Hi everyone, I am sure there are other CHC users who will comment. Beg your pardon for my long-windedness...and I want to get a shot out to cool dude Al :) I don't personally have any concern about toxic residues in CHCs; of course in countries with different or no regulations on chemical use I do sort of wonder, but I somehow don't think that coconuts are a crop ridden with pests and thus end up significant pesticide exposure. Heck are they even a crop? (I thought they just fell into the ocean and were scooped up lol)...If anything they might have a bit of bacterial load if they were floating in nasty contaminated seawater but prolly nothing your plants could transmit to you...no worse than what we prolly already use in our containers and gardens, lol. Plus, I seem to think reptiles are sensitive to stuff like that and thus prolly wouldn't do well if their bedding was a mess of DDT or something else equally yummy :) Any reptile people out there? (lemonsforchams I think...?) I have to be perfectly honest in saying that I do not care for CHCs. I tried chcs because I want something that can take a rainy winter outside and something that I will not have to reaplace in a season or two. I have read of many people on these forums that just love them , but I have had poor luck with them. I have tried chips from different distributors; and I soak/rinse them to death; I've done what I can for a cation/salt exchange; I've tried pure chcs and chcs mixed with peat; I remove most to all of the original rootball soil; the result is the same--too wet. I know, it's weird, they seem like they would aerate well and they just don't. Now, I haven't tried the *recommended* brand from St.Louis, and I haven't done the exact recommended chemical wash (where you get that stuff is still a mystery to me), but I somehow don't think that is the key. I can go for at least a whole month without watering and I live in a dry (and often windy) climate! That's got nothing to do with proper prep, I'd bet. I've tried at least 7-10 plants in it--mostly citrus and amaryllis and they universally do poorly save for one--and that one I have NOT had to water in the last 3 weeks (!) and somehow it is ok, not counting on it to do well in the long term. The plants that are long-termers like the citrus just sort of sit there (no response to fertilizers) and slowly decline over a few months--have lost one, another 2 looking like they're gonna die and so I moved them out recently, a few others that may be circling the drain. I don't care for the coir/ground husk fiber for the same reason--stuff just rots so quickly in it. I am thinking of trying the chcs on plants that don't care if they sit in a moist wet environment--maybe guava or calla lilies. Not sure yet. As a result I am experimenting with a mostly inorganic/largely inorganic medium. (Al's been right all along :) However, I am going to try a mixture of Turface and CHC's--I actually need something that has better water retention and so these may do the trick. I bought a little Meyer lemon that is gonna be my guinea pig, poor thing. It seems that everyone has their favorite mix and I think it has a lot to do with exactly what your goals are and also I am beginning to feel that climate will play a role in it too--not just moisture regulation but also speed of decomposition of your soils and thus lack of aeration/too much water retention and subsequent rot...and then another addition to the compost pile :( Just my experiences. Am not prepared for any sort of backlash from chc lovers :) Oh yeah be sure to soak and rinse at least a few times--they're supposedly loaded with sea salt and that needs to come off. And when it comes to pricing--not too bad at a local garden center where I can get it "over-the-counter" for--I believe--1 cubic foot or so for maybe 14 bucks. I also bought from a direct importer in southern CA for about 18 bucks for a huge bale (I travel to L.A. quite often)--I think 3 cubic feet, compressed, but it sure seems like more than that once hydrated and deompressed; I think it is 20 lbs dry? Can't recall for sure. And I think this place has reasonable shipping prices, can't really remember now, email me if you want their contact info; they're an orchid supply importer. HTH. Shuttin up before someone lobs a coconut at my head.

While this thread was pointlessly bumped, I wanted to thank Dean for sharing that study. I have 2 A. pindrow and they've been just fine here. Also showing enough root rot resistance _for northeastern Maryland_ (elsewhere, YMMV) A. recurvata A. alba (there's a huge one at Longwood Gardens, and a big one at National Arboretum) A. nordmanniana Failures: any western US fir on its own roots - I've tried several of them; although my house came with a Concolor fir that was 40-50' tall, it was in slow decline the whole time and died after one of the mega-wet spells we had in the early 2010s. If you had to chose one as slightly tolerant for the eastern US, it would be that one. And they are common landscaping material up north like the NYC and Boston suburbs. Abies delavayi on its own roots Btw to 'Cliff' ungrafted Noble Fir, Abies procera, is 100% no go for anywhere in the southern US other than the highest mountain towns like Boone, NC. Will probably die the first year of root rot, as did mine.

Ok Everyone here is an update on my SFT. I got my 1st fruit on the 13th of July which was 62 days after putting it in the container. To date I've gotten 17 fruit that range in weight from 3oz. to 8oz. I still have approx. 20 fruit on the vine but no blossoms. I find the fruit very tasty and juicy. I'm posting 2 pics. The 1st shows my SFT approx. 24+" in height. The second pic is very interesting because it shows a silvery residue on the stems. This is the only place where I saw this. So the Silvery Fir Tree gets its name from the silvery residue it produces! BTW I love this variety. I have 17 other varieties that I grew from seed.

Josh, I want to say that I have made a rather puzzling and somewhat intriguing discovery. Last year I bought two abies procera four-year transplanted bare-root stock trees from Porky Farms in northern Michigan. That is what I ordered, anyways. One did really well last summer while the other was rather weak. I chalked that up to transplant shock. Now they both look really good and the weaker of the two looks a lot better and I think it’s gonna make it. But here’s the surprise. The leaves or needles on the two specimens do not look the same. The leaves on the more vigorous of the two look exactly like the needles on two other abies procera that I’d gotten from Joe Welker’s nursery the prior year. But the needles on the other Porky Farms tree look different. They are more curled upwards. Hmmmn, I thought to myself; that brings back memories of fir trees that I’d seen in the Sierra Nevada Mountains years ago. Could this one tree possibly be an abies magnifica sent in error? I have discovered through my own personal experience that nurseries can and do make mistakes at times. At the time that I placed my order, Porky Farms was showing that they no longer had any abies magnifica left in stock. But maybe they did have one – just one – after all! We’ll see. In another growing season or two any differences will become more obvious. I have had some correspondence with that guy Bert Cregg who participated in the study on growing exotic conifers in the Midwest that I’d cited in my earlier post. He told me that both abies procera and abies grandis can do well in western Michigan where they get planted not far from the shores of Lake Michigan. That’s “snow belt” country. Conditions can sometimes mimic the orographic snowfall in the Sierras. This would help support your snowpack theory. We did not discuss abies magnifica but I would assume it might be the same situation. There is actually somewhat of a fine line between abies procera and a. magnifica. Glad to hear that your two red firs made it through the winter! That’s no small feat ‘cause I’ve had very bad luck planting anything in the fall be it western conifers, eastern shade trees or fruit trees. I like late March/early April the best. Here’s something that you might wanna try that I’ve tried with some success. I took a 4’ X 4’ sheet of OSB board and staked it to the windward side of the trees. That at least will keep the wind off if it gets down to -20°F. Cregg told me that the wind is definitely a factor, too. And to this I added a thick mulch layer of dead pine and fir needles. My theory and hope is that if that’s done for a few years until the tree becomes established with deep roots, it might be able to make it on its own without the windbreak. There is no proof of this but I’m willing to try. It worked GREAT last winter, but, like you said, it was mild. Best Regards, Fred M. Cain, Topeka, IN