Talk to me about induction vs gas

10 years ago

I realise this subject has no doubt received a lot of attention in this forum, so forgive me for retreading old ground. However, I've recently had the chance to cook a few times on an induction cooktop (a gaggenau CI 262) and am trying to decide if I will go induction or gas for my new kitchen. I'd get a 90" gaggenau, so either the CI 491 induction or VG 295 gas. I'm hoping to be able to cook on a gaggenau gas cooktop to compare like to like, but want to hear from people in here what they think the pros and cons of each are. My thoughts so far:

Induction pros:
Easy to clean
Safer for small children (of which I have two)
More energy efficient
Cons:
Cookware size must be matched to size of burner
Sides of cookware don't get hot, so you somewhat lose the benefit of the extra heat conductivity of clad cookware
Any warping in your cookware renders that cookware a bit useless on an induction cooktop
More expensive to repair?

Gas pros:
Seems to heat the pan more (all the way to the edge of the bottom and up the sides)
Don't have to match pan size to burner as much
Cons:
Harder to clean
Open flames around kids

So far the main thing having me lean towards induction is the ease of cleaning, but my gut tells me that I like cooking with gas better. Mind you, I've only cooked on induction twice. Will it grow on me?

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Comments (18)

deeageaux
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Induction is more mechanically efficient but gas is cheaper to operate because natural gas is so much cheaper. But the difference is nominal. Which is better for the environment is highly debatable. Unless your induction is either solar or coal powered.

Induction is easier to clean but by how much depends on which gas cooktop/rangetop you are talking about and if you are OCD about it. If you have a solid enameled cast iron rangetop like Bluestar or almost solid enameled cast iron rangetop like the Capital Culinarian it can develop a beautiful black patina. I don't clean every drop of grease that lands on my Culinarian grates. I remove and replace the aluminum foil in the drip tray once a year.

Gas cooktops are a mature technology and are simple to fix. Worst case scenario you use a match to light.

Induction hob goes out it can be expensive to repair. Cost and durability of current induction hobs unknown. History of consumer electronics is not that they get cheaper AND more reliable.

Some induction owners report "buzz" sound when on.

Induction is not safer than gas. Below is a post made by GW poster John Liu about the saftey of gas vs induction hobs and wall vs range ovens.

-----------------------------------------------------------

"I have toddlers, so I need a high wall oven".

"Because of my babies, I won't consider a gas range".

"I'm getting induction because I care about my childrens' safety."

Does any of this sound familiar? I see these sentiments occasionally here on KF. They are expressed by younger parents who have very young children, or are planning to start families.

Oddly enough, I seldom (actually, can't specifically recall ever) hear these concerns from older parents who have actually raised children.

Humans learn from experience, so you'd expect the loudest warnings against ranges and gas burners to come from those with . . . experience. Why don't we?

I decided to go looking for data. Here is an interesting article, "Kitchen Scalds and Thermal Burns in Children Five Years and Younger", that was published in Pediatrics, Jan 2005.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/115/1/10

The scientists examined the records of all kitchen thermal burns that resulted in a child's visit to a statistical sample of 100 emergency departments nationwide, over a period of five years, 1997-2002. They looked at all cooking-related thermal injuries, excluding accidents where a child pulled on an electrical appliance's cord and was injured by the toaster, coffee maker, etc and/or its contents.

The main findings were:
- Scalds from hot liquid were the main cause of burns serious enough for an ER room visit (was 2/3rd of the cases), and are the dominant cause of hospitalizations.
- Burns from touching hot pots or other surfaces were less common (was 1/3rd of the cases), and seldom resulted in hospitalization. Most burns were from touching a hot pot.
- There were 7 total injury patterns: (1) reached up and pulled down pot from stove or other elevated surface; (2) grabbed, overturned, or spilled pot onto self; (3) collided with pot or with person holding pot; (4) put hands into pot; (5) pot contents splashed onto child; (6) other; and (7) unknown. (1) (2) and (5) were the most common, accounting for about 50% of all the injuries. (6) and (7) were less than 10%.
- Boys were more likely to climb up on counters and spill pots on themselves. Girls were more likely to have hot liquids splashed on them.

