Very interesting and thorough analysis. One thing I found quite interesting was the fact that you point out that the open burners are not that easy to clean. I have a DCS sealed burner range. Years ago, on this forum, I used to argue how easy the sealed burner range was to clean and got shouted down by all the open burner advocates who said that all you had to do was clean the drip trays. I find it interesting that you point out that a lot of the gunk gets stuck in the guts of the range and to clean it properly you really have to take it apart. That's just something I would never do.

Weissman, I remember well those discussions about open versus sealed burners!

I think the sealed burner advocates understated the difficulty of cleaning off baked-on junk (which is not a problem with open burners as nothing gets baked on) and the open burner advocates underestimated what is required to take apart the stovetop to do a thorough cleaning.

I would say the day to day cleaning is easier with the open burners, but a periodic deep cleaning is harder with open burners, and something that is not needed with sealed burners. With the Culinarian the drip tray needs to be cleaned regularly (just like with sealed burners you pull the grates and wipe off the drip trays, but nothing is baked on) and the innards need to be cleaned about once per year.

I would also say that the Bluestar burner and stovetop design is more advanced than the Capital design in terms of cleanup -- but i don't have a Bluestar so I cannot say this definitively (although I looked at internet photos of the innards of the Bluestar tops so I do have an educated opinion on this).

I am glad I got the rangetop and separate electric ovens. There are a lot of oven questions that come up for both Bluestar and Capital, but many are perfectly happy with them.

One consideration with separate ovens is how you will ventilate them in terms of exhaust -- in our house they are not next to the range hood so smoke from the ovens can and do set off our smoke detector.

Billy

PS The sheet metal bracket for the Culinarian ignitors was inexcusable. It caught all sorts of junk that did bake onto the surface because it is next to the burner. I view it as either a quick kludge to get the Culinarian to market or as a design defect that was later addressed in the new burners.

This post was edited by billy_g on Sun, Oct 26, 14 at 12:08

I realize that some sealed burners have problems with baked on gunk, but I've never had that problem with my DCS. The cooktop is some kind of non-shiny SS and cleans up very easily. I can use a Dobie pad or blue scrubbie with some Fantastik or BKF and baked on gunk comes right off.

Weissman, that's a winner. It's hard to argue with easy cleanup, and I recall you like the DCS burners.

Billy

I do like the DCS burners. The 17.5K burner undoubtedly doesn't generate as much direct heat as an open 22K burner but it has reasonable heat distribution and more than meets my needs. The simmer is also incredible. People generalize about sealed and open burners, but they're not all created equal!

"People generalize about sealed and open burners, but they're not all created equal!"

That is the truth!

Billy

"People generalize about sealed and open burners, but they're not all created equal!" ...Yes, that is the truth!

CC is a great range, but one of the main reasons I chose Bluestar over CC (or others) was the burner design.
I would actually consider CC's to be more of a "semi open" design because of the stainless tray that surrounds the burners, much like my old Thermador from 1986, and my 1969 Kenmore at our weekend place, same trays surrounding the burners.
The Blustar has no such tray, and therefore is a breeze to clean. I'm not exaggerating when I say I've never owned a range that was so easy to keep clean. In 18 months of three time or more times a day use, I have never done anything more than wipe down the grates/bowls. Usually, I just take a basting brush and sweep any crumbs into the bowl, which fall in the pullout trays below.
I also have never used soap and water on the cast iron, I've let it season like any cast iron cookware and it simply wipes clean.

Thanks for the comprehensive review, Billy!
Chris

I'm in the middle of choosing a rangetop, and am debating between the CC and the BS. Thanks so much for such an informative post! BS looks like they have the edge at the moment.

golfergirl29,

You can't go wrong with either one. Both of the them will perform well as far as the burners. The main issues are after-sales service, your preferences on how they will look in your kitchen, and cleanup. I think most of the Capital manufacturing issues have been worked out by now. The new burners on the Capital are more refined than the old ones (see my thread on the New Capital Culinarian Burners). The Bluestar is easier to clean up, and it looks more industrial which could be good or bad depending on what you like. I hope you have the opportunity to see both in person.

