Hey, I was just showing an example for those interested, no need to start feeling insecure. I said nothing about anyone else here.

The point is that it's about OPTIONS and VERSATILITY. If someone doesn't feel it's for them, fantastic! They buy something else and life goes on.

Why didn't I fire up the Frenchtop for this, Rat? Alexr is right, I didn't need to, this small burner was the right tool for the job.

Again, for those INTERESTED in Bluestar, which there seem to be a lot lately. Sheesh!

-Stooxie

That's a damn nice butter warmer stoox

Remember you can option out the simmer burner with a 15k or 22k on the Bluestar if someone can not see the obvious advantages of the simmer burner.

Even Trevor has said he would prefer to have a simmer burner option on the CC.

Available simmer burner - advantage, Bluestar

In the past there have been prospective Bluestar purchasers here who have asked whether they customize and replace the simmer burner with a larger one. I would like to add that I find my BS simmer burner very useful and I use it as much as the larger burners and would not exchange it for a larger burner. YMMV.

People used to brag - my burner is bigger than yours. Now they're bragging my burner is smaller than yours :-)

Stooxie: I don't care if you are cooking on BS, CC, or WW (that's "White-Westinghouse"), all I want to know is: When is dinner?! :-)

As tyguy states, I do think Capital should put a simmer burner on the range, not that it's needed in most instances but it would put peoples minds at rest.

4" $10 pot below

Does this mean so called true simmers from ANY manufacturer are needed?????

Stooxie - just asking - never had a french top & I thought that was what they were for - sauces & such

Rat-- got it.

Yes, the unique feature of the French top is the temperature gradient from the center to the outside. That's why the old French ranges are called "the paino" by some, because a cook would be moving pots/pans over the surfaces to control the heat.

The BS Frenchtop is 5/8" thick steel so it is not ideal for a 120 second-and-I'm-done-with-the-stove job. Hence, I used the simmer burner.

BUT... .if I had the Frenchtop going I could certainly have just put the little pot in the corner and been done no problem.

-Stooxie

From Trevor's pictures the CC burner on simmer looks v. impressive. It looks to me like the CC burners are capable of a small diameter flame which in my experience the larger BS burners are not. That is why I feel the need for - and am glad to have - the smaller burner on the BS - the star burners give a pretty wide diameter flame.

We have measured the diameter of the flame on both the BS and CC. The CC is something like 1/4 inch smaller diameter. A search in this forum would turn up the actual numbers.

The outer flame on the larger burners are indeed about 1/4 more at the end of the Bluestar 8 fingers than the outer ring on a CC.

But the smallest Bluestar burner doesn't have any fingers, it is just one small (but not too small) ring.

And it will go lower than anything C.C. has because there are fewer flames, much fewer. Imagine the picture Trevor took of the C.C. on simmer. Now remove two of the 3 rings of flame and you get stooxie's picture. So the Bluestar flames can be set just as low, but have about 1/2 the flame holes and a smaller diameter.

But to me, the big advantage is when you turn that small Bluestar burner on high, with a 5 or 6 inch pan bottom. Perfect. How do you use a small pan on a C.C. for anything other than a simmer? As soon as you turn the heat up the outer rings engulf the pan sides.

The Bluestar smaller burner is not redundant at all if you like to cook with smaller pans. What is redundant is the excuses some folks need to convince themselves otherwise.

Alexr hit the nail on the head. Not only is the small burner good for simmer, but for small diamter pots it is awesome as well. I would actually pay extra for a simmer burner if I had to.

I like the simmer burner on the Blue Star for small pans-- heating butter, boiling just enough water to coddle one or two eggs.

You can reduce the heat to the pan even more by taking out the center grate, rotating it and letting it sit on top of the supporting grate, which then raises the pot getting it a little bit further from the flame. (you can do this with the other burners too if you want a really low even heat across the bottom of a big pot).

(BS) 5 1/2" vs (CC) 4 3/4" hole to hole (Large Burners)

If Capital did as suggested above, remove the last two outer rings the sizes would be 1/8" difference Hole to Hole.