Note what was not a significant pattern of injury requiring a hospital visit: chidren touching a hot oven door, chidren holding their hands in a gas flame, children turning on a gas burner and blowing themselves up. I can't say these accidents never happen, but if they do, it is so rare as to not show up in the data.

Here's my take on this. Your concern for the safety of your children, both born and unborn, should have essentially nothing to do with what kind of range, cooktop, or wall oven you choose. Whether the pot is on a gas flame or an induction hob really makes no difference to your child's risk of being scalded or burned, whether the knobs are on the front or the top makes no difference, and whether the pan is in a range oven or a wall oven also makes no difference. It isn't the appliance! that is the threat to your child. They all do the same thing: get pots and pans, and their contents, very hot. The threat is the pots and pans and the food in them.

Take care to keep pots on the back burners, handles turned in. Have landing space to set hot pots away from counter edges. Design your kitchen so you don't have to criss-cross the room carrying pots of hot liquid (unlike a couple of kitchens recently discussed here). Supervise your children and watch where you're walking. That is what is important, not your appliance selection.

From a father whose two kids have reached 11 y/o and 14 y/o without any kitchen accidents, despite having grown up in some awfully dodgy kitchens!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cavimum
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
One advantage to gas over induction is if you are in an extended electrical power failure. In that situation, you can always cook with gas (I am presuming there are no electrical ignitions) and heat water. If you live in a cold winter/snow zone climate, it is worth considering. Only you can know how often that happens, or the likelihood, and if you would be severely affected.
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Olchik, I recently posted a similar query. Those ceramic Jennair cooktops are horrid, aren't they? It makes you really want to go overboard to make sure that the next cooktop has all the power and control you'll ever want! I had my heart set on gas as well, until I started reading up on induction here, and then I was all in a muddle. In the end, to help me make up my mind, I bought a 1.8 KW induction burner, which is about the same power as the smallest burner on many full sized induction cooktops. It's also the most kw's you can plug into a normal sized outlet--I wanted to give induction a fair shot, so I wanted to get the most power available without spending money to wire it. I put it right on the countertop next to the Jennair and started using it for everyday cooking. A demo somewhere is nice, but using it for your own everyday cooking is a much better trial, IMHO. Have fun, Cj
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In Canada, Costco sells the Bluestars for just over $2000 ($Can). On this side of the border, it is the NXR (the one that Nunyabiz has) that Costco sells for a little under $2000 ($US). The choice between gas and induction is something that has been (and, here, it still is) being discussed. To me, it comes down to picking trade-offs. I see the advantages of both the NXR/BlueStars and induction ranges, and go back and forth on all of them. For me, picking a stove comes down to a mix of trade-offs, one of them being budgetary. The induction stove that most appeals to me is the Viking induction range. (You've seen Luv2putt's long thread on his racing red induction rnage?) I really like the set-up, the ability to get it with colors, the knob controls down front, the wide-open cooking surface. But, the cost strikes me as absurd. I likewise find the Wolf AG & DF stoves very appealing but the price puts my wallet into constricting budgetary spasm. Nunyabiz makes an interesting point about energy costs. I can say that the energy savings trade-off is variable by region as well as by how much cooking and what kind of cooking you do. Right now, and for the next few years, at least, natural gas prices are low. That may or may not translate into operating cost saving. If you feel like you have not yet done enough research, yet-- ;>) --- check out the link below. When I say that the savings are highly variable, I am speaking about direct experience in my small mountain community. I live in town where utlities are supplied by a regional corporate utility of some size. I do a lot of cooking, so gas will have some cost advantage for me. Using the calculator from the linked site below, with electrical rates here being are a little over $0.10//kwh, I guestimated that