Sadly, I can imagine it.

How timely of you to post this. I've been wanting to do a follow-up to my rant/question about what people spend on technology - cell, internet, land line. And most people who responded also bundle their TV/cable in there. I'd love to know about RE taxes and health insurance - not a specific dollar amount people spend (I'd never be THAT nosy!) but as a percentage of income which I think is far more important.

Whew, that is high! High pricetag and square footage too! Spare me the joy!

Dlm, I don't mind giving the dollar amount, just don't make me do a math problem and figure out a percentage! We pay $2000 a year in property tax on a 2600 sq. ft. house that sits on a 7300 sq.ft. lot.

Yeah, I will gladly share the $$ amount we spend for those other services if you start a thread!!

Come on though... $44,000/year? That is a pretty darned good annual salary right there. It is downright disgusting!

Less than 15 miles from the above home, we spend about $8,000/year for a 2800 sq ft home on roughly a 1/4 acre....

I'm in southern California. The 75-year old house has 1,950 SF on an 11,000 sf lot. Property taxes are just barely over $3,600 a year.

We're outside city limits so we've got a lower tax rate than my neighbors less than a mile away. Our house is 1620SF on 1/4 acre and our property tax is around $1700. Comparables in city limits are over $2700.

Dixiedo, property taxes are low in our little unincorporated corner of the world. If you saw the cleaning thread, you know how the size of our home compares to the one in your link and we have a little over 2.5 acres but our property taxes are less than yours. Most likely the services provided are less, too, but we're okay with that. In a small city about 10 - 12 miles from us, taxes on a similar house would be at least 3X what we pay.

dixie

I grew up in this neck of the woods. My entire family is there. I know RE Taxes are high, but that's ridiculous.

It's funny how different areas can be, even this close to each other.

Ballpark for 2100 sq ft townhouse in anchorage is 5,000 and 8000 sq ft with two city lots is around 10,000 in Washington. I'm shocked at eight grand for under three thousand feet...but I remember when we looked around in new York they were pretty shocking to me. 44 grand! Ouch!!!!

Well, get ready for the other side of the coin. We have 2,000 square feet on 3 acres. Property tax: $835.48 per year. And there is no separate school tax.

I'm in an unincorporated area of a county, commuting ditance to Birmingham, Alabama. But there aren't a lot of services and I have to pay separately for garbage pickup and fire protection. And I'm on septic (sewer doesn't run here). It's still a pittance compared to those other examples, though.

But we make up for it to a degree on the sales tax side (9-10% in most areas on everything, including clothing, groceries and prescriptions) and state income tax. Several years ago I was considering a job transfer to Texas, often considered a low-taxation state because of there being no state income tax. Fine, but the property and school taxes were incredibly high. By the time I factored those into my monthly mortgage payment, I wasn't getting much house for my dollar. We opted out of the transfer.

Its close in our neck of the woods, just $5,000 LESS than the 44K in the op. We recently won an abatement and it will be lowered soon. Health ins. is another outrageous amount, it just went up to $3,000.00 per month, we reduced that to $2,300.00 by changing plan to higher copays and RX.

Whoa! Hang on everybody - should this be on a different thread? I SO appreciate your willingness to share. Have to run now but I'll start a new, non hijacked thread later or if someone else wants to, that's fine with me.

Deb

I don't think the tax on the original house is all that high in proportion to the value of the property. The price is 1.5 million, taxes are 44K. That means the property tax rate is 3%.

I live in Florida where property tax rates skew very low for longtime owners, as we are. I pay $3200 a year for taxes and about the same for insurance-including windstorm coverage. So our carrying costs annually are only ~$500/month since we own our home outright. Nice to know that we only really need that much to keep a roof over our heads. Of course that would be a roof without any lights or AC, and nothing to eat...but still in today's world it is a comfort.

Ann

True, Runninginplace! High price tag, high square footage, I guess a high tax bill comes with the territory.