Good luck with your decision!

Billy

Here is a link that might be useful: New Capital Culinarian Burners

Billy .... Sorry mate ... but I totally disagree with you on the cleaning, I am one of a handful in the country to use and clean both the BS and CC, and the CC is easier to clean no doubt in my mind.

The gaps you have with your grates have been resolved, capital has the parts needed to fix that issue.

As with all things manufactured changes are made on an ongoing basis the CC is not different.

Trevor,

Interesting... what makes the BS so difficult to clean?

The Capital person I worked with didn't understand the grate problem, or maybe he "forgot" about the problem and how to address it.

What is the fix to the grate/gap problem? Is it bigger or different grates? I can tell that the rails are part of the problem, as they were notched too deeply causing the grates to sit so low that they cannot move forward to the edge of the trim, because the underside of the grates hit the pan.

I understand engineering improvements. I also can see when there is sloppy manufacturing which is something very different. The new burners are mostly engineering improvements and I am OK with paying for them. I am happy to have the improved burner/ignitor system. The crooked brackets and gaps around the grates and off-center burners were sloppy manufacturing and I think Capital should repair this at their cost.

I'm sure they have all of their manufacturing flow worked out now and I would be surprised if any of these problems exist in their current Culinarians.

Below is the photo I took of Surjit Kalsi when I visited the Capital factory in April 2011. He was very nice to me and generous with his time. Maybe I should contact him about the manufacturing issues.

Billy

I want to follow up on the cleaning aspect of Capital Culinarian versus Bluestar. Trevor sent me some photos he was unable to post and I've posted them below.

One of the areas that is difficult to clean on the Bluestar is on the sides of the cooktop. Dirt and grease gets trapped on the side ledge as shown below. Notice that the sheet metal edges are exposed and this can lead to some nasty cuts when you're cleaning.

.

.

In the Capital Culinarian there is no side ledges to trap grease -- instead there are rails that are removable as shown in the photos below (the first photo shows the rail and the second photo shows the rail removed).

.

.

In addition to the top ledges the innards of the Bluestar look pretty dirty. I underestimated the benefits of the upper drip pan in the Culinarian which catches a lot of this junk before it falls into the interior of the stove. I don't have a Bluestar so I was guessing at the cleanup and now I can see the cleanup on the Bluestar may be more difficult than I assumed.

Billy

Hi Billy,
We just got the CC 30-inch manual clean and there is no half-inch gap at the front of the stovetop. There must have been a redesign somewhere because it sits flush against the front edge of the stove. Also, the grease-encrusted center post visible in all of your pictures (beneath the ignitor) is gone from our stove. As for the cast iron grates being off-center above the burner, this too isn't an issue on our stove. There's a little wiggle room and we can slide those grates to and fro just enough so that they're perfectly centered. We've had a few bubble-overs with pasta water, and the water pools in the slightly lipped round stainless steel traps that surround the burner. Those trays have been much easier to clean than our previous porcelain-coated metal trays on our GE. We've only had it 6 weeks so I'll have to check back in when it comes time to give it a thorough cleaning. I can't see myself taking it apart like you did.
Our issue so far is the oven. We love the size, but the tradeoff is it's hard to clean thoroughly because it's so deep. It's also hard to gauge the temperature. It seems to be running cooler than the dial suggests. A coffee cake in a pyrex dish calling for 25 minutes at 350 took 45 minutes at 375 on regular bake. We will try convection next time and see how that goes.
Overall we love cooking on the stovetop, and we have high hopes that we'll figure out the oven before the holidays.

Hi Claire,

Enjoy your new range! I have the rangetop so I don't know anything about their ovens.

It sounds like the fit and finish is great in the production models, as expected. Mine was an early production model so there were some hiccups. The new burners are great, and the gaps can probably be cured with new rails and possibly new grates. I will be checking on that. It's a problem Capital was aware of but they never contacted me about it, even though I registered my unit with Capital using the serial number...

Isn't it great how quickly bubble-overs can occur with the high powered burners?! It is great for cooking. I made some Chicken Sauce Piquante last night.

