Well... it IS hard to change people's minds... Dealers have to make money. No retail entity makes much $ when you buy a P5 Broan-Nutone inline motor, build your own sump (air container over the cooking surface), run duct from the outdoors to the inline motor to the custom-built sump, and control the CFM draw with a P57WN Variable Speed Controller. Call it a hood and you're in business and you now can baffle the next buyer with inventive upsell tactics.

David

Check into the Fantech-XL10. We recently went to a parade of home show with homes in the $700,000-$2.5 million dollar range. They had Viking,Broan and GE Monogram hoods,don't know model number or if they were properly installed,but they were all very noisy. Broan sounded like one of the jets at the local Air force base taking off.

Last night I had two woks going at once stir frying a veg. dish and a meat dish with hot chilis and the Fantech handled them both with no problems. Installed CFM is 1066-,1250 CFM before installation. It is quieter on high than the other hoods were on low.

Man, this comes up over and over again, but it still makes me steam!!! davidro and paddy are right on target.

Observation one: your dealer is either 1) an idiot or 2) a crook (more likely). As happens over and over again, so-called "high end" appliance dealers carry ventilation equipment as an afterthought. They have absolutely no interest in anything but getting a bit more of your money. So, of course, they are going to sell what they carry and disparage the competition. Kind of like going to the Chevy dealer and asking what they think about the Ford. Useless.

Two: the notion that a Modern Aire hood (I choose this brand because I own one) is an "lower quality, off brand" is laughable. My MA is a hand built out of 300 series stainless steel. It was custom built to exactly fit my surround, and met specs to the 1/16th of an inch (see if Viking can do that). The baffles are a gorgeous highly polished stainless finish. I have a remotely mounted switch on the wall next to the range, with a light switch for the five halogens, and an infinitely variable speed control for the fan (see if Viking can do that). I had repeated phone and email discussions with Jeff and the staff at Modern Aire during the design and build stages, ensuring I got exactly what I needed (try calling Dacor and asking them for advice on where to locate the duct collar). My liner will kick the $&*% of any Viking or Dacor unit you can find.

Three: "internal blowers are not that loud." ROFL. My inline Fantech FKD 10XL (same as paddy's) is almost silent at full speed. Rather than just describe, I'll point you to my earlier post where I actually measured the decibel output of my Fantech inline, compared to our 600 cfm Vent a Hood at our lake house. The difference is demonstrably huge:

A useful link: vent hoods and noise: the real scoop

Four: inline blower maintenance. My Fantech sits out in the open in our attic. Working on an internal blower means taking the hood apart and pulling the motor out. Which would you rather do?

Five: baffles harder to clean than mesh? OK, here's the drill. Pop baffles out. Put in dishwasher. Wash. Pop baffles back in. Umm, exactly what is easier with mesh?

Six: performance of baffles vs mesh. Go look at every restaurant kitchen you can find. Look under their hood. Hmm, baffles, baffles, baffles...gosh, how come no one has mesh???

OK, more things to consider. That is a gorgeous kitchen in the making. Something that striking and idiosyncratic should have a hood that matches the design vision, not just an off the shelf hood that would look more appropriate. It sounds like you're going with a custom surround, which makes sense, and that's where a liner like my custom PSL would be ideal--again, remember, it's custom built to your exact specs. You don't just have the ability to get the 42'' or the 48'', with the 24'' depth. You want 45.5'' wide, with a 26'' depth, no problem, and at virtually no added cost vs the standard liner. But just in case you're considering an actual hood, here's a pic:

{{gwi:1474631}}

How about copper, or hammered stainless as a finish?

But, if you are doing a custom surround, here's what it will look like inside:

As for the service issue--I can't see why that's a concern. Getting any kind of service might be a challenge given the location, but an inline Fantech blower could be serviced by any HVAC dealer. Fantech is great to deal with (I've called them several times and gotten great, friendly tech support) and they are well known in the HVAC industry for all types of fans (we have a Fantech remote bathroom fan which is equally top notch). The hood itself is just metal. As long as you buy a good one, it should never need service.