This is a good thread for those considering home ownership for the first time to review! Suze Orman asks first-time buyers all the time to consider carefully that owning a house involves so much more than just the price of the house! Taxes, insurance, maintenance, and add to those meat and potato responsibilities the costs of "upgrading," decorating and furnishing, and who doesn't feel dizzy when adding it all up? It's helpful and smart, to really examine the big picture.

Is everyone comparing the same thing? Our tax bills are assessed twice a year, once for "property" and once for "school."

Are some posters stating the total tax bill and others just the property portion?

I'm right in there with Jakabedy. Property taxes are LOW here. Although our house is on a bit more than an acre, our taxes are around $800. I'm in a small (also unincorporated) rural area between a large city and a not-so-large (but touristy) city.

Our sales tax is 9.25%, but we do not have a state income tax.

tina

Ours are lumped together in both states barb so I'm just giving total taxes (as the listing would do also most likely).

But to address anns comment...my house is comparable in sq ft to the listed home we are talking about as well as price and my taxes are less than a quarter of the new York prices. We found that fairly consistently when comparing Duluth and Washington to the areas of new York or connetcuit we were looking at. The taxes were painful! I don't know how someone on a fixed income could manage to keep their home at those prices.

Barb where do you live that property and school are broken out and billed separately? Is that your state method or something more local?

Our stats: and you'll see why I'm so interested in this subject

1926 home, updated, "graded" on property tax bill as Very Good Condition (not sure if they give that info where any of you are)

Total sq footage: approx 3000, heated sq footage approx 2600 (enclosed porches are taxed at a different rate here)

Lot size: approx 60 x 160 - under 10,000 sq feet

Last year taxes: $14,278 (we are billed one year in arrears due to a tax amnesty offered during the war). When we moved here in 2000 the taxes were just over 5K and we've done all the upgrades honestly and with permits, part of the reason for the increase. The rest is increased market value. This year SHOULD go down due to decreased value and the housing slump BUT the multipliers have not yet been set and each taxing body that is part of our total property tax bill can adjust their portion of the multiplier to compensate for decreased housing value, thus ensuring them a consistent working budget. And ensuring the homeowners never get a break.

One of the items on our local ballot yesterday was a $133 million referendum for the high school district (k thru 8 is a different district). It's the first school referendum I voted no. It didn't pass. People are fed up.

I live in an old bedroom suburb of Chicago, new subdivisions don't exist here. Tear downs are common. Our next door neighbor tore down a turn of the century, 2500 sq ft four square and built a 4000+ sq ft stone facade, multi gable whatever on a lot approx 15,000 sq ft. Their taxes are 26,000.

The subject for my next thread will be along the lines of Help Me Find A New Place To Live!

Very Truly Yours,

Deb (who is still looking for that money tree I planted)

Our taxes for schools and property are combined and billed twice a year - our taxes on a 2700 sq ft home in a Central OH suburb - are just under $8000. And our community has a school bond coming up in May to raise my taxes $200 per $100,000 of house value, so I'll see another $900 added on if it passes.

These taxes are just for government/schools etc. I pay for water, sewer, trash etc. separately. The nicest thing I get for my tax dollars is our town is excellent in snow removal. My kids go to Catholic Schools, so I don't even get to benefit from the school taxes I pay...

My school and property taxes are also combined. We get a separate water/sewer/garbage tax bill that is very minimal.

Carole, if you think about it, you do benefit from the school taxes you pay, even though your children attend Catholic schools. Think of the consequences if the children around you who can't afford to attend private or parochial schools were not educated! Really, you are contributing to the welfare of society by supporting public schools, and helping to build a better nation! A strong America is dependent upon being a well-educated America! I don't have children at all, and I consider tax money that goes toward education to be one of the better ways my tax dollars are spent.

Many years ago, we were looking at homes in Nassau County, NY, northern Bergen County, NJ, and Fairfax County, VA. For $1 in taxes in Fairfax County, a comparable home would pay $2 in Bergen County and $4 in Nassau County.