Billy

CC UPDATE:

Yesterday I received some updated parts from Capital to address some issues with the gaps between the grates and centering the burners below the grates. They sent new rails and new burner pans.

Below are the new rails for the two burners on the right side of the rangetop. The top rail is the old one, the middle rail is the new one, and the bottom pair are new wrapped up rails. Look at the tabs in the new rails.

Below is a closeup view of one end of the old and new rails. The bottom rail is the new one. Note the better finish and smooth rounded edges. Also note the tab, which faces up to keep the grates in place so they don't slide around.

Below is a closeup of the center of the rails. You can see a metal tab in the new rail which is used to space apart the front and rear grates and keep them in place.

Below, note the old and new burner pans. The old pan is on the left and the new pan is on the right, with the blue protective film still on the pan.

Below is a closeup view of the front of the new and old burner pans. The new burner pan has a notch cut out. I believe this allows the front grate to slide forward to eliminate the gap between the grate and the front lip of the rangetop.

Below is a photo of the rear of the burner pans. The old and new ones look pretty much the same.

This photo shows the new pan in place.

This photo shows one of the new rails in place. The rail fits over the formed edge of the burner pan (I think?) but it sits skewed until the burner is put on top of it.

Below is a photo of the two burners on the right side of the rangetop. The burners are still not centered in the grates, probably because of the way the burner bracket was attached to the inside of the rangetop during manufacturing. The new rails and pans have eliminated the gaps between the grates.

On the left side of the rangetop are four burners. Below is a photo of the old rails and burner pans with the grates removed. Note the wide center rail and the narrow rails on the left and right. These rails support the grates.

Below is a photo of the old and new center rail. The new center rail on the left has a fin to keep the grates from sliding left and right. There is a tab (positioned toward the back of the stove) and a center tab to position the grates.

This is a closeup of the new and old rails.

These are the new burner pans on the left side of the rangetop before the rails are installed.

This is a photo of the left side of the left burner pan. You can see that the gap is wider in the rear than at the front of the burner pan. This gap is the result of a slight mistake in the original manufacturing.

Below is a photo with the grates in place on top of the new rails and pans. The new rails resulted in the grates being positioned correctly so they don't slide around and create gaps. They look good.

Some of the burners are still off center on the grates. You only notice this when you put your head over the burners and look straight down. It is troubling but in the end not a big deal. I usually look at the flame pattern to center a pot on the burner.

And the simmer burner.

It is great that I could get parts to upgrade the rangetop with engineering improvements. I cannot imagine that any other stove company would do this for their customers.

This is what the final product looks like -- a few shots of this part of the kitchen with the 48 inch Capital Culinarian rangetop.

By the way, that is a statue of Alfred E Neuman on top of the range hood. It says "What, me worry?"

Billy

Billy--I didn't know that you still had the old burner pans and rails. Capital sent me new ones a within a few months of my install 3 years ago. The new ones are a nice improvement over the old sloppy ones.

Still jealous of those new burners. :) Alfred looks great up there!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Breezygirl,
I think Capital updated their internal database system and I somehow was lost in their system. They had to reenter my serial number and contact information in their system. That would explain not receiving the new rails and burner pans a few years ago when I should have, but all is well.

Happy Thanksgiving!

And I hope Santa brings some new burners.

I told DW Alfred is coming down when we are finished with everything in the house . I think he has a permanent place ...
Billy

Billy,

Based on the photo, it appears that you not only got new pans and rails but igniters as well. I still have what you showed in the original photo's on my CC rangetop.

of course if I just went back and and clicked on the link to the new burner thread I would have seen that you upgraded to the new burners. Hmmm. I think I may have to look into this.

Was it easy to install the new burners and gas orifice?

Todd,

The new burners are super easy to install, about 60 seconds each after you remove the burner pans.

It is not hard to install a new gas orifice. Just take your time and watch some YouTube instructions.

Billy

Todd,
I have photos of installing a new orifice in my thread 8K Simmer Burner Retrofit that is referenced further up in this thread.
Billy

Todd--I just realized that I never answered your email from summer. Check your inbox. Apologies.

