Stooxie, missed your question. The igniter is a possble limit. But that would apply to all burners anyway.

wekick and FOAS, I showed vids and pix of the CC simmering in a large vessel a few months ago. Back then it was "ok, so it simmers in a large pot, what about a small?" Now it's "ok, it simmers in a small pot what about a large?" It just keeps going back and forth. When any owner says or shows they can simmer, they're called liars. It's worse than politics. Yes, there are CC owners who have trouble simmering. Once calibrated, most have at least an acceptable simmer, at least judging by what follow-ups there are. While the CC may not have the lowest simmer, it's certainly not as bad as some non-owners insist it is. I for one was fortunate enough to see all the ranges I was considering live, so I know what the ranges can do.

That's why the best advise I can give, as reiterated by BFF, is for buyers to go see for themselves and be their own judge.

Oh and FOAS, I totally agree with you. I'd also love to see videos and or photos of the simmering on all BS burners, especially the large one.

Sorry jscout - I'm not as regular of a reader as I used to be and must have missed the bigger pan. Don't mind me!

No worries, FOAS. I'm not as regular of a reader as I used to be either.

jscout, thanks for posting that. It would seem that Capital would do themselves a favor to service the range upon installation like BS does. It is a great thing to have a range you love whatever it is.

I was about to write a comment on my thoughts regarding alex's post claiming a 22k bs burner can simmer as low as a cc. I was all prepared to write that in my opinion that wouldn't be the case, because although I understand and buy his argument about the number of ports or "birthday candles" there are also issues such as how close the ignitors are placed to the flame, the spark module etc. I was going to say that the 22k bs burner probably has the possibilty of going as low maybe with some mods to the ignitors and such but then just last night this is what I saw....

My wife was boiling a very small amount of noodles in a very small pot (tri-ply calphalon)that she was going to add to our individual bowls of beef soup ( we prefer to add the noodles after soup is cooked). She used the big burner to heat the water to a boil then she added the noodles and after it started boiling again she turned it to simmer. I was doing my own thing preparing the other parts of the meal as I walked by the pot and was taken back at what I saw. I actually stopped in my tracks and reversed a bit to take a second look because I noticed that the pot was simmering without any bubbling what so ever. There was just a very small amount of steam comming off the water. I turned the heat back up and within seconds it returned to a rolling boil.

So I guess my point is alex may be correct in that a properly adjusted 22k burner on bs may come close to a cc for simmer if carefully adjusted.

Unfortunately I didn't have any kind of recording device with me to make a video, but I do have this older pic of the burner on low. If you notice there are about two ports in this picture where the flame is not lit at the moment the pic was taken. The flames dance around a bit, I also will get the occasional clicking if winds run across the top of the burner, very similar in nature to what I have heard others descibe here with their cc's set very low.

I will try and post a video at some point if I find the time.

jscout, THANK YOU so much for the videos and the commentary. I was having some doubts about the capabilities of the CC, and you've put my mind at ease.

Wife just made a hollandaise yesterday on the CC & had no problems with breakage. Achieving simmer is not an issue - if you wish to simmer all day then I suggest a french top.

SIMMER, SIMMER, SIMMER...

First, I would like to thank all the GW contributors of kitchen/appliance forums. All the previous posts helped me with my purchase. It would only be fair to contribute my experiences and observations with my Capital Culinarian 48"( 6burner+grill) and capital single wall oven.
I received the range and observed the clicking with simmering. I live in the Hudson Valley area of NY. Applicare was notified and tech was in my home within 7days, excellent service! Trevor from Eurostoves and Bob from Capital Customer Svc worked with me on this issue.
I was even more excited to test the simmer feature. I simmered for 9 1/2 hours an AllClad 8QT pot, a LeCreuset 6.75 dutch pot, a Tramontina 6.5 dutch pot all filled with water.
After 9 1/2hrs AllClad had no bubbles, just a bit of steam and 4qts of water left in the pot. LeCreuset and Tramontina had few bubbles and 3qts of water left.
I looked at Wolf, American Range and BlueStar. For me, I was looking for a range that had all the must have's: high btu, grill, rotisserie. The GW forum help me decide open burners over sealed. Look for something that suits your needs. Will you really be cooking, or will this be a showpiece. Good luck with your purchase. Martha

Look for something that suits your needs. Will you really be cooking, or will this be a showpiece.

This is the key. The more you can match what you buy to your needs, the greater utility you will have.
While high BTUs are the main priority for some, others need the really low simmer. Simmering water is much different than simmering split pea soup, apple butter or tomato sauce, which is what I am likely to be simmering.

