You see this why Henry VIII killed so many of his wives. lol Really - they are a somewhat quirky quasi normal family and are now being spotlighted due to the marriage of their first child.

I realize it is bad form as far as royal protocol is concerned, however, Catherine's siblings didn't marry the future king. Not sure about you, but I could share some stories about friends of my own, as well as friends of my DD that would curl your hair. Perhaps I am viewing differently because I've seen similar stuff in my own life, sans selling to the media. We're just not that important:).

Also, bathing topless is very much the norm rather than the exception in many places!

Topless bathing is not the social taboo in many places that it is here. Right or wrong we here in the States have a reputation for being prudes.

The problem isn't with the Middleton family. As maire cate said, it's prudish Americans.

I think a family with adult children who like each other well enough to holiday together, with significant others, is wonderful.

I read that Jackie Kennedy, of all people, sunbathed topless (in certain locales.) I was so surprised by that, as I think of her as being an icon of all that is prim, proper & appropriate! She was of course, also a fashion icon, and let's face it...tan lines simply ruin the look of an outfit! One must have their priorities in order.

Both fashion and fun seem important to the Middleton children, and from Moonshadow's posted info, all the offspring sound quite free-spirited! As I recall the dress Kate was wearing when she first caught the eye of the Prince was a little "out of the box," and not exactly demure!

Not too long ago Prince Harry thought it would be funny to dress up as a Nazi. He made the decision despite being taught about conduct and decorum since the day he was born. The Middleton photos are embarrassing but (to me) they aren't shocking or surprising.

The problem is that every tipsy, ill advised, stupid decision made by young people is cell phone photographed and chronicled on Facebook. I am supremely grateful that there were no cell phone cameras during my college days.

I am supremely grateful that there were no cell phone cameras during my college days.

Oh my goodness, isn't that the truth!

So what would they be able to find if *every* bit of semi-dirt was dug up on you and every member of your immediate family? You know how hard the papparazi are looking and what those embarassing photos might be worth?

I have to say that with as hard as they've been looking, what they've found so far is pretty mild...

Some family "friend". People are jerks, aren't they?

Now the parents have filed a complaint with a British agency to get the topless Pippa pic yanked from the internet.

I don't know who they expect to remove pictures from the internet. Once that cat's out of the bag, there is no putting it back in.

I think that they are making a mistake by drawing more attention to the pictures by taking action in court. And Kate did apparently really catch Will's eye by participating in a lingerie fashion show.

Fist, I was coming from a place that I didn't make clear. Know what I want to say, fumbling for the right words tho. Spring allergies fog my brain. ;)

Of course if anyone dug deep enough they'd find "dirt" in my background and every member of my family's. And yours and anyone else's too. But nobody cares. This is different, and am trying to lead up to that.

We could cite illustrations of royal 'fun' to 'scandal' from today going back centuries, yes, but I'm strictly referencing this situation. Also, another consideration is as dee mentioned we do have cell phones cameras. And also the world wide web. Both of which allow for almost instant, international exposure, particularly if it goes viral. That didn't even exist as recently as most of Diana's years. The point with that is any moment could be easily captured and shot into cyberspace, and more difficult to squelch once out there. (How far reaching it goes all depends on who is in the photo & the content.)

AFA the latest topless photo, it's not about whether we're prudes and Europeans are not. If this was just a routine family vacation, where probably hundreds of families were doing the same things in the same areas, nobody would give a rip. But it wasn't routine with the heir to the throne on board. They knew it wasn't a routine trip even then. How many people have Scotland Yard strategically positioned in place (or whomever is the equivalent of our Secret Service guarding the Prince). And paparazzi tagging along. And it's been instilled in Wm since birth that as a direct heir to the throne, he is & always will be different & there are certain expectations from him. And now apparently it's enough of an issue even for the Middleton's that they feel it warrants filing a complaint to have them all yanked. Although no one else in the family is married to royalty, they were then (and are even more so now) in a position like no other family on the planet. And that's the reason those photos surfaced and a subsequent complaint was filed. The reason they cite is 'invasion of privacy' (albeit in a public place), however in all likelihood it's got everything to do with the path leading to the Palace. (And Her Majesty is probably not pleased.)