I am not trying to convince myself that a smaller simmer is redundant, My questions should have been "in this case is a simmer burner needed to do this particular job" the answer is clearly no, IMO

In fact as stated many times I am heavily pushing for small burner one. What I am saying is that in this "Extreme Example" the CC performed equally as well.

Trevor,

I appreciate the input but here you go telling us the CC performed equally well when you don't even know what I did! I understand that you are in favor of a simmer-specific burner on the CC and that's grand, but for the love of God if a range could stand on its head and whistle Dixie there you'd be concocting some "test" to show how the CC could do it better. This wasn't supposed to be a this versus that thread.

As I described in my initial post the butter component is the one pat at the back of the pot and the rest was filled with about 10 cloves of minced garlic. This wasn't an exercise in melting butter in which case a candle or flame thrower work equally well. This was a case of leave this mixture on the burner to mellow and NOT HAVE TO WORRY about it browning or burning. Indeed, that's what I got. I probably left it there for 10 minutes.

Just like Alexr said, there is no magic to the fact that the Bluestar simmer burner has 32 ports on the head while the CC seems to have about 100. This is all standard residential gas pressure so the CC can't somehow be putting out LESS heat for having all those ports! It either goes to the base of the pot or is wasted out the side if the pot is small. (Sure hope we don't have to talk about wasted heat and pot handles again.)

-Stooxie

I thought you explained what you were doing and why you were doing and what you were doing it for, I simply asked our exec chef with 40 years experience to replicate what we felt you were doing and it worked out fine.

I think its time I pay for you to come and cook on a Culinarian so you have some real life experience you can bring to this site regards the differences between BS and CC, not that there is that much difference, both ranges are at the top of the residential tree. (just one slightly above the other...... (just joking calm down everyone)

If you take me up on the offer you will only the third person to have actual cooked on the BS and CC. Joining Amcooks and myself.

Genuine offer no sarcasm or malice in the above statement Just a friendly offer, you would be made more than welcome.

Stooxie: "I still find it very useful to have different burner heads."

Sounds like you think CC is inferior in this respect.

Stooxie: "This wasn't supposed to be a this versus that thread."

Uh huh.

I'll be charitable and believe you don't know you are doing it, but to me your posts show a consistent pattern of boosting BS over CC via snipey remarks, sarcasm, etc., while pretending to be neutral.

PLEASE, take Trevor up on his more-than-gracious offer and go try the CC. I for one would find the results very interesting (especially if you do some Wok cooking).

Disclosure: we don't have a dog in this fight; we don't own either brand and are considering both. My belief is that both are fine products; the differences are very subtle compared to the huge gulf from BS/CC to semi-sealed and sealed burners. And even sealed burners can do a fine job for most purposes.

I share some of the blame for the return volleys. But it wasn't directed at Trevor, but an earlier post from deeageaux who wrote "A small simmer burner is redundant if you have a standard burner that can hold simmer temperatures. "

Maybe it shouldn't be a mystery to me that these threads seem to descend into competitions about nothing, taking place in virtual space, with no neutral judge. Maybe that's the way of all boards that have something to do with some sort of equipment.

The initial post didn't seem to throw down any sort of gauntlet to me. It illustrated something I like about my own range. With 6 burners, I definitely like having one that's physically a bit smaller and has a dedicated simmer. Terrific for, among other things, a small butter warmer warming . . . say, butter, and perhaps poaching some minced or planed garlic in the butter as we see in the post.

I like this particular tool for this particular task, but I'm quite sure that one can simmer or warm on other burners, open or sealed, as I've done it and seen it done. Maybe I can prefer this arrangement without supposing that everyone has to do the same, or weigh the preference equally? I had BS swap the position of the left-most burners so that my simmer burner sits in the left front corner and my second high-output burner sits in the left rear corner. I'm glad I did, but hardly offended if somebody prefers to arrange things differently.

I'd be happy to have Trevor buy me a ticket to Boston to cook on a Culinarian, but that's just because I happen to like Boston (and wouldn't mind a free trip) and happen to look cooking (and wouldn't mind cooking in Boston). If I were to end up with a slight preference for my current range, that would be fine, but hardly any sort of personal triumph, and if I were to see some advantages to the other one, I shouldn't think I'd feel at all bad about what I have now. To be fair to Trevor, who didn't actually offer, it's hard for me to imagine that he could get a sale out of the trip, even if it's not hard to imagine that he has terrific things to show me.