My state breaks them out separately.

I used to like this as it let me keep track of what was what. But they are both going up way beyond the rate of inflation.

I live in a state that has an income tax, very high property taxes, a high sales tax, and one of the highest rates for electricity. And even with all of that, a large budget gap.

My stats: 2300 sq ft of living space on a little more than 3 acres.Property taxes (including school) last year were $7200.00 No water, no sewer, no garbage pickup. We had to dig a well, build a septic system, and we truck our garbage to the dump.

Dlm, your tax situation is terrible! We are afraid to add on to our home because it will increase our property taxes. I have transformed DD's bedroom into an office, so we have no guest bedroom. I would have loved to have put a small addition on for library/office, but we are too scared of triggering more property taxes.

Deb, is it a good guess that you'll be moving upon retirement? Wow! I can understand your interest in the topic.

We used to own a second home that was about 2800SF (heated & cooled, + porches & 3 car garage) on approx. 1/3 acre. It sold after the recession began for about $260K. Because we couldn't claim homestead exemption (we saved that for our primary residence) our taxes were higher than most paid for similar houses. We paid about 1/10 of your property taxes, even though there we paid city and county taxes vs. just county taxes here.

In both cases, the property taxes included school taxes (have never had those billed separately) but did not include public library, trash collection or fire protection. Library dues are $15/yr. Trash collection is $140/yr. I don't recall the exact fire dept. dues offhand, but think they're about $500/yr. (they were much less on the other house.)

There's a site you may want to check out: city-data.com. It has a vast amount of information on cities and towns in every state.

I've never heard of an "unincorporated area."

What does that mean?

An unincorporated area is an area outside of a city or municipality.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wikipedia on Unincorporated areas

My property tax stats in northern, mostly rural, NY:

Ancient house (over 150 years, so we get a reduced rate on it) of slighty less than 2K sq ft on over 100 acres; combined school and property taxes were nearly 7K last year. No doubt will be higher this year. We get a "break" (ha-ha) because we have no central heat and one part of our house has only dirt floors (and that section isn't in the cellar, either).

Until a few years ago I also owned a property in northern VA, near enough to DC to be in a very desirable location (Rappahannock Co.) When I sold it, it had a market value of more than 50% more than my old NY farm does (then, or now). At the same time it had a total annual property tax burden of only about $1,500. That same year I paid 6K up here.

I was completely floored by the low, low rate of VA taxes.

I don't mind sharing our health insurance costs, if someone wants to start a thread about it. I think it's useful to know about other people's expenses, taxes, phone rates, etc., as it helps alert you to where better deals are, or at least makes you feel like one of the (long suffering)crowd.

L

Our property tax is annual, and it includes fire, police, County services and schools. The schools are broken into K-12 and higher ed. Garbage, sewer and water are separate utilities that are not covered under taxes. Also because we live outside the city, we don't pay for library, and as such, we have to pay the library an annual fee to use it.

Property taxes have a ceiling of 3% annual increase and are based on assessed value, not market value. I think those that live in the rural areas pay an even lower rate, because they don't have fire service, they pay a private fire company.

Also, due to the river that runs through my town, there are two different counties under the same city name. Those on the west side of the river pay a lower overall tax assessment than those of us on the east side, but that's primarily due to the fact that the west side is less populated with fewer services.

Wow....pay a separate bill for fire...what happens if you miss that payment?

Our tax bill seemed big to me until shopped around. Chicago is NUTS! Our taxes do not include water and sewer (mine runs around $150 a month in the winter and ungodly high in the summer). Trash is a private company and I guess I thought everyone paid for a library card lol.

My little guy will go to private school but that's one bill I don't begrudge (though I often question their spending) because an educated community is a happy community. But I do understand when deb says enough is enough and get why that tax didn't pass.

Deb....try the pacific northwest :) it sounds almost free in comparison lol

"Wow....pay a separate bill for fire...what happens if you miss that payment?"

