I forgot to mention the Miele 27" warming drawer. I'm sure about that one :) It's nice and deep (almost 9"), has open sides, humidity control, continuous warm.

It's a struggle for everyone in the appliance selection boat. In the end you have to trust yourself based on all of the information available to you; there's plenty of it out there.

But, in order to choose one, will it really help you decide by knowing the PHYSICS of WHY there's no ice forming in a top freezer?

Thanks, Teedup, for the encouragement. My problem is I haven't been able to find enough information :( I was hoping that seeing them and talking to the clerks would help more. But, for instance, one clerk was telling me that the simmer on the Gaggenau with one valve but a dual burner was absolutely equal to the Wolf's simmer which has a separate valve. He showed me what the flame looks like on the Gagg. But he didn't have the Wolf hooked up so it becomes so much background blather.

Pluses and minuses: The Wolf has the two valves. American. Self contained. The Gaggenau doesn't have the knobs on the surface, better spread of the burners, hinged cover. Since I'm going to be using this mostly on low temperatures the simmer is the most important thing. I'm clueless.

The Diva 3 hob in the print brochure says it has 6" and 9" hobs. The same brochure online says it has 6" (1200W), 9" (3000W) and 11" (4000W), 9 power levels. Gagg one 5.875" (1400W boosts to 1800W) hob and one 8.25" (2200W boosts to 3300W) hob. Wok hob has 7" (1800W boost to 2500W) / 10.25" or 11", depending on who you believe (3600W), 12 output levels. If the online brochure (which does say "new") is correct they're fairly equivalent. The Diva comes in white (a plus!) and has touch controls. The Gaggenau is black only and has knobs on the cabinet face.

I'd love some input!

Hood recommendations? The salesclerks seemed to be selling rather than informing on this one.

But, yep :) On the physics. Sort of. It's important to me that the coolbox temperature remain even. The salesmen say it does. If they could explain the physics I'd have an easier time believing it.

OH! When I said "top freezer" I mean top of the line, not freezer on top of fridge!!! Sorry if I confused anyone! (I know I do that when I say "seams" in stone, as I was taught, when I mean veins, rather than joins. Sigh.)

It was easier for me to wrap my head around the "adaptive" technology they were claiming, which takes heed of it if you come home every day at five thirty and stand in front of the open freezer for five minutes trying to figure out what to make. The salesman said the unit would anticipate this and make it extra cool for an hour before you got there to keep the frozen foods frozen better when you let out all the cold air. I understand how that works with a clock, a thermometer and fuzzy logic.

Other questions: Is there any built-in or integrated, 36" fridge which has wide opening doors?

Is it really worth getting an indoor grill? Has anyone gotten good use out of the teppan yaki? Are they too hard to clean to be worth it?

Any suggestions for hoods?

Has anyone baked in the Gaggenau steam oven?

Any info on Monogram, Electrolux, and Kitchen Aid top end dishwashers?

Hmmmm, you are making this waaaaaaaaaay more complicated than it needs to be. How have you been getting along in a kitchen before dealing with these anticipated new appliances choices? All appliances do pretty much the same thing ......cook, bake, cool, freeze, suck air and wash. Your budget and desired looks for products are the main variables.

My dad (rest his soul) always wondered why they didn't just go from a Brownie B/W box camera straight to the digital camera in one move. Ya gotta walk before you can run. It's a crap shoot, trial and error. Same for everyone. By the time you decide on the latest and greatest, something new will have popped up with the "just gotta have it" feature. Our want for the latest and supposed greatest keeps the economy moving. LOL

I have a friend who wants golf lessons to become a better golfer but he's never taken any lessons yet (in 30 years!) because he's not sure there's a pro out there who may be able to work with his current golf swing. Ya gotta take a chance and trust someone!

Good hunting to you.

plllog,
I finished my kitchen last year and still have second thoughts on my appliance choices.
One choice that I love is the Gagg 27" combi steam oven.Now they have a 30" and I think they are coming out with a 30" convection oven. I would choose the Gagg conv oven today as I wanted a 30" oven and so chose the Dacor- don't love that so much.

I love my Thermador 18" all freezer Freedom tower with ice and water in the door. That item was announced late in my process. If I had my kitchen to do over, I would choose the Therm 24" all freezer Freedom tower with ice and water etc. and a 30" Therm Freedom refrig (instead of the 30" SZ ref/freezer.) Or maybe the french door Therm.
I have a gas cooktop, because DH was resistant to induction. I hate cleaning the gas cooktop! I still would not be sure what brand or model induction to choose. Maybe Thermador or GE Profile. If I had a free hand I would probably choose a 30" induction cooktop with a separate gas wok burner (Gagg) and the Teppan Yaki. In combination with the Gagg steam oven, I would have all cooking styles available.
The D/W is another mmmm? I have the Miele; it works great but sometimes doesn't dry so well. I don't like how it loads so much either. But it is very quiet and cleans very well. I thought you needed rinse-aid for all dishwashers.
So I guess my answer is as follows: Most of us here at GW discovered that appliance salespeople knew much less than we do and frequently gave out false info. Sometimes you have to take a leap as I did with the Gagg Combi Steam Oven and the Therm Freezer Tower (I ordered them both sight unseen.)Finally, go with your gut- if I had I would have induction instead of messing around cleaning my gas cooktop!

