Rain drops, wind noise in my chimney-free gas logs fp-how to fix?
15 years ago
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- 15 years ago
- 15 years ago
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Smell from gas fireplace
Comments (63)This is an old thread and I wish I had seen it before we built our house in 2019. I tried to persuade our builder that I wanted a vented gas fireplace but he said they only did vent free. Long story short, we’ve never been able to use it because of the terrible, sickening smell (propane). We looked into having it changed to a vented fireplace and that was going to be prohibitively expensive. We ended up buying a Dimplex OptiMyst electric log insert so we could at least have some kind of operational fireplace. It is surprisingly realistic looking; the light looks like fire and the mist looks like smoke. Frankly, it looks more like a wood burning fireplace than our original vent free gas logs did....See MoreCan I open the damper on an UNVENTED log set?
Comments (21)I read your post with curiosity. All unvented and vented gas logs are listed with BTU output and are for heat especially in the case of power outages, The part about the oxygen sensor is correct although today many ventless gas logs come with both and I have added a carbon monixide sensor next to mine as everyone should do if they have any gas appliance in the home. Also some smell is normal, read the description near the end of the article. You are correct when you say that your not suppose to operate too long but you left out the end of the sentence, where it says before opening a window. Again near the end of the article. This is basically what my instructions say. Your gas log instructions must be 25 years old. This comparison is virtually the same as I had seen on every manufactures web site I looked at. This is copied from The Peterson Gas Log web site. Vented vs. Ventless Gas Logs - BACK TO PETERSON GAS LOGS When shopping for gas logs, you'll be asked to choose whether you want vented or vent-free logs. This decision comes down to several factors including looks vs. efficiency, local building codes and placement of the fireplace. With vented logs, you'll enjoy a large, realistic-looking flame that operates with an open chimney flue, or damper. These logs, which simulate a wood-burning fire, are more decorative than they are efficient as a heat source because much of the generated heat goes up the chimney. Vent-free logs, which operate with the chimney flue closed, will not give you that roaring fire effectthe flame is not as realistic or as high as you'll find with vented logs. But, vent-free logs are an efficient heat source because 100% of the heat generated stays in your home. You'll often see vent-free logs referred to as "vent-free heaters" because that is essentially what they are. They consist of U-shaped burners with cement logs stacked on top of the heating element. Most sets have a thermostatic control that helps maintain a consistent room temperature. Vent-free heaters add moisture to the air, so it's important to install them in a room with proper ventilation to avoid formation of mildew. Before installing any gas log system, check your local and state codes. In some localities, vent-free heaters are not permitted. Vent-free heaters are not permitted in bedrooms, bathrooms or recreational vehicles, and must be installed in an area where curtains, furniture, clothing or other flammable objects are at least 36 inches away from the perimeter of the heater. Vent-free heater installation also is not recommended in high traffic, windy or drafty areas. Vented Gas Logs: Positive Features of Vented Gas Logs: * Extremely realistic flame pattern that looks like a wood fire. * Flame is much taller than vent-free logs * Flame dances and wraps around logs like real wood. * Does not require a Carbon Monoxide (CO) detector Since the damper is open, most of the smell will go up the chimney Negative Features of Vented Gas Logs: * Less heat than vent-free logs (probably won't heat your room) * Uses slightly more gas than vent-free logs Ventless Gas Logs: Positive Features of Vent-Free Gas Logs: * Much better heat output than vented gas logs * Less pollution * Slightly less gas consumption Negative Features of Vent-Frees Gas Logs: * Since the byproduct of burning gas cleanly is water, vent-free logs will introduce excess moisture into your home which can result in mold or mildew. * You must be careful not to burn your vent-free logs for extended periods of time with windows closed, otherwise they will deplete the oxygen in your home. * If you burn your vent-free logs for more than an hour or so, you must crack open a window to allow air into your home to replace the oxygen burned by the vent-free gas logs. This will introduce cold air into the room and offset some of the heating benefits that vent-free logs claim to have. * Vent-free gas logs produce an odor that many people equate to the smell of burning kerosene. So if you have a sensitive nose, you may not be able to handle the smell and will be greatly dissatisfied with vent-free logs. On the other hand, we've heard some people who like the smell because it reminds them of their childhood days at Grandma's house. * Vent-free logs are not legal in California as well as some cities and municipalities. Please check your local regulations. Please note that it is not illegal to use Vent-free log sets if they are used with the vent open. * Vent-free gas logs are required to have an ODS (oxygen depletion system) as well as a Carbon Monoxide (CO) detector. * The flame pattern with vent-free logs pails in comparison to vented logs. Because the gas must burn cleanly, the flame height is very low and most of it is blue. Also, you will find that the flame does not dance around like a real wood fire and very little of the flame actually touches the logs. The reason for this is that when the flame touches the logs, it gets cooled off and does not burn cleanly and starts to produce soot and exhaust gases....See Moremystery sewer gas smell !
