If you're not using it, you need to be using a retinol product. I use Roc overnight cream with retinol and my skin looks great. I imagine I'll always use it.
Allison highly recommended phloretin but I have not tried that yet.

Bumble is right. Actually the "professionals" (dermotologists) do recommend retinol products, philoretin products, glycolic acid, etc. I will have to look at the name of what I was using. I had a dark spot on one side of my face - up near my temple. The creme I used did lighten the spot considerable. It also gave my skin a softer texture and my complexion looks "brighter". HOWEVER, I have sensitive skin and have to be very careful about how much, what strenth and how long I use it. I'm currently not using the stronger creme, just the moisture lotion and undereye creme. I'll get back to you with the name. I by it at a beauty salon, through a plastic surgeon. Funny - huh? Actually one of his employees does facials, etc. at my beauty salon once a week. You can also buy the products on line.

I'd recommend you visit a dermatologist. One advantage is they will probably give you some samples.

tina

I still can't figure out why you feel the need to constantly mock me, Tina.

Nowhere did I say the products you mentioned aren't good. I said not to waste money on expensive products. Retinal comes in inexpensive OTC products also.

Dermatologists have agenda's in pushing certain products as do other doctors. Therefore fooling the pubic into thinking the products they push are the best. And it was dermatologists who came out and said this.

Short of Botox, nothing really gets rid of wrinkles. Many OTC creams do help tremendously with texture, but that is not the issue here.

Oakley - I wasn't mocking you. Disagreeing perhaps, although I am sure different professionals say different things. Yes, retinal comes in OTC. The products I use aren't terribly expensive and they do work. I had used my dermatologist for some time before asking about skin care products and I trust her suggestions.

I don't think I said the products get rid of wrinkles but they can improve the appearance. I think wrinkles can be minimized.

tina

Oakley, what in the world are you talking about? I saw nothing in Tina's post that was directed at you one way or the other.

And I won't even mention turning over a new leaf. ;)

Oakley, I saw nothing either.

Bumble - I was really seconding your thoughts on retinol. I probably should have said professionals can have differing opinions rather than putting professionals in quotes. Then I would be explaining myself!

WOULDN'T - not would!! ARGGHHHH! I'm going to bed!!

Also there are OTC strength retinols and prescription strength, like Retin-A and Renova, which are supposed to be much more effective. I have tried the Rx type, but they seem to be to harsh for my skin.

My dear Oakley. You are so sensitive! I read Tina's post three times trying to read it like you did. I still couldn't see it. I saw it as conversation and being involved in the conversation.

I should pay better attention to this thread but I likely won't.

I don't really have wrinkles yet, other than lines under my eyes. I'm 47. I use Retin-A prescribed by a doctor mainly for (arg) adult acne and some fading of sun spots (not terribly effective there). That may be why I don't have many wrinkles! I have tried a few eye creams and the one that seems to have the best effect is Roc Retinol eye cream, which I get at CVS and is not expensive. It doesn't eliminate the lines, but somehow makes them look better! Whenever I try other creams, thinking one might be a miracle cure, I end up going back to the Roc cream and I can see the difference almost immediately.

My dilemma is how to moisturizer winter-dry aging skin that is still prone to acne. It's really hard!

oak, thank you for the Oil of Olay reminder. I used to use it and it is good stuff! It's funny-- I was reading reviews for the Roc cream and someone said EXACTLY what you did . . .she said she'd lost weight, so now her wrinkles show more! I'll check out the EL, too. I have a fond spot for EL-- when I was a teen, that is where my mom took me to learn how to do makeup.

Bumble, tina, terriks, and sue, I will try the Roc. I have had wrinkles on my forehead since I was 7! (Well, the beginning of them.) Last night when I was looking at the product, it said (in the reviews) to keep it away from the eyes . . .so it sounds like there are some you CAN use for the eyes, but not the overnight one? Off to go check!

sue, I just saw something called Afirm . . .it won't help with the dryness, but it says it's for both wrinkles and adult acne-- or is that what all products w/retinol do?

Anele, good for you...using a sunscreen regularly! That's a very important step in your skincare regime!

Here is a review from Cosmetics Cop, of ROC's Multicorrexion Night Treatment. I've used it too, & really like it, as well as the ROC eye cream Sue mentioned.

Cosmetics Cop is a great resource, btw. You get no-nonsense, un-biased reviews of drugstore & department store products. As Oakley said, expensive doesn't always mean better. Cosmetics Cop gives glowing reviews to many EL products, for example, but not ALL of them!