"no neutral judge"

As someone who is considering both BS and CC right now and has no clear favorite, I certainly consider myself neutral.

I hate the whole airline experience, so I'm reluctant to go to Boston. That means I have to try and puzzle things out from what I have seen for myself locally (BS hooked up but not cooking; CC not hooked up), and what I can glean here.

Bearing that in mind, here are my thoughts so far:

1. We have a cooktop with different sized burners (two large, two small) at present. I dislike this arrangement, because I have to remember which is which, and shuffle pans around. As a result of that experience, I'm not too keen on the notion of three different burner sizes, but having a total of six burners might well make that less of an issue. I don't have such a negative reaction to the idea of five equal size plus one smaller tucked away on a back corner. Net: given CC's proven ability to simmer at adequately on their big burners, I find the simplicity of all the burners being the same size appealing.

2. "AlexR" made a very interesting point about simmer being a red herring and the real benefit of a smaller burner coming when cooking in a small pan over higher heat. That's certainly something I notice on our current cooktop - we definitely have to use the smaller burners with our smallest pans, otherwise the flames shoot up the sides. Without trying it for myself, I don't know how much of an issue it would be with the CC burners (which seem to direct the heat more to the center of the pan. You also have to consider that "high" on a small burner is around "medium" on a large burner. Net: I have no clue about this because I can't do the tests. If this is a real issue, I'd want more two small burners.

3. Serious wok cooking is huge for us*. Based on my own observation of the BS, and Trevor's video of the CC, I think the CC has an advantage over the BS here.

4. I preferred the fit and styling of the grates on the latest iteration of BS to that of the CC we saw. A recent thread suggests that CC has improved the grate fit issue, but it's still a nagging question.

5. CC's grease tray on glides is definitely nicer that BS's one-piece slide-out. Not something one does very often, so not that big a deal.

6. The CC grease tray is made up of two separate trays (I am talking about the 36" here - the two trays are both full width with an overlap running left-to-right halfway back). It looked to me that the CC trays would be easier to handle for cleaning compared to BS's one-piece tray. That said, I suspect we'd just line them with foil, in which case BS would probably be easier.

Both brands' burner patterns have merits. BS's star avoids the grate fingers, which certainly seems sensible. CC seems to get a little more of the flame to the very center of the pan (especially important for true wok cookery).

My bottom line is "wow - how lucky we are to have a choice of two great open burner range tops, either of which would do a fabulous job for us!" OK, I'm lying - TKO means that I am agonizing over this choice. :)

* - There are folks who believe you can do real wok cookery on 15K BTU, so I don't trust others' opinions too much on this one. We have an outdoor wok burner that looks and sounds like a small jet engine and can make a wok glow red hot; we know what real wok cooking means. Any indoor residential appliance is a poor second to that, but we want the very best we can get.

Trivia Corner PS: Our current cooktop is a top-of-the-line Kitchenaid from about 24 years ago. The burners are open, and consist of four or six small caps arranged in circles, each with orifices about 3/4 of the way round. I think they called them "chrysanthemum burners". The idea was to get even heating, but the lack of any flame in the center made that a non-starter. The cooktop is 36", and has an electric grill in the center. The electric grill has never been used! We suspect the previous owners, like us, didn't fancy the idea of trying to clean it after use.

@PeterH2 have you seen the wok demo videos on the BlueStar website?

We haven't tried this yet but plan to, soon.

Here is a link that might be useful: BlueStar Wok Stir Fry

Hi Peter,

Sorry for the late response, I just got back from catering a wedding.

As I said in my initial post, there have been lots of questions asked around here about how these big open burners do with small pots. I posted a picture to show my experience with that. I'm sorry if you find hidden meaning here.

I don't need to "boost" (is this the word of the day?) anything, I am just showing some real world experiences which seem to be lacking.

Enjoy!

-Stooxie

SieraHH: thanks for the link.

