Pro chef here.

First problem is that cakes should NOT be baked with convection. Convection encourages crust formation, and a thicker crust restricts rising. Do not use convection for things that rise, like cakes and souffles. The exception is bread, which rises stronger than cakes because of the yeast, and a convection oven yields a better crust.

Second, recipes need adjusting for convection, especially baking recipes. As a rule of thumb, for baking things like cookies, reduce recipe temp 25 F. For non-baking recipes, like roasting meat, instead of reducing the temp, reduce the time about 10% instead.

Oh, so probably the folks who had problems didn't adjust the temp? I've never used convection.

I second cpovey's recommendation about cakes and convection with anecdotal evidence here: I baked one of those Trader Joe's Lemon cakes out of a box deals (sorry, cpovey. This must gall your pro-chef heart but I'm a culinary lightweight!). It was a pretty heavy batter and I baked it in convection for the requisite period of time. I had a wonderful looking top - risen, separated from the edges, some cracks but not dry looking etc. To test, I stuck a knife in the center - after the top 1/4" of crust, the rest of the 1.5 or 2" depth was completely runny. Switched to regular bake and it cooked just fine (of course, it didn't rise as much as it did the second time I tried the concoction)

Oh and I have an electric convection oven.

cpovey, thank you for that clear dilineation about cakes vs. bread with convection. I've also often heard that cakes and baked goods that rise shouldn't be done in convection coz outside cooks faster etc.. Well, nothing rises quite like bread but apparently bread and convection ovens were a-okay - or were they? so that lead to wondering if cakes and convection were really okay ... and an infinite loop started. So I never had quite understood what gives with these schizophrenic instructions. Thanks so much for clearing it up.

We were thinking of the GEProfile, too, but eventually decided on the Bosch--which was actually a little less expensive!

It's amazing how you can think you've decided on an appliance, isn't it? I never thought to check out Bosch...is it a freestanding range, gas, and convection oven?

Why did you decide on the Bosch?

sorry, cpovey. This must gall your pro-chef heart but I'm a culinary lightweight!

Truth be told, most bakeries use mixes for standard cakes. Companies like Pillsbury have available ingredients called sabilizers are really much better than eggs for stabilizing a cake once it has risen. Where I work, we are not bakers, but the bakers we buy from all admit to using mixes for standard white, yellow, chocolate, etc. cakes.

Cakes like genoise, pound, banana nut, German Chocolate, etc. are generally made from scratch.

Hi. We decided on the Bosch for a couple of reasons. I did quite a bit of research and discovered that GEProfile ranges had more negative ratings by consumers than did Bosch. I even did a search on this forum and somebody--who works for an appliance store, I believe--said that Bosch, while a lesser-known brand--was, in his opinion, hands-down the best quality for the money. We purchased our appliances from a small, family-owned appliance store and the owners also told us that Bosch was, in their opinion, the best range they carried on that level of ranges. Finally, we really liked the look and design of it. We bought the freestanding gas/convection range.

Here's a link: http://www.boschappliances.com/category5.html

Also, a thread from this forum:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0610385230547.html

Which model did you get? Is this a genuine Bosh, or made by an American company for Bosch?

Thanks for the info about resturants and box cakes Cpovey.
Most of the places I go to have pastry chefs so you are saying that these places use box cake too?
I usually do not get desert when I go out because I don't like sweet things. NOW I KNOW I wont be gettting ANY -- if I can't something from scratch.

On to topic - I have the bosch dual fuel gas top and electric convection oven and like it very much. I think it is made by the American Subsidiary of German Bosch maybe in california.

We actually decided to buy last year's model of the range we were interested in (HGS235) because we wanted a black porcelain top rather than a stainless steel top. That model is now discontinued. As far as I know, it's a "genuine" Bosch. It might be manufactured in the U.S., but I don't think Bosch contracts out with an American company to make their products. I certainly wasn't going to have one shipped from Germany--lol!

As a pastry cook, I have to pipe in that I personally never use a cake mix, and very few of the pastry cooks/chefs I know use mixes. They might create their own "mix" of the dry ingredients to speed up production, but not all bakeries use a mix, and I would venture to guess that a pastry chef in a quality restaurant (we're not talking Olive Garden/Macaroni Grill/Ruby Tuesday's here) creates the desserts from scratch.

And, for that matter, where I work, we do bake our cakes with the convection fans on. We bake delicate things like custards (lemon tarts, creme brulee) without convection. YMMV, of course.

My husband makes specialty cakes as a side business. Most often he bakes from scratch and uses real ingredients like eggs instead of stablizers.

He also bakes his cakes almost always in a convection oven but when we changed from a traditional oven he he adjusted the time and temperature. He gets many more compliments now on his cakes than he did before. I have to admit that the texture is better.

BTW: We bought a Kitchenaid slide in gas range w/ convection oven. We both love it and have yet to have anything come out half baked.

Razorback, that's good to hear. I've heard from some sales people that the gas convection is NOT real convection...that I need dual fuel. I'm glad that I have this forum to double check stuff like that with.

mari: Our Kitchenaid gas convection range has an electric assist element in the oven, so even though it isn't a true convect or a true dual fuel: it's still working well for us and is so lovely to cook/bake in.

The problem with gas convection is the heat comes from the bottom of the oven. Kitchen Aid has a electric elemant around the fan to help even the temp from top to bottom. even knowing this I also bought the bosch all gas with probe. The nice thing about the all gas is that it gives moist air not dry like the ele oven. The ele oven is more even top to bottom, so if you cook on all of your racks you will get more even cooking top to bottom with the ele.

