Odd size pans and induction

11 years ago

I was pretty much settled on gas but am now reading up on induction because, even though aesthetically I prefer the looks of a range, getting an induction cooktop might solve most of my problems for me. So, last night I got the magnet out and discovered nearly all of my cookware won't work on induction. I'd be okay with buying new, but I wonder about the availability of induction-ready pans in unusual sizes and configurations.

As some examples, I have a crepe pan with very low sides I use a lot (not for crepes, other things). I have another low-sided pan that is perhaps 10" to 12" square. I have an oval skillet that spans two burners. And, of course, I have a griddle. I also have a large and heavy enameled cast-iron dutch oven that has a very low lip around the bottom edges. Would this work with induction? How does one make gravy with the drippings from a large traditional speckled enamel roasting pan on induction?

I can easily find new cookware in the standard sizes and configurations. It is these oddball pieces I depend on that I wonder about being able to find. I've gotten used to some of these shapes and find them to be perfect for what I do.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (8)

jadeite
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
needinfo - the fastest way to find out what cookware is available is to do a search on "induction ready cookware" or "induction ready crepe pan". You'll find a host of pans that work on induction. I don't know if you can get exact matches to what you have, but you'll find out what there is so you can decide if you can live with it.

I have cast iron with a thin ridge on the bottom. My guess is that it raises the bottom of the pan about 1/8" from the surface. The pots works perfectly with our induction cooktop. We also have a cast iron griddle that we use across two hobs. The bottom is ridged, so not ideal for induction but it works. A perfectly flat surface works best, but induction is so fast that we can live with the loss of efficiency.

You can make gravy on induction if the pan is ferromagnetic. I've done it, although my best roasters aren't magnetic. I have one big roasting pan which will work on induction, so I use that if I want to deglaze over direct heat. Otherwise I scrape juices from the non-magnetic pans into a saucepan which can be used on the cooktop.

Hope that helps.

Cheryl
jwvideo
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You can find all manner of odd size pans in induction suitable construction but finding specific replacements may take research and may be expensive. Here's some info that I gathered in my recent stove-buying expedition that may help you along with your research.

Induction suitable crepe pans are made by the likes of DeBuyer and maybe even Lodge. I saw recently that Lodge has now started selling some low sided carbon steel frying pans so they might have a crepe pan. French carbon steel crepe pans, IIRC, used to come with a beeswax coating but may still require seasoning. In the meantime, depending on what you cook in the crepe pan, and how hot you need it to get, you might be able to continue using your present crepe pan by getting an induction interface disk. Max Burton makes one that has been discussed here and was recently reviewed at Cooks Illustrated and can be had from numbers of stores including Chef's Catalog and Amazon. According to CI, the disk will work reasonably well for making things like pancackes where it will function rather like a pan on radiant-smoothtop electric stove. For the same reason, it seems to be less suitable for high heat applications. Here's a link to the CI write-up on the disk:

http://www.cooksillustrated.com/equipment/overview.asp?docid=36350

Spanning burners with large oval dutch ovens and rectangular griddles is sometimes feasible and sometimes not. I'm not familiar with cooktops, but I do know that the GE induction ranges (freestanding (PHB925 and PHB915, slide-in PHS925) have twin 8-inch burners on the left which GE told me can be spanned (and for which the equal sizing makes heat management pretty easy). Samsung's NE599NOPBSR and NE597NOPBSR freestanding induction ranges have twin rectangular burners which are specifically designed to be be linked for such purposes (Samsung calls this a "flex zone"). The other Samsung induction ranges and the Maytag, Kitchenaid, Whirlpool and Frigidaire induction ranges are not set-up in a way that permits spanning and I believe the manuals for some of them expressly forbid spanning/bridging.

With regard to cooktops, many of them have burner arrangements where it is not physically feasible to span burners with griddles or large dutch ovens. Several also forbid spanning. I have read that LG makes a cooktop that is designed with bridgeable elements and comes with its own griddle. And, of course, there are the newly available (new for the US, anyway) "zoneless" induction cooktops where bridging is not an issue because the cooktop sinply heats around whatever pan shape and size is place on it. I think there have been a couple of threads on them, or at least the one by Thermador. A search should turn them up.

The speckled "Graniteware" roasting pans that I've owned have been magnetic steel and will work on an induction burner. But, they are thin which means you have to be very watchful with heat management. Of course you must be watchful with such thin-steel pans on any other kind of stove, as well, but induction hobs bring the pans to heat so quickly that they can require additional vigilence.