My impression from the video is that the BS may be slightly weaker than the CC, but I really can't be sure. Both are certainly hugely better than any normal domestic burner. Both are weak beans compared to a real wok burner, or even the portable outdoor type we have (see link below). On a real wok burner, about 5 seconds on high makes the wok glow bright red. The demo dish in the BS video would have taken about 1/3 the time to cook (and had much more wok hei).

Here is a link that might be useful: Portable wok burner

Peter, the newer Bluestar V-1 drip tray have several trays within a tray. I've seen it, the idea is that the smaller tray can be pulled out and cleaned in the sink. I also think they improved the bearings that the main tray slides on.

Someone who has the newer model can maybe comment.

Trevor: First off, I have to pick on you for a bit here. It is not meant to be mean spirited, because I think you are a decent guy based on what I have seen you post on this forum, and I have never said anything negative about you. I have in fact posted that if I lived in the US when I bought my Bluestar I would have bought it from you, and I maintain that.

All of the above said there are some "buts":

I do remember the days very clearly that you came on here and tried to disprove anything and everything negative said towards Bluestar ranges.

You are probably the most biased person on this forum. Yes, we all have our bias's but you certainly have the most to lose or gain by promoting the product you sell. Trying to prove CC superiority over BS is the way you put food on your table and pay the mortgage. Plus you are bound to have some sour grapes towards Bluestar as a company because they pulled their product from you days after learning about you carrying the CC (according to your own previous post) and I can not blame you one bit. You can come in here and try and say there are no sour grapes and blah blah blah, but you are human Trevor, you will have a bitter taste towards them. That being said you have been very gracious.

You have also displayed in your own tests that the Bluestar simmers at a lower temp than the CC by almost 40 degrees, which is a very significant 18-19%. I would love to come and adjust the low flame on the BS and re run the tests. This would take the bias out your tests. I suspect I could make the difference even greater.

Now Trevor, here is a question for you: Can you honestly say that Bluestar does not have the advantage over CC in the simmer department, even tho your own tests show a lower simmer temp and you yourself have said (to paraphrase) that if you had your way, you would have a dedicated simmer option on the CC? AND Bluestar does not HAVE to have a simmer burner if one does not like different sized burners.

Well, one thing I do know for SURE, is if your tests proved the CC to have a lower temp that alone would be enough for you to have a bunch of video's showing the superiority of the Capital. Unless you were till selling Bluestar and not Capitals at all, you would be showing off the Bluestar advantage.

Again Trevor, you are an amazing guy. You have helped BS and CC owners out even when they did not buy from you, and that is truly classy...BUT you are very biased.

Every range has advantages and disadvantages when compared against each other. I can admit the advantages of the CC over The Bluestar, but there are also a lot of advantages to a BS.

Peter,

I too put wok cooking at the top of my requirements and I can tell you for a fact that after wok cooking on BS, CC, and a 125k BTU/h outdoor wok burner, neither the BS nor CC will live up. Of course the outdoor wok burner doesn't compare to a 250+k BTU/h restaurant wok range. My point is that it's all relative. For residential indoor setup, either BS or CC will serve you well. I do find that the CC produces more focused heat to the center of the wok over BS.

With regard to small pans on the full sized burners... At about half or even a bit higher, the flames produce perfect coverage across my smallest pan which is about 4-5" in diameter. I had the same result on the BS large burners. So if BS had offered the all large burner config without upcharge, I would have preferred it. I do find the midsized burners a total waste however. Just one man's opinion.

tyguy....

Q... Am I Biased or do I only post about what I know about?, does that make me biased or informative?

Q... Have I ever told anyone on this site to buy a BS or nowadays a CC, I don"t even do that on the phone I simply answers questions asked of me.

Q...Are the real biased people those who constantly post about what they own, but have most probably not seen let alone cooked on other units they critique.

I simply correct people who give wrong or overly complicated answers to people who ask questions or to inform.

Lets be honest any regular poster knows why Stooxie initiated this thread and what would happen with following postings. In my mind it was directed at the lack of a small simmer burner on the CC. That is why I did the same test on the CC, to show that the CC can in this test perform equally as well.