My point was prior to William's introduction, this family didn't typically spend Saturday nights or weekend getaways with British aristocracy, let alone royals. So they knew they were set apart to some degree. IOW, they were fully aware the path to the Palace was there (or potential for it) even at the time of the photos. We don't see pics of either William or Kate doing what the natives do in public, and again, there's a reason. (The Dress on the Runway occurred just prior to a romantic relationship with Wm.) So why so difficult for the rest to follow suit when in public and accompanied by the Prince? Rather than deal with what's transpired now - embarrassment for some of those in the highest positions in the UK. And running around putting out fires now that they are officially attached by marriage to the Royal Family?

And that's what I was focusing on. Guess I'm just completely weary of Girls and Boys Gone Wild mode being in our face everywhere. And that's not coming from a prudish place, it's just so tiring being constantly bombarded with those who need public attention frequently with one or more articles of clothing removed. (What disturbs me most about that is when my 12 yr old niece confides her confusion and obvious struggle with appropriate boundaries vs peer pressure after her good friend got in trouble for sexting. Then these kids turn around and hear about these things. My niece doesn't view if from all the angles we do. She only associates it with what she's studied, and so far it's titles like "Queen" "King" "Prince" and "Princess". So she's struggling on her own level in her world and at the same time seeing or hearing of similar behaviors connected to types of people she has studied in history classes. How confusing is that to an average tween girl in middle America, who's biggest debates involve topics like whether Justin Bieber is cool or dorky? ) I digressed again, but does it make sense where that goes?

Given the atypical situation with the Middletons, some of the pics come across as more about getting attention and less about respect. Where worldwide attention is focused and ears & eyes of all ages learn of it to varying degrees, would a little appreciation of and respect for the situation & guest's position be so difficult to muster? Or is our society so actively engaging and/or accepting of this that there are no boundaries or protocol, and it permeates all levels, even touching the throne of England? That's where my mind was going, and it's all just my .02. And I'm still not sure my foggy brain made the point I'm fumbling for. argh

"I'm just completely weary of Girls and Boys Gone Wild... in our face..."

I hear you, Moonshadow! It's time for Girls Gone Mild imo. But if you want to get your allotted 15 minutes of fame, I guess that increasingly requires the removal of clothing. Kind of silly really, because when it comes right down to it, we've all got just about the same equipment. When will it cease to be newsworthy that a girl has boobs? Will there ever be enough pictures in the world of them?

Yup, stinky, well put.

Can't imagine living in a fishbowl like members of royalty and some celebrities. The media vultures with their cameras are the real villains. People should be able to live their lives without constantly looking over their shoulder.

OT but people forget that there was a period when Jackie Onassis was considered the height of vulgarity when she first married Ari Onassis, and with her supposed $M shopping sprees. This is when the Spanish tabloid photos of Jackie sunbathing nude "Jackie La Nuda" were taken. John Jr also went to nude beaches in St Bart's.

Topless sunbathing is European commonplace, and England is part of the European community. Topless and nude sunbathing is also indulged in by many American's off-continent.

Not me, I try to maintain my prison pallor.

Yawn. I went skinny dipping at the river for decades. LOL!

I am guessing William was topless on the same vacation trip as Pippa. People need to grow up.

And part of the beauty of being grown up is the ability to respect another's viewpoint and where they might be coming from without making it personal.

I like les917' advice. I think she was referring to the general population as a whole, not any particular poster/contributor to this thread.

LOL Les. The guy in the french maid outfit would bother me more than the nude/topless photos. As others have said, topless sunbathing is so normal in other parts . . .

Anyway you know how I feel about the whole celebrity hubaloo, etc.

Goldie - glad to know I am not alone. I love skinny dipping and although it's not something I get to indulge in anymore, if the opportunity arose, I'd do it in a heartbeat! HA!

tina

I don't see what the fuss is on this one either--the Middleton family obviously was not posing or trying to gain publicity. The photos are snaps that are being shown are simply because they ARE a famous family. They didn't set out to become famous via the pictures.

As for skinnydipping, my husband and I do that quite often now that we go boating by ourselves, sans kids. It's a marvelous feeling to be bare nekkid in the clear, warm sea on a spectacular Florida summer day, blue skies, sunshine and sparkling water. Love it!