Great review, it's interesting to see how things have changed! We finished a new home build in May and based on this site I installed a 6 burner CC rangetop and double Electrolux oven. I'm glad I followed the path of many others!

One question - did you have to "buy" the updated rails?

Looking at your photos your center support bars are different than mine. Mine don't have the center rail. One annoying thing is the grates seem to move around a little bit. It looks like that raised center spine would help with that.

Thanks!

Hey kwoody51,

We did not have to buy the rails. You should contact Capital. The center spline does a great job of limiting the grate movement.

We like our double Electrolux ovens too!

Billy

Hello, I am new to this. I heard that the CC has re done their burners with one 8k and others 25K btu. Has any person tried these out and what are their opinions

I know it's 3 years later, but do you have a 6 year review on this? Heavily debating between this and the BlueStar Platinum 48" rangetop.

Hi Tyler,

I still love the Culinarian cooktop, but I could have been happy with the Bluestar cooktop as well, assuming there are no issues with the Bluestar ignitors and the burners putting out roughly the same BTU. If you are adding griddle or grill options you need to compare those features.

After that it's a matter of aesthetics, and the Bluestar is probably easier to clean up with more cast iron and less exposed stainless steel around the burners.

You are smart to not get the ranges because it seems the range ovens don't have the same performance and quality as standalone ovens, plus you can get separate double wall ovens and install pot drawers under the cooktop...

Good luck!

Billy

I got the 36" Culinarian cooktop 18 months ago, and had struggled with the decision between this and the Bluestar. I've been very happy with the CC. Yes, those burners put out a lot of BTU, and I found a bit of a learning curve when trying to cook over lower temps. Love the 8000 BTU single ring for simmering. Actually could have used 2 of those. I opted for the griddle, and in hindsight, probably would rather have had the two extra burners. I find I have some uneven heat on the griddle. Easy to clean the cooktop. Overall, quite pleased. (Don't skimp on the ventilation--you'll need it to work properly)

Thanks @golfergirl29 and @billy_g . Mine will be 48" so I will have at least 6 burners. My dilemma is the BlueStar Platinum which has the interchangeable grill/griddle/burner combo or the Culinarian with a built-in grill.

At least I know there are 2 great options and I really can't go wrong and planning to buy from Trevor either way. Really the only thing giving me hesitation on the CC is the grates. Our local Grand Appliance has one of each of these (full ranges) and the grates on the CC just seem very uneven. I had a pan that was perfectly flat and it still rocked on 3 of the 4 CC grates but none of the BS. I know it's minor, but rocking pans drive me nuts!

Tyler,

I am glad you are buying from Trevor. He will be able to address any issues that come up, and he knows these products better than anyone.

I haven't noticed a rocking problem on mine -- I bought a huge paella pan that covers four burners at a time -- that is some fun cooking!

The interchangeable combo sounds like a lot of hassle. I wonder if you'll actually do that very often? The truth is we rarely use the built-in grill but it is nice when we do. For a griddle we use a very heavy steel pan that covers two burners and it works great -- and has more surface area at 12x24 than any of the built-in griddles.

Billy

No rocking problems here either. Totally flat. The grates are heavy but easy to clean. Reminds me of the professional rangetop in the family restaurant where I learned to cook. I'm in Maryland, and prefer the outdoor grill 10 months a year. You can't go wrong with either choice.

If you received a range that has the issue you note above i would make sure they were changed out for new ones.

Alright, I've heard enough. I've decided to go with the Capital 48" with 12" grill. I want to keep the grill on all the time and how the BS one sticks up and is not flush with the other grates is a deal breaker. Plus I'll save a few bucks.

Trevor - you'll be getting my call in the next few weeks to get this ordered! Thanks for everyone's feedback.

After a boil over last night and the ensuring half hour cleanup on my current Wolf cooktop just to get the stainless somewhat clean, I so cannot wait for my open burners!

Awesome, Tyler, you will love it! And Trevor will take care of you. There is no one better.

Billy

Glad you made a decision, Tyler, and I think a good one. That boil over would have been much easier to clean on the CC. Enjoy!