Do I think the BS has a better simmer capability than the CC YES. Having said that I have yet to come across a test thrown up by anyone on this site that the CC has not been able to match / perform on the larger burners. So far people have asked for Rice, butter (twice) chocolate all worked on the CC, BS and Wolf.

As for the testing, I make 100% sure my test are as accurate as possible, why? because should manufacturers disagree with my test or find it to be fixed I could find myself in deep trouble legally, at the end of the day like the tests results or not they are what they take them or leave them.

To answer your question....

1) At certain times I am sure BS has the advantage over the CC in the simmer department, not that i have come across many to date, but the answer is yes.

2) If I had my way CC would have a dedicated smaller burner.

Not sure what this means sorry.... "AND Bluestar does not HAVE to have a simmer burner if one does not like different sized burners."

Most to lose or gain.

Clearly I make a living selling appliances, My company has always sold what we honestly think is the best of the best, and that continues today.

I knew BS would be to say the least be upset when I stated that I felt the CC was now the number 1 cooking range in the US. But again we sell what we feel is the best. Note that the CC would never have been born if had I told capital they don't stand a chance when it comes to competing with the BS.

Was I upset by BS actions you bet your last $ I was, even when BS took me out to dinner 6 months ago to see if there was a way for Eurostoves and BS to get back together I was wide open to the idea, would I love to sell BS again yes I would in a second. I think BS and CC have different features for different people, having said that would selling BS again make any difference to my beliefs NO....

PeterH2

I think you're right that, not having made up your mind, you are neutral -- what I really had in mind is that there's no universal bundle of preferences, or universally accepted way to operationalize those preferences, that would resolve most of these debates, except insofar as one or another party to the debate happens to like some bundle of tests, or arguments, or features. I don't like some of the bile produced in some of the back and forth, but that's just me, and maybe not a big deal in any case. Having folks go back and forth can help potential consumers think about what they do and don't want, and might or might not like.

It can also tend to amplify and even distort what for many might be marginal, or even infra-marginal differences between a and b.

I also think you're right that we're fortunate to have choices in the market. For me, 2 high-output burners, 3 broad spectrum burners (pretty low, to what many would consider pretty darn high), plus one smaller simmer burner is a very handy arrangement -- I'm never confused which is which (and don't puzzle over it any more than I puzzle over gas, brake, and clutch while driving). On the other hand, if you really want all burners to cover the same full range, then that's your preference and there's not a darn thing wrong with that preference.

Trevor,

Thank you for your transparency at least. Trying to discredit me and my intentions while not missing an opportunity to remind everyone that the product you sell is #1? Classy!

It's ok, as long as people have an interest I will gladly continue to post real world experiences on my range because real world experiences are all that count. If that makes you defensive or stirs up the CC owners then you'll have to deal with your own neuroses.

-Stooxie

> Q... Am I Biased or do I only post about what I know about?, does that make me biased or informative?

Trevor, you are both. I have yet to meet a human that is not biased. That includes me. It also includes judges who are sworn to not hold any bias. Most of the people who post on here are informative. Biased information for sure, but still informative.

> Q... Have I ever told anyone on this site to buy a BS or nowadays a CC, I don"t even do that on the phone I simply answers questions asked of me.

Agreed. You are a good sales man. I have never in my life bought something from someone who tells me to buy a certain product or service. I would walk away...no I would run away from that. I would only buy from one that presents their biased thoughts and information to me. Which ever product I like better, or the sales man who's biased information I seem to like better is the one that gets my sale.

> Q...Are the real biased people those who constantly post about what they own, but have most probably not seen let alone cooked on other units they critique.

Well, that would eliminate about 9o% or more of the people on here, so what would the point of forums like this be? Most people on here tell their biased opinions of what they like and don't like about the product they have chosen. It is up to those gathering the biased information to make a decision. Taking a range for example. I don't need to cook on a CC to know that a larger oven capacity of a BS is hugely important to me. The tradeoff is higher outside oven temps. I couldn't care less about high outside oven temps. This could be completely opposite to Bob Smith down the street from me. This could go on and on with most of the pro's and con's. It is important to me that my appliances look like they belong together, that means handles matching at least fairly closely. To some, that is just plain silly.