So: the short version. Show this thread to your CEO. His dealer is a self serving liar. Find a really good company that makes hoods for a living. Think hard about doing a custom liner that will exactly fit your needs. If you want more information, do yourself a huge favor and call Modern-Aire and ask for Jeff Herman, or email me directly and I'll give you his email.

Oops, embarrassed that I forgot to mention obviously that our backsplash is not in yet under the hood. So no, the naked drywall is not what we're going for.

Wow! Everyone - thank you! David, I had a good laugh at your post - so true! And paddy and clinresga, thank you for the heads up on the Fantech. I looked at their site and the fans look promising!

Clinresga, I love your hood and surround! Gorgeous - even with the naked drywall. I about split my sides reading your response! I think I'll show it to my CEO - maybe with a few edits of comments about the dealer's character! :-) I know our CEO had done a lot of business at this shop, and I don't want him to get defensive!

Our contractor is coming in today (given the property's remote location and lack of telephones, we get to connect once a week about what issues have come up for the project) and I'll have him take a look at this thread.

If we go with a liner & in-line fan set up, we'll run the ducting straight up into the attic, make a turn and run the vent over the screened-in sleeping porch (on the other side of the sink in the photo) and vent it outside through the roof gable. From the top of the liner, I think the duct run will be between 20 - 25 feet with one 90 degree turn. The attic is very spacious and has room for anything.

A couple of follow-up questions based on your good advice -

One - the Modern Aire set up with the Fantech in-line motor sounds great - is there much of a difference between MA, Independent, Prestige, etc. in terms of quality OR price? I am still trying to balance the two. This project has gone over budget already and given the economy, I am not sure how much our CEO is going to want to fork over for the ventilation system.

Two - Since I dont really know how many BTUs our stove has (but I am assuming since it is a restored stove that they are not high-powered burners), do I really need to get a huge in-line fan? The Fantech sites shows that the FKD 10 is about a 910 CFM fan, the 10XL is 1266 CFM, and the 8XL is 836 CFM. The size of the ducting is not an issue for us, but saving money is . . . from what I've read I think we'd be okay with 800 - 900 CFM (or the FDK 10 fan). Is that right?

Three - we are not familiar with silencers. Do they reduce air flow significantly? If so, how much? Do they make a big difference in sound? Would they be worth it, give the location of the blower (in the attic over an outside sleeping porch - which is not quiet as there is a roaring stream outside)? We are most interested in quieting the kitchen area, less worried about any noise along the duct line.

Fourth (and last!) - Our stove is deep - with the connectors, etc, it sits out about 32" from the wall (same depth as our Big Chill refrigerator). See photo below. If we do go with a custom liner and try to sit it about 30" above the stove, it will sit approx. where the bottom of the topmost wooden shelf is above the stove. (See photo in original post.) If we site it 36" above the stove, it will sit approx. where the middle of the light is now. How high and deep should the hood be? We want to make sure it captures as much air/grease as possible, but we also don't want it to be too big or cumbersome. Any advice is helpful!

Thank you everyone for all your suggestions! This is certainly not my area of expertise, and I appreciate all the information - it will be helpful in convincing our CEO which way we should go!

And thank you, clinresga, for the compliment on the kitchen. The photos I've posted, do not come close to doign it justice (e.g. the floors are 1" x 2" variable length clear vertical grain fir and will be refinished to their original beauty.) This whole project has been a labor of love. After the interior painting is done and after the holidays, I'll try to remember to post photos of how far we've come. You should see the bathrooms! :-)

balithai:
definitely, you have to promist to post pix of the final result. Totally different in look from what we've just finished but I love it.

Re your questions:

Pricing of MA vs others: I can't give you hard numbers as once I found the MA liner I did not extensively look at others, but based on a few minutes on the web tonight, I don't think there is an enormous difference. The big difference for me was that for a very minimal custom upcharge, I was able to specify the exact dimensions and layout of my liner.