Showpieces,whatever brand or price appear in kitchens where there was no or minimal rational thought given to the utility of the appliance in relation to how you cook.

Ladies and Gentlemen, WE HAVE SIMMER!

The guy came a couple of days ago and did the knobs-off screwdriver thing that I'm sure we've all seen. The simmer is now beautiful. I'm not sure what the best test is that would demonstrate how good/bad the simmer is. I don't make delicate sauces but I DO appreciate the ability to melt butter without its getting brown right away, to scramble eggs slowly, and to have a vat of spaghetti sauce on for over an hour without constant supervision.

This is the 48" range top with six burners and grill. The grill works great too!

Looking at RANGETOPS. 48" with griddle. I have read EVERY thread regarding BS and CC. I have pricing from AJ Madison since there is no one within a 250 sq mile radius with either. The BS is 4k the CC is 3800...good or bad?
The sales person at AJ told me the CC has a totally new Simmer burner for 2013 and that we will have it...Is this true or is it the same? Wife definitely wants a low simmer but also wants the power.
Which one is easier to clean and work on as I will probably be the one working on it. Remember this is not a full range just a top. I've also read the griddle is more even on the CC. True or False?
I appreciate the input!

If you want to buy a CC online, buy it from Trevor at EuroStoves, not AJM. I have nothing against AJM, but Trevor is in a whole different league when it comes to customer service.

It is true that ALL culinarian ranges and rangetops produced after the 2nd of Jan 2013 will have a "Small Pan Burner".

Unless you tell who you buy it from to make sure the one you get is made after the 2nd it will not come with one.

Thank you Peter very kind comment.

Trevor

Is this small pan burner something that can be retro-fitted into an existing CC range? I have a CC that has sat unused due to house renovation, so I don't know if I'll even have a "simmer problem" because I have not started to cook on it yet. But I'd like to know what my options are if I do experience an issue. Thanks!

Just to pile on the glowing Trevor comments - I didn't buy my CC from Trevor but he walked me through adjusting the range when I was dialing it in for my specific needs. My dealer didn't have any idea of what I was talking about.

A very kind, patient man and very generous with his time.

(Next time, if he's selling what I'm buying, he gets the sale.)

Doc

Trevor, my man,

Can you expound on the "Small Pan Burner"?

Is it a different burner with smaller/fewer ports or just the same old Capital burner de-rated with a smaller orifice so it can simmer but which also must forgo the 23,000 on the top end?

Is it a heat plate/diffuser?

Is the same burner raised or lowered?

"Small Pan Burner" exudes marketing trickery to me.

And I'm telling you, right here, nothing upsets my applecart more than verbose marketing trickery.

The new Small Pan Burner will be the same as the original 23k burner but with only the center circle with holes.

Call it what they will....... was it market trickery or just trying to be original and different, who knows and who really cares.

THE CC HAS A SIMMER BURNER......

"THE CC HAS A SIMMER BURNER......"

That's an interesting statement Trevor, as Capital, along with yourself, have proclaimed since the inception of the Culinarian, that the 23,000 BTU burner was also a true simmer burner.

It's exactly what I said, man, marketing malarky. "Small Pan Burner" instead of "Simmer Burner."

It's most beateous marketing wording on their end.

The 23,000 BTU burner, by most accounts on this website, can't hold a true simmer, so Capital is calling this simmer burner a "Small Pan Burner" as to not make all the proclamations about the other burner seem incongruous or outright false, so they spun it into a "Small Pan Burner."

I will; however, give Capital credit on a capital misdirection.

I actually like the phase "small pan burner" to me, it makes more sense- you do turn it up after all, at least some times, and for smaller pans it's perfect.

Simmer is relative- a large pan with quarts of liquid will simmer fine on a large burner that's turned down. The problem was always small pan use and delicate simmers for smaller amounts.

I'm glad they did this. And I would also recommend Trevor.

I am getting a CC soon (I know, after all the problems I had with my Precision I'm still giving Capital another chance) that's supposed to arrive next month, but I'm not sure if it'll have the new "small pan" or whatever you want to call it burner. Given that I'm adding quite a bit of money to go to the Culinarian, so I really hope they include it, or at least send it forth when it's available.

I know this is an old question, but I just have to answer it. The simmer is magnificent. I had some excess gravy cooking on the stove and instead of turning it off, I turned it to simmer accidentally.