Performance wise(burners), although I think we are splitting hairs here, I do believe the CC has a very slight advantage, but it should, it has 1k more btu. There is much more to a range than a this. I have seen the CC in person. I have not cooked on it, but I do not need to in order to see that the stove top is very cheap, flimsy and I suppose more "residential" looking in comparison to the commercial looking Bluestar. And with the mixture of stainless and cast iron it will look like crap with some of the heavy cooking I do. My old Viking had similar issues. When I buy a "Professional" range, I want it to be as close to a restaurant range as possible, performance and build and looks. This is where BS is still the king.

> 1) At certain times I am sure BS has the advantage over the CC in the simmer department, not that i have come across many to date, but the answer is yes.

Ok, fair enough. That is all I wanted you to admit. Does this translate into a real world difference? Maybe, maybe not? But do all your tests proving the "superior" performance of the CC high power burner translate into real world difference? Maybe, maybe not.

My only beef was that you have shown that the BS has a superior simmer and yet your tone on here is that the Capital is "equal". It is not, and sorry but that is your bias showing through.

> Not sure what this means sorry.... "AND Bluestar does not HAVE to have a simmer burner if one does not like different sized burners."

I was only trying to say that with BS you are not forced into a burner configuration like you are with Capital. I like having different size burners, but for those who do not, then you can opt for all 22k's.

> Was I upset by BS actions you bet your last $ I was

Are you still going to claim no bias? Bias is not always positive. It can be negative bias.

Once again Trevor, I think you are a good guy. A saint? No, but a good guy. I put myself into that same category. That being said, you do seem to display a tendency to insinuate that your opinion is much more valuable than pretty much anyone else's on here, just as you did in this very thread.

tyguy - Trevor performed tests that apparently in his mind made the CC a better performing range. That makes him biased?

At the very minimum, in the real world everybody heats up a stock-pot of pasta water on full-on high. How high that high is and how fast that water will boil is pretty much beyond your control. On the other end of the spectrum there are many ways to control low temperature. Simmer plates, double boilers, flipping the grates (on some ranges) etc. So I submit that high output is more important than low. Of course there are other important factors other than pure heat.

I think it's unfair of you to call Trevor biased. He's stating his opinion based on what he feels are relevant tests. That's what most reasonable people would do.

I've don't see where you see him insinuating his opinion is more valuable than anyone else's. He has stated that out of everyone here, he and Amcook have the most experience on both ranges. Unless there's someone lurking and keeping their mouth shut, I rather suspect he's right.

Really? Being paid on the sales of a product isn't a bias? Just when you think you've seen it all...

-Stooxie

And I suppose he doesn't get paid when he sells Dacor, Berta, Aga, Capital Precision, Fivestar, American Range, etc.?

Capital developed a range with the specific intention of out-performing Bluestar. Ever think that maybe, just maybe, they succeeded? Or did Trevor just take their first attempt and agree that it was a better performer without even trying it and performing his own tests? If that's what happened, he's certainly putting a lot at risk by inviting the general public to come try them out side-by-side on their own.

Food,

Read Trevor's own words: he helped spec the CC to out-do the Bluestar on paper. Obviously it has to perform and it certainly sounds like it does, but to think that this is "objective" is a lesson in the irrational.

Resellers sell what gives them the best margin for a given amount of sales effort. This was discussed at length in another thread, no need to retrench.

-Stooxie

I haven't looked at the tests in a while, but I do recall that some of them seemed a bit hokey and perhaps irrelevant to me. People are going to question any test when they don't like the result. Many people question the validity of CR's tests, and they don't even sell anything. But I also recall that there were some tests which were pretty straight-forward and about as objective as you could get, such as the boiling test. IIRC the CC blew every other range out of the water. I don't think it was 50% faster than the BS but it was a lot.

Until someone shows me evidence that Trevor has knowingly rigged the tests and controls such that they benefit the CC, I'm going to give him benefit of the doubt that he genuinely believes that the CC is the stronger performer.

Now whether what's important to him is what's important to you or me is another story altogether. But to me that's not reason to call his integrity into question, which is exactly what's happening here yet once again.

