You might want to get him tested for IQ or giftedness or whatever they do to determine a child's aptitude. (Can you tell I've always had normal, average/above average kids who obviously aren't ahead in their class!)

It sounds like he might be bored and if the classroom tasks aren't keeping him occupied then perhaps he needs some additional work assigned, or even see if he should be in 1st grade instead of kindergarten.

Every kid is different, and holding back kids because of birthdays doesn't always work. As he gets older, the obvious difference in his abilities vs. the other kids will be even more apparent.

Goodluck, while having an extra smart kid is a blessing it can also be difficult to keep them motivated as it would be if he struggled with his classwork.

Sounds like he is bored. He may be ahead in class in his class due to his late birthday as was the case with my DD.

Mostly, teachers used DD in a positive way, she would help out other students who were having a difficult time (not needing formal tutoring). Went that way through senior year. Yes, she was challenged in a few classes over the years, but I am/was very disappointed in the No Child Left Behind Act. It is total bull IMHO. If your child is smart, chances are that child will not attain his/her full potential because of the NCLBA.

I hope you can work with your DS' teachers through the years as being ahead can be a positive or a negative. It will depend on how your school handles childrens' needs.

I definitely would give him another outlet. Let him pick what he wants to do and make him stick with it for as long as he originally signs on for. Art classes, music lessons, a sport of his choosing, whatever your child is good at he needs to get some positive feedback or he will not flourish.

I wish you the best as it is a long hard road.

What month did he turn 6? I think teachers want little 6 year old boys to act like 6 year old girls. They are boys!! It takes them longer to focus and their minds to catch up with the girls.

My DS is 6 (will be 7 in April) and we put him in a private KDG last year, that really wasn't called Kdg, so he could be ready for Kdg in Public School. He is one of the boys that does focus and pay attention well, but, there are plenty of boys in his class and he has his little friends at our house quite a bit and they have a lot of energy at school and thankfully his teachers is aware of the difference between boys and girls. My DS saves all of his energy and his bad behavior for his dad and me-LOL!

I mean, all-day Kdg is a new concept with Kdg nowadays. Our society pushes these NORMAL boys to be calm and collected, when they just aren't ready for it. I bet you, your son will be just fine come 2nd and 3rd grade.

I don't think we should let our little boys get away with too much, but, just understand them. It doesn't sound like he is a discipline problem, so I wouldn't worry too much. I know, I would too, but, if he is a young KDG, sounds normal to me.

BTW, does his teacher have any kids herself, and, if so, boys? I have worked in the school system and have seen teachers that have girls only and they truly just don't understand boys. School doesn't even prepare them!

You can really tell the difference in the boys in his class that are the young Kindergarteners and the older ones.

olliesmom said what I was going to say in her first sentence. He's a little boy and nothing in his behavior strikes me as as out of the ordinary - many boys have trouble adjusting to the 'scheduling' of school and not to frighten you, but honestly, some never totally adjust. I have 2 boys now 24 and 20 and my youngest STILL struggles with scheduling. He's in college and handles his life just fine but some things are just more difficult for him, may always be that way, but he compensates.

I'm curious about the 'taking of privileges' though. I have a problem with 'punishment' being dealt out at home for behavior displayed at school. IMO that's not fair to him. My son had a teacher who insisted that we back her by taking privileges from our son at home - I refused. If he didn't do his homework at home, then I would limit or remove tv or computer. But if his 'bad' behavior was only at school, I wouldn't punish what I wasn't involved in because I think it sends the wrong message. There's a big difference between that and supporting the school and whatever consequences they put in place - that I would do. If he received a lunch detention (not being allowed to participate in recess) I'd tell him that's the result of not doing what the teacher told him to do.

Don't underestimate the power of positive rewards. I am a teacher, though I only do long-term subbing these days. Sometimes I think kids will do ANYTHING for a sticker, LOL! (I routinely give them out to kids who come into the classroom and get ready for the day, who are not talking when others are, who do an especially good job at something, etc. Instantly the whole classroom pulls it together! Of course, it isn't just the sticker, it is the feeling they get in front of their peers for getting caught doing something right. I almost never have to use negative consequences with students, especially ones who meet your son's description. A sticker contract often works very well for kids who are a bit off-task and wiggly. Here's the way I've implemented it: the student has a little booklet (can be an index card folded in half). There is a spot for each teacher to put a sticker if he does well. So there is a spot for his main teacher and then any art, PE, etc. teacher he sees that day. At the end of his time with each teacher, she either gives him with a sticker or not. The reward from you does not have to be huge. Because of his young age I would start tracking him daily at first. If he earns stickers from all teachers, he gets an ice-cream after school, half-an hour of tv time, you play a game with him, etc. It can be useful to have the child suggest the reward. After he gets the hang of it, then you can go to weekly rewards -though you can't expect perfection-. Essentially you are training him in appropriate behavior. Hopefully at some point the reward system will not be necessary -he will have developed the habits of appropriate classroom behavior. Another thing I think is helpful is to ask the teacher to put some perspective on it -is he the least-focused student? In the middle? There is definitely an age-appropriate component to this, but if she is an experienced teacher and feels he stands out because of his lack of focus, then she should be allowing for that in her assessment.