I proceeded to serve and eat a large meal with tons of friends, drinking wine and generally doing what one does with a dinner party for a couple hours. I went to the kitchen to get cleaning, and noticed my big pot was still on. I freaked out and grabbed it off, expecting a burnt mess, but the gravy had just become thicker and had not burnt. Very good simmer, best I have used.

"The 23,000 BTU burner, by most accounts on this website, can't hold a true simmer"

There are at least 3 posts, just in this one here thread, that says the Capital can INDEED simmer (I'm not going to get into what is a True Simmer") but the 3 folks that posted are happy and That's What Counts!!!

Are you doing "Selective Reading" beefstew01, or did you just miss those posts?

I suspect the Capital will simmer just about as well as any gas range, that is not using a "specific simmer burner", yea you can turn those way down low, like my induction, but what's the point of keeping something at 112 F for 8 or 9 hours, heck they do that in Arizona without even a cooktop or range!

Gary

building_a_house,

I'll weigh in as the owner of a 48 inch CC rangetop with a grill, using it for about 17 months now.

I had some difficulty with the simmer, even after a couple of technician visits and my own adjustments. With all of the burner ports physics dictates that it will likely simmer hotter than your old stove, so you'll just have to get used to it. On the other hand, you will have so much fun cooking on it that you might not notice!

Last weekend a foodie friend from New Orleans visted and we made Chicken Fricassee, Shrimp Sauce Piquant, Sausage and Chicken Jambalaya, Stir Fried Green Beans (blackened), and Grilled Asparagus (on the CC grill). He was blown away by the capabilities of the burners.

I am also the guy who modified one of the burners to be a simmer burner by plugging the outer two rings of burner holes with high temperature muffler putty and swapping out the orifice. It works like a charm and it's likely what you'll get with the new CC "Small Pot Burner." One ultra-low simmer burner out of six works just fine for me, and you can turn that burner on high and it will cook hotter than most of the burners out there on "regular stoves," in part because the open burner configuration puts the heat directly on the pan.

So what would I buy now if I had it to do over -- at least in terms of rangetops because I cannot comment on the ovens in the range? I might go with a Bluestar, but not because of any difference in the BS and CC burners. I really like the curved SS front edge on the CC compared to the angular industrial look of the BS. However, I think the BS cast iron burner bowls readily beat the CC bowls with exposed stainless steel that you have to clean more often and with more difficulty than the BS cast iron. I also like the fact you can rotate the BS grates to raise the pots above the burner, and you cannot do this with the CC. The ability to turn the BS grate is a functional consideration (but I wonder how often BS owners do this?) The BS cast iron burner bowls is both a functional and aesthetic consideration.

One things is for certain -- you will be much better off and get far better service by ordering your appliances from Trevor. I'm not aware of anyone in the country who will give you better service than Trevor -- and this includes the Capital factory that I visited in person -- and this is important because your satisfaction with your purchase may hinge on the quality and responsiveness of the service you receive for your appliance. The reason I know this is I purchased my appliances locally but nevertheless Trevor reached out and helped me when I had problems, and he accomplished things that several different technicians could not do, even though they had telephone and printed guidance directly from the CC factory.

Good luck and enjoy your purchase!

Billy

Great posts DCKelly and Billy. Thank you.

I have a new culinarian that I think has too hot a simmer. From what I read above, the temp should be at 140 at the simmer setting, if it is installed/adjusted correctly. How do you get this temp reading? I have a ThermaPen that I suppose would be good to use, but where do you measure the temp?

The 140 degrees is a measurement of water after simmering for 5 hours

Thanks. But wouldn't it matter how much water? Obviously, a small amount of water would be hotter after heating for 5 hours than many gallons. In any case, I tried putting a medium saucepan with maybe a quart of water on low simmer on my culinarian, and it was at 190 degrees after about 15 minutes. So it sounds like I need to have it adjusted.

MrDaveT--you are right, of course it matters how much water and, also, the size of the vessel.

Classic @trevorlawson misdirection.

Let common sense dictate.

Do you want to make a handsome spaghetti sauce? Well, can you take two quarts of whole canned tomatoes (w/spices and a lot of garlic of course) and simmer it for hours without the bottom burning?

Can you reheat a gorgeous Italian wedding soup without a furious boil rendering it hopeless?

What do you do, man?

MrDaveT, Burners are rated in BTUs. Most manufactures will give the high and low end. Capital likes to give the high end, which they feel is their strength, in BTUs but uses temperature for the low end which may be their weakness. No way to compare that way. The temp will vary tremendously depending on the size, heat conductivity and shape of the cooking vessel as well as what is cooking and its volume. Most owners do report they are happy with their adjustments though but as above, some have modified the burner. They are coming out with a smaller burner. If you need it to be lower than what they can get it, check out a simmer mat, which has little bumps to put some air between the pot and heat or solid copper simmer plate.

