Regarding tebuconazole/water contamination, the EPA is investigating: "SUMMARY: The Environmental Protection Agency is publishing the third Contaminant Candidate List (CCL 3) since the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) amendments of 1996. The CCL 3 is a list of contaminants that are currently not subject to any proposed or promulgated national primary drinking water regulations, that are known or anticipated to occur in public water systems, and which may require regulation under SDWA. Today's final CCL 3 includes 104 chemicals or chemical groups and 12 microbiological contaminants." http://www.fralerts.com/2009/10/8/E9-24287.asp It is my impression that our federal government moves slowly. ------------------------------------------- This what the EPA stated in a December 13, 2007 report: ( http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chemical/foia/cleared-reviews/reviews/128997/128997-2007-12-13a.pdf First in the summary: "A screening-level (Level I) risk assessment, based on proposed new uses, suggests that levels of tebuconazole (parent compound only) in the environment are likely to result in direct chronic risk to freshwater and estuarine/marine fish, acute risk estuarine/marine crustaceans, chronic risk to mammals, a& risk to listed terrestrial dicot plants. Based on the potential for direct effects to these tqa, there may be potential indirect effects to species of concern that depend on these taxa as a source of food, habitat, pollination, etc. Specific risk conclusions for each crop can be found in the assessment." Please look at Table 1. Concerning water contamination, the following 2 sections appear to apply: "Ground Water Advisory ) Tebuconazole is known to leach through soil into ground water under certain conditions as a result of label use. Use of this chemical in areas where soils are permeable, particularly where the water table is shallow, may result in ground-water contamination. Surface Water Label Advisories This product may contaminate water through drift of spray in wind. This product has a high potential for runoff for several months or more after application. Poorly draining soils and soils with shallow water tables are more prone to produce runoff that contains this product. A level, well maintained vegetative buffer strip between areas to which this product is applied and surface water features such as ponds, streams, and springs will reduce the potential for contamination of water from rainfall-runoff. Runoff of this product will be reduced by avoiding applications when rainfall is forecasted to occur within 48 hours." ------------------------------ As previously pointed out the European Union has acted. It is my impression that Ontario has a ban for home use; I am not sure about the other Canadian provinces. Could any Canadian readers speak about this? ---------------------------------------- California in a July 16, 2009 report ( http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/risk/priot.pdf ) has placed tebuconazole in its "HIGH Priority" list to be studied for "TERATOLOGY". Teratology is defined at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratology

I am delighted that some of my much older rose growing friends have Knockouts so they can continue to have roses. And these folks who used to be Hybrid Tea centric growers embrace their Knockouts with the fervor that used to be reserved for highpointedcenter roses. That said, I went to town today and was surprised at how many plantings of Knockouts are around. I would guess that most were less than two years old. There is a downside: our area has heavy Rose Rosette disease pressure. I wish I could believe that all the grounds crews who tend the Knockouts would recognize RRD and react by at a minimum removing the sick canes. But I am a cynical realist and I know that Knockout and Nearly Wild can stay sick with RRD in these parts for years without dieing, so I can see a future with islands of Knockouts sourcing plumes of mites to spread RRD. And there won't be anything we can do about it.

Well, the one Ronnie is growing is a real winner,I'm sure we ALL PRAY he has success. :) I have some that don't seem to have names, but that are breathtaking. Then a gal sent me one, which is called "Wisteria Tye Dye" and, is speckeled. Then there's some Ronnie sent me,(he's been very generous), I am anxious to get in the ground, like Blue Silk,Fusino momo,(that s could be a j). :) Anywho, my stand bys like Akasuki no umi, and Shiruki ao, which I call "Love is Blue" There's no way I could let a spring go by without planting these two, and both have varigated leaves. One vine I collected from is white with brownish pink lines exploding from the center, which I call"Chocolate Explosion", really interesting. The Tye Dyes, purple,blue,and pink,and several mix's that have some that look like "Star of India", but the colors are more vivid. The trick for me is to get them in the ground early, even if it's cool, that way they seem to have time to soak in the damp spring weather, and come up at different times, just not plant TOO late. A couple of mine were lost last year because I got them in the ground late, and they didn't set seed just like you mentioned. I'm not one for starting seeds inside very much. Oh, - I have a camera now, but have'ft to figure out how to post pics. Karyn, seems like you have the same problem as I do, SO many, SO little space. "If there's a will , there's a way"!!! :) Fran, Ron has had so many useful ideas, I love the one he gave you, it also works great for Moonvine, which I had trouble getting seeds to before. Now I have a ton, due to his good pointers. Last year I let a lot of my MG seeds come up that had just dropped, and If I liked the vine, I would let it grow, and if I had one that came up that wasn't that special, I would pull it out. Only problem, I have never really met a MG I didn't like. Even the Noah is really neat, but goodness is it invasive! Just to see a MG poking it's little stem out of the ground is so exciting, and you wonder what it's going to look like, that is, if it comes up in MY garden anyway! :) arum

You know, you can check some of the deeds on line now. It only goes back to like the 70's though.. However if you are just starting to chain that may be helpful and save you some time. I know what you mean about finding time. They should have some night hours for the county clerk office! Check the libraweb photo's also. i found plat books that have my house or the land the house was on from 1820's to the 1930's and they are really interesting. Also I just ordered high quality copies of all the plat book maps from them. They are like 2 dollars a piece and they send you them on CD's. I plan to have them printed out and framed and then I can show people the progression of the land and the house and stuff. I think the maps were the most important thing for my research. Right now I am stuck at 1860. I know the house was built before then but I havn't had time to go to the county clerk to get the two deeds that I need to look at. I belong to the landmark society but haven't gone there yet. Were they very helpful? Do they have information on the suburbs??? I live really close to the city limits so I am not far out there. -renee