Anyhoo, here's what she said about the ROC cream:

Review:
Although this moisturizer isn't a "comprehensive anti-aging solution" for your skin, it is a light, silky moisturizer that treats your skin to an impressive amount of vitamin C (ascorbic acid) along with the cell-communicating ingredient retinol. The texture of this product makes it best for those with normal to slightly dry skin. If your skin is dry to very dry you will want to pair this with a separate moisturizer or serum.

This definitely deserves consideration if you're curious to see what a well formulated retinol product will do for your skin. It currently stands as the best retinol product RoC offers, which of course begs the question of why they have so many other products with retinol!

ugh, i too have dealt with just enough adult acne to steer me away from putting much of anything on my face... i do have some wrinkles on forehead and fine(ish!) 'crow's feet' from years of squinting instead of wearing sunglasses!!

i do have an OTC retinol product that i occasionally remember to put around my eyes, but probably not consistently enough to show any longterm results...i've just never been one to cream up my face with anything unless it had benz.peroxide 10% in it!

i have the feeling that my forehead requires something injectable to smooth it---don't know when or if i'll go down that path...

sue, I just saw something called Afirm . . .it won't help with the dryness, but it says it's for both wrinkles and adult acne-- or is that what all products w/retinol do?

Anele, I use the Roc retinol eyecream too. I'm careful not to get it in my eyes but then I never have either.

stinky, I used to have her book! (Paula Begoun, that is.) I was wondering that about the many RoC products-- which is best! Now I know! Thank you. :)

busy, I feel the same about the lines around my mouth. I think they come from some jaw issue-- does not affect me, but I can tell it's not symmetrical.

Bumble, which formula do you use?

RoC Retinol Correxion Deep Wrinkle Night Cream with the eye cream.
It took about 6 months of regular use and heavy application to see real results, i.e skin tone evening out, wrinkles less noticeable, all red areas gone.

Anele, so you are familiar with Paula! Here's what she has to say about the Multicorrexion Eye Cream:

Review:
"There is much to like about this lightweight, silky-textured eye cream, but its treatment benefits don't extend to diminishing dark circles and puffiness (so much for the multi-correction claim). What this will do is provide a light dose of moisture along with the antioxidant benefit of vitamin C, vitamin E, and soy protein. Also on hand is an impressive amount of the cell-communicating ingredient retinol, and this product's packaging will keep it stable during use. So there's much to like about this product because its combination of ingredients can help skin look better, and that includes improving the appearance of wrinkles. This would be rated a Best Product if it did not contain fragrance. I can concede to fragrance in an otherwise well-formulated facial moisturizer, but not in a product meant for use in the eye area. This is suitable for normal to slightly dry skin."

I haven't had any problems with the fragrance, but it may be a concern for some. Did notice while looking at Amazon reviews that it only got 3 stars, while the Multicorrexion Night Treatment was a really big hit.

Eye creams Paula likes 100% are Yes to Bluberries Firming Eye Treatment & Shikai's Borage Dry Skin Therapy Eye Cream. I've used them both too & love them! Purchased those at Drugstore.com, but I know Target sells the Blueberry.

Another product that she (& I) like- Olay's Total Effects Mature Skin Therapy...big favorite of mine (Okay, I confess, I love skin care products!)

Nothing, as I am sure you well know, will eliminate wrinkles. If something would, no woman walking around would be sporting a wrinkle on her face! Still, I do think we can enhance the way our skin looks & feels with good products, good diet, enough sleep & sunscreen!

A nurse, who must have been in her thirties, said to me recently, "I just have to say, you have gorgeous skin...it's just perfect!" Well, I am 49 years old Anele, & I promise you, my skin is not perfect! Maybe what I can take away from her remark, in spite of its hyperbole, is that that even in advancing age, our complexions can still have a sort of "freshness?"

Stinky - what is your all time favorite eye creme? I was thinking of trying the Roc, but I am sometimes sensitive to fragrance, plus my skin is dry. Thanks!

tina

Tina, the Borage eye cream is fragrance free & a really great product. Here is Paula's review:

"This is an excellent moisturizer for dry, sensitive skin anywhere on the face. It contains a good mix of non-fragrant plant oils rich in fatty acids, emollients for moisture retention, and some good antioxidants. The gentleness of this formula is great for use around the eyes, but your entire face deserves such gentle care--it shouldn't be reserved for skin around the eyes. Although more antioxidants and some cell-communicating ingredients would've made this even better, this deserves our top rating due to its value for sensitive skin."