Comments (37)FOLLOWUP! In July 2012- I had sewer gas leaking into my bedroom, bathroom, and then up to the upstairs level of the house for five months. It was awful. I have an 18 inch crawlspace and a raised floor. Under the house is dirt and the pipes. I had FOUR plumbers and TWO handymen check it out. They found NOTHING! They were too big to fit around the pipes!!! We had put in a new toilet, and I had that pulled up and put down again, just in case. but that was fine. We checked all the traps, and now keep them full of water, so they are fine. The plumbers gave me estimates of $4500 for a sewer cleanout installation in front of the house, and $6800 to repipe the bad pipes, if they found any.... I did not have the money, and they really had no plan, just guesses. Last August 2012, I luckily found a neighbor friend who was able to crawl around under the house. He was a little guy, and knew how to do plumbing and other repairs!! He found leaking and large cracks in the main drain sewer pipe at the ground level, around the back of the pipe, hidden from general view and he used epoxy to repair it. This pipe was attached to other pipes, and if it needs to be replaced it will be a difficult job. That pipe was directly below the downstairs bathroom. That reduced about 70 % of the smell and seems to be holding tight with no more leaking there. But sewer gases were still leaking from somewhere else, but not as bad, or as often. it still kept coming back about every three days.They centered in my bedroom, and seemed to come out of the floor. Oddly, from the beginning, the gases only happened around 1am until 5am, then stopped all day long, so no one could smell them, unless they stayed all night. From the first repair, the gasses only occurred about every three days or so, and not as severe, but still stinky. My friend came back into town in November, and went back under the house, and found stress marks on the larger pipe that attached to the MAIN drain sewer pipe, and ran towards the front of the house. This pipe traveled directly under my BED, and the cracks were basically under my pillow area. (What LUCK!) He had to replace that whole pipe, and to get it inside we opened the ground vents and slid it through, and the old pipe out. After he replaced that and all the fittings, the gases were gone! THANK YOU GOD!!! It cost me $800 just to investigate all this, and get nothing for the repairing of it from that! Plumbers were just ready to get paid, with no idea what was actually wrong!!! My friend only charged me $550 plus parts for this! I suffered through it for five months, and hope the sewer gases didn't harm me in any way! I sure appreciate the clean smell now!!! By the way, it was an acrid stinky burning smell. It did NOT smell like METHANE, or anything described as general sewage smells. It was just hard to breathe it, and would cause eyes, throat and nose to burn. I had a runny nose right up to the day the last pipe was replaced, and it all stopped. GOOD LUCK TO ANYONE STILL HAVING THIS PROBLEM. I learned far more about plumbing than I ever thought I would need to know!...See MorePlan Natural Gas Generator. Need Help.
Comments (19)Hi Chisue, Glad you found the info useful. The $US 10,000 bid las time round I think puts you into the class two gen set area. These are good systems and popular where I live. Auto start and essentially auto everything. Good in that when the power goes out you do nothing and everything comes back on line in about 20 seconds. These units are lawn mower engine based. Typically air cooled and have two cylinders. They run fast at 3,600 rpm and are noisy. But this is not that big a deal in that this is for only a few days of running untill the power comes back on. The amount of power they can handle is about 10-12kw range. Some companies rate them higher like 15 kw, but I would say this is pushing it. Another something worth remembering is starting current. The other poster was correct in that the calculation is amount of power + some buffer. The some buffer is important. The reason why is that at start up, electric motors draw a lot more current. Can be up to 8 times as much. So to handle this surge you need a big generator head, more copper, and a heavier momentum in the engine. You can begin to see why heavier is better in generators. You have two sumps, I do not know how big these are, also the fridge. Immediately upon power restart this is when the power requirement is the largest. All your motors will be trying to start at the same time. You need to ensure that you have sufficient power to start these motors. At a guess, I think 10kw should be sufficient quite comfortably. A portable 6kw gen set may require some messing about with breakers. IE. you only start one motor at a time. Hence the power surge demand is spread out over time. The other useful thing to remember, or your electrician should know is that your generator set actually generates power as two phases. Huh? What is a phase? Imagine a smooth wave like line, in math it is a sine wave. Now imagine two of them. Just like waves on the ocean sometimes one wave is at a peak, and another wave is at a low point. Your generator will produce these two waves, two phases, and they will be perfectly out of phase with each other. One will be at the peak, while the other will be at the low point. OK now you are confused :) OK the simple thing to remember is that most things you want to power up will be a 120v one phase item. You need to try and evenly divide these items on each of the phases. Sometimes one thing is a power hungry one. This will use up a lot of power on one phase. You cannot borrow power from the other phase. Because you cannot borrow power, you have to size your generator accordingly. For example, a 12 kw generator can be thought of as two 6kw generators (one for each phase). Make sue that if you have a big power item, e.g. your cook top, that you have sufficient to power that one one of the phases. This phase thing can be confusing, and there are some items which actually do use both phases, hence what I have just said in the paragraph above may not be applicable. e.g. Some well pumps are two phased powered. Hence in general it is a good idea to have spare capacity in your generator set. This is expensive. How much spare capacity is difficult to guesstimate. My recommendation is to go for the more expensive class two gensets and stick with that. The reason why is that once you jump to class three the cost tends to almost double because of the genset weight on installation, and the genset cost itself. If you have some key big power items, e.g. you cook top that you must have running, then maybe consider a class three genset setup. From can see from your post, I do not see any big items that would reuire a class three. If you have central A/C and want to run that, then I would recommend a class three genset. May people go for a class two set up, and buy a window air conditioner which they can install and run for a few days while their central A/C is out. You also asked in your post how log you can run a genset for. Well so long as you top up the oil etc. at a shot you can run continuously untill your fuel runs out. Fuel is usually the limitation. If you are on mains gas, then almost indefinately. My genset burns at max rate such that a 500 gallon propane tank will be depleted in 5 days. Note propane tanks can only be filled to 80% capacity, so a 500 gallon tank by volume, but only 400 gallons actual LPG propane. Then your tank may not be full, say half full. So right now I have a two day burn reserve. The flip side is you do not have to run your genset 24 hours. In power outages, I only run for say a few hours for showers, heating no burst pipes etc. The rest of the time if I am out keep it shut off if I am out etc. You may want to run 24/7 however due to your sump pump and basement flooding risk. Hope this is useful, and you are not falling asleep .... All the best, Mike....See More- 15 years ago
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