I have the top end KA diswasher in my kitchen and one step down KA from the top in the rental unit and we think very highly of them. The prices are great, they're SILENT and don't have issues like smell, which some of the higher end ones do have. They have a little disposal in them, (food grinder) which we abolutely had to have (not having it causes that smell) and again...they're silent. We also have KA trash compactors and love them as well.

I can't help with the other pieces. We do have a grill inside and never used it (thermador) (we like the big green egg outside...nothing can compete) and I'm a huge "real stove" lover, verses the fancy goodies you're seaking (they sound really fun, just not my cup of tea). I will say that finding the actual product to see is a pain. I was down to Molteni, La Corneu and Lacanche and finding real bodies to touch was hard. I flew to two different states to get to touch. I think it was worth it though frankly. I was very disapointed with the Molteni and La Corneu dealer, and that alone made me let those puppies go. I would give them a chance again if we lived where there was another dealer. The Lacanche dealer sold me (as well as the ranges...they had several to see verses just one).

We love our SubZero...but we'r also enjoying the similar style KA which we put in the rental. It's a carbon copy (just cheaper...and yes sub zero is a better product) of a 36" sub zero, so it looks great in the kitchen, without spending quite so much (just mentioning it if that ever is a concern).

Thanks for the great responses. I think part of my problem is that while I am a good book learner, I'm mostly a very tactile person and have to touch things to know if I want them.

TEEDUP1 -- Yeah, I know I'm fussing, but I'm unfortunately stuck with myself in this process. It's the same thing buying a car. I want to know how it looks, feels and works or I'm not happy, order to my specifications, and then drive 'em forever. But any of them will get you from here to there. And I use all the features they list in the back of the book so do want to check them all out. My budget will pretty much let me get what I want. I waited years until I felt like I could do that.

The way I've been accomplishing things for years is telling my mother that I'll make sit down dinner for the whole family (yep, the infamous 25 lb. turkey) but that it's at her house because the kitchen at mine is too impossible to cook in. And I've been doing a lot of cold lunches, pot lucks, and one hots. But I'm accustomed to cooking and entertaining with a 36" SubZero and a large Gaggenau convection oven, and haven't found anything I like better. I did look. So I'm really not just starting at the top without knowing what I'm doing. And I've been using a Mr. Induction as much as possible since I first read about induction here and am sold on that too. The reason for choosing Diva is the white and the three hob unit IF it actually has an 11". The Gaggenau is an alternative if the Diva doesn't do it, or if I decide to get the teppan yaki and Gagg gas and want them all to match (matching isn't big on my list). I read about the Gagg freezer online and thought it sounded good instead of just automatically choosing SubZero to match the fridge. So here I am :)

I'm usually looking for boil/sear or simmer on a cooktop--not much between--and I need a big hob for the stockpot, canning pot, etc. For the gas I don't really need fancy, though I do want a good simmer, since I'm likely to use induction more, but I want to find what's most useful to me. There also aren't all that many 2 burners; the only other ones at Universal are Kuppersbusch, DeLonghi and Miele, and I don't like them as well. A decider I just figured out could be cleaning. The Wolf has sealed burners with caps, with the dual valve simmer. Considering I'm going to be abusing it with drippy vegetables, that's a good thing! The smaller Gagg has sealed burners, but I don't think it has the competitive simmer.

JILLYPIE -- Many thanks for the feedback on the Gagg Steam. I have searched back on the threads and know people like 'em. And *I* know I wanted the large Gaggenau oven because I love using my mother's. The combi steam just seems so much easier than using a bain marie, a bag, etc. How long did it take you to learn to take advantage of it?

Also, why would you choose the Thermador over SubZero fridge?

Yeah, on the salespeople. I kept challenging them on their information and pinned them down on what they did and didn't know. You're so right about GWers knowing more :) That's why I started here with my research, and read all the brochures and users' manuals online before I talked to them :)

Re DW's, all of them allow you to use rinse aid, and I used to use Jet Dry, but it ran out and I didn't notice any difference...except that I can sometimes taste the Jet Dry on the glasses. I figure why bother if the dishes are as clean without it? Same as the Seventh Generation detergent. James had bad luck with it in the Miele. It made grit. But it hurts my skin to touch Cascade and I can touch Seventh Generation. And the dishes come out all sparkly!

IGLOOCHIC -- Thanks for the recommendation on the KA. I've been happy with the Whirlpool which came with my house. I'll keep looking for a top KA to look at. I hope I like the racks!

BTW, I love your real stove too :) When I first joined this forum I started lusting for it. But I've always preferred cooking with wall ovens and a cooktop. And after a week or two of research, and seeing the Cornu, Lacanche, Aga, Molteni and Bertazzoni in person (didn't have to fly, thank goodness--one of the advantages of So. Cal.), I finally decided that no matter how beautiful they were, they just aren't me.