a gas stove would save me about $60 per year over an electrical one. Folks a couple of miles away in the county, served by a rural electrical coop (which is economically raped by deregulation and Enron type manipulations that our legislature foolishly thought would be "competition") have been suffering with in the $0.27 to $0.49/kwh range. They will have an entirely different persepctive on the gas vs electricity thing. I like the Bluestar/NXR type of stove's wide-open cook-space on top and the ability to put an array of big pots and being able to put any pot anywhere. (I do six large events here plus holiday dinners for crowds so I find the wide space appealing and useful where it might not matter to others.) You can get something like that with the induction slide-ins (specifically the GE that alkvdb is considering and the Electrolux/Kenmores that stuck-out too far), but the cook-tops project out on the sides. This can make for issues of fitting and supporting the edges, and may add to the expense of putting in a new stove. (How's that for looping back to the original question?) All of the foregoing being said, I'm still very interested in induction. The paper-trick mentioned by herring_maven is a minor but appealing aspect of the easier clean up of induction. For me, the "cleaning" appeal of induction is not so much stove-top cleaning but that gas produces more vaporous goo which means more and more frequent cleaning of the range hood, the walls, cabinets and etc. Another appealing factor for me, living and cooking at an altitude of 6000 feet, is that electrical stoves are not affected by altitude the way gas stoves are. All of the considerations go into a mix that can make one's head trying to sort out all the choices. A friend of mine said she was thinking of just buying buy a Vita-Mix blender, making smooties out of raw food, and just skipping "the whole stove thing." Here is a link that might be useful: Info on guestimating electrical vs. gas appliance operating costs
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The comments about ten-power settings got me musing on the subject and about Amy's initial question about logarithmic power controls. Here's where that lead me. Nobody really has logarithmic power controls, but there can be power settings spaced to sort of approximate a logarithmic curve -- a number of settings at the low end with only a couple of additional points needed to define the steep side of the curve for really high heat. In theory, that can be done with a ten-step power curve and some folks do find 10 power settings fine for what and how they cook. Others do not. Is anybody else here old enough to remember the GE stoves and cooktops from 50's and 60's with ten mechanical pushbuttons for heat settings? Those pushbuttons were literally "digital" controls, meaning that you punched them with one of your digits. GE sold a lot of them for a couple of decades, so some people found them adequate. Some did not. For the current digital electronic ten-step controls, others here besides loonlakecamp have reported satisfaction with a ten step set-up. Others, like me, would find them inconvenient for my cooking with, say, my pressure cookers. With only ten heat level steps, I would have to be constantly switching settings to maintain the correct pressure. Power setting "1" might be too low, setting "2" might be too high. Switch to 1 for a while until the pressure drops a little too low, switch to 2 for a while until it gets a little too high, then back to 1, etc., etc. With in-between settings, I avoid that annoyance. You don't use pressure cookers? Then maybe having in-between steps won't matter to you. This is just one example of how cooking styles can differ and how more settings can matter to one cook and not to another. Much fuss is sometimes made about the supposedly infinite adjustablity of gas burners. As a practical matter, though, we mostly try to get the burner to the same relatively few settings. Searing is pretty much searing, isn't it? If you deep fat fry, how often would you care if if the oil were at 352° instead of 350°? But maybe somebody is working with sugar syrups where, say, it might matter if a syrup is at 325° and not 360° and then maybe it matters if the induction burner only has ten settings. That said, the subject of induction power settings and controls can be more complicated than just the number of settings. The need for finding "in-between" steps for induction cooking can reflect two different aspects of ways that manufacturers design induction burner controls. One consideration is the power cycling that all induction burners use for settings of less than full power. A technical term for this is "pulse width modulation. or "PWM." It is the