This post was edited by JWVideo on Tue, Dec 18, 12 at 12:30
Related Discussions
Induction Pan Sizes: How Critical??
Q
Comments (38)
I have an entirely different reaction. I do not see why GE's response should be surprising. The manual for the induction ranges clearly says that minimum pan size for the six-inch burner is 4.75" and the minimum pan size for the two 8 inch burners is 5.75." If they put that in the manual, why should a customer service rep say something different in what will be a public posting on their web-site? And look at it from the perspective of the GE customer service reps. My4thGarden is looking at spending $2900 for a GE Profile slide-in induction range or $2600 for the freestanding one. A decent and serviceable smoothop electric range can be had for half of that from GE or, for that matter, from LG which is the subject of My4thGarden's other thread. No issues with using small pans on those stoves, although there certainly will be waste heat around the edges of the small pans. When someone says that they cannot afford to replace the present battery of small diameter cookware and doesn't want to, it makes a lot of sense to say to them: "why don't you consider a different stove that seems better suited to what and how you like to cook?" Plus, you may buy the induction stove and find that your particular small pans don't work. That leads to hassles with returns and refunds. If you work for a company, would you want to start that process? Now, it may very well be possible to use pans with slightly smaller diameters if they have enough ferrous mass in the base. Induction burners have sensors to identify pan size and ferrous mass -- too little of either and the burner will not activate. Trouble is, there is no way to find out how GE engineers programmed the sensors. All we know is that GE engineers have identified minimum pan sizes that can reasonably be expected to work. GE customer services reps are is not going to tell you, "don't pay any attention to the manual, you can do X____ instead." berner43's post shows that pans with diameters 10% less than minimum specified diameters work, at least on the mid and large burners and assuming that My4thGarden's pans have similar ferrous bases. Timdeb's post shows about the same for the 6-inch burner. If that relationship holds for the smallest diameter burner, as well, then even My4thGarden's 4.25" pans might work on the GE's smallest (6") burner. Or might not. Again, we do not know how GE programmed the sensors for the burner. Maybe the bases of My4thGarden's smallest pans won't have sufficient ferrous material in the base to be recognized. Also , bear in mind that a smaller pan is using smaller amounts of energy. If you cover, say, 70% of the burner, you will be only getting 70% of the power. (That is not exact but it will do for this dicussion.) Depending on what you are cooking in those little pans, that may or may no be considered optimum. If I'm manufacturing and selling stoves, and I'm training customer representatives, m I going to have them telling customers that they should use my stove for less than optimum conditions and then want to deal with warranty complaints from customers who may or may not understand what "less than optimum" means? What if the customer is using pans with "less than optimum" ferrous content and the pans don't work? Do I really want to have my engineers testing every possible line of cookware and then publish advice on less than optimum use? If I have to manage that kind of situation, I will be thinking I don't want that expense or headache. The unfortunate reality is that the only way to know is to run a test with the particular pans on an actual GE induction stove as berner43 and timdeb did. Can't find a GE to test your pans on? Then, it seems to me to make a good deal of sense for GE to recommend options other than induction for My4thGarden. "Buying and trying" is an option, of course, but only if you can buy from a vendor like Costco which has an absolute satisfaction guarantee: "I don't like it" is enough for Costco to take it back after a month or so. No restocking fee, either. Those kinds of guarantees are hard to find these days. The only induction range that Costco sells is the Maytag freestanding range and it only carries them in the online sales department. The Maytag is far less costly than the GE (about $1500, delivered). It has twin 6" burners in front with a 9" and an 11" burner in the back. Maytag/Whirlpool has not published minimum recommended pan sizes but apparently have marked them on the cooktop. My recollection from the one I saw last fall when I was stove shopping was that the six inch burners would take pans down to at least 4.75" and the nine-inch burner would handle a 7" pan. (But that was months ago and the memory is faulty on such details.) Virtually every brand of induction on the market will operate pans slightly smaller than the minimum recommended diameter. (Heck, I recall a post from a year ago where somebody here reported using a 5.5" diamter pan on the 11" burner of a Samsung induction range.) Anyway, the Maytag/Whirlpool burner arrangement, with twin 6" burners in front, seems well suited to My4thGarden's cooking preferences. Of course, there is the apparently lame "Aqualift" oven self-cleaning method which may be an issue. (This issue will not matter if you are somebody who avoids running self-cleaning cycles and, if you do, at least you don't need to worry about the self cleaning cycle toasting the control boards.) I noticed a Maytag on display recently when helping a friend shop for a stove. Might have been our local Lowe's or Home Depot that had one on display and mIght have been the identical Whirlpool model. I live in a very rural state, so maybe one of the big box stores in My4thGarden's area might have one, too. Worth looking at. This post was edited by JWVideo on Thu, May 23, 13 at 16:06
...See More
Induction - pan size vs. surface size (& new Viking 36" Induction)
Q
Comments (7)
I do not have this unit and am not recalling seeing much about this 36" Viking model here in the last couple of years since this thread was active. You might have better luck attracting responses from current owners and users here if you started a thread of your own and put the model number in your thread title. As for using your large LC pans, I'm not sure I know what you are asking. Have you used induction before? If not, maybe you are not quite understanding how to ask the questions. Let me take a stab at what you might be asking. * Are you asking if the full size Viking induction cooktops like this one have the same problem recognizing LC pans that that the old Viking single-burner portable induction cooktop units (PICs) once had back in the previous decade? The answer to that is that the full size cooktops and the Viking induction ranges have never had that problem. The problem was limited to those old and long discontinued PIC models. * Or, are you asking if there will be a problem operating a burner with a pan larger than a particular induction hob space. Say, your LC pans have 12" diameter bases overtop the 9" square hob spaces of the Viking cooktop? The answer is that your LC pans will all work, but may intrude sufficiently into the adjoining hob spaces that the LC pans don't leave enough space for pans on the other three burners. For example, maybe you want to use a couple of 12" LC frypans --- one on the front right hob and another on the left front hob --- and then want to plant a large LC dutch oven on the middle hob in