Two things have happened here (not in my fire district, but in another one in an adjacent county):

1) The fire district can sell the property to recoup the unpaid fire dues, kind of like a tax sale. It works like a tax sale with the owner having to pay the "investor" interest to get the property back. Folks were rioting in the streets about that one.

2) The fire department can sit and watch your house burn. Folks didn't like that so much either. The guy ran out and offered to pay that year's dues right then, but they wouldn't take it. He hadn't paid in something like 6 or 7 years.

igloo, if I could survive your gray, I'd be in PNW in a heartbeat. My oldest son lives in North Cascades Nat'l Park - soooo far away :-(

Well...... he lives there till Friday, anyway. We'll see if there's a federal budget to pay him.

We don't have fire - but in my little area there is a WONDERFUL volunteer fire department. You can pay our county fire department, but honestly, the volunteer fire department here is very well known for their skill and efforts. We know one of the firemen, who is also a paramedic, and I always tell my husband,if something happens to me and I need an ambulance, call Albert! LOL They don't have subscriptions (as the county does), but do ask for donations, which we make annually, sometimes more if they have a need.

tina

I'm in central NJ and we supposedly have the highest taxes in the country. We have Sate Income Tax, and 7% Sales Tax (food & clothing are not taxed). I live in a small Main Street-type town that is part of a larger township. I have an attached house (side by side duplex) 100 years old, about 1800 square feet on less than a quarter acre and pay over $7,200.00/year for property and school taxes. It includes trash and street snow removal, but we pay quarterly for water and sewer. We do have a small public library, and a volunteer fire department; both ask for donations. Our public schools are well rated, so we do get something for all this $$$$. My kids are out of school now, but I agree with a previous poster who said that the quality of the schools have a lot to do with the quality of the community. But I'm sure there will come a point when I say "enough", too.

We pay about $275.00/month for cable, internet, land line & two cell phones. And we don't have HBO!

Don't even get me started on what I pay for crappy health insurance. It's a sin what they get away with.

I also live in Central NJ so I second everything kitchenwitch says. We pay just under $12K per year in property taxes. Just read in the local paper this morning that rate is going up 12.2 cents per $100 assessed value. Great. House is on about 1/2 acre and is approx 3500 square feet. The rate of my town is less than surrounding towns, so I am not complaining (too much).

I actually have very good health insurance through my employer. I pay about $400/month for that (pre-tax). I believe my company contributes more than twice that amount.

I just saw the attached article this morning. NJ is #1 in the country for highest property taxes. Here's what it says about NJ:

New Jersey residents spend more as a percentage of their incomes on property taxes than any other state. In some New Jersey counties, the amount of the annual property tax is enormous. In Passaic County in Northern New Jersey, the property tax as a percent of income is nearly 10 percent. Residents have not been helped by the fact that property values in the state decreased 4.5 percent between 2006 and 2009, which is the 8th greatest decrease in the country over that time period.

Here is a link that might be useful: 10 States With Worst Property Taxes

jillinnj that's a great link. It points out a factor that I think we keep missing here with our comparisons and justifiable rants. The tax on a property is relative to the income of the owner. The house highlighted in the original post has high property tax, but if the owner income is proportionate the taxes are not a burden.

My original question was what do you pay as a *proportion* of income because I think that's a more realistic indicator of impact on lifestyle. I'm wondering if people in NJ, for example, are more likely to be house poor because of the ratio of income to tax or if the people in TN are living a relatively easier life with more *proportionately* discretionary income. Everything is relative. My DH could not earn the same income he currently does in a small town in TN but an equal house in terms of size and amenities would probably cost significantly less and be taxed far less. It *could* have a significant impact on lifestyle. Quality of life is a very subjective qualifier - I might hate small town life in TN or I might hate city life in NJ but I don't know of another way to get the same sense of what it costs to live where. Certainly there will always be very high incomes in low cost of living areas but not likely to be the norm. But in some places a property owner really has to be in a high income bracket nationally just to be able to afford housing. It's not easy to make this an apples to apples comparison.

dlm - you are right on! I read the NY Times Real Estate section every Sunday. There is one page that lists recent sales in different regions (Manhattan, other boroughs of NYC, Long Island, NJ, etc) in a few different price ranges. I am often blown away by the taxes on the houses in the highest price range. But, as my DH always points out to me, if you can afford the six million dollar house, you can afford the $70K (or whatever) per year in taxes.

