The folks at King Arthur Flour are wonderful!!

16 years ago

So here I am on the Martin Luther King holiday, and I decided to try another recipe from "Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day." I decided to do the Volkernbrot, and since I'm using a locally milled flour and it's much coarser than store bought, I had to fiddle considerably with the recipe, adding a lot more flour and then deciding I better add more wheat gluten, yeast, and salt as well. So I have a lot of ingredients in this recipe, and it's going to be bigger than the original.

Once I was done, I read the rest of the recipe, and uh oh, it requires a non-stick loaf pan. (And they're very clear that it MUST be a non stick pan or you'll never get it out of the pan.) I thought it was made without a pan. When I call up King Arthur Flour, they tell me that not only are they out of the 8 1/2x4 1/2 size, but that to get the slightly larger pan to me in time (I've got 7 days for this dough, and of course there's no mail today), it's going to cost an arm and a leg. While I dithered, the salesperson offered to put me through to a baking specialist.

After hearing the whole story, the baking specialist says that she's going to send the loaf pan to me on the two day rush, but not charge the extra for that, only the extra that promises 3-5 business days. She said "It's not your fault that today is the MLK holiday." So I'll have the pan Thursday, in plenty of time for the dough to still be good, and without breaking the bank.

Are these people wonderful or what!

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Comments (21)

gemini40
16 years ago
If you ever have the opportunity to go to their store in Vermont you should do it...What a fabulous place to visit.. and yes they are a great compnay, been around for years...I had a big anniversary loose leaf cookbook they published many years ago and cannot find it now..so sad about that..It was great.