I'm often struck by how surprised and puzzled young children are by behavior expectations in the classroom. I've had even 2nd and 3rd graders ask me, "Am I being good?" with such sincerity that I can tell they genuinely don't know themselves. It takes a long time for some kids to figure it all out, but very, very few kids are immune to positive rewards. On days he doesn't earn a sticker, it may help him to have a very matter-of-fact conversation about what 'went wrong' that day. He's just learning and some days he'll do better than others. He has to realize that is okay too. So long as he has a respectful attitude toward school, and is ready to learn while he is there, he's on the right track.

I don't want to start a controversy here, but having raised a gifted son myself (18 now), and taught many, I don't put much stock in the 'He's bored' theory. Truly, for gifted children, extra work is not going to solve the problem of boredom. They are typically so far above the class that it just annoys them. That said, ANY student that age needs to have something constructive to do when his work is complete. Does the classroom have a library of books he finds interesting? Can he bring his own book and read it when he finishes the class work? Can the teacher set up a challenging jigsaw puzzle on a table at the back and make it available to any child who has finished their work? Boredom will happen forever in school. I wish it didn't, and I work my butt of to stave off the beast, but there are times it is unavoidable. But as I said, any teacher worth her salt should always have outlets for the students who have finished their work.

I think that there's a reason why Kindergarten used to only be a half day program. Lots of kids (especially boys) have trouble "focusing" for that long. It sounds like your son is a smart creative kid who is being stifled. I'm not sure that more classes and structure are necessary.

Great post from BestYears --

I especially like the 'puzzle in the back of the room' idea.
Being assigned even more 'too easy' work is no reward!

I love the puzzle idea too, I'd suggest it to the teacher and even donate a few.

But I did get a good chuckle from your post. My oldest son had a similar problem all during elementary school. Each parent-teacher conference was the same, "He day dreams too much!" while making good grades. It worried me to death!

Now he's a Civil Engineer. :)

Although I do have to say, I am against gifted classes and labeling students as "gifted." My youngest son was gifted and he stayed in all the regular classes. Ironically, most of the labeled and secluded gifted kids didn't pursue any big degrees which a teacher told me at one time they ALL catch up with each other in high school, which they did. But that's another topic. lol.

Just try to get him to calm down in class and he'll be fine. He's being a typical boy. I had all boys and they entertained me 24/7. I miss those days!

I also agree with bestyear's post, and also with dlm regarding the taking of privileges for misdeeds at school. He is only six....and he is being punished at school, sent to his room after school, and losing privileges for a week? That seems very harsh to me.

Poor kid probably doesn't know which end is up. If he's bored at school he gets more junk work to do. Makes no sense to me. If punishment was teaching him a lesson, why do you have to keep punishing him for the same misdeeds? He's not a slow learner, he's bright. I think he's being taught the wrong things.

Sherry

Oh, gosh. Where do I begin? There are too many things wrong with this picture. Your son IS bored. Your son does know how to focus. He proves this to you when he reads that big stack of books!

The problem is, too often parents and teachers blame children instead of blaming the situation. This should be reversed. I have an excellent article on this (see below). Teachers and parents want cooperation and submissiveness. It's easier, but that doesn't make it right. Your son, thankfully, is speaking up (in a 6 yo way of speaking up-- by acting out).

Stickers and other extrinsic rewards devalue learning, plain and simple. I have yet to meet a child who does NOT love to learn, but I know plenty of children who resist being forced to learn something that is irrelevant to them. It's like a quote, "Learning can only happen when a child is interested. If he's not interested, it's like throwing marshmallows at his head and calling it eating." While rewards may work, they should be used in a very limited capacity-- a situation which is finite (like learning to use the toilet).

As for the whole, "they all catch up" idea related to giftedness, this is not true. We are not all the same. We do not all share the same IQ. Is every athlete Michael Jordan? Of course not! But of course, when it comes to intelligence, there is some idea that we all somehow become "equal" eventually. I am an online instructor for a college, and I can tell you right now, NO, we do not all catch up. Many of my students have serious gaps. Some of my students are brilliant. My daughter thinks differently (better!) at the age of 7 than I do at the age of 36. She always will. When am I going to catch up to her? When I'm 100? Remember, ACHIEVEMENT is different than giftedness. My DH is gifted, and I'm not . . .but I'm the one with the master's while he didn't finish college. When he was competing for a job, he was the only one (even compared to college grads) who passed a test, so he got hired.