Billy, really nice and thorough review. I read it three times.

I am debating getting a 36 inch CC Culinarian (I am hoping to get a 4burner+ grill) vs. 36 inch BS Platinum range top. It will go to my wok kitchen, which is only 7'x8' with a window. We'll have high CFM (probably 1400) external blower range hood there. Do you think the high BTU will heat up the small wok kitchen too much and make it difficult to tolerate? How do you clean your grill? Can you take it off from the range top and clean it in the sink? Thank you.

Hey Shaotung Mommy,

It's a great idea to the get the big blower -- I have a 1400 CFM blower mounted on my roof and it works great. With the blower on it will not heat up your kitchen. Remember to make sure the construction crew avoid sharp turns or too many turns in the blower ductwork. I think I used 10" round duct.

If you have upper cabinets make sure they are set back 3" from the sides of the cooktop, so you will have 36 + 3 + 3 = 42" between your upper cabinets, and your range hood should be 42" wide to catch smoke billowing up from the woks. Also make sure the range hood has adequate depth to catch the smoke and heat from the front burners (woks on the front burner probably will extend past the front edge of the cooktop). Most stock range hoods are too shallow for these powerful cooktops.

The hood height above the floor and cooktop... I used a piece of foamboard to determine how high I wanted mine. Obviously you want it as close to the cooktop as possible but it needs to be high enough to keep you from banging your head. I've had only one person bump their head on the hood. It didn't draw blood but they didn't do it a second time!

The last issue is the make-up air. With a 1400 CFM blower the air has to come from somewhere or it won't be very effective. I was not able to come up with a good make-up air solution so I need to open windows when I turn on the vent fan/blower. It is cold in the winter here near DC, but it will depend on where you are located. I hope you have a window or two in your kitchen, or a doorway to another room where you can open windows.

Enjoy!

Billy

I have a 48 inch, 8 burner, COB488L, dual range by Capital. I am very disappointed and would not recommend this stove. The range was purchased in 2016 and all the extricate starters have to be replaced. The large oven makes a loud metallic sounding bang as it heats up. Only occasionally does the range get a lot of use as there are only 2 of us in my household. The service person I spoke with at Capital was indifferent and rude. Voicing my displeasure in the product he hung up on me. I was polite although I did say I should have gone with wolf/Viking. I still feel that way.

Thank you, Billy, for your input. I really appreciate it. I spoke with Trevor Lawson. He indicated that MUA installation for high CFM hood is a must, not a choice, with window or not. I tend to keep the wok kitchen door closed when I do wok cooking to contain the smell so it does not get to other parts of the house. I think I'll keep the window open most of the time but during winter time, it may not be a preferred thing to do. Another issue is that my GC and appliance rep don't seem to be familiar with MUA or the concept of it. So I'll have to do some homework in order to get them on the same page.

pmastellone, I am so sorry to hear about your experience. That must be so annoying. The forum is full of horror stories about CC or BS ovens. I prefer open burner with very high BTU. That's why I was making my decisions between CC and BS. I think I am getting a Capital range top. A Miele convection oven and a Miele combi stem oven. Hopefully they'll be good to us.

You're in great hands with Trevor. I didn't find anyone who comes close to Trevor in terms of knowing about these products...

I agree that I wouldn't get Capital or BS oven or range; their cooktops are great.

Most residential folks know nothing about MUA - the commercial and restaurant folks know about it.

Here are a few links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PEs09a2AmU

http://www.fantech.net/globalassets/downloads/leaflets/english/e1574-makeup-air-system.pdf

https://www.hvacquick.com/products/residential/Makeup-Air/Residential-Makeup-Air-Fans/AirScape-Residential-Make-up-Air-Unit?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8ID_p-L03AIVEb7ACh3_2Q-kEAMYASAAEgIyB_D_BwE

I read where someone installed a Captive-Air hood in their kitchen; it's a commercial unit that has a built-in make-up air system. I have no idea aboutthe cost!