Here is a link that might be useful: simmer mat

The simmer matt doesn't work on these burners. We've tried this version and a couple of others. Heat (or I should say hot air) rises no matter what you put between the burners and the pan, and because these burners heat so evenly (including the center of the pan) the heat is transferred to the pan. They do work on sealed burners by directing more heat outward around the sides of the pot.

Get the adjustments made correctly and/or get a simmer burner if you want to simmer really really low.

Billy

QUESTIONS.......... How do you get this temp reading?

ALL manufacturers use the same test. A pan provided and approved by UL laboratories, 1 gallon of water, boiled then allowed to simmer for 5 hours.

I did not design the test nor did i supply the pan, simply answering the question put forward by Mr Dave

I live in Vancouver, Canada. I have a new 36" CC rangetop. I also would like to get my simmer adjusted. I feel it's too hot. Also, one of my igniters stopped working after a week. It's been two weeks and I'm still waiting for a service technician to come. My local dealer said he called the office in California three times already buy I haven't heard from them yet. When they do come, is it possible to have the small pot burner retrofitted on one of my burners. That certainly would come in handy for some of my smaller pans. Should I be calling Capital directly in California?

Call them directly..

Thanks Trevor....wish Canadian customers had access to your service.

They adjusted my burners, but they still won't go low enough to be a true simmer. If they try to lower them too much, they just make a horrendous clicking sound.
There was supposed to be a fix last October and I haven't heard from anyone about the retrofit.
There's now way with an inner and outer burner that you could get a true simmer.
Other than that, I am very happy with the burners. They're very well built and very powerful. The range top Is beautifully made - much better quality burners and parts, than my old Wolf range. My contractor said it was the best looking of any of these range tops he's seen.
Another problem I'm having with mine is that the griddle is unbelievable uneven. If I cook pancakes, the parts near the middle of the griddle are cooked, while the part of the pancakes near the outer edge of the griddle are uncooked. I'd like to know if they can fix this. The Wolf griddle worked better. If they could fix these problems, it would be the best range top on the market.

"You can do that??? I simmer my stocks on any burner on my DCS. If I put the pot anywhere near my lab, she'd eat it long before it was reduced."

To say nothing of straining out the lab hair.

Had a lab that ate a whole pound of butter that was softening on the counter (all 4 sticks).

A lot of bathroom trips followed.

With a normal body temp of 101.3F if you are reducing anything you have a VERY sick dog.

This post was edited by brickeyee on Wed, Mar 13, 13 at 11:12

I ordered a CC from Trevor in summer 2010. The original specs were 4 23k burners and 2 9k burners. When production specs were finalized, it was all 23k burners.

After 2 and a 1/2 years, it's a nice range. It's not a 30-35 k btu restaurant stove (we opted to not install a restaurant-grade fire-suppression surround, so we went with the highest-heat residential-fire-code stove).

The CC does not heat water nearly as fast as an induction system, not even close.

But overall, the CC is really fun to cook on. Not my dream stove, but I didn't focus hard enough on what I wanted.

Our CC is a 48-incher, 6 burners plus grill.

For stir-fry, we go go to our 30k btu Camp Chef hunting-party stove. I can see where a 100k btu jet would be fabulous, but 30k is good enough. It turns the bottom of the 16-in wok glowing red.

We ordered the CC with big (convection/self-clean) and small ovens. We have Wolf L 30-inch double ovens, too. We mostly use the Wolfs. For broiling fritattas, the CC is superior, because you can leave the door open, with the plastic skillet handle hanging out, Wolf requires the oven door to be shut for the broiler to work.

Using oven thermometers, both the CC main oven and Wolf provide accurate temps.

I tried to do dry-airflow vacuum-packed sous vide chuck steak in the Wolf, under the "Convection" ("drying") mode for 24 hours. It was fine at the low-end, per a thermometer, but it could not do 125-138, even with "digital-exactiude temperature" management.

The steak turned out tender, but a little over-cooked for what I wanted. Drat! I have to buy an expensive water sous-vide warmer to tenderize a chuck steak and have it medium rare at 130 degrees.

I also have a Wolf warming drawer. It's good for temps 100-130. But still, when I want to make sourdough bread, I go to the incadescent-bulb heat-lamp in the basement to do 85 degrees to make the culture produce "San Francisco sourdough" bread.

