30" all gas GE monogram vs. Thermador
lovetogarden_oak
11 years ago
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Nunyabiz1
11 years agoRelated Discussions
30' All-Gas Range - DCS vs. Thermador vs. Viking
Comments (8)I have done a fair bit (somewhere between lots and nuts) of looking at 30" ranges of late. I've settled on the BlueStar, which doesn�t quite fit your model � standard layout has 2x22k burners, 1x15k burner, and 1 x simmer burner. You can re-arrange these for a very small up-charge; and I reckon they�ll build you a range with a different mix of burners as well. But my understanding is that the 22k burners, even on low, are not great for really low output simmering. Hence, if you really want all four burners to "go to 11," as it were (22k btu), this might not be your first choice. If it's a deal-breaker, then it is. I ruled out Viking early. First, I'm upgrading from a GE Profile that's a dozen years old or so. Moving to 4 sealed burners with a max output of 15k is not what I want � I can get more power from the new GE ranges. Second, I have concerns about reliability. I know a couple of folks personally (not just virtually) who have had problems with Viking, and CR reports a relatively high failure rate for the brand (I know that CR gets a lot of flack on this board for a variety of reasons, and I regard them as a mixed bag � OTOH, I don't think for an instant that they cook their numbers and when they report double the failure rate based on a decent sized survey sample, or "n," that's a concern for me). Wolf offers the same output, better reliability numbers from CR, and better consumer satisfaction numbers from JD Power. Thermador was a fall-back choice for me and my preference among the sealed burner options � I liked the size, shape, and elevation of the star burners, which go to about 18k btu (plenty for most applications). Plus I've cooked on one and have some friends nearby who've had good luck with theirs � tiny little samples, arbitrarily chosen, but the personal reports and hands-on exposure count for me. The CC range mentioned above may most closely fit your criteria. It's likely well worth a serious look if you can check one out in person. My own decision to focus on BlueStar has nothing to do with any particular defects with the Capital. An up-close examination of the ergonomics matters to me. I really like the way BlueStar uses the limited space of the 30" top, for one thing � a very key thing, for me personally � and the operation of the new racks in the oven seems very solid and smooth. For another, I tend to prefer models that have been out in the market � and subject to minor fixes and tweaks � for a few years. For another, I've got a colleague who has been using the 36" version of the range for 4 years or so, as well as a friend of a good friend, who grew up in the restaurant business and has several years' experience with the 30" BS (and a willingness to converse and provide very, very detailed reports). Tiny, arbitrary samples, but when systematic evidence is terrible or entirely absent, I give a fair bit of weight to face-to-face conversation with folks I know. Of course these are all reasons for me that might not apply to your search at all. And as I said at the top, the BS range in standard configuration just does not meet your criterion of having all four burners go from super low to super high. It's not an issue for me, but I understand the drive to optimize flexibility on a relatively small top, with only 4 burners (personally, I�m going to augment the range with a small, portable induction burner that can be pulled out as needed to, e.g., keep stock on simmer off to the side, or keep a back-up pot of water near boiling, but out of the way when I need that, and put away when I don�t). But this is going to be your range, and there�s no point in going to the trouble, and spending the money, if you are not going to get what you want....See MoreGE Monogram vs. Thermador: 36" Gas Range
Comments (2)Well, as is usually the case, the rest of the house renovation went over budget. So we kept our Thermador for now. I absolutely LOVE the cooktop. And the oven cooks very evenly but the fan is just so loud. It is super frustrating. However, we visited a high-end appliance showroom and looked at the newer 36" Thermador. It didn't seem near as loud, so I wonder if the Thermador engineers figured out a different fan mechanism. If you decide on the Monogram, I'd love to know what you think!...See MoreComparing Thermador 30" Duel Fuel Range vs. GE Monogram 30" Dual Fuel
Comments (26)"Commercial bakeries use nothing but gas ovens." This is not true. If you are talking about bulk bakeries, they are more inclined to because it is often cheaper but they also have steam injectors to add humidity when needed. I know several specialty bakeries that use electric ovens. Many deck ovens in commercial kitchens are electric. I knew of a bakery that was called "the Electric Bakery". It really depends a lot on what they are baking. I know a baker that has specialty ovens for pies. This really has nothing to do with home ovens because they are a different breed anyway as they are expected to do many different things. "Dual fuel is excessively expensive, and overly complex for no benefit in performance ." Performance is different things to different people. They have different needs so there is no one size fits all. If I were selling appliances, the first thing would be to assess that person's needs and make individualized recommendations based on those needs. I most likely would never recommend ranges to begin with unless there was a compelling reason like space or cost issues or even a preference for "looks" over cooks. Pick out each component because it meets individual needs in the best way possible. As far as cost, you can buy electric ovens with features that have high utility for less than some