Hey desperate, Well, this got interesting, eh? From Elephant peeps to sneaky fees. Just my humble two pennies worth: Sounds to me like they are stepping outside the bounds of what the Sec Dep and Pet Dep are for. The critical word here is "Automatic". As in the "automatic flea spraying and deodorizing fee". They show, by their own wording, that they fully intend to deduct for a very specific item. It's not "if" they find fleas, or "if" there is pet odor. It's "Automatic", across the board. And in an instance like that, where it's an automatic deduction that they plan upon at exit for everyone, it would seem to me they certainly have to list it up front, with a dollar amount, and it be agreed upon in writing by both parties. I'm not sure how your mgmt is confident in assigning additional "automatic" fees on their tenants that were not revealed in advance and agreed upon in writing. Personally I wouldn't try it and would fully expect backlash. It all goes back to that operative word: automatic. As far as any pet cleanup, one can logically conclude that's what the separate pet deposit is for. So to those tenants who did pay a Pet Dep and then get this bonus pet cleaning fee thrown in, it seems fishy to me. The proper way to do it would be to make sure mgmt has enough up front to cover fleas, cleaning, deodorizing and then any unforeseen pet damage and any automatic deductions must be noted up front, with a fixed dollar amount. The applicant can either accept that package and move in or reject it and move on. As it stands, the Applicant-turned-tenant is not being offered that choice. It's basically a side bar to a contract and I just don't see how it can fly. Honestly, as a LL, if I had an exiting tenant and tried to spring an 'automatic' deduction of any kind on them that I didn't reveal up front, didn't include in the lease and it wasn't agreed upon in writing I'd fully expect tenant backlash. Highly doubt it would stand up in my local court, so I wouldn't even try it. (On a side note, think I mentioned how important forwarding address can be in your other thread. Lack of providing one can often be detrimental to tenants. It's often mentioned in various states' laws. Know you're doing your homework, so encourage you to make sure you're covered there, and if required give them something, even it it's your dad's as an interim.) What to do? Tricky. Cover yourself. Put it all in writing to them. State you fully intend to leave your unit in sparkling condition. However, you had an agreed upon monthly rental rate, an agreed upon SD which you paid in advance and there was no mention of any additional "automatic" fees in your lease that would be required of you at move out. Note to them that you did not even learn of the "automatic" fees until you were given the move out packet. And therefore, because it was not part of your written contract, you do not feel bound or obliged to pay any standard deductions that were not included in the contract, that you were not given the opportunity to review and agree upon before your tenancy commenced. You're clearly a sharp tenant that does your homework, perhaps displaying this to them will be enough to get them to back down. I don't see how they can attempt to slide it through under your Sec Dep, either, because they have shown by their own written word that it's something they universally and automatically charge at move out but fail to list in the lease terms.

Have you had any recent offers to sign you up at no (or low) interest rate on transferred balances? Should you sign up for one - after the transfer, *don't charge* anything on that card. As many require that your full monthly payment be used to reduce the transferred balance before you pay off any of the newly acquired debt. That way, after while they get the full amount of the transferred balance transferred to their high interest account. Unless - you make no further purchases on that card. Have you had any mail offers lately (that you haven't thrown out yet)? Maybe check out a couple of offers from them. Ask around at some local financial institutions (not too many, as too many requests over a short term raises red flags on your account at the credit agencies, as well). So - do you have some relatives or close friends who'd make some inquiries at an institution or two for you? I like that term, "institution" - think some of them should be confined to one. I dislike using store cards - don't like paying 25 - 28% annual interest rate, thank you very much. Will your usual financial institution make you a loan for a substantial part of the amount owing? Most likely, even on an unsecured loan, you'd pay a lower rate of interest than currently on your "credit" (i.e. "debt") card balance. It would help a lot if you have some, preferably easily liquidatable, assets that you can use as collateral. Are you a member of a credit union, or are there some locally? Often, since they know their members better, they are willing to make loans to people that they have faith in, even lacking adequate collateral. If there are some, maybe join one. Good wishes as you chart your course through troubled waters, joyful