June
lindac
16 years ago
Sorry....but I just don't believe that that particular bread will only work in THEIR special non stick pan!!
I'd line a regular pan with foil, and greasing the foil very well....and I'll just bet it will work fine!
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Oh, no! Bad sentence on my part. Southern California. We had a wonderful Syrian bakery that made brilliant pita. I still miss them. My heart breaks for what has happened there, but I've never been to Syria. You haven't said why you're eschewing "enriched flour" and don't need to, but white flour products are required by law to use vitamin enriched flour, and even most home baking white flour (bleached or unbleached) is enriched and has a little malted barley flour in it as well, which has a lot of an enzyme that's needed for rising. Unless you have a specific problem with one or more of the vitamins or the barley, the enrichment shouldn't be a problem. Maybe you're just concerned that there's white flour in there. White flour is often added to whole wheat flour to make the rise spongier. Sometimes vital wheat gluten is added to strengthen the gluten (the bran in the whole wheat can weaken or cut it). Wheat gluten can be isolated by hand by washing the wheat and kneading out the starch, and has been done for centuries, so it's not a weird industrial product. Anything that's made with white flour in the U.S. uses enriched flour. There may be some places that mill and sift their own flours that do not, but that's an extremely rare exception. Therefore, I would guarantee that the Lebanese pita are made with enriched flour. The thinner thing is probably a lack of leavening. Even in the Middle East, nowadays, the pita have leavening and are a bit spongy. That's not traditional. :) I haven't seen Kontos, and I'd guess it's an East Coast brand. I don't doubt that it's good! Whole Foods might be a better place to get 100% whole wheat, however, unless you can find a Middle Eastern or halal store where people are into the "new" kind of dietary laws (no white flour, pasture raise livestock, etc.). Maybe try stores near the colleges? College kids tend to be into better eating. Turlock is from California. I know they freeze to ship it to avoid preservatives, so you might find it there, but more likely the Whole Foods have something local. Good luck on your quest.
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Something caught my eye in the link cloudy christine provided -- about "strong" flour -- which might need a little more explanation. Strong vs weak wheat is an interesting study and information we don't generally get when it comes to a bag of flour. But we may have noticed it if we purchased an inexpensive bag of flour somewhere along the line and it didn't perform as well as good old ___________ (fill in the blank) flour. When I teach bread classes I advise people NOT to purchase off-brands of flour from discount places like the Dollar General Store, Aldi, etc., because it can be an inferior flour product that can lack enough gluten for making good bread - or a weak flour in other words. Professional bakers use the terms strong and weak to indicate a wheat or flour's "baking strength", or whether it's suitable for specific baked goods. Hard and soft wheats are terms primarily of interest to the fine folks who mill the flour and it describes the texture of the endosperm and how it breaks down in milling - but we also attribute these names to the protein/gluten levels. If I forget whether I have soft wheat or hard wheat milled into flour, all I have to do is take a pinch of the flour and rub it between my fingers. Soft wheat is just that, soft, like a fine silky powder, while hard wheat is grittier. Soft wheat kernels are usually plumper and have a larger endosperm - and appear more transparant than hard wheat. The commercial uses for flour from soft wheat is often used for crackers, cookies, cakes, doughnuts, pancakes, waffles, muffins, soft noodles, ice cream cones, flaked breakfast cereals, granola, soup thickeners, gravy thickeners and wheat germ (according to one source). Strong wheats are generally in the hard wheat variety, small and wrinkled in appearance with a small endosperm, and the dominate protein in the gluten group are glutenins - so they are best used for yeast breads. Weak wheats have a deficiency of glutenins - but can also be milled from hard wheat varieties. So it's not just the amount of protein, but the type of protein in the flour. Weak flours can be milled from hard wheat varieties, and this happens around here to the wheat crop when we have too much rain during the growing season. This is why you don't see wheat being irrigated like you do corn. Too much moisture is a bad thing for producing high-gluten, high-protein wheat that makes great bread. To add to the confusion, there is also durum wheat - which has the highest amount of protein of all wheat varieties, but the dominant protein in the gluten group are gliadins - which is what you want for making pasta, and generally what durum wheat is used for. You can find a mix of strong and weak wheat in most fields. If there is an area shaded by trees, or a low-lying area where water tends to pool, the protein in the wheat in those areas will tend to be "weak" (lacking quality gluten levels) due to the growing conditions. FYI - White (bleached and unbleached) bread flour is milled from medium-strength wheats. Too much gluten in flour will make your bread tough and it takes a LOT longer to knead and develop the gluten. That's why adding a lot of vital wheat gluten to recipes isn't a good thing - unless you like rubbery bread. Another interesting point, all wheat used for making flour were soft wheat varieties until the mid- to late-1800's with the advent of hard wheat varieties. Especially Turkey Red Wheat, which became the source of many new varieties of hard wheat we grow today. Turkey Red was hand-picked and carried to Kansas in 1874 by Mennonites from Crimea, Russia. Turkey Red wheat once covered over 90 percent of wheat acreage in the Great Plains - now it's considered an heirloom wheat variety and I've only seen it entered at the Kansas State Fair as an heirloom variety. It's still available, if you know who to ask, but you probably won't like the bitter-tasting flour it produces due to the dark bran color. It has three genes that determine bran color, while most of today's varieties of red wheat only have 1 or 2 genes for bran color. Contrast that to white wheat that is the "albino" of wheat, which has none of the genes that determine bran color. -Grainlady
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loves2cook4six
16 years ago
I've used the non-stick foil and i has worked fantastically so I agree with Lindac
sheesh
16 years ago
Yes, foil or parchment paper will work just fine.

My dil loves King Arthur for their excellent customer service. I think they are waaay too expensive!

Sherry
arley_gw
16 years ago
Any of you chocoholics out there should try some of this stuff from King Arthur.

Yes, it's a splurge. But if you like dark chocolate, this is absolutely addictive.

Here is a link that might be useful: merckens chocolate
cloudy_christine
16 years ago
That nonstick foil -- Reynolds Release -- is great. I use it for quick breads in loaf pans, and for cookies.
beanthere_dunthat
16 years ago
They do have excellent customer service (I can't say the same for their baker's hotline where the standard answer seems to be "Well, you just have to play around with it and see what works best". Wow. Like I didn't already know that?) You pay for it, though. We used to carry some of the same items in the store, and I was aghast at how much they marked up their merchandise. I was obviously looking to make a profit myself, but they really push the envelope, espeicially on those Polish pottery pieces and scales.