My oldest DD skipped a grade (KG to 2nd) and she was still bored. The teacher didn't know what to do with a 6 y.o. who read at an 8th grade + level (and could also analyze what she read that that level). So, we homeschool now. I suggest that route if possible (though it means I stay up late at night working to help pay the bills). If not, maybe Montessori, if possible. In Montessori, the teacher follows the student, not the other way around.

I am NOT knocking teachers. I used to be one. My mom was, too-- she even founded a public school. BUT, teachers have limited resources, many demands, etc.

Just remember to be an advocate for your son. While he needs to respect his teacher, he should have work and physical outlets that are appropriate for him. His behavior is mistaken-- it's not misbehavior (there's no such thing).

Here is a link that might be useful: In Defense of Children Behaving Badly

My six kids were all labeled "gifted" and went to schools for gifted kids. They all have advanced degrees. And so do most of the gifted kids they went to school with. I don't think it's fair to knock "giftedness." That teacher mislead you badly, oakleyoak. Anele, you said it very well.

Great post Anele -I agree with most of your points, and the linked article was terrific. I get frustrated at the constant disconnect between the world of academia (where studies of how children learn, what works in classrooms, etc.) rarely make it down to the local school. To the extent that individual teachers seek out this information, it becomes useful and sometimes implemented. But left to the administrators and districts, it rarely does. Instead it's just a big chase to improve test scores. Very frustrating.

You are right of course about giftedness. It is an unfortunate term. Gifted kids range from about 5% of the population to 1% (depending on how profoundly gifted you are talking about). They don't outgrow it, and everybody doesn't 'catch up' -but there are many teachers who espouse this. I believe these teachers are thinking about high-achieving children, particularly those who have had lots of enrichment in the early years. In that case, I agree, yes, typically those children will level out and be more like their peers than they were in early elementary.

One thing I didn't see mentioned in the study, which I am always coming up against... there appears to be a link between poor classroom performance and poor behavior. A child will often act out because they simply can't do the work, and they don't want to expose themselves by sitting down and doing it wrong. Most children, unless they are very bright, will not admit they cannot do something. They feel terrible about it, like they are stupid and different from the others. So instead of sitting attentively and trying to simplify the fractions, they'll goof around, walk around the room, talk to friends, etc. If the teacher has a good relationship with the kid, you can work through this and get to the learning. But there are some children for whom learning is very, very, very difficult. I know that's too many 'very's" but I don't know how else to say it. When a child has a fairly low IQ, and is getting fairly low grades, in the absence of other criteria, they are performing 'as expected' and there are no special services for them. So I have had students with a measured IQ of 80, and it is nearly impossible, but fully expected, that I teach them the complete curriculum that every other student in that grade level is learning. It is outrageously time consuming. I might spend 45 minutes one on one with that child, only to more or less start from scratch the next day because they have not been able to retain most of it over night. You would be right if you imagine that this leaves the average, (and certainly the above-average students in the classroom) on their own too much of the time. My point is that disruptive behavior *can* be an indicator of learning difficulties -sometimes because of specific disabilities, sometimes because of general low abilities. We need to accept that children, like all people, are not all the same. We don't start every kid who makes the football team, on the first-string. And we don't kid ourselves that by senior year, they'll all be amazing athletes. Somehow we all accept that. But we throw kids of a certain age all into the same classroom and expect it to work. It is very frustrating for teachers, not to mention the students who have little choice but to accept this less than exhilarating experience in school.

One clarification about token rewards (and it is entirely possible I am being too defensive here) -I use stickers precisely so that we call all get to the business of learning. It is an efficient way of managing behavior so that I don't spend all my time and efforts there, and instead can sit down with a group of attentive students and discuss the feelings of the colonists toward England, or how to 'show not tell', etc. It doesn't by any means induce a child to learn, just to behave in a way that the classroom can hum along.

The fact that he drifts in all his classes raises some flags for me. There isn't a subject that commands his sustained attention? And you say you have to sit on him at home to complete tasks he doesn't want to do, and he gets bored fast. This could be the typical immaturity of a six year old boy, but it could be attention deficit disorder too. I have a gifted ADD son who sailed through elementary school, was well behaved, well liked, well *everything* -- except he did float off from tasks. It was the only sign. (He is not hyperactive.) I attributed it to his highly social nature -- always wanting to see what others were up to -- and being the youngest of my sons. He began having academic problems in 8th grade (disorganization), and unfortunately, it's been tough going for him ever since. The giftedness masked his disability very well, and we didn't figure out what the problem was until late in high school. So he missed out on years of special services that he really could have used.

Anyway, not trying to alarm you, but you might want to keep possible ADD in the back of your mind. If your son's behavior is radically different from the other children, it bears watching. Giftedness is often used as an excuse for different behaviors & quirks, when actually most gifted children focus in, complete tasks, and behave pretty well.

