Either keep what you have or rip it out. I assume that the floor was installed over 1/4" underlayment. If that is so, then removal should take hardly any time at all.

What do you care about the warranty? Most are prorated when it comes to honoring them anyway (at least that is how it was when I was a vinyl installer). Floorguy, or someone working with vinyl today should be able to tell you how it works now. The flooring store should be replacing the flooring at their expense or offering you a very attractive settlement. Going over the existing with new underlayment and vinyl is NOT what I would recommend here. You don't want it done that way for good reasons. Another reason you didn't mention is vinyl that is cut up to vetical objects will eventually curl up at the edges...and then you will have an unattracive flooring result for sure.

What is that object at the bottom of the last picture? It looks like something that the vinyl was cut up to...or that someone 'attempted' to fit up to.

Hope this is resolved to your satisfaction.

Thanks for your comments Glenn. My intention is to have it replaced since that really is the correct and only way. I don't know how they will fix the sub floor - perhaps pull it up and relay it, but that is their problem.

What you see at the bottom of the pic is a wall. I obviously took the pic from overhead. This small wall does not have baseboard on it yet, so it's messy and unfinished.

Debi,

I am NOT a flooring expert, but...

Your 1/4 luan is not subfloor. It is underlayment that is meant to provide a smooth surface for the vinyl. I wonder if they skimped on stapling it properly to the subfloor before attaching the vinyl. This underlayment is meant to come up with the floor when it is removed.

I've done a lot of reading in preparation for a DIY vinyl floor, and keep reading that luan is not the best choice for underlayment. But all the flooring stores seem to use it.

Hi Susan:

When the store rep said "1/4" luan, I corrected her and said, "You mean plywood, right?" She said yes, then stated luan is just a common term they use for subflooring. Both Luan and plywood are quite different, even I know that.

I am aware what luan is because they originally put it down as our subfloor then had to pull it up a day later when DH and I complained of crackling when walking on it - like it was breaking down (eggshells). Luckily, at this time, they hadn't layed the vinyl yet.

I'm quite surprised at this flooring store because it's rated the BEST in our large county. Go figure.

Thanks though... and whatever you do with your floor, DO NOT let them use luan as a subfloor.

Luaun is fine for sheet vinyl underlayment. Epoxy is not used for seam preparation in vinyl installations, the cost would not make the installer competitive with the other stores. A cement or gypsum skim/patch product is typically used if anything at all. I don't see where anything was used in the effected areas you show. If patch had been used on those seams at those locations the patch would have crumbled by now and the crumbles would be showing through to the surface the same as the plywood seams are.

Was the vinyl a "total glue" or a "perimeter glue" installation. I can easily see the seams in the plywood through to vinyl as can you. The seams should have been stapled within an inch of the edge along all edges and the field stapled every four inches in all directions. If this is a "total glue" installation and the proper amount of glue was used and the proper trowel size was used to apply the glue, those loose seams would not be able to lift that vinyl in that fashion.

I fear there is more in the way of a faulty installation here than you are aware of.

If this was a "total glue" then the vinyl and the underlayment as well should be removed. All should then be replaced. If they try to remove only the vinyl and leave the underlayment and if it is luaun it is likely the stress of removing the vinyl could delaminate the layers of the luaun and you wouldn't know it right away and neither would they. Luaun isn't the best product for any purpose but its cheap.

If the vinyl is a "perimeter glue" then it could be removed and not damage the luaun.

At any rate, they shouldn't be allowed to go around a damned thing. The new install should be done exactly like the original install, that's what you paid for the first time around. You should require them to also remove (and replace) the baseboards. Get it in writing that any damages to the walls or paint or baseboard as a result of removing the baseboard will be repaired by a repairman of YOUR CHOICE and at THEIR EXPENSE.

These are trying to run-a-game on you I'm afraid.

Good advice from Bud Cline.

Just for informational purposes:

When referring to the 1/4" material that is installed over the subfloor...that is called, as susan said, "underlayment". Luan is plywood, but not all underlayment of this type is made from luan mahoganny.

Underlayment made from arctic birch or a similar nonresinous species is a better choice for flooring underlayment, but it is very difficult to find for sale sometimes. I have seen some excellent looking plywood underlayment at Lowes that is made in China of what looks like Birch. It is a five ply product, although the top and bottom plys seem unbelievable thin. My question is: "how do they do that?" It seems to be a well-constructed and smooth panel.

Bud's comment about gypsum or cement-based patches for seam areas is true. When using quality underlayment panels that are properly attached over properly prepared subflooring, sometimes all that is needed is just a touch sanding to remove a high spot.

I agree, you do need to get the job you paid for.

Bud:

Thanks for chiming in. Upon JUST remeasuring the thickness of the subfloor plywood, they used 1/2". The entire vinyl is glued down so I doubt it will comes up safely.

I remember them nailing or screwing or perhaps stapling the plywood all over, and then putting some kind of liquid that dries over the seams and all nails/screws/staples (whichever they used).