For fine-heat adjustments on the CC, you can try a heat diffuser--a copper plate is good--you can double-stack grates, or use a combo. Use a ThermoPen to see if you have the temp you want. If it doesn't work, try a Bain-Marie. Try a copper plate, a screen on top, and a copper plate on top of it. Use a pot with water, a ThermoPen, and test range settings. I think you can get whatever temp you want. It's a bit cumberson, but your recipes are cumberson. Figuring out your heat stacks is part of solving the problem.

My personal preference is to condense flavors using a room-temp vacuum pump and bell jar. Remove the water, concentrate the flavor.

Wow, you're clearly a more experienced chef than me.

I also have a six burner CC stove with grill, and a CC double oven from Trevor.

Can you answer some questions?

Why do you want a wok any hotter than the CC can get it? I have a nice carbon steel wok and the wok grate for my cc, and I find the cc gets the wok crazy hot. I'm not all that experienced doing stir fry on the cc, but I can't imagine what I would want with more heat. As it is, I sometime havea hard time avoiding burning things.

Do you have the Rotisserie for your cc? I live it! Just made rotisserie chicken last night. Te only issue is that the screws keep loosening and the chickens can flop on the spit.

What do you like better about the wolf ovens? I find the cc to be great, although the "user interface" on the cc oven is very awkward.

I'm very disappointed with my CC.
First 4 of the 6 burners were clicking with the simmer.
The technician came out to fix that... but now, when I'm simmering my stock - it's a super rolling boil!
My rice regularly boils over at a simmer, and even the so called simmer burner does that. (It used to boil over even with the clicking). I guess I have to call the technician again... this time to lower the simmer... and hopefully i won't be dealing with the clicking again. No... I don't imagine he's going to have 5 hours to boil water to get it fixed accurately. ugh.
what are the "simmer plates" people are talking about? maybe i'll try that.

Yup... Even on the newly installed "simmer burner" - my bone broth is still at a rolling boil at the lowest setting.
I'm at my wit's end with this stove. I cannot simmer anything. Hopefully the technician will fix the problem, but I'm not too optimistic that it is fixable... I'll just get the clicking back. I put the thermometer into my soup... it's reading at 200 deg... (and it's been "simmering" for over 6 hours).
My husband thinks they fixed the simmer clicking problem by just raising the simmer point of all the burners.

For what it's worth, I can get a decent simmer after my stove was adjusted. I don't have the simmer burners yet either. (When did they come out?). My stove probably still doesn't get as low as you'd want it for some things, but I can do things like melt butter without burning it, simmer tomato sauce for hours, etc...

my fingers crossed! calling technician today. will keep you posted
You should be able to call them to retrofit the simmer burner btw. just came out recently. it is the same as others, with one ring of holes instead of three.. just the inner ring. but flame on that ring comes out at same strength.

Just installed ours with the small pot burner and so far very pleased.

In our case the new technician fixed the clicking problem, but was unable to properly adjust the small pot simmer burner with two visits. He's contacting the company and is going to come back.

The rotisserie broiler gets too hot (bird gets burnt), and he's going to look into adjusting that too.

Shabmerch ...... What are you doing with the bird to burn it prior to cooking ?

My husband did it, and I believe he tried the recipe off the capital culinarian website:
http://capital-culinarian.com/Eurostoves_Capital_Culinarian/Chicken.html
Maybe a recipe with no cider vinegar or no type of sweet marinade would work better. Going to try that next time. But it would be nice to be able to adjust the heat and work with some sweet marinades. Want to try the duck recipe on their website, but am a bit wary...

Birds that have been marinated or had oil applied to the skin do have a darker / burnt finish, they sugar and oil tend to burn the skin somewhat. Normally we only put salt and pepper on the skin and it comes out perfectly golden brown with a little crispy finis.

The duck wasn't marinated so you wont have a burning problem.

Will try that then!

Our Culinarian now in use for over 3 years here in Northwestern Connecticut. Purchased from Trevor. When new, the igniters did a lot of clicking when at the simmer setting. The service tech came out and fixed that. The problem was that the igniters were not properly aligned with the gas jet behind the igniter. I asked him to lower the simmer as far as possible.

I knew about the simmer complaints before purchasing, I decided the large burners were more important to me than simmer. I decided to deal with that issues by purchasing a simmer plate. So far, I've never had to use it so I guess the service tech did a good job with the adjustment.

Mine is freaking awsum. I use another grate on top to bring heat away from pot SImmers well in that configuration. My impression is that high heat trumps simmer when u bring pot away from heat. Very ez