My two very bright kids began to hate reading because of a reward system called "Accelerated Reader" at their elementary school. Students were required to read the AR books and then be tested on them to earn points. Points were redeemed for "jewels" that they could put on their banner. The problem was there were not enough interesting AR books in their reading level. Reading became a chore for them. Instead of fostering a love of reading the program just fed into materialistic acquisition.
My daughter, now 23, did start to enjoy reading again in her last couple of years of high school and now books are always on her Christmas and Birthday wishlists, but my 21 year old son rarely reads for pleasure, since he associates reading with drudgery. There were books that he wanted to read in elementary school. He loved the Lemony Snicket books, but they weren't part of the program at the time, so he was stuck reading something he considered boring. It's just another example of how the good intentions of a reward system can backfire.

OK, now I am really worried, after reading that article!

My DS, is really such a good student NOW in Kdg, always listens, does his work, reads well, but, not off the charts and minds the teacher. So, it sounds like from that article, we could be in real trouble! LOL!

bestyears, I wish my DD would have had you as her teacher! You "get" it. As you said, people confuse high achievement with giftedness, and this is unfortunate.

RE: "there appears to be a link between poor classroom performance and poor behavior. A child will often act out because they simply can't do the work, and they don't want to expose themselves by sitting down and doing it wrong."

I completely agree with this-- but I think it even applies to children who are gifted (so anyone on either end of the continuum). Gifted children may understand how to do it, but may not care about the work. Part of it is personality as well, I think. My oldest daughter is far more likely to challenge the work (question why she has to do something when she really already knows how to do it). My 2nd DD, however, is gifted as well, but is the kind of person who ASKS for workbooks, likes to show what she can do, etc. Believe it or not, my 2nd DD's behavior is generally much more difficult, except when it comes to that type of thing! My oldest is far more cooperative on the whole.

RE: "So I have had students with a measured IQ of 80, and it is nearly impossible, but fully expected, that I teach them the complete curriculum that every other student in that grade level is learning."
This is ridiculous, but I always wonder-- with the way schools are set up now, what can be done? I know the push is for cooperative learning, but I think it's unrealistic to think it is the cure-all.

I am not shooting down your use of rewards. The thing is, as much as people criticize schools, teaching methods, etc., unless they've taught in a classroom, they don't understand how hard it can be, and how certain things simply need to be done to keep order. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to use them, but in an ideal world, we also wouldn't have these enormous class sizes, limited space and resources, etc. (That's where Alfie Kohn and I part ways . . .he's all for criticizing, but does not offer enough solutions!) In the case of the OP, however, trying to bribe a child to cooperate-- in KINDERGARTEN (where it should be mostly free choice anyway!)to do work that is probably far too easy, however . . .that isn't right.

awm: RE: "Giftedness is often used as an excuse for different behaviors & quirks, when actually most gifted children focus in, complete tasks, and behave pretty well."
Where are you getting this information? (I know that sounds snippy since it's online, but I am genuinely curious, not trying to sound rude!) From what I understand, gifted children can be completely different from each other, based not only on personality, but IQ as well. The higher the IQ, generally, the harder it is for a child to be accommodated in the classroom. So, even in a gifted classroom, there can be tremendous differences among students.

Giftedness aside, I don't think a 6 y.o. boy (or girl) should have to sit for any length of time. Most early childhood teachers agree that first grade is the hardest to teach. IMO, it's because children are not developmentally ready for seatwork in such large quantities. Instead of moving 1st grade down to KG, we should be moving KG UP to 1st (and 2nd) grade. What a difference it would be, if we could have mostly learning centers in 1st and 2nd (and 3rd, etc) grade!

Here is a link that might be useful: The Challenge of Boys in Our Early Childhood Programs

Hi anele, I don't mind your asking at all. Good for you for questioning.

The info was taken from literature given to me by my children's gifted & talented teachers many years ago, and unfortunately, I don't have it any more to cite it. I'm pretty sure the info was this: Characteristics and Behavior of the Gifted, which takes info from the ERIC Clearinghouse on Handicapped and Gifted Children (1985).
The parts about gifted children interacting well with adults (teachers), excellent concentration, good abstract reasoning (understanding what's appropriate behavior & what isn't), from my seven years in working & volunteering in elementary school, ring true. I'm not saying this is true for every gifted child, because of course there are some with with different behaviors (like 2 of my sons).

Also, I'm reacting from my own experience. My oldest son is highly gifted & always had behavioral quirks & problems that teachers were quick to write off as related to his giftedness. We found out after he had a complete breakdown in college at age 20 that he has a nasty learning disability (Nonverbal Learning Disorder/Aspergers). I always suspected that he had one, but his teachers & testers (education specialists, mind you) scoffed at the idea. "With an IQ like THAT?!" said one. Our youngest, the ADD one, had a similar experience. So I'm *very* leery of people who attribute kids' behavior issues to giftedness.