gas ovens with limited features. Electric ovens can be complex, but so are our home computers and cars these days. This is not necessarily a bad thing. These ovens can have features that many consider helpful in how they use their ovens. It takes a computer board to coordinate fans, heating elements and tight temperature control. I love being able to control the direction of heat and fan speed in my oven. I can have air movement slow or fast to facilitate browning or not if I am baking a cake. It has a lot greater range of temperature, with or without the fan than many ovens gas or electric that cost a lot more. There is a learning curve with these features especially with the many choices something like Gaggenau or Miele give you. The combi oven is the king of control of the cooking environment but not in a range yet. The other side of the coin is some ovens have this figured out and others, not so much, so you have to read as many reviews as you can. To minimize risk if you want these features, buy the longest service agreement that you can. They can be difficult to evaluate and compare because a feature named the same name in two different brands can mean two different things. Even the term "dual fuel", in most ovens it means gas burners and an electric oven but 5 Star when they say dual fuel means a gas oven and electric oven together in the same range. You have to decide what is a benefit and what is a burden? No one answer. "could you please explain why all gas is fine" "All gas is fine." I might agree with that statement depending on how you use your oven but that in no way means they are the same and it in many cases gas is not the best choice. Gas and electric ovens are constructed differently. Because you have combustion for your heat source, another difference, gas ovens are vented more to remove products of combustion including water, so those products of combustion and humidity from food move out of the oven and into the kitchen. That may be good or bad depending on where you live, but how is that significant to cooking? It is much more difficult to keep added steam in a gas oven if you are doing that for bread or adding a pan of water for cheesecake. Because there is more of an air current, in a gas oven, this removes more moisture from the surface of what you are cooking. This inhibits starch gelatinization during the first part of baking so inhibits rise and changes the appearance of what you are baking. On the other hand, because it evaporates moisture from the surface and allows it to heat more quickly, the Maillard and other browning chemical reactions take place more quickly. This is why meat, vegetables and even baked goods brown more quickly. Will you notice? A lot of people say they don't. I have baked in gas and electric ovens for over 50 years and I used to attribute differences in outcomes to different ovens rather than a difference in fuel but with the many books and websites that have come out on food science, you can see the rationale for the differences in outcome that cooks report in cooking/baking forums. It was kind of a "aha" moment to put these comments with the science. All of the information coming out challenges what used to be conventional wisdom and yet it might be hard to see if you are not baking the exact same recipe side by side. You do see the same observations cooks make repeatedly in terms of cooking on cooking and baking forums and people seem to notice the difference more coming from electric to gas but you do see the occasional comment about excess moisture in some electric ovens when they are coming from gas. Most advertising literature and websites about ovens actually say a gas oven provides moist heat and electric dry but they are only looking at the heat source and not the oven as a whole and the process of cooking which provides a lot of moisture to the oven chamber. Another difference is that there are more and more features being loaded into ovens now as noted above, mostly electric but sometimes gas too. Some electric ovens have added steam. Combi ovens are very useful in their ability to control humidity and really make the case for buying ovens separate from the range top instead of having to pick the priority of the burners or the oven. I am not a fan of the current trend of hiding the bake element in electric ovens. Sometimes with pies, you need that bottom element exposed. It used to be you could put a tray under the element to catch spills. If you put it on the bottom now, it will melt. Some other things to consider. gas broilers are of two types. There is the traditional gas broiler, but they are not very good. Many prostyle gas ovens have an infrared broiler. They are very hot and even, but can be small. They are great for a couple of steaks but not so much trays of appetizers or broiling larger amounts. How big is the oven? Do you want a quick preheat or need room for full commercial sheets? Look at the rack size for usable space and size top to bottom. What is the temperature range, lowest and highest? What are the increments that you can set your temperature? 25F or 5F? Ovens are not an easy choice these days but I think it helps at least some people to realize the differences so you can at least make a somewhat informed decision....See MoreThermador vs Wolf 30 inch all-gas ranges
Comments (4)For cooking performance Bluestar RNB is the only good consumer option I'm aware of. The Thermador burners seem better than Wolf but are still far short of those on the RNB. Wolf is purely the facade of the nameplate though that is fading as people realize how bad the newer burners are. I believe Bertazzoni have dual ring burners like the older Wolf burners. These are better than what Wolf and Thermador offer but short of the RNB burners. More: https://bamasotan.us/the-kitchen/...See Morelovetogarden_oak
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