I agree that you may not need mega-cfm blower for your range. A total guess on my part would be that the 900 cfm FKD10 would work well, especially since you'd still be using the low restriction 10'' ductwork. Still, the price differential between the 10 and the 10XL is not huge, but still, a penny saved...

I love the Fantech LD10 silencer. It's effect is to reduce audible motor noise in the kitchen, and it works extremely well. My 10XL at high has essentially no audible motor sound in my kitchen. It is huge (if memory serves me correctly, 42'' long and about 14'' in diameter) but sounds like that's no problem in your attic either.

Hood sizing is a challenge. Are you using a custom surround? If so, the design of that will impact your decision. I worry that a hood just 30'' over the range that still covers the front burners will project pretty far out, and it may look strange, depending again on the surround. I'd personally favor going 36'' over the range, and compensating by using a deeper hood. Typical hoods are 24'' deep, some companies do a 27'' hood, but at least with MA you should be able to choose a custom depth out to say 30'', which will go a long way towards mitigating the greater distance up to the hood. Still, I'd like to see your plans for a hood surround, or what type of hood you're thinking of if you're not using a surround. More info!

clinresga:

Thanks for all the info and good things to think about. I am glad to hear that you like the Fantech silencer. Our attic should easily be able to accomodate its size. Do you know if they reduce the effective CFM of the blower? (I hope to get off another project today and start calling various companies to figure out what we need).

We will be using a custom surround - truly custom in the sense that our contractor/finisher will make it for us in any fashion we want. We haven't yet settled on a specific design, but it will be made of wood, painted the wall color and we'll probably try to make it "disappear" as much as possible. Ha! Given the nature of this project (restoring a 1920's remote fishing resort - off the grid and way in the middle of nowhere), we are working with a contractor who does beautiful work and can pretty much make anything out of any material. (You should see the cabinets he's made that look like they've always been there, the rock fireplace surround he built that is a deadringer for the 1924 one that came off in the 1970s, etc. He is a true artisan.)

So for the range hood, we are constrained by the location of the refrigerator on the one side, and the size/depth of the range. I believe we will have a maximum of 43-44" for the surround (the stove is 40" wide and sits about 32" off the wall). It sounds like MA might be my first call if they can make a custom liner that is the right width and extra deep.

We did hear back from the stove restorer, and the burners have a total of 72K BTUs (12K each) and the ovens have a total of 40K BTUs (20K each). I still think the FDK10 will work for us if we get to that level of pinching pennies, but we'll have to run the numbers to see!

In another post, I saw you mention that you have a wall control for the blower and lights. Did that come with the MA? Or is it manufactured by another company? Are the blower and light controls on the same unit?

bali: Silencer is quite large bore and I don't think it reduces airflow much. Fantech could likely give you specs but I have not found it to be an issue.

Can't wait to see what you do with the surround. I'm envious that you have such a great contractor.

Given your size I think your nuts if you don't use a custom sized hood and liner. The sizes you're listing are not even close to standard off the shelf units and I can't see compromising the look or the performance of the hood just to match an off the shelf unit. MA would be great in their ability to exactly match what you want.

I do think that the FKD10 would suffice. One standard recommendation from Wolf is 1 cfm for every 100 BTU/hr, which means that you'd want at least 720 cfm. However, higher cfm would guarantee performance even with a silencer and a moderate duct run, and would also cover any additional heat generated by the ovens. Remember you can always run a 10XL at less than full speed, but you can't do the reverse with the smaller blower, and in the global scope of your project the cost difference is vanishingly small.

Wall control is one of my favorite features. It's a standard choice with MA. It just means that the wiring for the lights, and for the blower, are run to a wall switch by your electrician. MA sells a rheostat to control the blower speed, and the lights go on a dimmer. Infinitely variable speed control is great (we had it just barely running last night while we simmered chicken soup).