I have to run, but will be glad to discuss it more.

Ttodd, he's a six year old boy. He's by nature and definition a talkative, curious, wiggly creature who can't control himself for more than a few minutes at a stretch. Maybe his classroom environment is simply asking for too much "good little student" and not allowing for enough "normal little boy".

When he was in Pre-K, K and 1st grade, my son had many of the same problems you describe. He was a little boy. And he was bored. We found what worked best was that our son was required to finish his assignments, but after that he was free to do any other classroom activity or read (his own books from home or classroom books) as long as he did not disrupt the rest of the class. That worked very well for us. He pretty quickly figured out what was disruptive for the other children (because his teachers would tell him and we would talk it over that afternoon) and what wasn't. He read a lot, drew and colored a lot, did his own math problems a lot. It didn't 100% solve the problem, but his disruptive behavior was toned way down.

I'm not saying that's the right approach for your son. It just helped us a great deal.

He's a boy. He's smart. Being smart and a boy seems to be red flags for teachers. I wouldn't punish him for anything that happens at school, with the exceptions of fighting and talking back.

Martial arts might help him with focus, but I think there's plenty of other ways to do it. Does he have a special interest that he could pursue outside of school, like science or building things? Would he like to learn to cook?

My son went through this at school, and I think even a 6 year old needs a place where he can feel like he's mastering something, since school's not helping him in that way. My kid got lucky with a great after-school program that extended into a day camp in summer. No matter how he "failed" at sitting still, he was a big hit at camp.

Yes, we had him tested for ADD. (I'm so ADD, I practically flicker.) But medication only does so much, and I don't think it should be the first choice. You could have him tested for all the various sensory integration and learning stuff, just to be sure.

But your kid needs an advocate--I don't believe in siding with the teacher just because she's the adult in charge.

I've been vorociously reading your posts - thank you!

In answer to some questions: Honestly I'm not sure how long she has been teaching. She is very young. She does only have 2 daughters of her own both of whom are the same ages as 2 of my kids.

I come from a family that only knew how to give birth to girls so I was never exposed to 'boy behavior'. DH's family only knows how to give birth to boys so when he saw my struggles trying to undersatnd boy behavior and mentality he bought a book for me called 'Mothers Raising Strong Sons' or something like that. He'd read the companion book Fathers Raising Strong Sons and thoroughly enjoyed the perspective. He knew he could tell me a zillion times about boys but that I would have to read it myself. Anyway after reading the book I was able to wrap my brain around my boys and their play together but I hadn't considered the school expectations.

A part of me keeps thinking 'Well - he's a boy and he seems to be acting okay to me as frustrating as certain things can be.' and I keep thinking that this whole full day Kindergarten is a bit much. At home he's used to working for a block of time and then playing, then work, then play and so on.

Now I do think that he might be a bit immature for his age but he'll grow into that w/ time. And I've always told my kids that once your work is done and it's done right - play all you want. "Play, play, play, play play as much as possible - imagine and exercise your brain! Enjoy it now. If I stop you to do something - do it and go back to play." There's very limited TV so my kids are used to roaming around playing all day.

After reading your posts I asked myself why I changed my discipline plan/ policy on him. In preschool it was (and is w/ our current child in preschool) that if you got in trouble at school and you were punished at school then your 'time' was done but nothing additional happens at home besides our talk aboiut what happened. I do believe that moving into elementary school is a bigger ball game and that there should be consequences at home so what DH and I agreed on was that since he had recess taken away that day that his punishment was done. He has to work on it w/ the teacher as she discussed what was expected and how they would reach that goal together. If it it happens again (which we suspect it will at some point) we will all sit down w/ the teacher and figure some things out.

When parenting classes are available we try to take them mostly so that I can regroup and get my focus going again and that has helped alot w/ me calming down on them and being realistic but it's important for him to realize that other people have other rules and he has to learn to abide by them.

DS1 isn't as inclined to play group sports (he's played for 3yrs) and has shown great interest in martial arts and tap dancing so we hope that we can get him enrolled in something like that. DH is also keeping his eyes and ears open for 'game clubs' like checkers or chess since DS1 LOVES games like that. Something that will teach him to focus while doing something that he really likes.

Is he gifted? Never even crossed my mind at his age - so much going on in transition w/ him. He just loves to read and both sides of our families are such huge readers so whereever he goes he always sees aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents w/ books reading and that's the only reason that I think he's such a good reader.

I've been in the classroom and observed when invited and I've gone into the classroom to lead projects w/ the kids, field trips and all of that and I often get the impression that w/ full day kindergarten sometimes even the teachers are looking for ANYTHING to help fill the day, knowing that the age group only has a certain level of focus.

I keep thinking that this whole full day Kindergarten is a bit much. At home he's used to working for a block of time and then playing, then work, then play and so on.