NJ also ranks amoung the highest (2nd I think) in income in the US.

My boss has the best of both worlds in terms of % of discretionary income. She makes a NYC salary, but works out of her house in Oklahoma, where her cost of living is so much less. We've had many conversations about the cost of housing in NY/NJ and she is just amazed at what it costs. For me, I could not live in Oklahoma (no offense to anyone, it's just not for me). Now, if I could convince my company to let me work out of a beach house on a tropical island, I would be a very happy person :-)

Jill - Is there room on that island for another family?! We are in the beginning phase of planning for a lifestyle move. Retirement is not on the immediate horizon (DH is 52) but we *need* to live elsewhere. We're empty nester's for the most part (our youngest is graduating college in May) and want a change. DH is self employed so health ins is our baby to handle and it costs a flippin' fortune for us and one son - we have good coverage, but not great and high deductible. A whopping 26% of our income (Sched C before tax) goes to combined health ins. and property tax. When all is said and done, our lives are wrapped around taxes (property, state & fed) and ins (home, health, auto etc). There has to be a better way.

Yes, always room for 1 more family!

I hear you! For me, I still have a 10 year old son, so we're not going anywhere for 7 or 8 years. But, the older I get (50 now), the more I think about just selling everything and moving to a beautiful tropical location. Hey, DS plays baseball. He could play 12 months a year if we lived someplace warm. Oh, wait, he does play 12 months a year (indoors in the winter).

Deb look harder at the pnw. I agree about the gray but there are areas of rain shadows (like port Townsend) that are really nice. We get way way more sun here than say Seattle (which gives wa a bad name).

We had our choice of where we could retire (not that dh ever will lol) and over many of the areas we have discussed here we chose PT because the town offers so much. I sound like the chamber lol but really over Chicago, new York, new jersey, California, Minnesota, wisconnsin, and a bunch more we chose here :). It's a great place.

Southern NJ 2300 Sq Ft Townhouse %7300 per yr. 65% or our tax burden goes to schools. We have a local school tax, a state school tax and a high school regional school tax and wayyy too many administrators getting the big bucks especially upon retirement.

Central NJ here, too. 3000 sq ft house, 1/2 acre, $10,000/yr. taxes -due to increase again this year. Similarly to kitchenwitch, my taxes cover trash and snow removal and a pretty spectacular library system. Sewer and water are separate issues. I came out of NYC 10 years ago - my electric and gas heating bills in NJ still have not reached the prices I paid in NY. Car insurance is still 1/2 of what we paid in NY 10 years ago for newer cars than we had then, so taxes are not the total picture.

I misunderstood the original question. Of course, what you said makes perfect sense. Cost of living is lower here in Tennessee (and much of the south) than areas up north. You will also not find a big city atmosphere really anywhere in TN. Nashville and Memphis are larger but do not compare to NYC. But I'm a country kind of gal and could never live in a big city - not even a medium city LOL. I like occasionally visiting those places but it is not the lifestyle we choose. So, you have to weigh all the aspects and hopefully find the lifestyle you want in a place you want at a price you want (or at least can afford)!

tina

Taxes don't always correlate with wealth. There are many older people who bought homes decades ago, to see them apprecitate over the years, and are unble to keep up with the taxes. I went to a school board meeting once where an older citizen was told to move if he couldn't afford the taxes. He had lived in our community his entire life!

Farmers also can be land rich and income poor. That is what fuels the selling of farm land to developers.

And the state where I live is fairly poor outside the metropolitan areas, and the areas are still burdened by high property taxes.