same kind of thing a microwave does for low heat levels---momentary pulses of power that average out at a particular heat level. With most PICs as well as some brands of induction cooktops and ranges, the PWM is pretty crude. I've seen this somewhere described as firing up the burner for a second or two of omigosh hot and then switching totally off for three or four seconds. While these pulses average out at a certain heat level the timing can be problematic for, say, the srambled eggs that Amy mentioned at the outset. Combine that kind of "low frequency" PWM with the crude power controls found on many PICs, and you could have a reason that Amy would find herself wanting steps in-between power level "1" and "2" for scambling eggs. Some full size induction ranges and cooktops work this way. I noticed a lot of pulsing at the low heat settings on the Maytag induction range I saw demoed several years ago when I was stove shopping. From past threads on PWM, I gather than Whirlpool's induction ranges and cooktops (which include Maytag and Kitchenaid brands) have used crude PWM. For searching out past threads here on this subject try a search strings like "induction + pulsing + gardenweb" and "induction + cycling + gardenweb." A few of the expensive PICs (Cooktek, Garland, Vollrath) and many full size ranges and cooktops use much higher frequency PWM. Instead switching on and off for a second or more at time, the power switches on and off many times per second. The higher frequency of switching yields much finer power control that more closely approximates a steady heat level. The other design aspect that can lead to wanting "in-between" settings is in how the engineers program the electronic controllers to space the power settings on the appliance you are using --- that's the kind of logarithmic curve I thnk Amy may been thinking about when she posed her question in the original post. . For manufacturers, the least costly controls use simple linear spacing. Setting "1" would use the PWM to average 10% power, setting "2" would be 20%, etc. Even with a high quality PWM, though, 9 or 10 linear settings may be too crude, A thing most induction users discover pretty quickly is that they do most of their cooking in the low to medium range settings. The highest setting can be used for boiling. One or two medium high settings takes care of high heat applications like searing. There seem to be three strategies for induction manufacturers to address the crudeness. One is to add half-steps between the numbered power settings. The other is to program the stove's controllers to put more steps in the low to medium range and fewer in the high ranges. The third strategey combines the first two. Without using the particular induction stove or cooktop, it can be hard to find out whether the particular unit was designed to use one or the other or some combination of them. In my own somewhat limited experience, it seems that the GE induction appliances and Electrolux's Frigidaire/Kenmore ranges seemed to use a modified-half step approach with some concentration of steps but also using half steps for finer control. The Electrolux-branded models use a slightly different approach with quarter-steps at the lower power ends and fewer steps at the high end. Miele cooktops seem to use a similar kind of mix with the option of switching on more steps. I'm not sure how BSH (which includes Bosch) handles this except that their induction appliances manuals show that half-steps are available. The Samsung freeestanding induction ranges seemed to follow the GE model (19 half steps). The reports about Samsung's ten-step "Chef Collection" model seem to conflict, some seeming to say that stepping is linear, some hinting that the settings may be skewed to the lower end. There is a yet another strategy which is the near infinite stepping of of potentiometer-like controls. These control systems seem to be very expensive so, AFAIK, they are used only for the commercial Garland/Manitowiac PICS and maybe the new Miele induction range have this. I say "maybe" for the Miele because there is nothing about it in the product literature and the display shows only whole-number settings, but a couple of posters here -- livinginseattle is the name I recall -- have reported finding that the knobs can be turned to provide fine gradations of "in-between" settings. Some folks would find that ideal. Then the question becomes: how much are you willing to spend for the "ideal" (and are there other design compromises that have to accept in order to get that ideal function for the burners?)
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weedmeister
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
"Cookware size must be matched to size of burner"