That's what Kindergarten should be like! I think that they are pushing academics waaay too early. Children learn by playing. They will have the rest of their lives to sit quietly working.

ttodd - quick response here because I'm short on time at the moment. However, your last post mentioned recess being taken away as a punishment. Recess should NEVER be taken away from a child. I would insist that the teacher not use that as punishment. Children NEED to move. Movement actually helps people to concentrate better. Keeping him in for recess will make matters worse.

A great book to check out is called "Smart Moves - Why Learning is Not All in Your Head", by Carla Hannaford. Another book is called, "What Happened to Recess and Why Are Our Children Struggling in Kindergarten?" by Susan Ohanian.

Your son sounds very normal to me!

I am a special education teacher. There is a lot of good stuff here! I agree-don't take away recess. Maybe extra recess breaks could be built in as a reward. Lots of schools near me are moving toward adding recess rather than cutting back on it! I also agree that consequences for school behaviors should be at school. When they tell me how hard it is to get their child to do homework or whatever, I always tell my parents not to fight that battle. The natural consequence will be at school. Let him/her come without completed homework and we will address the issue. I also beg them to limit video games and tv to weekends and only an hour a day then. Get them out, run them around the park, visit the zoo, go to the children's museum, hike, garden, whatever. An experience can become the source of a project to share with the class. I also ask them to read with their children. Although many of my parents don't speak English and a number are illiterate in their own languages, they can let their kids read to them if need be or just look at pictures together to foster a sense of curiosity.

One of the reasons I am happy (yep, that is the word!) to pay my taxes is that I know teachers need smaller classes, more computers in the classrooms, and plenty of practical hands-on training to help give them strategies for teaching that will engage those kiddoes and foster a love for learning.

I would also love to see our society give more respect to those children who may not be on a college track (your 70-80 IQ children-and please note I said 'may not"), but rather headed in a vocational direction. We all need to recognize the immense value in that as well. Quite a few of them have skills and talents I could never hope to have-please don't ask me about electrical wiring or plumbing...to me it is magic!

Rant over-ttodd, all in all from your last post, I think you are looking at this the right way. Keep that joy alive!

Ugh. The taking away of recess hit a nerve with me. My now 13yo son is both gifted and ADHD and had his share of difficulties in school. His K teacher had been teaching for nearly 30 yrs and was wonderful. His 1st grade teacher noticed that he would fidget & cause problems when he was bored and would give him extra math packets to work on.(He's gifted in math, science, & spatial relations.)

His second grade teacher (a very young, new teacher) was a whole other story. At the first parent-teacher conference of the year, she informed me that my son couldn't perform basic math skills(What?!) and that she was keeping him in to finish classwork. I told her that he was bored with the basic addition that they were working on and could perform multiplication, and had a basic understanding of fractions and division. I also said that if she paid attention she would realize that he was not in fact struggling, that he was staring out the window or playing with his pencil and that keeping him in at recess is contra-indicated for an ADHD child. She punished him for his behavior by keeping him in at recess, repeatedly. Without the energy outlet, he was even more of a problem in the afternoon. I discovered that a handful of boys, never girls, and not all with ADHD were being kept in at recess. This teacher continued to insist that he was struggling in math until the state tests were administered and he was in the 99th percentile. At which point she wrote on his progress report that he had made remarkable strides. Arrrrgh! She is no longer teaching and now works in her family's restaurant. TG!

Things that have worked for focus. A good breakfast with at least 20grams of protein. Same with lunch. Peanut-butter crackers or celery with peanutbutter and raisins for snack. One teacher would tap the corner of his desk when she noticed his focus slipping away. It would draw his attention back to the desk without calling him out as a "problem." (I loved this teacher and gave her the best (re:non-generic) gifts ever.) Lots of activity. To this day if DS1 looks to be having trouble settling down for hw, he's sent out to run a couple laps around the cul-de-sac or shoot 5 minutes of hoops.

I know this is long and I am by no means saying that your son is ADHD, but I just wanted to share our story.

Another vote here for keeping recess. In our district, it is against policy to take away recess -although I have still seen teachers do it. You may want to check on that. You have some very good advice here, whether your son happens to be gifted or not. Regardless of where he measures on any scale, he has tremendous value for his individual contributions and gifts. I believe fervently that if you focus on making school a happy place, the rest comes along. You cannot completely control what any teacher does in the classroom, but you don't have to add consequences at home for school behavior issues -that alone can minimize the negative feelings kids have about school sometimes.

ttodd here are some things that worked for my bright, restless kid in elementary:

1. I supplied and kept up a folder in his desk that was something he was intensely interested in at the moment. As long as his work was finished and done correctly he had the ok to get this folder out. Read, draw, work something out-space, construction, electricity, war-we went through it all.

2. He was allowed to report to the class on special projects he had done or was interested in. Projects on planets etc that had nothing to do with the curriculum in school but he got time in class to show off. Very good for keeping him busy in school with reading when the teacher noted to him that the next week he could present to the class.

