We have the Optima with the hidden controls. I had fought my KD for awhile on the whole paneled DW issue, but DH kind of liked the idea so I gave in early on (figured one less SS appliance to clean could be good thing!).

I ended up liking having a DW this way better than I would have thought, considering how much I'd resisted going this route initially. The settings are as simple as could be to use. There is a red indicator light on the top of the control panel, that shines up at the underside of the counter (if you have a granite countertop, a small mirror--supplied with the DW, gets attached to the underside of the granite, which then reflects the light for you to see). When the DW is running, the light is on. At the end of the cycle, the light flashes on and off for awhile, and then turns off. It doesn't bother me in the least. The one small downside to going this route, is the DW doesn't lock, so unless you know the DW was run, you wouldn't know that until opening the door. The panel will be lit, with a 0 showing in the read-out space, indicating that a cycle had been run. We usually run the DW at night before bed, so in the morning or whenever I empty it, I hit the power button to turn it off. I don't think it's a problem if you leave it on for even longer, it's probably more of an energy saving feature than anything else (but I'm sure others here will be able to weigh in on that one).

I don't know how the noise level is on the Inspira vs the Optima. I will say, that the Optima is not dead-silent (especially on start up and when it's draining). It is however, extremely quiet, and I often forget that it's on.

Nothing is dead silent. It is all relative. If I sit and listen for my DW and there is nothing else going on in the house(this would have to be after midnight) then I will hear it.

If normal activity is going on then you don't notice the DW because everything else is going on. You can have a conversation in the Kitchen and not hear the DW because the conversation will be louder. So it is all relative.

The Inspira is the nosiest DW Miele sells to the U.S.A. Next comes the Diamante and next is the OPTIMA. So the Optima is rated to be quieter than the Inspira and I think the Optima holds just a bit more dishes.

You should order the DW brochure from Miele.com which will give you all of the differences between the models. Don't rely on salesmen to know all of the details.

It's really quiet and doesn't annoy me. Sure, I hear it, but no need to increase the tv volume or speak louder which was the case with my previous GE dishwasher and a closed kitchen! I know have an open kitchen and the Miele inspira is great. No problems with the hidden controls. I usually run it during the day or at night so I never have to wait for it to be done.

Are there any rough comparisons in loudness between the Miele DW and the Bosch? Bosch lists decibel figures, whereas Miele lists them by Q rating, which seems to be nothing more than a relative scale.

We are thrilled with the noise level (or lack thereof!) of our Optima. Talking on the phone while the DW is running is still amazing to me! The only reason why I even mentioned that it is not "dead-silent," is because that is often how it's portrayed by some on the forum ("I can't tell it's on unless I press my ear to the door" sort of thing). I just wanted to give a more realistic expectation (of the noise level) for the OP than some other posts I've read in the past.

In previous years the Miele printed documentation listed the DB's. It still does list them in every other part of the world except for the U.S.A where the Q ratings are used. In previous years Miele named the models by G numbers(G and a number). It still does but adds the additional model names only in the U.S.A. All of this was probably done to make it "easier" for us. KitchenAid used Sones as a measurement but I see that this year this has been replaced with DB.

I am able to find the DB ratings for the Laperla, and Excella by using the G numbers for those the models and then looking them up in other countries. It gets a bit more difficult when you get to the OPTIMA because there are several dishwashers with different numbers that look like the Optima that are being sold in other parts of the world. So using my find for the Laperla and Excella and the look alike Optima's I am going to guess the Q ratings are as follows:

Q5 42DB - LaPerla
Q4 44DB - Excella
Q3 46DB - Optima
Q2 48DB - Diamante
Q1 50DB - Inspira/Advanta

That said, these may be incorrect but I am using the starting point from the model numbers that are the same in Europe and Australia.

One note: I just went to the German Miele site and see that it lists new models. I didn't spend any detailed time looking at these but I breifly looked at the G2831 since I have the G2830 Laperala. The G2831 looks like the G2830 and but I see that it has a DB rating of 41 and not 42 like the G2830 Laperla does.

The Miele models released last year(2006) in the U.S.A where released in Germany in 2004, so they are new to the U.S.A but have been around a while in Germany. I don't mind this since it gives them time to get any bugs out of it before - IF - it gets across the pond to the U.S.A.

The loudness issue has come up in the past. There have been engineers on the forum in the past who stated that you cannot really discern the difference between, say a 52 rating and a 46 rating.

The loudest points in the cycles are draining. I can hear those upstairs in my house but the drain is open (I don't usually put the stopper in as we're on a septic so I have a strainer in there) and we have PVC pipes. My understanding is that cast iron pipes are much quieter.

When the dw is in operation it is very quiet. It's often necessary to bend down and see whether the light is on to know if it is or isn't running.

Mine is the older Incognito (3 y.o.) with hidden controls and panel. I love it and would buy another any time. I really like having it behind the panel. If I replace my other old DW I'd look at the Inspira and the Excella.

I think there are other points to examine between the Miele and Bosch dws that are more different than the sound rating.

what are the other points to examine between Bosch and Miele? I am trying to decide between the 2 brands.