Estee Lauder's Verite is another great one for sensitive skin, but is twice the price of the one above.
Paula's review:
"Verite Special EyeCare is a very emollient, water-based moisturizer that contains a good mix of skin-identical ingredients, antioxidants, and cell-communicating ingredients. Like all Verite products, this is fragrance-free."

It has been ages since I've really investigated makeup, and never have I spent $ on skin care beyond the very basics. Thank you for doing this "legwork," inc. ideas of where to buy! I usually use Amazon but I know it's not always the cheapest.

Now I'll throw something else in for consideration . . .what about Paula's products? I looked for reviews about her own wrinkle creams (on her site!) and, of course, it was not NEARLY as clear that nothing would eliminate wrinkles. :)

She has some sample sizes, but I am guessing they would not be enough to tell if they make a difference?

I am thinking of her "Resist" line.

I like your comment about "freshness," stinky! (Though maybe you have to change your screen name, ha, ha!) I know I don't look fresh . . .I am pretty tired with the newborn and my 4 y.o. being sick for a week. It's not so much the newborn, I should say, just what she needs on top of what everyone else needs. She's sleeping pretty well at least! Once I get more rest + exercise and SOME sort of retinol, I am hoping to see a difference!

I LOVE Nivea Creme for my face. It is very thick and heavy, you can't slap it on and run out the door - you have to wait a bit for it to sink in or only use it at night but I swear it is the best moisturizer I have ever used. I also like to use olive oil or jojoba oil. I use them on my face and neck, and add some to my body lotion too.

Anele, I think Paula's products are great (but did I ever meet a beauty product that I didn't like, LOL?)

Seriously, I really love the Resist Daily Smoothing Treatment! Also, have used Paula's sunscreen daily, for over fifteen years! Started out with the non-greasy formula & have been using the Extra Care Moisturizing spf 30 for the last several years. You can't go wrong w/any of her products. She has a 60-day return policy if you really hate something!

Sorry your little girl has been under the weather! A bug of some kind has been going around, & with a newborn, you must be really busy right now! A little extra rest & bit of pampering with some new "girlie" stuff, & you will see & feel that "glow" again, I promise! Don't forget to stay hydrated & drink plenty of water or/and herbal tea.

You made me laugh about my screen name! Hmmm...Fresh-Gardener? Nah.

I use Adapalene in a cream form. It is similar to Retin A & Renova, but much gentler. My derm gave it to me for milia & adult acne (so unfair! Wrinkles & blemishes? No one warned me.) She said I would also love what it did for my crow's feet etc. I no longer have any crow's feet. It does not take away deep furrows, I don't think anything topical can do that, but my skin looks beautiful and it is line free.

SueB, it sounds like we may have similar skin types. I struggled to find a moisturizer for my dry, aging, milia-prone, adult acne-plagued skin. I finally settled on Korres Wild Rose Serum and Juice Beauty's Green Apple Anti-Oxidant Moisturizer. Korres Wild Rose mask is also fantastic.

For those of us...ahem..with "mature" skin Obagi products are great for wrinkles, crows feet and hyperpigmentation. I have been using the system for about 3 years and it has really made a difference. The system does include Retin A and the first 6 weeks can be a little rough with redness and peeling but after that-wow! When I look at my before pictures I can't believe I looked that bad. I will probably use this the rest of my life I am so happy with it. The initial system is expensive but it does last for about 4 months and now I just buy the particular product I am low on so the cost isn't bad. Definitely less expensive in the long run for me because I was always looking for the next best thing and wasting lots of money! You do have to get the Retin A by prescription but now I buy what I need on Amazon for ess than I pay at my doctor's office.

I don't have wrinkles, partly due to genetics and partly because I have extra fat in my face. It's not just in my hips. LOL

I am getting ready to begin drinking pure aloe vera juice again. I drank it years ago and then stopped. Just recently I learned it can have a great affect on your skin from the inside out. Make sure to get the clear aloe vera however, that is made only from the pulp inside the plant. The stuff made with the entire plant is very rough on the stomach. I wish I could remember where I use to buy the clear stuff. It's difficult to find. I did find some online, but I'd like to find it locally and save on postage. Anyone using the clear aloe vera for drinking?

I've been using a Neutrogena AHA Cleanser for years. I keep it in the shower and apply it with a little exfoliating pad daily. I also use SkinCeuticals Retinol 1.0 and C E Ferulic which is an antioxidant & vitamin c serum. Those are the main things for me: AHA, exfoliation, Retinal, antioxidant/vit C.