3. When he started talking or annoying other kids (because he was bored) we would start a day sheet-I knew EXACTLY what had happened and in what class. No vague "He's disrupting". I would then punish if it broke our rules-very clear from the beginning-and set up reward if he didn't get in trouble for a certain number of days.

4. We role played EVERYTHING. Got a desk out, etc. What to do when you finish work, when someone distracts you-everything. He learned the correct way to respond to the teachers and classmates.

The best advice is learn your child. School is for one type of kid period. You have to beat the door down with some teachers and admin to modify so your kid can have the learning experience they need. It is hard work and some days I live at the school but my DS is now in 5th grade-principal's list and well adjusted in the class.

Best of love and luck.

The teacher who takes recess away from a boy deserves what she gets. What an idiot! He'd be better behaved if he got MORE exercise, not less.

Did you see this piece in the NYT about play first, then lunch?

Here is a link that might be useful: Play Then Eat

That article is correct, by my strictly anecdotal observations as a former grade school secretary/lunch lady in the late 1980s-early 90s. We had to have two lunch periods because of space limitations. The kids who had been outside playing before lunch always ate more, according to the garbage cans!

Exercise is a good thing.

A couple of things I want to comment on here:

First of all, what a wonderful, generous community of women we are - moms and teachers who are all anxious to share experience, make suggestions and offer support! Bravo for us - we are the village raising all our children.

Second - there are some words of wisdom here that should be framed. This is just a sampling......

The teacher who takes recess away from a boy deserves what she gets.

Things that have worked for focus. A good breakfast with at least 20grams of protein.

Children learn by playing. They will have the rest of their lives to sit quietly working.

School is for one type of kid period. You have to beat the door down with some teachers and admin to modify so your kid can have the learning experience THEY (my caps) need.

Sounds very gifted to me. My DS is very much the same way and wound up qualifying for the gifted program in 1st grade, which is rare in our system. Mine is not much of a reader, but scores off the charts in quantitative ability--it boggles the mind the stuff that kid can comprehend about numbers.

He also has ADD. He was constantly on his 1st grade teacher's $*it list. She took away recess for him several times before I found out about that. She was inconsistent and disorganized. Needless to say, DS did not perform well for her! (She really was CRAZY, and now at another school--too bad for those kids).

I was just curious about the teacher's level of experience and expertise. What is her reputation with the parents in your area? This would mean a lot with regards to her statements about your son. Sometimes an experienced teacher can see potential problems that a parent will miss. Legally, they cannot tell you that they think you need to have your kid evaluated for ADD either. They can only tell you "what they observe."

Now, I'm not saying your DS has ADD/ADHD. But, some of the things that the teacher is telling you she sees ARE symptoms of the condition. Since my DS does not have the hyperactivity component the diagnosis was harder. All I can say is that the Concerta he now takes makes him a completely different student. (NOT child, but STUDENT!) My DS is now in 4th grade and doing well--TG! His teacher is great and he LIKES school again.

I agree with the other suggestions about making sure he eats a high-protein breakfast and snack. Our doc also suggested fish oil supplements, but that's hard since they are HUGE and hard to swallow. We limit TV and video games, and have also started him in Karate--it's great.

Oh, I also wanted to say that I think parental punishment for misbehavior at school is entirely appropriate. If either of my kids is unruly or uncooperative at school(includes failing to do HW), there WILL definitely be a consequence at home. How else will they understand that I expect from them with regards to school? I would just not feel like I'm doing my part as a parent if I stayed out of it.

I would just not feel like I'm doing my part as a parent if I stayed out of it.

Nobody suggests you stay out of it, tomorrowisanotherday. Far from it. Punishing a child twice for an offense is the issue. Talk about the problem, try to resolve the issue, but IMO more punishment is just making you feel like you're "doing your part as a parent" without actually being a better parent.

You would probably be outraged if a bank charged twice for an overdraft, or a judge doubled your fine or punishment for a traffic ticket, or your boss made you work overtime for free as punishment if you goofed up an assignment. It used to be that if a waitress broke a glass or a customer walked out without paying the bill, the waitress had to pay. That's illegal now.

Our doc also suggested fish oil supplements, but that's hard since they are HUGE and hard to swallow.
I have seen chewable omega 3 supplements for kids, or you can get a flavored oil that you can add to orange juice, etc. FattyAcidTrip.com has lots of good information about the benefits of fish oil. They also have a mini size capsule that's supposed to be good for kids.