So by way of follow up all these months later - I never used that bad general contractor again but it took weeks to hire a replacement for the exterior work then forever to get him in. Luckily I had my own electrician and flooring person fix his work in the interim and my time/materials contractor install the final kitchen a month later as planned, and worked with a designer to make it work wonderfully (plus a lot of my own time and effort). The exterior work (window/door conversion) took another 6-8 weeks and wasn’t done until 2 months ago, and while we didn’t save money on the replacement person, we didn’t spend more on them for the same things either. With the money I spent to fix the bad GC’s work, I was probably out a few grand (sad to say) and my designer figured he was going to leave me in the lurch either way either when he did or toward the end - her theory was that he would leave me in the lurch the moment he was a few grand ahead and could safely run and pull out his profit, so she said NEVER to let him get ahead of me in terms of my paying a moment ahead of work (live and learn). The only thing that galls me is a deposit he never returned, so I’m planning on emailing him with a demand for it back. The demand is drafted, the architect who referred him expects it ��" but I can’t seem to push the button on the email because it will be so unpleasant when I do (he'll refuse to give it back, he'll ignore the email, I doubt he'll actually pony up a penny). The architect who referred him to me has very clear backup for what was wrong and knows it wasn’t acceptable. I’ve left it to him whether to refer the jerk to anyone else. My designer thinks I should just walk away from the lost deposit and figure it was a bump-up in price for the job. Other bids from (now I know) better contractors were well more than the cash I left him with. So while I lost money and a decent amount of security (for example, for the first time in 7 years we now had a mouse on our parlor floor, I figure from something not well sealed behind the scenes by the GC, but who knows; plus I'm concerned because the plumbing he did was so bad that I worry a lot about water issues coming up especially ones I don't know about). But what an education. By the way, as it turns out the bad GC's electrician left a ton undone and done improperly so I had my own electrician fix that. The plumber who installed the final kitchen pointed out that the GC's plumbing work was shoddy (range's turnoff valve installed at the wrong end of the wall/range connection; bad height of the plumbing for the range etc.); the carpenter showed me a screw sticking down out of a railing the GC's guy installed, about an inch down where someone grabbing it from below could have torn their hand badly (that one galls me the most, and I don't think that was intentional; the GC's guy wasn't that good and the GC never bothered to come check his work... poor hiring and poor supervision were the culprits there). So beware! I love my new kitchen and deck but who knows what issues lurk behind... not electrical and unlikely structural since I had an architect involved, but more plumbing,,, and some functional like a bad washer/dryer layout because of his poor choices and advice to me on the fly (and I wish I'd had my designer and not the architect for a lot of these decisions, the right advice is so key).

My thanks to all - even those of you who have asked me to examine my contribution to the problem. Believe it or not, it is my nature to start from a position of equality - equal respect, equal understanding, equal expectations. I was raised to be fair-minded in the extreme (just ask my kids! or my parents, for that matter) and more often than not I am hurt by looking at others and thinking I am looking in a mirror, which may just be human nature, I don't know. I am far from perfect, but I do hold myself to high standards, the least of which are promptness, honesty, and clarity in what I can deliver professionally. I know every job suffers from unforeseen delays, mistakes, and errors in judgment. Sh*t happens. I was pretty understanding in the beginning. Maybe TOO understanding. I'm beginning to think MY mistake was not being tough enough. The problems with this job all resulted from sloppiness - failure to measure properly, to take time to level, to put down drop cloths or protect new appliances when sanding, to take careful notes or pictures with that phone you're busy checking your email on. I do believe those expectations are fairly entry-level, if you want to be a contractor. To everyone at GW - learn from my mistakes! When my island top came in without the overhang, or my granite counters were off-level, or the plumber insisted the water pressure was always weak (turns out he didn't flush the line), or the custom cabinet came in a foot too short - a foot! and this was the second try! - these were not examples of someone opening a wall in an old house and finding the wiring needed to be redone. When my contractor didn't think it was important to show up, as days became weeks, because he was at his closing or doing his walk through or visiting his other jobs, these didn't seem like 'common occurrances' that I should overlook. Maybe I should have been clearer at the top of the post, but I don't think 'well-managed' would be the way anyone would describe this job. Even, at this point, the contractor. And I do count my blessings. I know it could have been worse. But I'd hate to have my performance described in those terms.