entirely.)

I'm glad you were joking and we're not adding to your stress! LOL

I am one who cannot get into meditation. I don't know, I can sit quietly and think my thoughts, I pray, etc. but true meditation is not me. I think it is great that others do it and get so much from it. Different strokes for different folks.

As for yoga - I have done it and do bits on my own but have not had the luck in my rural area of finding a class I truly like. I am more interested in it for flexibility but I think it could be calming too.

Hope you do get your results today and will let us know.

You mention you changed your diet in the past month before the cardiac episode. Maybe there's a connection. Are you eating WW brand foods? I wonder if they have additives (fat burning, for instance, or just lots of preservatives) in there that are affecting your system. Otherwise, maybe the diet change and sugar adjustment is still related in some way.

Nope, not eating the WW food...

Okay friends, just a quick update because I don't have a lot of time but over these past several days the pattern of these episodes (which have been minor but still there in varying degrees) has made it more and more clear to me that they are anxiety related. And as many friends have reminded me, in general when you don't get blood tests results from a doctor (that clinic still has not returned my calls, which is incredible) it usually means they're negative. I'm sure that's not the case all the time but in the grand scheme of things, anxiety is making a WHOLE lot more sense than a glucose or thyroid issue. Who knows why those first couple scary episodes came about when they did about 3 weeks ago, but when I think about the number of stressors that took place around the same time, it kind of makes sense. I have no why my body has picked NOW to backfire, but it is what it is. My primary care doctor, who has known me for about 15 years, says she feels comfortable going on this hunch (let's just say she has talked to me before about trying meditation and yoga!). I'm seeing her next week to discuss the options for dealing with this.

My #1 stressor is my oldest DS, and that's a story for another day, but he is probably moving out within the next week, which will (I think) help my mental state a lot!

So I just wanted to update you all since you've been so great about offering feedback.

And BTW I am really annoyed that my body/brain has (have?) betrayed me in this way!

Glucose and thyroid, menopause, medical conditions can have symptoms of anxiety. If you already experience it or are stressed, those things can make it worse, as can certain foods. So it can still all be inter-related.

If you get heart palpitations, take a deep breath. I'm not sure if it goes away that means it is just anxiety or not though! lol But it works for anxiety.

Heart palpitations, light headed circulatory problems are not a good thing. So I would still be careful and not push yourself too much. Your cardiovascular system is reacting irregularly for some reason. You don't want to exacerbate a situation like that.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Thu, May 30, 13 at 22:38

I am so glad that you have a primary MD that is SO responsive to you . What a rarity that is . I worked in the Health Care field from 1986-2004. And before and after that I had much contact with MD's due to my parent's health. I can count on one hand the number of Dr's that I would recommend to anyone.

You are already a huge step towards gaining control of this issue just having a professional that is supportive and open to you and your situation. Also you being open and aware of your personal situation is a big step towards recovery. Denial is more detrimental than the actual process of the disease , in many cases. Kudos to you and your MD!

I am so glad you shared this here on the forum. It is a topic that needs discussing. c

I understand how you feel. We try to do everything right yet, things backfire anyway.
I echo everyone else is being glad you are on track to solving this heath issue.
Things happen that we cannot control. You didn't cause this to happen to you and why your body is reacting this way is just the way it is. What you do have control over is exactly what you are doing. Getting to the bottom of things and then getting the proper treatment.
Keep us posted.

Hi Sue,

Hopefully getting an accurate diagnosis and a treatment plan underway will, itself, reduce some stress.
I hope things get a little easier, and that you can just go enjoy your vacation!

I see a play in this somewhere.... Diagnosis By Internet...

Good luck in figuring this out.

I would still want those test results and make sure you get the actual numbers and the ranges on the thryroid tests. There have been big disagreements in the medical community about what the appropriate ranges are for some of the tests...some labs have narrowed them and some have not.

The tests you should be looking at are the TSH and the Free T4, and perhaps the Free T3 as well....

Also, make sure you are getting enough fat and a balance of fats in your diet as all hormones are made out of fat so you need enough in your diet. Fish oil and flax seed oil (cold pressed that is kept refrigerated and high lignan) can help.

You want to make sure your test results are negative and not just lost in the ether somewhere...

LOL, Kswl! Whenever I tell my doctor I looked something up on the Internet, he says, "Turn the computer off."

But you know what? I have diagnosed myself before, more than a few times, and went to him and he would confirm the illness. Only mild maladies though.

Gentle coughing will alleviate the palpitations and it's also recommended if someone thinks they're having a heart attack. The coughing can forstall going into full cardiac arrest until help arrives. I get 'flutters' ocassionally, and a couple of coughs stops them immediately. Sue, I hope you get to the bottom of this soon. I know how nerve wracking it can be.

Thanks all -- just made an appt. with my dr for Monday morning so I'll see what she says. Yes, I really like my PCP. She is conservative with medications so I doubt that she's going to say, Here's some Xanax, see you later. In my internet diagnostic research, I read that beta blockers are sometimes diagnosed for high BP and/or anxiety. She told me to hold off on the BP meds that the cardio dr prescribed, and I wonder if she will propose a beta blocker instead. Of course this is based on one article online. I have no idea what she'll do. She may re-do some of the blood tests too.

This week I have noticed that the times I have this "feeling" (which is basically turning into the same routine -- feeling like I can't breathe, when in fact of course I can, sweaty palms, and sometimes a weird feeling like I have to go to the bathroom, sorry, TMI?) happens in mainly two situations: in the car and when I'm thinking/talking about the possibility of panic attacks! Okay, duh -- guess this is pretty psychological.

it really is amazing how much the brain plays into one's 'health'...
and, how much learning to recognize s&s of anxiety/panic and practicing simple breathing /relaxation techniques can help!!!
figuring out which technique/s work best for you is key! (just don't choose a martini! lol)

i would be surprised if she prescribed a beta blocker unless it's thought that there's some heart involvement ... she prob won't prescribe it just for anxiety...

Sounds like you are moving in the right direction sueb20. We have a dear friend who is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor. I like to meander through his blog and always find such words of wisdom.

Finally, it can be very helpful to see anxiety as simply a reflex tool that is attempting to help with a perceived problem. We donâÂÂt choose it consciously. It happens to us. We donâÂÂt want it and we donâÂÂt deserve to be oppressed by it. We donâÂÂt have to âÂÂgrin and bear itâÂÂ.

Anyway, not trying to solicit business for him but thought this may help a bit.

Here is a link that might be useful: Anxiety: Friend or Foe?

It's official -- finally got the call from the other doctor's office this evening -- all tests were normal. So I'm just losing my grip. Now is that good news or bad news?? LOL. To be continued...

Interesting dee. Somewhere I was reading or watching, something similar, with depression. Pay attention -- your body is letting you know you need to make a change.

I'm glad to hear the tests came back normal, ((Sue)). I had anxiety when I was younger as well as migraine headaches, and after menopause miraculously disappeared. For years it was believed by many drs. it was all in womens heads, but thankfully we're past that point. Hopfully your dr will do a hormone saliva test. It's it's recommended you need hormones go to a homeopathic practitioner for a natural rather than synthetic type.

That's good news that your test results are normal.

My Mom had a few bad anxiety attacks after a traumatic experience and she found body massage helped her a lot.