Still, it's worth doing business with them because they absolutely stand behind their products. (And I don't know anywhere else to get their dough whisk, which is probably the best $15 I ever spent on ktichen tools.)
Carol Schmertzler Siegel
16 years ago
Renee, I love that dough whisk, excelelnt for batter and quick breads fro me, but it's highest priced at King Arthur, plus I find their shipping is very high. You can get the whisk elsewhere, but I can't attest to the quality, mine is also from King Arthur! They all look the same to me. and I agree their Polish pottery is high as well! but when you need something you can't get elsewhere, it's a great place. I look forward to the catalogs!

whisk from Breadtopia

from Fantes

from Amazon

from King Arthur, highest price
laceyvail 6A, WV
Original Author
16 years ago
"I just don't believe that that particular bread will only work in THEIR special non stick pan!! "

Hmmm. Nobody was touting THEIR particular pan. The artisan bread cookbook said their breads require non-stick pans (they don't sell any cookware)and the baking specialist at KA thought at first that any loaf pan would do until I read her the section from the cookbook.
gemini40
16 years ago
As stated previously you get what you pay for...have you seen what QVC charges for Polish Stoneware? Very expensive line of pottery, it is absolutely gorgeous however.
arabellamiller
16 years ago
I am loving that dough whisk! I go through whisks like a madwoman... that one is next on my list.

AM

PS Can't wait to hear how the bread turns out.
annie1992
16 years ago
Oh great, something else I need, a dough whisk. I never even knew about such a thing!

I like King Arthur's flour and buy it locally, but I've never ordered from them on-line. I like many of their recipes but disagree with some of their statements, like the one that you cannot knead bread dough by hand if it's made with bread flour. I've done it for 20 years and never knew it wouldn't work until they told me, LOL.

I'd love to visit their Vermont store, though, just because, plus it's an American business and I like that a lot. I see the Fantes whisk is made in Poland, but King Arthur doesn't say where their's is made. I'd pay a bit extra if it was made here.

As for the non-stick bread pan, I'd probably have blundered ahead using parchment paper or some other device and totally ignored the directions, LOL. No one to blame except myself when those things go wrong. (grin)

I'm not careful enough with non-stick bakeware, I cut it or nick it or scratch it and ruin the finish, so I've been sticking with plain old pans and avoiding the non-stick. It'd be interesting to see if I could make that work...

Annie
foodonastump
16 years ago
Am I the only one who finds the volume of emails from KA borderline obnoxious? This month alone I've already got seven from them, which means they're averaging three a week. Of course I could unsubscribe, but then I wouldn't know when they have free shipping and as stated above, their shipping is very expensive.

If "you get what you pay for" means I'm paying for a lot of emails then yeah, I'm getting it alright!
sheshebop
16 years ago
I have been to the store and love it. I buy quite a bit from KA online as well. They do have awesome customer service. Dough whish? Dough whisk? What am I missing???
beanthere_dunthat
16 years ago
Sheshebop, it's a whisk that makes it darn near impossible to overmix quickbreads.

Carol, I've never seen that Breadtopia site. Dangerous!
Luckily, I got my whisk when MIL ordered a bunch of stuff and I piggybacked on her order. Since everything she ordered for herself. was heavy, she told me not to worry about paying her for the shipping.

We had the catalogue for that Polish wear, but I didn't carry it because i didn't think it would sell where we were. KA'a markup was about 350% on it. I found that obscene. They make darn fine flour though.

FOAS, I have the same gripe about Lands End and Sierra Trading. Way too many emails.
magothyrivergirl
16 years ago
laceyvail~ it is wonderful to hear about such great customer from a company. Many people are so quick to talk bad about a company, it is refreshing to hear how good you were treated. Thanks for sharing and I hope your bread turns out.
Carol Schmertzler Siegel
16 years ago
Smart woman on the shipping, Renee :)
WOW, that is some markup! Places like TJ Maxx, Homegoods and Marshall's carry the Polish Pottery for a lot less! but some things like ingredients, and some tools I wouldn't mind if I had to get through KA!
laceyvail 6A, WV
Original Author
16 years ago
I'm hoping to get the pan by Friday and will post how the bread turned out. Remember, I fiddled considerably with the recipe, so any problems will undoubtedly be mine.
User
16 years ago
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the dough whisk! I ordered my first one from Breadtopia --really nice folks. Since then, I've ordered some from Fantes and they shipped out the next day. I'm having a bread-making party/class this weekend and going to use them as gifts.
johannafin
16 years ago
For those complaining about emails from companies, I've found that you can regulate the frequency of emails. Usually at the bottom of the email is a link to either unsubscribe or manage emails. On Land's End I was able to change from daily emails to weekly. Hope that helps.
annie1992
16 years ago
Great, Tamara, thanks a lot. (grin) You know I'm going to have to break down and buy one this week. You know that. Don't you?

Annie

The folks at King Arthur Flour are wonderful!!

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The folks at King Arthur Flour are wonderful!!

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