Sorry I have not read all the posts so forgive me if I duplicate.
My ds is 9 in 3rd grade, another late birthday. He has always been at the top of his class and loves school. He loves to read. He gets off track easily. When they come back from recess all the kids know to get out the item they need. He has to be reminded. But his teachers are so supportive of him. But it has not always been this way.
He started K being the last to finish lunch and spent many lunch recesses sitting outside finishing. He was always the first to raise his hand and had a hard time waiting to be called on. The other kids would sit back and let him give all the answers. But I was fortunate enough in first grade to have a friend teach him. She said he is just fine. He needs help staying on task but is nowhere near needing "help". Second grade teacher really worked on keeping him on task. We didnt care about the behavior daily charts. It did not work. He would never stay perfect so we never made it an issue. As long as he was not a problem in class we just focused on his learning to concentrate. Now in third grade he has really improved. He waits to be called on, but still needs reminders to stay on task. He takes 10min to pick out a book so I told the teacher to give him 15seconds or they will choose. He now knows he has a choice and is doing much better. Again, teachers think he will just slowly outgrow this. One thing that really helped was something in K. The teacher made a special desk. He was told that if he had a hard time staying on task he would have to use that desk to have less distraction. Eventually he began to recognize when he was distracted and would ask to use the desk. The teacher found this to be a great tool rather than a punishment.

My ds is always slow in the morning. We set up a chart of the order to do things and he has to follow it. If he is all ready to go with bookbag and coat ready at the door, he can play with the cat. If he does not follow the chart and we are rushing out the door he does not get freetime when he gets home from school. He is learning that he is responsible for his behavior and he can choose to follow it and have fun or not follow it and have no fun.

I wonder if punishing your son at this age is productive. He really isn't being naughty, he is a little boy who needs help focusing. Teaching him how to manage his situation, learning control over what he can do will give him lots of confidence and he may surprise everyone in a few years.

Good luck.

I've also not ready every post, but wanted to share my experience. My ds is 8 (9 in March) and in the 3rd grade. His K teacher (a friend of ours) told us after he'd left his class, that she suspected he had ADHD, but was "afraid" to tell us? (Hello!!). The first and second grade teachers did well with him in class (and his grades were good), but the minute a substitute was there or the kids left the class (like for lunch), his behavior went crazy. He was getting in trouble almost every day. And like others said, recess was taken away (which he needed desperately).

This past summer, we took him to a psychologist and after only about 3 visits, classic (according to her) ADHD behavior was very obvious. My dh was very against medications at the time, but after talking with our primary physician (who had 2 of his 3 daughters on meds), he prescribed Adderall XP on a trial basis. It has been a night and day difference in his behavior. He's always been good at math and science, but it was like pulling teeth to get our ds to read a book. The first day on the medication, he voluntary pulled out his reading book (to re-read for a test) and sat there and read the entire story to me! We were in shock. He's now checking out books from the library and bring them home and reading :-) The best part, he's not had but 1 bad mark on his behavior chart all this school year :-) And as a bonus, he's a much nicer person (behavior at home) to be around. It has helped my stress level as well.

I'm not recommending medication, but it's definitely something to consider if other means aren't effective.

Great link, Terriks! Thanks!

Sherrmann--I can see your point, to an extent. But I still have no problem removing privileges if my kids are making really poor choices at school. For example, if DS comes home with a check or two on his weekly sheet then no problem. But if he gets a couple of checks EVERY WEEK, then you can be darn sure there is no Club Penguin or Wii-time until the next week's report is clear. Having worked in a school, you surely know that the teacher's options are somewhat limited as far as consequences that really motivate, IYKWIM. I can't ignore a school problems by throwing up my hands and saying "let them deal with it--it's not my problem."

You said:
"You would probably be outraged if a bank charged twice for an overdraft, or a judge doubled your fine or punishment for a traffic ticket, or your boss made you work overtime for free as punishment if you goofed up an assignment."

Baloney! This is EXACTLY what happens IRL. My bank will run an NSF check through DAILY, and the charges continue to accumulate until I fix the problem. Not to mention the $30 that the store will charge me for writing a returned check.

Is it fair that my insurance rates go up if I have a traffic ticket? Ummmm....yea. That is what happens. I pay the fine but then pay more insurance too. Go figure.

Boss wants me to stay overtime w/o pay? Unless I am an hourly/union worker, this is exactly the way it works. ESPECIALLY if I goof up. Or perhaps getting fired is more likely. IDK.

That said, the only time I don't back the teacher is when I really think she/he is way off-base with the charges. AS I said before, DS's 1st Grade teacher was certifiable. I RARELY gave him consequences when it seemed to me that the "problems" were all in her nutty little head. (I called the principal instead, actually.)

ttodd, sorry to derail your thread here! I hope things will even out with your DS and that the sticker book is effective. What do you know about the gifted-evaluation process at your school? Do they have to wait until 1st grade when there are standardized scores? He really sounds gifted to me.

Since having a kid diagnosed with ADD, I've learned a great deal about the condition. Hyper focusing CAN be a symptom. Again, not trying to diagnose over the ether, just saying it so you can read up on it. Information is king!

Here is a link that might be useful: hyper focusing and ADHD