Congratulation on your maiden voyage into bread making. Hope you enjoy many more.

Here's what happened to your bread.

Typically, when you use a fast-acting yeast for active dry yeast, you use 25% less, which was adjusted in the recipe. Fast-acting yeast products are designed to work quickly and in different ways than active dry yeast. In order to slow down the process to work like active dry yeast, the instructions indicate the lower amount of yeast. This amount of yeast is typical for the one loaf amount using a straight (or direct) method to mix the dough.

Your problem came, as you suspected, from over-proofing the dough during the first rise. Dough does NOT rise to a clock, but rather to the ambient air temperature, humidity, and the strength of the yeast. It can't tell time at all... Times suggested for the dough to rise are generally a good (or bad) guess. My dough rises quicker in a 75F summertime kitchen than it does in my now 62°F wintertime kitchen, just because of the air temperature. I set a timer for 20-25 minutes, and check the dough, then check it every 5-10 minutes after that.

It is no longer suggested we rise dough to "double", but rather just UNDER "double", because the flour is no longer bromated. So it's VERY important not to let the dough rise OVER double. Dough doesn't have the extensibility it did with bromated flour. This is especially true if you are using wholegrain flours in a recipe.

Your first rise, where you over-proofed the dough, damaged it, and gave it the characteristics you described.

I'd suggest you try using a Dough Rising Bucket, available at King Arthur Flour, for your dough. You can get the same kind of plastic food storage containers (with a tight-fitting lid) at restaurant supply stores for much less than the ones sold a KAF. I'd suggest a 2-quart size and a 4-quart size.

To use a Dough Rising Bucket (aka Dough Doubler), handle the dough with oiled hands. Pat the dough into the bottom of the bucket. Snap on the lid. Now the dough is in a perfect little environment for rising.

These containers have graduated markings on them, so note where the amount of dough is in the bucket when you first pat it in. When the dough rises to just under double that original mark, it's time to punch the dough down.

I generally use a 2-quart size container for up to 2.5# of dough, and have other sizes for larger amounts. If the dough patted into the container comes up to the 1-quart line, you will know it's "double" when it's risen to the 2-quart line. Or if the dough is to the 1/2-quart line, it will be "double" when it reaches the 1-quart line.

To punch the dough down while still in the Dough Rising Bucket: With an oiled hand, slowly punch your fist through the center of the dough to gently deflate it. Now grab the dough on the outside edge and pull it to the center of the dough ball. Do this all the way around. You have now turned the dough inside out. The warmer inner dough has moved to the outside and the cooler outside dough to the inside. You have broken up clusters of yeast, which redistributes them during this manipulation. Some of the carbon dioxide that built up in the dough is now released.

Happy bread baking.

-Grainlady

*applause* Thanks Grainlady.

Also, your recipe was for a sandwich bread, which typically will be more firm and dense, which are good traits in a bread used for making sandwiches. You want the bread to slice well, not crumble, not moosh down under the knife, with no holes or "voids" in the bread that can cause leaking of the mayo/mustard/tomato, etc.

I'll bet your mom didn't use 2 T of sugar in her bread either.
The sugar, the butter and the milk gave the bread the denser texture, and the over proofing gave you the yeasty taste.

I would never use that much yeast for one loaf of bread.

FYI - Two tablespoons of sugar per CUP of flour is the maximum that you can add without major gluten damage, so 2 T. for 3 cups of flour is fine. It will help brown the crust. One tablespoon of sugar per 3-cups flour was a common ration in Basic White Bread.

"Dense" comes from when the fat is added during the mixing. Fat added early, typical for a straight dough method, coats the flour and shortens the gluten strands, and you will get a close crumb, almost like a cake-type crumb. Great for sandwich bread. When the fat is added after the gluten has developed, towards the end of kneading, the crumb will be more open and the loaf will be taller. Great for bread used for toast so all that butter and marmalade have a place to settle. Neither method is right or wrong, just a choice, but it DOES help determine the type of crumb you get.

-Grainlady

Congrats Pat, on your first loaf! I always remember my first some 20 years ago. It was a wonderful feeling!

Grainlady, bravo! I always learn something new by reading your post.

Al

I love the yeasty taste of bread, and also prefer my bread a little sweeter (well, except for "flavored" breads, like cheesy or herbed), so I would probably have liked it. I don't think I will ever be a bread baker like grainlady or Teresa, but I make bread all the time and really enjoy doing it.
Goodf luck bostonpat. You are right to come here for the answers!

Thank You! I am going to try it again this afternoon using a recipe for 2 loaves - taken again from the King Arthur website. This calls for less butter, less sugar and the milk is optional - I wasn't crazy about the fine texture - I want a more 'rough' bread.

It's funny and I wish my mother was here to witness it, but I remember being embarassed with being sent to school with a thermos of lamb stew and a slice of her homemade bread with butter - I asked her if we could get the "Sunbeam" bread popular around here at the time - that's what the other kids were eating. Mom was horrified and told me those kids didn't know what they were missing. And she was right!
To me - her stew and homemade bread were comfort foods.
I can make the stew and I do often - particulary in this cold weather, I hope to get the bread right!
Thanks for the advice - I am determined to 'get' this! The birds can eat my failures.
Pat

If you are looking for a basic crusty white bread that sops up stew gravy, try a basic flour salt, water and yeast bread...
Look at the recipe for 5 minute artesan bread on this page.
Linda c

I plan on trying that but I want to see if I can duplicate the white bread my mother made - we used it for sandwiches and with stews/soups. I'd like to also try making sandwich rolls. I'm also fantasizing about dark rye bread.

Pat:
I was put down by a lot of members, in the last Yeast Post, a couple of months ago.
It was mostly for going to the aid of a Member.
A big tadoo was made over it,
So I won't do that again.

But I will say, Grainlady has very good Info and Specs.,
for everyone, who would listen.

In fact I just learned something new in this Post, which I never realized.

Good Luck and when you bake that Prize Winning Loaf,
remember the CF.
Lou

I see you call yourself Bostonpat.....would your mother by chance have used a recipe from the Fanny Farmer cook book? Also known as the Boston Cookbook?
That's what my mother and grandmother used....
I have linked to the page about making bread. Scroll down the recipe I was thinking of is the one called "milk and water bread". It uses half milk and half water for the liquid, no sugar and 2 tablespoons of fat.
Yes it calls for a yeast cake, but I use all forms of yeast interchangeably without altering the recipe at all.....and I know annie does the same. I'm not quite into the scientific reasons like grainlady is, but it works for me. However I don't proof bread by the clock, but by watching it and poking it.
Also a well kneaded dough makes for a fine textured bread.
I suspect you are hooked! And will soon be into whole grains and dried fruits and experimenting with add ins!
Harmless hobby....but it is fattening!!
Linda c