Not entirely true. Pretty much all allow +/- 1 inch on sizes, some don't care at all. My CookTek unit is perfectly happy to heat up a 13x9 cake pan or a 4" steel pot. No issues.

"Sides of cookware don't get hot, so you somewhat lose the benefit of the extra heat conductivity of clad cookware"

Actually, this is where clad cookware is best used since the heat will conduct to the sides. Of course, it depends on what you mean by 'hot'. I generally would prefer gas for wok cooking since the sides are used more than not.

"Any warping in your cookware renders that cookware a bit useless on an induction cooktop"

Nope. I mean, if you run over the pan with the car or beat it with a sledge hammer, that might make it not work, depending. People routinely use silicone pads underneath pans with no ill effect. Granted, if your pan is warped outward (convex) it may not sit well on the flat surface, rolling around a bit. But the pan would still heat up. And a pad would keep it from sliding/rolling around.
a2gemini
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I was all ready to go gas when I discovered induction.
I have been quite happy with it - but again newer technology is unknown for how long it will survive.

I recently visited a friend's house and made dinner for them on their professional gas range. Wow - I cooked myself in addition to the dinner - the handles of the vessel were also very hot! - With induction - if you cook it long enough and have metal handles - they can also get hot - but at least I don't get as over heated!

Both gas and induction make noise - but the noises are different - with gas, you hear the gas noises - with induction - they all make some buzzing (some claim that their unit doesn't but I would have to hear with my own ears). Mine makes some noise but when the fan is on - I really don't even hear it.

Safety - An open flame is more likely to start a kitchen fire than no flame. Most kids figure out quickly that a flame burns but not necessarily the other issues such as pulling a hot pot of water on top of them.

UMHS (University of Michigan Health System) just started a research study on the effects of gas cooking on health... But don't worry, someone else will do one on health effects of induction.

We live in an area that used to lose power for prolonged time periods but after meeting with the local Sparky company (electric company), they upgraded the wires leading to the neighborhood and now we seldom lose for more than a couple hours. - We also live where it can can quite hot and quite cold - one of the last times we lost power - I just packed up the turkey etc and we headed north (actually, we had planned to go up north to cook the turkey - it just worked out perfectly) - It would have been too cold to stay in the house in the middle of the winter!

Go with your heart and your cooking style - no regrets from my choice.
ginny20
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Another advantage of induction is that in a small kitchen such as mine it acts as additional counter space. Any electric smoothtop would, but with induction there's no danger of accidentally igniting something like a dishtowel or potholder or piece of mail.

In the end, it is a personal choice, since they both cook well and are highly responsive. Me, I'd always choose induction, and I have one of the noisiest models on the market. I love it anyway.
attofarad
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Another advantage of induction vs. gas is that is is more comfortable to cook. Gas dumps a lot more waste heat into the kitchen, so it is hotter and less comfortable. Cost more for AC, if you are in that climate.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Or get induction.

In my massive remodel, I installed an induction range, but I plumbed gas behind the range, in case anyone (future buyer) prefers gas. Only cost me a pittance, while everything was apart and gas was already being modified.
babyraccoon
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
All great points!

Power outages are very rare where I live, so I'm not overly concerned about not being able to cook on my stove if the power goes out. As for heat in the kitchen, this also wouldn't be a major concern in our climate.

So far, the two aspects that have me considering induction are the ease of cleaning and the lack of an open flame. The cooktop will be located in an island facing a breakfast bar - I'm envisioning kids doing their homework while I cook, paper accidentally dropping into the flame, etc. Something to be considered when we get more into the nitty gritty of the kitchen design.

For those who have cooked on both, any observations on the general performance of one versus the other?
jadeite
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
There is an aspect you haven't mentioned yet - venting. How will you vent from your island cooktop? When we moved into our home, the GE gas cooktop was against a wall with a popup vent. Both were pretty useless, so we planned to replace the GE with BS. After a lot of thinking about how to vent from the BS gas cooktop, we decided to go with induction instead because the heat generated was less, so venting requirements were lower.

We installed a Thermador induction cooktop with Kobe overhead vent and couldn't be happier. Induction is faster and more finely controlled than gas. For the cook, it's more comfortable because heat goes only into the pan and not in your face or arms. I love the convenience of timers - no more boilovers or burnt offerings. I have set mitts and potholders on fire over gas a number of times, that's all in the past. DH loves the easy cleanup.

Cheryl
pber2025
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I can't say for all units on the market and I did see videos on the net of some induction units being picky on the size of the pan (KA?), but on my Miele you have a very large range to play with so this is not an issue and it should not be an issue on something sold under the Gaggenau name.
dan1888
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Safety around kids may not seem to be as big a concern after the explanation above. But that doesn't take into consideration the added design options an induction cooktop gives you for a smaller kitchen-the kind you can find along with younger kids. An induction top is much more likely to be on an island with kids using the island too.
Homework, breakfast, snacks and helping with cooking.
Think of the open flame in that setting and compare that with the induction safety.
If your design includes an island cooktop with island seating then induction makes safety sense.
luv2putt
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
And the debate goes on ... Cook on both , decide which brings you the most pleasure and satisfaction ... I can imagine that had I went with gas ,I would be extolling its virtues , but I went with induction and have never looked back ... There is no wrong answer ...
herring_maven
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
babyraccoon: "Cookware size must be matched to size of burner"

No more so than with gas. Really. If you cook with a large pot over a small ring of gas, you have the same problem.