I don't really care about wrinkles, they are fact of life but I want my skin to be blemish free and have an even/luminous tone. Also, I don't want to look younger than my age - I just don't want to look older!

I just got back from Costco where I bought two 1.1 ounce (larger tubes - an extra 0.1 ounce) for $28.00. Amazon's price is $17.58 for one ounce. I did use this about a year ago, and when my skin got a bit dry I counteracted it with my homemade rosewater and glycerin spray, so I'll probably do that again. I remember someone commenting on my skin around that time. I don't know why I didn't repurchase it then.

Soo.... these Roc products, do you guys use them every night? Do you use a moisturizer over them?

I know I can't use them right now but I'm making a list.

Funny wrinkles story....I thought I was doing OK in the wrinkle deptartment as in not too many. Then, I traded my Dodge Grand Caravan for a Lexus sedan. Well, I found that in the Lexus I am a whole lot closer to the rear view mirror. Holy cow! What are these lines on my forehead! I never really noticed at home in the bathroom...apparently I should get new glasses!

Shee, I don't use it every night, maybe 2-3 times a week. I use a grainy exfoliant one night a week & really like to use the RoC product that night. It's even more effective after exfoliating. I do always use a moisurizer over it.

Rucnmom, that's hilarious!

I have been doing a lot of research! What else can I do while I nurse the baby . . .

I used Paula's reviews and skin care routine plan to make my choice. I also stuck to products that have not been tested on animals. Finally, I tried to get the most for my $ since I don't want to love something too expensive! I went for the cheapest but best (according to reviews).

She says you need:
1. cleanser
2. toner (I did not get one; did not find one cheap enough that had a good rating)
3. exfoliant (AHA or BHA)
4. moisturizer (with sunscreen during the day)

Cleanser: Alpha Hydrox Foaming Face Wash (this is FREE right now on drugstore.com if you buy any other Alpha Hydrox product)
Exfoliant: Alpha Hydrox AHA Lotion (this was cheaper on Amazon if you have Prime)
Moisturizer: I got two-- one for day and one for night
Day: Kiss my Face Factor Face + Neck
Night: Alpha Hydrox Retinol ResQ

I think I spent a little over $40 for everything . . .drugstore.com has free ship if you spend $25 (bought everything there except the AHA lotion).

rucnmom- hahahahaha!!!! It's like those skinny mirrors at the store!! Don't get new glasses!

Okay, I so do NOT get toners. What the heck do they do? Every time I have asked an "expert" the answers seem that toner is pretty much redundant.

1. "Toners remove any lingering traces of oil or cosmetics that remain on your face.". So maybe I should just wash better?

2. "Toners close your pores after cleansing.". Don't I want the pores to remain open for the moisturizer that is coming next?

I am very intrigued by the use of Vitamin C in skin care. Does anyone notice that it makes a difference?

Nicole

Nicole, I am not 100% sold on them, either, but Paula says this about them:

Toners are meant to be used after cleansing. They once were recommended as a way to restore skin's pH balance after using a bar soap or bar cleanser because those types of cleansers raise the skin's natural pH to a level that isn't good for your skin.

However, with today's gentle, water-soluble cleansers, the skin's pH doesn't change appreciably, and the fact that skin's pH recovers just fine on its own made the need for toners to adjust skin's pH fade away.

What we now know is that after cleansing, what your skin needs is a range of ingredients that restore and repair its surface. Skin can never get too much of these important ingredients, which include antioxidants and skin-repairing substances such as glycerin, fatty acids, and ceramides. The right toner can give your skin a healthy dose of what it needs to look younger, fresher, and smoother, right after cleansing and throughout the day.

Here is a link that might be useful: Do I Need a Toner?

Anele, I think you did very well for a $40.00 investment! Using Paula's reviews insure that your items will be good, non-irritating products. I subscribe to her Beautypedia & love the updates & reviews.

Yes, Paula has never been too enthusiastic about toners, but included them in her line, I think, to please women who simply enjoy using one. Hers of course, are full of antioxidants & other goodies. They aren't the usual irritating or do-nothing toners!

I use one by Merle Norman-Luxiva Daily Moisture Toner. It is one of the very few toners (other than her own) Paula gives an outstanding review.

Thanks for the clarification Stinky. I always feel like I'm diluting products by layering them but I know you kind of have to at times.

Anele - I'm going to try the Kiss My Face! I was looking for a different sunscreen.