Organic, is the top SS or glass?

It's black porcelain, I believe. It's last year's model. :)

Is there a noticeable difference in baking with a gas (convection or not) and electric (convection or not) oven these days or is this a thing of the past?

I love baking cakes, soufles, flourless cakes, meringue, pies, etc and am looking to buy a new oven.
I heard the blue star is great, but it is gas only (and not self cleaning). I was also considering a Dacor preference (to avoid having to install a vented hood) but the reviews are not good - very unreliable product.

Now I am stuck in between a Blue Star all gas range (would have to re-do the hood), or a Bosch dual-fuel, but have no idea which might be best.
Let me know what you guys think and what is your baking experince with those ranges..
Thanks a bunch!

Bosch dual fuel might be in the stars for me because we found out today that I do have the wiring for dual fuel!! I always thought that I'd have to replace our all gas range with yet another.

mariposatraicionera, congratulations on your discovery. Of course, this just makes your decision more complicated, eh?! You can have anything, budget willing. I think the range decision is the toughest for those who actually love to cook in their kitchens. Was for me, anyway!

Vbruli, I have a BS & I have to say I noticed a big difference one day when I forgot to flip the convection switch for bread. I was stunned when I saw the difference in a family-favorite recipe. If you're still shopping for a range, hope you're visiting the Bluestar threads -- and others!

Yep, the dual fuel just complicates my life. First I thought all gas was difficult, now I have to decide if this 'true convection' is something they're making up to sell us dual fuel, or if I really need it!

Blue star sounds wonderful and I've read many of the threads but I think it's a bit too high for us just now. Which do you have?

I just spoke with two different sales people over the phone at two companies. One told me that true convection is ELECTRIC, while the other said that's all hog wash. Then the electrician who is an avid cook said that most Americans know absolutely nothing about convection and are talking out of their rear ends!

That sure helped me to decide. I will keep the 220 V outlet and decide in a couple weeks whether it's dual fuel or all gas. Apparently, there is no real proof that electric convection is better than gas convection.

Electric ovens do tend to keep a more even temperature inside than gas. Both Fine Cooking and Cook's Illustrated magazine ran tests on their own test ovens and found this to be true.

You might want to do a search on Bosch through all the forums, not just the Kitchen. I think I recall seeing some complaints about Bosch customer service, and that's a pretty important issue to research.

I have had my bosch dual fuel convection for almost a year now and find it to be a good range. No complaints with it so far. Of course I am not a major baker or anything like that. I think the term true convection or European convection comes from the practice of having the heat source outside of the oven and then having a fan blow the heat IN rather than having the heat coming from the bottom and then having a fan blow it around. In the past this was available in ovens in Europe but it was not common in the USA.

The Bosch has a separate heating element in the fan area so that when you use convection the fan is blowing heat into the oven and not just around the oven. Not sure how this would work in a non commerical gas oven but I guess it could.

Is this better than other convenction type methods?---don't know.

Over this last year I lost the desire to eat any kind of meat so no longer cook, broil, or roast it but I do use the convection oven when I make treats for my dog(treats made from duck and potato). The treat roasting time is cut in half and they come out nice and crisp on the oustide and chewable on the inside so I would think that any meats would come out great in this oven.

As far as customer service goes I have not needed it. Also you can order parts for Bosch appliances on line. During the ordering process you will be shown a parts list, a schematic and you can purchase stuff right over the internet. I like that.

Jerrod, Those doggie treats sound great. Do you like having the gas top for regular cooking? I haven't had an electric oven in so many years that I've forgotten what it's like to bake in one. The controls had looked a bit odd at the top though.

Okay, on to Bosch. I hear such conflicting reports on that range that it's confusing at times. I saw the range the other day and loved the uncluttered, clean look but I know that customer service would be important if something went wrong. I'll do a search Jkom, thanks for the tip..

It is true that "true" or "European" convection is only in electric ovens - it's a third element around the fan and in true convection mode all the heat comes from just that element. Some gas ranges do have a third "assist" element.
On the other hand, good gas ovens can produce very even heat and excellent results - many professional bakers use gas ovens - gas ovens are also better for roasting meats and things with a crust like bread.

I went over to Gringers on the east side in the city today.I looked at a Blue Star that they had on display. The range was a 36" with griddle priced @ $4300. + Delivery. I didn't try to bargain with the salesman because I'm not ready to buy immediately. I'm sure once I go in and talk seriously that the price will come down. I wanted to look at a Blue Star in person after hearing that the unit had sharp edges that would inflict serious lacerations. I found no sharp edges that would cut ones skin. I liked the range overall. I looked at the Capital unit also. Capital is better finished but the burners produce less BTU's. I think the Blue star is the way to go for me.

If one bakes alot in a northern climate, a gas oven can be considerably cheaper to operate. Down south where we use AC, the difference in fuel cost is ofset by additional AC cost for the gas so its a wash.

Anyone have anything to say about preheat time with their convection oven. i am hearing reports of 40 min to heat to 400oC.

We bought a GE profile, and have been very unhappy with it. It is a wall oven. Immediately after the short warranty expired, it started making noises as it warmed up. Controlling the thermostat has been difficult. It does not cook well or evenly. For what we paid, we are very disappointed, which is why, after owning it for less than TWO years, we're considering getting rid of it. Unfortunately, we've had bad luck with GE appliances generally.

I have a DCS all gas w/ convection. I also have an electric Dacor wall oven w/ convection. I have found both to work well, and tend to choose one over the other depending on what's going into them &/or convenience.

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