The Fantech FKD XL10 is rated at 1065 CFM after installation of the silencer and two 90* turns. I was just experimenting with mine and at its lowest speed it will hold a sheet of printer paper against the filters.

clinresga & paddy99:

Our contractor IS incredible. This project would never have come to be without his talent, creativity and ability to problem-solve some terrific problems!

I'll give a call to MA tomorrow and see what they think this kind of system will cost. I'll post here what they recommend. . .

And thank you, paddy, for the info on how a silencer and two 90 degree turns will affect the FDK XL10. And I am in awe that low on your system will hold a piece of paper against the filters! I am getting ventilation-envy! My home system is an antique Broan . . . now I am really looking forward to re-doing my own kitchen in a few years (c'mon economy!).

Well I called and talked to Jeff at MA yesterday - and you are so right, clinresga, he was VERY helpful. I just ran it by our CEO and he bought off on the idea of a custom hood (a MA PSL liner, 42" x 27.5" - to be confirmed later today - because of the extra-depth of our stove), Fantech FDK 10XL (Jeff recommended we get the XL for the small difference in money), the LD10 silencer, & a backdraft damper. He suggested we buy the Fantech from an independent vendor (although they sell them) since they were cheaper. And that advice helped my CEO feel better about the greater-than-budgeted cost.

Probably the best part for us, is that even though the hood is custom, Jeff thinks it will be here in about 2 weeks. Great!

Sorry to be such a pest, but one last question for clinresga and anyone else who has a wall-control: What kind do you have, and does anyone have a single wall control unit that controls both the variable speed blower and the dimmable lights? Jeff suggested two separate controls, but if we can get a single unit, that would be great.

Thank you everyone for all your good advice and help!

Oh also, we learned that with the extra deep liner we are ordering, there will be lights on both the back and the front. That will really help since the lighting in this old kitchen leaves much to be desired (another post someday, maybe)!

balithai: we ended up using a different fan speed control which was small enough to fit into a standard dual-switch box (I don't know the right term but it's mounted like you would two light swtches behind a single wall plate). It's not the Fantech speed controller and I'm a bit nervous about that but my electrician assures me that it is adequate for the blower, so we end up with one wall plate with the fan control and a single dimmable light switch to control lighting (and I'd definitely recommend the dimmer on the lights too).

Jeff is great, and I love the dual front/back lighting. That's the kind of hood you can only get with a custom manufacturer--extra depth, extra lighting etc.

Jeff also offered to let me source the Fantech, but I was in a huge time crunch and ended up just telling him to send it all to me. Probably could have saved maybe $2-300 in shipping and costs but the hassles of ensuring I ordered the right damper, duct collar, etc made me too nervous. If you have the time and expertise though it's definitely a way to save.

Totally OT: I was amused to find most online sources of Fantech blowers are hydroponic suppliers who mainly support growers of "not for consumption, medicinal purposes only" crops.

Clinresga~

Thank you so much for all of your help. Our contractor was back down again today and took all of the information Jeff sent my way. Now I am playing phone tag with Jeff to order the liner, but it looks like we are good to go. Do you happen to know which brand/model you have for the fan/light control? Jeff indicated we could buy one pretty much anywhere as long as it was rated for the load, but I'm not sure where to look for a combined fan/light control (one wall plate, two controls).

And I agree, it is amusing to see the sources of some of our products! Thank you again for all your help!

bali: I don't nkow the model as it's behind the wall plate. It's just a standard rheostat that is rated for enough amperage to cover the blower. I suspect any electrician could spec that for you.

I think to clarify, you don't need a special dual control. The fan speed rheostat is a standard sized unit that looks just like a dimmer switch you'd use to control a lamp. It fits into a single gang outlet box. Then all you do is put a standard single gang dimmer switch for the lights next to it in a dual outlet box and cover that with a dual switch wall plate. Does that make sense?