I was going to reply to this thread again today with more details and to answer questions, but due to an Attoney's letter from Bluestar which I received today I am unable to discuss comparisons between ranges at this time.

My freedom of speech and OPINION is on hold right now

When a reseller is intimately familiar with one company's products and deficiencies and then they take all that straight to a competitor, I can imagine a letter was sent.

And to think all I wanted to do was post a picture of me heating up some garlic...

-Stooxie

I think Trevor can (and should) respond with his posts about C.C. without actually comparing the two and stepping on Bluestar's legal toes.

I for one, enjoy all Trevor's posts and think he has been a great asset to this forum. He gave me advice on a griddle, and all his various tests I found informative and fun. Just as I read all the eGullet discussions on cookware. I know there's money involved for some of these companies...

Still it's a relief to discuss/debate cooking tools when tomorrow there will be a general strike and shutdown of a city center in Oakland and I may have my head banged in when I join in on my way home from S.F.

foodonastump: you are biased (and proven in your posts). I am biased as well. So is bad Leroy Brown. Everyone is. Are you honestly trying to say that Trevor is not? That is beyond ridiculous.

I really do not know if you have read my posts, or maybe it was me not communicating well enough. I have never said Trevor's test results are false. They may be, but I do not think that they are. I was simply saying that even his OWN test showed that the BS is superior in the simmer department, but he would come on here and allude that they are equal. He has since verbally stated that BS does have a technical advantage here.

I do not know how many times I have to say this, but I think Trevor is a good guy. If I am ever in his hood and have the time, I would love to go in and say hello to him. I also value his input on this forum.

@trevor: I am sorry to hear you are being stifled.

My final take on this is as follows.

The CC did as well as any other range would have done on the test Stooxi outlined, I doubt any modern day range in the US would have failed this test, does that mean the CC is better or equal or worse.... NO. It simply means it passed this test and for that matter all other simmer tests offered up by GW posters.

I ran this test because I wanted to know the result, I to am eager to learn.

In the end should the CC have a dedicated simmer the debate continues. If I owned capital it would have one for sure, does that mean it needs one for all simmering occasions NO.

I guess the only people who are truly not biased on this site and others are those who have yet to decided what to buy, but they to will most probably become biased in the end...

tyguy - I think what's unclear is your understanding of the word "bias." Bias, to me (and to MS Word's thesaurus) means things like prejudice, partiality, unfairness, foregone conclusion, etc. Having a preference based on what one has learned through research and observation does not make one biased.

If Trevor says CC is better only because he makes more money selling them, then that is biased. If Trevor says CC is better because it performs best on the greatest amount of tests that he feels are legitimate and relevant, then that's a preference.

"My freedom of speech and OPINION is on hold right now"

I suggest you contact the ACLU. Bully-boy tactics to stifle freedom of speech should always be resisted. This news makes it much less likely that I will purchase anything from BS.

Peter

Don't be put off one range over another due to anybody's situation. I knew what I was possibly in for when I said what I believe to be true.

As I have always said for 7 years irrespective of what I am selling or advising on.... "buy what you feel is right for you and what you feel comfortable with, you have my opinion take it or leave it."

There are whole countries whose products I avoid due to my dislike of their governments' behavior or economic relationship with the USA...

I support my country irrespective of my view on some of our own government behavior and policies. Bluestar is made in Pennsylvania, a state that I grew up in and therefore had some bearing on my purchase. Likewise I sought out older Griswold skillets because they were made in Erie,Pa. and had a solid reputation.

Call me sentimental, or old fashioned, but Prizer-Painter (Bluestar) has been around since the 1880's and manufactured some Garland ranges for a few years as well, and that means something to me. And as long as they do their best, then it has worth to me.

"When a reseller is intimately familiar with one company's products and deficiencies and then they take all that straight to a competitor, I can imagine a letter was sent."

Your just plain downright "unpleasant", Stooxie and I'm being
"Charitable" to say the least!!!!!

Every other company in the world, that I know of can make an oven whose door opens and without lubrication---so Trevor certainly didn't let out any big secrete to Capital there, just make a door like everybody else does, (Except Blue Star).