the back. So, how big are the pans you want to use at the same time on the other three burners? For that matter, how often do you figure you will be using all six burners at the same time and need to be running two or three 12" diameter (or larger) LC pans? Frankly, the best thing to do to find out how the cooktop will or will not work is to take your array of pans to a dealer and see if and how they all fit. If you can't find a showroom example, try using the dimensions shown on the installation instructions to draw a full scale layout with a sharpie or magic marker on a piece of newspaper. * Or, are you asking if a nine-inch square induction hob will evenly heat the entire base of a large LC pot or pan with, say, a 12" diameter (or larger) base. The answer is that you will have the same behavior with LC pans that you will have with any cast iron pan on any burner (gas, electric, or induction). IOW, no problem with braises, soups and stews, where you have liquid to even out the heat, but you will need lengthy pre-heating to get an even spread of heat across any cast-iron base when you want perfectly uniform heating as for searing or browning out to the edges of the base. This is a property of all cast iron, not just LC. If the VIking cooktop had some burners with larger diameter induction fields (large enough to encompass the entire base of your big LC pans) the cast iron would still heat unevenly. Preheating to evenness might take a bit less time with the larger burner, but it still will take quite a while. That's just the nature of cast iron cookware. FWIW, Cook's Illustrated has been recommending that you put cast iron pans in a hot oven for a half hour or longer to preheat CI skillets for stovetop searing like cooking steaks. Then you run the stovetop at lesser heat which is sufficient to maintian the searing temps for the cooking session. Again, the preheating and unevenness will be no big deal for tasks like braising, boiling water, deep fat frying, stocks, soups and stews with a lot of liquid. Probably not a problem, either, for making a very long simmered tomatoey ragu or long-cooking of beans. But where you will need workarounds will be for stir fries or browning where you need every square inch of base surface to be perfectly evenly heated for the meat or bacon or veggies or whatever that you want to brown. Again, you would need the same workarounds with any stove where the burners are not sized for large pans, whether gas or regular electric burners as well as induction.
...See More
Induction Cooktops - Burner Size vs Pan Size
Q
Comments (25)
With conventional flat circular coil hobs, the heated zone is over the coil windings, and should be symmetrical about the coil center (it more or less has to be). The coil center should be aligned with the surface markings, but might not be and this can be checked by watching boiling water patterns. Correction requires cooktop disassembly and coil adjustment. Heating will be indirect above the very center of the coil due to fewer field lines there. The toroidal field above the coil will cause a ring shaped heating of the pan base extending from a bit away from the center to the edge of the coil, which may extend to the pan base edge, but might be smaller than the pan. If larger, then edge heating might reveal some added heating there as the farther radial field lines have to intersect the inductive material at the edge of the pan. Detection of the heating pattern somewhat depends on the pan base construction. Thin 400 series stainless steel without copper or aluminum layers will most easily reveal the field pattern; heavy layers will spread the heat and make the field structure difficult to deduce.
...See More
Induction and pan size
Q
Comments (12)
The induction coil under the glass is typically spiral wound, and the field lines from this coil in air will be toroidal (donut) shaped, with the plane of the coil lying in the plane of the middle of the toroid. When an inductive material is brought to the coil, the field lines distort trying to enter the material, and so when a suitable pan is set on the coil, the lines all enter and exit the material over the coil. Pan bottom area that is inside the inner radius of the coil is not directly heated, nor is that part of the pan outside the outer radius of the coil. Heating of these areas depends on transverse thermal conduction by the pan base or the contents of the pan, not electromagnetic effects. If one has a layered pan with inductive stainless steel at the bottom, and a sandwiched copper layer in the center of adequate thickness, then heat will spread outward and inward. Aluminum will also provide this effect, but not quite as well. Silver, sapphire, and diamond would also work, but are less suitable for various, possibly obvious, reasons. The "1-inch over rule" only functionally applies when there are sensitive electronics under the glass in some area and having a hot pan overlap that area is a risk due to heat flow from the pan to the glass and thence the electronics. This can be partially ameliorated by using silicone or other pads under the pan to reduce heat feedback to the glass. Cast iron has good inductive heating, but less than ideal thermal conduction, so such pans need to be treated as having a delay time to even heating. They also benefit if made deliberately thick so that when a steak is thrown on for searing, the heat removed from the iron is a small fraction of that available so the temperature doesn't drop too far. 400 series stainless steel (inductive) can function as a thin base for pots when the object is heating liquids which quickly spread their input heat through the liquid. Care must be taken with certain liquids such as soups and milk that the convection spreading not be too low allowing the heating at the bottom to burn the liquid. So, a 14-inch pan over a 6-inch gas jet array vs. a 6-inch coil will have similar thermal pan heating patterns, except that the gas jet combustion products have to expand outwards providing a bit wider heating pattern than the induction coil. Nonetheless, you likely won't beat induction when trying to boil water because most induction hobs have a higher rate of heat transfer than counterpart gas burners. My induction cooktop's largest hob is 10 inches, leaving a 2-inch unheated radius around a 14-inch pan. If uniform heating rate were needed, I would have to ensure that I had a high quality pan base that could thermally equalize the entire 14 inches. Are there any 14-inch gas burners commonly available on high performance pro-style cooktops? 100k+ BTUh Asian cooking restaurant burners might have such a spread, although typically a wok has to be liftable and have a cool zone. I think you could live with a 10-inch hob, but I would plan on spacers and having a thick copper layer in the base. A few eggs dropped into the pan at different radii from the center might reveal from their frying rates any significant differences in effective heat flow over the base.
...See More
ginny20
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
In addition to the LG that JWVideo mentioned, there is also a Kitchenaid induction cooktop that has a "bridge burner" that links two burners. I have the Kitchenaid, and I've used the bridge burner to deglaze a roasting pan and also to cook with a SS fish poacher (the long oval kind you cook a whole fish in). I have been unable, however, to find a lightweight non-stick double burner griddle. I live in hope that someone will come out with one as induction becomes more common.