I did a poor job of being clear, so will try one last time. What propelled my thoughts, and prompted my post, was the timing of these incidents coinciding with my young niece's struggle with grasping what boundaries are OK and what aren't. (She just turned 12, quotes are her words.) She hasn't ever been permitted to be exposed to just anything, as much as her parents can control anyway. But at her age kids hear, see, share & talk about things, especially on the heels of a wedding that's created a tremendous buzz. What matters is she's confused about behavior & boundaries, photos & boundaries, attention (good or bad) and boundaries.

She knows it wasn't OK for her friend to send a pic text to a boy as a joke while wearing cami-top underwear & a neon wig at a birthday sleepover. A joke her friend did in a moment of 1 a.m. slumber party giddiness just after snapping pics of the family dog wearing his shaving cream beard. Sadly, my niece learned at a young age it's not OK for a grown man to collect photos of (at the time) 7-9 yr old children in group settings and then call them or stalk their public events. All she knows is he was a "creeper" who went to jail.

She recently saw a "famous wedding". And she doesn't quite get why the important maid of honor Pippa Long Stockings (what they call her due to her unusual name) "got more famous on the internet" for things that would bring either punishment or bad ("creeper") attention in my niece's world. And there was her "She knows about creepers, right?" comment. :/ She just simply doesn't understand where the boundaries of OK behavior start/stop. And frankly I don't either. Because it just keeps coming down the pike in droves. From the 6th grader doing it for 'approval' or whatever motivates them to the sister of the future queen, it's everywhere. And it would be nice to see the trend sway from a little less raunchy toward a little more self-dignity.

Hopefully it's a little clearer now where I was coming from. And if my thoughts and viewpoint result in me being viewed as a prude, not fully enlightened or unworldly, I have zero problem with that.

"She just simply doesn't understand where the boundaries of OK behavior start/stop. And frankly I don't either."

You know, I think this is a very valuable observation... Society -- no popular culture -- keeps moving the bar. Keeps lowering the bar.

Look at all the 'reality' shows about people behaving badly in one form or another - usually multiple simultaneous misbehaviors. So that's 'reality'?

I don't think so! And that's the message I try to convey to my boys -- That what they see on TV with the label 'reality' is simply NOT any kind of 'reality' that's acceptable to me or to most others. That these folks are making fools of themselves and exhibiting their poor character and judgement for all to see, and that I expect much, much better from them...

Now as to where the boundaries should be? Well, I think ultimately, each person has to make those decisions for themselves. As parents, I think it's important for us to shape our children's views and give them guidelines to live by. I think we should discuss not just *what* our views are, but *why* we hold those views and standards and why we feel they're important.

But when they're older teens, we need to begin allowing them the space to replace our values with their own. They're going to do it anyway -- and only by remaining non-judgemental and by supporting their rights to decide for themselves can we hope to remain involved in their decision-making.

So far, it's either working, or I've just been lucky ;-)

I think you are saying that you care deeply about your niece and want her to have role models who are wholesome; who exemplify good character, dignity and poise.

Maybe you are that role model, Moonshadow! I think that it is very difficult these days to find celebrities we actually want children to emulate.

Maybe the golden opportunity here is for you to invite a
discussion of her thoughts and concerns, and to share your own thoughts and concerns with her! She is so fortunate to have a caring aunt she can talk to openly about anything!
Young people aren't always told that sometimes even people who are very talented, who become very famous and successful, don't always make good choices or exercise good judgement! They may not recognize that even people who have extraordinary talents and lots of money, may not have acquired the tools needed to build a truly satisfying life.

I would ask a young niece to wonder: Could some people not even know they are being photographed? Is that fair? Is that nice? Does that mean we need to think about what we do in public and what we post on the internet very carefully? Does it matter what we wear and how we conduct ourselves? Is being famous and rich better than being kind and working hard to do our best?

As you explore these issues with your niece you will be helping her to clarify what her own values are, and can guide the formation of her value system. Then, no matter what sorts of pictures she sees, or what her friends say, she can refer to her inner compass, and the talks she has had with her aunt.

Lucky girl! Some young people only have the media and pop culture to build their beliefs and values on!