Is a big green egg a Weber? I'm not happy grilling outside when it's dark and/or cold (I know my cold is your warmish, but I still shiver). But even with a good hood I question how much I'd use an indoor grill. I think I really would use the teppan yaki, but I keep thinking I have a good griddle and while it's not the same I really don't need the teppan yaki. I really don't. It's a toy. But such a useful one :)

I am still on a learning curve with the Gagg Steam oven. Everytime we have companyOnto the Therm/SZ discussion. The inside of the Therm seems more efficient, the door hinge is better (i.e. opens wider) and it really integrates better. Plus I am going to dislocate my shoulder one day from opening the Gol' Darn door!

I am in a dilemma about designing kitchen in new construction, as well. Have visited several appliance stores and read postings on GW daily. Choices so-far (although not ordered and could change) S.Z. 36" all refrig with a separate freezer with ice maker to be put in mud room, steps away (I have yet to find one; do not want to spend $$ on SZ freezer drawers), Wolf 48" range, Kitchen Aid diswasher (American made...seems to get good reviews)..that's it sofar. Microwave is only used for popcorn and occasional heating, so it will be in pantry.

The Bosch dishwasher (German company) is manufactured in the US, here in North Carolina. We got a top-of-the-line model about a year ago, and are very pleased. We don't use any rinsing agent. We don't need it, even though the manual says to do it. What we like about this dishwasher is that it is superquiet and energy efficient; uses less water, which is a savings. And its performance is flawless.

Thanks for the follow-up, Jillypie. I can deal with cleaning an oven :) And you're making me much more confident that I'll use this a lot. How do you make risotto in it? Surely not with constant stirring...

I'm really glad to know your reasons for preferring the Thermador fridge. The hinge is the only part that really concerns me and I prefer the layout of the SZ. I think. I'll take a look at the sister Gaggenau if I can find one to look at. I really like the fridge on top SZ, but I need a full size freezer, and it doesn't make sense to not get the all fridge at that point... I wonder if the non-integrated can be installed without the hinge stop. My father put a bumper on the counter edge because the old fridge on top would have gone at least 180 degrees if it weren't for that.

Blathering on and on to you all who understand has really helped a lot.

Bafla, Thanks for the comments. I think it's far easier designing for others than for oneself :) It's probably easier listening to others than to oneself :) Thank goodness for GW and the Kitchen and Appliance forums!!! I've been considering keeping my old, functional freezer, if I can fit it in the laundry room (there being no mudroom). But I wouldn't want to go there for ice. If I did that I'd either have a small freezer (as in a fridge on top) in the kitchen or a separate icemaker.

Haus proud, I'm not so concerned with made in U.S.A. (though that's a bonus) as operating in the U.S. manner and working with my preferred detergent. Have you ever used Seventh Generation? Anyway, I will give Bosch a look. Thanks!

Oh darling...get your toys (the tepanyaki whatever that is LOL) because if you're going to remodel your kitchen, and go through all that heck, the "fun" stuff is always worthwhile. I have the MOST fabulous coffee maker alive (Delonghi) and while I'm spending hundreds of thousands on the house remodel...the stupid coffee maker (latte stand actually) is my favorite splurge :) You may not use the gadget every day like I do my coffeemaker, but you can pat it good morning and smile at it whenever you want!

The big green egg (thegreenegg.com) is a bbq/smoker. It's shaped like...shocking...a big green egg LOL It's SOOO MUCH more than a weber and preforms like a dream when it's 70 above or 70 below :) But if you dred going outside when it's 40, you won't want one for your grill in the winter :)

I took as much time as you touching all the appliances and many more materials. Take the time, and do your homework so you really love what you get :) It's worth the time!

I had fun because I got to do a second kitchen, and finally got to buy an Aga (I have always loved them) for the rental. I also get to expriene the KA counter debth answer for subzero, which is fun. One thing I learned there...36" isn't enough for fridge freezer....but we'll cross that bridge later I guess. (We already have the subzero in the same configuration). I can't say enough how much we love the DW's though. They're both great, and integrate very well with other SS appliances. And, I did like the rack configerations (the same on both of our models) but that's kind of a personal thing...given that different people wash different things!

Best of luck. I can't wait to see the finished kitchen!

Bafla- look at the Thermador Freedom Towers. They have a separate freezer with ice and water in the door. In sizes from 18" to 30" I think. I am not sure that anyone else makes this item.

OOOOH!! Igloochic, thank-you!! Your message is so reassuring and calming!

I have the most ridiculously expensive paintbrush (artists') which I only pet. I use crappy ones all the time :) There was one thing that was worthy of my darling :) But it is far too beautiful a brush to actually paint with! It never occurred to me to get the teppan yaki to enjoy petting it. I could really like petting it :)

Oh, man! I was looking for the teppan yaki picture and found the part on the Gaggenau website about blanching in the combi steam oven. I hate blanching. With this, it sounds like you just put them in, take them out and dunk them. No chasing them around or anything :)

Thanks for explaining the big green egg :) It's very interesting. But it better never get down to 40 degrees here at dinnertime! :D Sixty is bad enough :)

So I'll take your good advice, and take some time and try to find some more places to go see what I need to see and touch. And I'll see about designing to include that teppan yaki :)