Induction is so wonderful that the lack of a pancake griddle (yet) bothers me not at all.
julieste
Original Author
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You are a wonderful source of help. Thanks. Now I can do some follow up.
Cavimum
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Also consider induction with burners that handle multiple size pans on the same burner. That's one thing I overlooked when choosing ours, where I only own one pot and one pan that fit the largest burner.

I have an ancient Farberware pot of unknown age (it was old when purchased for a vacation home at garage sale 20+ years ago) that works on our induction. It is a thin steel, so I am careful with it and how I use it.
julieste
Original Author
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Cavimum--so I think you are trying to tell me to make sure I would be able to use any size pan on the burners. Correct?
jadeite
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
needinfo - I think Cavimum may be referring to the multi-size hob on the Thermador cooktop (we both have this). The largest hob has 3 rings, so you can put 3 different sizes on it and draw 3 different power levels. It offers flexibility over a single hob which needs a minimum pot size.

In practice I have found that I can use various shapes and sizes on the cooktop. I have a number of oval pots, as well as couple of rectangular ones. As long as I cover most of the marked hob, it will heat. The only problem is if the pot is a lot smaller than the ring. In that case, the hob will not heat up.

Cheryl
Cavimum
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Yes, and yes to @needinfo and @jadeite. We have the 30" cooktop and the larger burners won't recognize a smaller pot.

The Thermador 36" cook top has 3 rings on the largest hob/burner, so it is a multi-size hob/burner. I didn't have room for a 36" cooktop with our remodel. The Bosch has "pot sense" even on their hob/burners, and I think (stress 'think',,, check the web site) 30" has pot sense as well as 36". It's a nice feature if you use a lot of pots at one time.

Odd size pans and induction

Comments (8)

jadeite

jwvideo

Related Discussions

ginny20

julieste
Original Author

Cavimum

julieste
Original Author

jadeite

Cavimum

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Odd size pans and induction

Comments (8)

jadeite

jwvideo

Related Discussions

ginny20

juliesteOriginal Author

Cavimum

juliesteOriginal Author

jadeite

Cavimum

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

julieste
Original Author

julieste
Original Author