"Sides of cookware don't get hot, so you somewhat lose the benefit of the extra heat conductivity of clad cookware"

A common misconception about clad cookware. For cooking solids, that is, effectively, wok-style cooking, or fried chicken in a cast iron skillet, zone cooking, where some parts of the pan are hotter than others and you move the solid pieces around constantly, heating of the sides is part of the process.

However (as in most cooktop/rangetop cooking), where the contents of the pot are liquid, clad cookware is a detriment, not a benefit. Almost all of the heat that is conducted up the sides of the pot ends up in the kitchen, not in the contents of the pot, and that energy is "stolen" from heat at the bottom of the pot that would have heated the contents of the pot.

If you put your hand on the side of a clad pot that has been on the burner for a while, it is hot. Think about that: the heat that you feel in your hand is not going into the liquid inside the pot; it is headed out of the pot.

It is simple physics: heat flows through a heat conductor from the hotter zone to the cooler zone. Most of the stuff you cook in a pot starts out at room temperature, or close to it. (Usually tap water is cooler than room temperature, but not much.)

Heat applied at the bottom of a pot containing liquid will create a convection current in the liquid which quickly will distribute the heat throughout the liquid. Once the liquid inside the pot is hotter than the air outside the pot, to the extent that the sides of the pot can conduct heat, those sides will take heat OUT of the liquid and conduct the heat to the air outside of the pot.

I know, I know, you have read some of the advertising that makers of clad pots have put out there to convince you that clad pots are always superior to disk-bottom pots. A lot of money has been spent on the snake oil. But advertising money simply cannot overcome the laws of physics.
bevwinchester
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
So, herring maven- what are you selling? We all know what we enjoy cooking with; irregardless of the "laws of physics"....
PRO
BeverlyFLADeziner
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I had induction in 1988 in a new home and loved it because of the ease of cleaning. So I don't think it is a new technology that will then go away.

Gas IMO is a dirty, smelly fuel and discolors the bottom of all of my cookware. Also, depending on where you live, gas might be more expensive than electric to run.
PRO
BeverlyFLADeziner
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I had induction in 1988 in a new home and loved it because of the ease of cleaning. So I don't think it is a new technology that will then go away.

Gas IMO is a dirty, smelly fuel and discolors the bottom of all of my cookware. Also, depending on where you live, gas might be more expensive than electric to run.
herring_maven
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
bevwinchester: "So, herring maven- what are you selling?"

Nothing. Nothing at all. Why do you ask?

"We all know what we enjoy cooking with; irregardless of the 'laws of physics' ...."

Suppose the discussion was about air conditioning in automobiles, and a poster wrote that a "Con" to air conditioning was that you needed to keep the windows rolled up, and that prevented you from sticking your arm out the window to signal a turn. Would it indicate that I am selling something if I were to comment that sticking your arm out the window to signal a turn is no longer the preferred method to signal?

If you enjoy cooking liquids with clad cookware and thereby you use your pot as a space heater for a cold kitchen, enjoy away; no one is going to pry your clad pot from your hands. But the advantage that clad pots enjoy as radiators should not be listed as a "con" for induction cooktops or ranges, because the heat that goes into your kitchen is lost to the cooking process.
Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Just my opinion. I have always cooked with gas. In one apartment, we had electric and I quickly learned how to burn everything! So gas has ruled all of my kitchens since!

We just moved to county property, high on a hill, and there is NO gas! And county code says we can't cook with propane inside! My option was electric or induction.

I'm a grandma, and not excited about learning new things, but I do remember the electric disasters, so we went induction! Holy Cow! I've never cooked better or been happier in my kitchen! Induction is amazing! PLUS, you get to buy all new cookware! I carry a magnet with me to the stores now just to test if a pan is induction friendly. Many aren't, but I got an awesome set on overstock! Beaudex from France!

All my cast iron still works great too, and I have a lot of that!

Color me happier with induction!!

Suzi
sjhockeyfan325
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
desertcow, I love the "Holy Cow"!! We also can't have gas in our new place, so we're going the induction route, too. Love the testimonial.

Talk to me about induction vs gas

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