https://www.captiveaire.com/CATALOGCONTENT/HOODS/SUPPLYPLENUMS/index.ASP

Good places for make-up air venting are in the toekick of cabinets under or near the cooktop, or in the ceiling directly in front of the cooktop, designed so the makeup air forms a "curtain" of air in front of the cooktop.

http://ccbinnovations.com/content/8-about-make-up-air-negative-air-pressure-and-fresh-air-infiltration

Billy

>>Another issue is that my GC and appliance rep don't seem to be familiar with MUA or the concept of it. So I'll have to do some homework in order to get them on the same page.>>

Be sure to check your local permitting dept. Do it yourself, don't depend on your contractors to do it. Some areas are very strict about MUA requirements.

Thank you, Billy. I really appreciate your help.

I went through the info about these different types of MUAs. It seems to me that the ccbinnovations system is what I need: a large diameter conduit to let air in passively with a damper to control the timing. The other systems require a lot more planning and attic space and money... probably is not something I need or getting into. Spoke with Trevor this morning and he also recommended ccbinnovations. I feel more reassured now.

Jakkom Katsu

I'll be sure to check with the local permitting dept. Thank you for the advice. After all, it's me woking/frying/grilling in my wok kitchen, not my GC or the appliance rep. Thank you again for your input.

I purchased a Capital Connoisseurian series dual fuel range (Model COB366) in August 2016. At that time I thankfully also purchased an Extended Service Plan for $1326.00.

Since purchase in August 2016 I have had 3 claims for repair and replaced

control/relay board 3 times

cooling fan 2 times

convection fan

oven light fixtures 2 times

hinges twice

baking inner and outer elements

My Capital Connoisseurian range (purchase price $8305) has worked completely for approximately 1 year in the over 3 years that I have owned it. Repairs have taken months to complete due to back ordered parts and inaccurate ordering. Ever Villanueva from Capital is dismissive and unprofessional. I will never purchase a Capital product again and I would not recommend you do either!

Perhaps I'm an outlier, but I've had one problem after another with my Capital range (6-burners, double ovens, char-broiler). My first one had a design defect that caused the oven gaskets to shred--requiring replacement more than once a year. In addition, the simmer function was unusable despite multiple attempts to adjust it. After 3 years of constant service, my range was replaced by the vendor and I got a brand new one in January 2018. It's now just 2 years later: the oven gaskets have frayed again, and the large oven recently stopped heating altogether--requiring replacement thermostat and igniter. I've been without a functioning large oven for a month. No telling what will happen next. Disappointed to say the least.

All I can say in addition to the above comments (all of which ring true) is that I cannot wait until I can replace my 48" Capital range with a Wolf. When I purchased the Capital, it was "all the rage". Well, I was -- frankly -- stupid to be taken in. Clearly, it takes years if not decades for a manufacturer to work out all the kinks and produce an excellent modern range, and then the manufacturer has to maintain that quality by not subsequently substituting less costly (and inferior) parts and cutting back on the quality of the assembly. As an example of what I mean, think of Wolf vs. what happened to Viking.

Before I purchased my Capital range I actually visited their factory in Southern California. From the perspective of a layman, it certainly looked okay. Moreover, the founder had a great track record as the former founder at Dacor. Their range certainly checked all the boxes in terms of features. What I didn't realize was that, from the "get go", the product had been engineered for profitability over performance. For anyone currently considering a Capital product, I can only provide advice that has proven to be wise for nearly 2,500 years -- "Caveat emptor!"

I know this is an old thread, but in case anyone comes across it I want to present a different view. I've had my 8-burner Capital Culinarian self-cleaning range since 2016. (Probably since 2015, but I received my occupancy permit in early 2016.) It has dual ovens and it has been flawless for me.

If I had to voice a complaint, it's that the finish on the burner rings and grates wears off leaving an uneven appearance, though it doesn't hinder operation at all. No parts have failed and no repairs have been needed.

Cleaning has been easy, probably due to the large sink in my kitchen. I can soak all the parts easily and it's not a complicated design, allowing simple disassembly and reassembly.

I've never used a Wolf, Thermador or Bluestar range, but I have no regrets with this unit.