I agree that it's best to pull up everything and relay it properly. I remember having to do touch ups on my freshly painted walls and new cabinets after the install, so you know I'll be getting everything in writing.

Thanks again.

The use of 1/2" plywood may be a different story. 1/2" plywood underlayments (A-C) tend to be of better quality than the 1/4" luaun products. The surface lam (A-side) will be much thicker and less vulnerable-to-peel in my opinion. This isn't to say that is the case with your floor.:)

What Bud said and this...because your flooring is a new product, it could be stripped and the remaining surface prepared to receive the new covering. Of course, I doubt they are going to want to do that, as it involves lots of labor and preparation by someone who knows what they're doing.

Also, you can put new flooring over old directly...only after properly preparing the existing vinyl with embossing leveler and correcting for the humps. This can be done, but not all installers will do that kind of work either.

BTW, do these humps feel solid when you push down on them? Or, is there 'give' in the vinyl?

Glenn:

I prefer they don't put anything over the existing floor. I don't want my floors raised any higher than they need to be, so that's not an option for me.

There doesn't seem to be any give in the vinyl (a tight fit), but I'll get back to you tomorrow when I press down on the humps to let you know what I feel and observe.

Long, tiring day so I'm heading to bed.

Thanks.

When I see that, I usually find a crawl space that is damp, or a swimming pool, or an unacclimated building or panel, being installed. The underlayment being wood, needs to acclimate, to the interiors ambient conditions. The crawl space being moist will swell the panels, peaking the seams.

Glenn:

The humps are solid when I press on them. I did measure several hump areas and all of them have a 48" distance from hump to hump so that confirms that these are seams popping up.

I'm not looking forward to having my new kitchen torn apart, but my options are limited, especially if I want my floor done right.

The sub flooring was "sub standard" and that's why you're having problems. Seems the installer cut corners at your expense by not laying down the proper underlayment material for vinyl. I think your best option is to tear it all up and start over. So sorry you have to go through this.

UPDATE --

After coming by and checking out the floor again, I got a call from the store today saying the only way to repair the floor is to remove baseboards, appliances, granite/island, etc. and put down 1/4" luan, then vinyl overtop of the existing floor. They said they won't pull everything up because the previous floor that they layed last year with 1/2" plywood was screwed (tons of screws) into tongue and groove subfloor.

Do I have options? Thanks.

MMM MMM Good, a vinyl sandwich. Who's eating lunch. Get it? Eating lunch... Eating a floor, again

I'm not a pro, but I've been doing a lot of research about this exact issue in the last month, in preparation for a DIY project. (I was a professional woodworker before retiring, just not a flooring person). I just want to reiterate one thing about Luaun and to suggest what I think is the reason for the failure.

First, luaun is plywood, and, yes, it is commonly used, but it's a poor choice. It's smooth, but has many voids, which can compress after the vinyl is installed, with results similar to what you already have. Do not let them use luaun. The birch plywood mentioned above is good. Multiply is one brand name that is carried by my local Home Depot. It's 5mm thick.

As for what happened, I don't think what you are seeing is the underlayment having moved or buckled. Rather, I think they simply layed the vinyl over an uneven underlayment. Sometimes it can take a while for the vinyl to "sink" into the gaps, so you start out with a floor that looks fine. But as the months go by, things begin to get uglier. The only reason I point this out is to suggest that you be skeptical of any claims they might make about your house settling or "unknowns" or whatever. Now, if you had walls built below this floor or something in the meantime...and they pounded them in, it's possible this could lift a few joists, causing something like this, but, setting that aside, your 30 year old house probably did most of it's major settling a few years back.

Essentially, I mean to say that they did it wrong, period. There aren't any "unknowns" here that they can summon up to garner your sympathy.

As for the appropriateness of installing Multi-ply (not luaun) directly over your existing vinyl, I'm not qualified to judge. My suggestion would be to call another flooring expert in to have a look. Tell him/her in advance the reason for the visit and offer to pay for an hour of time.

The frustrating part about this stuff is that, even if the folks who installed this are willing to work with you, they may not be qualified to fix their own work.

I wish you well.

Thanks guitarman. I appreciate your time to reply. I'm thinking this issue will get ugly with the store because I know it can be done right (by pulling it all up and relaying), but they want to do a cheap, easy-out fix by covering it up. I won't take NO for an answer to get it the way it should be.

I will be asking for a report of their findings so I have it in writing - just in case. I want to know what is causing this, and then work on a solution from there, not just a fix to an existing problem that they created. At this point, no one is saying what the cause is, but they did say it's not moisture.

This is an extremely reputable place from all the awards they've won as the "BEST OF" in the county, but I'm beginning to wonder about that "so-called" reputation. It is my first time dealing with them.

We also think they should have layed the 1/2" ply in the opposite direction that the subfloor runs, which they didn't, and DH thinks this is most, if not all, of the problem.

I agree that it's wise to have someone else in the industry come out and evaluate this.

Thanks again.

When I worked with vinyl exclusively 99% of my installs were flawless...then there was that 1 out of 100 that for some inexplicable reason just wouldn't fall into line.

Gremlins!