Did Trevor take over the "Secrete Open burner Formula" of BS, look close the burners aren't even close unless you're soooo Freakin dumb you can't tell a star from a comet (and that would not surprise me if you couldn't)!!!!!

Trevor is honest, we all what know He does and what He sells. Add up all the sales people, manufactures reps, Shrills (such as you), You name it, add them all up together and they don't even come in a "Close 2nd" to the help Trevor is here!!!

I'm sure if he were still putting info videos out on the great performance of the BS you couldnt get enough of it or say enough about it!

Your just plain rudeness and arrogance is gonna do more damage to BS, than any "Falsely Alledged Secretes" passed on to BS supposedly by Trevor!

Who the Heck are you, and why this "Overexuberance" (again being polite), for Blue Star?

Oopsss almost missed this:

"And to think all I wanted to do was post a picture of me heating up some garlic... "

You wanted to "Push the BS", hmmmmm good choice of letters
(meant Blue Star but the other fits even better)!!!

You must think we all just fell off the "Turnip Truck" if you think we all believe that!

Signed

DISGUSTED!!!!!!

To be fair, I think Stooxie has been 'burnt', by all the Capital C.C. boosters, many who fell for all the hype, and wrote disparaging remarks about Bluestar, yet never owned either brand, but were just jumping on the C.C. band wagon. Now some C.C. owners have spoken up that they too have had their problems. Again, I agree that Trevor has been a big help to many people who read this forum, and I appreciate his posts.

Alexr - Yep, I'd say that's fair to say. Personally I got a kick out of it when so many folks blindly jumped on the the CC bandwagon. Kind of a payback for the "either you're a serious cook and you have a Bluestar or you're not and you don't" mentality that ran rampant here for years. You've certainly been here long enough to experience it ad nauseum and I credit you for never taking part in it.

Wow, that got pretty ugly Dodge. I do agree with you about the hinges/door tho. I wondered why on earth they couldn't seem to get a reliable hinge made. However, it does for the first time appear as tho the new designed hinge is different from the previous ones. Lets hope.

foodonastump: I think this will be my last response on this thread as it sunk to new record levels. I just want to clear up that I have never said Trevor's tests were rigged or his experience is not based what so ever on fact or that his posts were not valuable. It is actually that he has a lot of experience on both ranges that I sort of hold him to a higher level than many people.

There are a lot of things said on here against BS since the CC came along that are false and Trevor does not come out to correct these inaccuracies they way he would have before the CC or if the inaccuracy was toward the CC. One example I can think of right off the top of my head was when a member of GW posted that the BS burner was 8" in diameter. It was me that had to correct the gross inaccuracy of that. If the same inaccuracy was said of the CC you can be sure he would be there to correct it, or pre CC he would have been there to correct it. And in this case the simmer has been proven to be superior (technically speaking) to the CC. When Stooxie made his post, I think Trevor should have let it be.

As to the definition of bias, I simply think of bias to mean impartial judgment. And Trevor does not have that, neither do you or I. Do you think when Trevor performs these tests, that he doesn't give a rats behind which range comes out better like an impartial judge would? Do you think that after the break up of their relationship that he would be an impartial judge? Do you think that he is an impartial judge when he was a very big player in the design and probably the single reason why the CC exists? No way. Because of these facts, and since Trevor has the most to lose or gain, I do believe his bias is probably greater than many, although he certainly does try to keep it under control. And again, I am not trying to bash Trevor. If I have to say it 1000 times I will, I think he is a wonderful guy.

The last point I have to reiterate is that there are a LOT of pro's and cons to both ranges that you do not have to have cooked on both to realize. I already realize that the CC has a slight high power advantage. Same as I realize that BS has a low power advantage. I realize CC has an external oven temp advantage same as I realize BS has a oven size advantage. Same thing with buying a car, there are some models you do not have to drive to know that you are not interested. It may be as tiny a detail as the trunk it too small for your needs/wants. I am not 100% certain on this, but I also believe that he was singing the praises of the CC before he himself had cooked on one.

So I guess that is it for this thread for me.