I honestly don't have wrinkles and I'm 61 soon to be 62 in March. With the exception being under my eyes, not bad, but I know in about three years it will get worse. I have no problem with doing Botox.

But, from the time I was 16 I have moisturized even though I have oily skin.

For all the younger women on here please moisturize and wash your face at night, it works.

Now if only I would of started exercisizing earlier and kept up with my spelling.

....Jane

If any of you are vitamin c serum users, did you know you can make your own at home? I used to love Cellex-C but it would oxidize too quickly. There are a lot of recipes online and they really work well. I buy Vit C. crystals at Trader Joe's and mix them with glycerin and water -- comes to cents for a bottle rather than $100 per bottle. I can't tell the difference in the results.

Gail I would love to have your recipe for Vitamin C serum. I will be near a Trader Joes's this weekend so I will get some of the crystals then. I already make my own glycerin and rosewater spray to mist on my face.

Hi Terri - The recipe I use is one tsp. vitamin c crystals, three tsp. water (they say to use distilled but I always forget to buy it and use plain tap water) and one tsp. glycerine. The only thing is, I have a hard time getting the crystals to completely dissolve. I read if you add a drop of vodka, or even rubbing alcohol, that helps the crystals dissolve. I used gin (tanqueray!) and it worked great in dissolving them. There are many variations of this recipe online, with some using a higher ratio of vitamin c and others using a lower ratio, so I think you can really play around with it and see what works best for you. If you have a amber or dark colored bottle with a dropper to store it in that is best. I use my old Cellex-C bottle. Exposure to light will speed up oxidation.

I've been thinking the same thing since before Christmas, and have decided to get a peel, not dermabrasion, but something stronger than just a normal chemical peel.

I have lines/wrinkles in various places, and even though they're not the worst I've ever seen, they're on 'my' face, so I would like to eliminate them.

Apparently, they're are treatments you only need to have one time, but you do need to stay out of the sun and continually wear sunscreen. Now I just need to find a reputable dermatologist or maybe even a cosmetic surgeon. Has anyone else considered this sort of treatment?

I meant a laser treatment, not a peel.

Here are several at home peels that may work better than others on the market.

gail, thanks for the recipe. Do you use any other creams/lotions with the serum?

I use it in the morning after washing my face and then, after letting it sink in for about ten minutes, I apply whatever moisturizer i want for that day. I kind of switch around with moisturizers. Sometimes I use olive oil or jojoba oil, sometimes Nivea Creme or some other moisturizer. Be sure to use just a small amount of the serum so it is a very light coating - more will just make your face feel tacky all day. A little really does go a long way. I also apply it to my neck and chest because I have terrible sun damage there! Wish I hadn't spent so much time in the sun in v-neck t-shirts!

Here is a little bit of information on Argan Oil which I am loving. I use on my face and hair. It helps reduce frizziness from humidity. You can fin it online, vitamin stores, or in the natural section of grocers, like Whole Foods. Although it's called an oil, it is not oily or greasy on your skin or hair of which I have both.

Here is a link that might be useful: argan oil

Lots of good suggestions here but I want to add one thing. I noticed in the original post she said she used sunblock but she still burned. That just means that it is not being used correctly.

Most people do not use enough and do not reapply it. You need to use a BROAD spectrum sunblock, I suggest at least a 30 and apply it generously all the way down and over the upper chest area.

Just because it says it blocks UVA and UVB doesn't mean it blocks enough of the UVA, which doesn't burn but causes skin damage and wrinkles. Make sure it says broad spectrum. You need to use it everyday, even if you don't think you will be outside much or it's cloudy/raining. Plans and weather change.

Before using sunscreen please google 'dangers of sunscreen' for pertinent info.

Also google the side effects of retinol before using. Always good to know all the facts.

Don't lose weight if you want to avoid wrinkles! Fat causes wrinkles to stay plumped up and less obvious. However, it's not a healthy state to be overweight. When I lost weight wrinkles became more obvious. I try to stay well-hydrated, eat healthy foods, stay out of the sun except for brief periods, and moisturize with organic coconut oil. I believe that any wrinkles I have are well-earned and not anything to stress over. Stress also causes more wrinkles as well as worse health conditions! Stay happy, smile and don't frown, and you'll mostly have laugh lines which can be quite attractive!

Just want to suggest a site that I use regularly for product reviews. All those creams, etc. are expensive!! I especially like that you can search by age group.

Here is a link that might be useful: makeupalley.com