We have an Inspira with custom panels and hidden controls at our soon-to-be permanent home, but spend weekends there now. We got the model that accommodates 14-place settings. It is located on an island, which apparently is the worst-case test for noise. We are not bothered by the slight noise it makes and so far are happy with performance. We called Miele about the "power on" button, because we often forget to turn it to "power off" before leaving for our other house a couple of hours away. They said it was really a power-saving issue and not to worry. And the extra power usage was slight at that (they said anyway). As for the other Miele DW models, I went to the Miele showroom in Boca Raton before settling on the Inspira, the model which our well-regarded local appliance dealer had recommended, and based on what the showroom personnel explained about the various features, the Inspira seemed to meet our needs. We are using Electrosol 2 in 1 tabs and rinse aid. So far the Inspira is doining well.

tomalyse -- If price is not a factor (and it often is) and the sound is about equally -- i.e. both are quiet, then other issues arise.

Door Panel - yes or no

Loading - style is different as most Mieles have the top cutlery rack, which everyone seems to adore (I do). Huge improvement for me as it also accomodates many small items, mats, serving pieces etc.-- big stuff that couldn't go anywhere else in the dw

Capacity -- my 3 y.o. dw holds 36 dinner plates or 14 place settings. It holds way more than my older dw and while things sit closer together they get perfectly clean.

Spray arms? How many

Cycles - How many and what do you need?

How is hot water generated?

Water softener built in? yes/ no?

Drying system -- No more heated drying but check to see how each works.

Special racking flexibility -- mine, f.ex. has a whole section that folds flat and I can put my stockpots in there.

Newer models have different 2nd basket ocnfig and lots of set ins for wine glasses and bottle washing.

It really comes down to what you want/ need. Problem is, most of us don't know until after. LOL!

Happy to answer questions if you have them about things I've outlined.

rococogurl - are there any quirks that you don't like about your Miele? which model do you have? We are not going to do a door panel, rack flexibility important, quietness. Hard to tell how the quiet compares with the Bosch (which seems like their recent models are quieter than Miele), also the elctricity usage for a Miele is @ 318 kwh/yr v Bosch 190 kwh. Seems like people on this forum prefer Miele for reliability? But new Bosch features are compelling. Pricewise - we probably would go with Optima or Excella v. Integra or Evolution 800 with Bosch. Thanks for your input.

Tomalyse I don't have the Bosch so cannot accurately describe its features but I did read the news release regarding the new 2007 models. Everything that is on the Bosch 2007 models is all ready on my 2006 Miele G2830 Laperla model which was released in the U.S.A in 2006 but released in Germany in 2004. If you read the Bosch press release they explicitly compare their new models to those manufactured in the U.S.A. not to models made elsewhere so for the most part I think the features found on the new release are all ready on the Miele....However..some of the features may not be found on all Miele models so you have to examine them to see. I would order the brochure from the Miele web site. it also contains general installation sizing requirements..I think it is free.

The softest Miele is 42db which is what Bosch is saying is on their top end new model...but I think this is relative to what is going on in your area.

Racks found on the OPTIMA and above can handle the placement of glasses in the bottom without breakage. Once you get up to the Excella there is an added advantage of being able to remove the center rack and then wash only in the bottom. I actually like this better than top rack only since you can place tall large items in the bottom easier than in the top and since glasses can also go in you have more flexibility.

Excella and Laperla also have alternating spray arms and automatic spray pressure so don't need to draw a lot of water to keep everything moving. The spray pattern differs by what cycle is running. If you check the printed information in the U.S.A you will NOT find out about the alternating spray arms. It is not mentioned, but can be found out about on Euro web sites. But the feature is there just not talked about in the U.S.A.

I think both Bosch and Miele DW clean. I think all Mieles clean. The Excella and Laperla have some addtional cycles which are nice. With them you can add a soak or extra pre rinse or extended drying to some cycles. There are some cycles that cut the time duration down, and still clean just fine. There are cycles for cheese and pasta which provide an extended hot prewash and a very hot main wash. Both machines make use of sensors to vary the wash temperature and the make up of the cycle( wash and rinse durations, number of water changes - to match the soil load. Both of these use Automatic Load recognition to adjust the amount of water taken for each fill to the size of the load. Sometimes there is so little water inside it's scary.

The top tray holds cutlery and parts of it can be removed and adjusted so that if you have tall items in the middle rack they can protrude up further. The tray also frees up some space in the lower racks. Middle racks can be raised, lowered, titled.

There is a thread around here called Miele Load. I posted some pictures of one of my loads run last year. If you check that thread you will see how the dishes can be placed in.

The Bosch made for the U.S.A requests you to supply a water temp of at least 120F so you are the one heating some of the water to that temp to get best performance. Miele has no such restriction and will heat tap cold water to almost 170F degrees used to wash pots and pans so I suspect this is one reason there may be the difference in electric costs. Also which one of the Bosch cycles is using that low amount of Kwh and under what conditions can you use that cycle?

There may be one other thing that contributes to this and that is that Miele uses a fan to assist in drying. I am not sure Bosch does this. Both use a form of convection drying. Rather than just letting everything sit Miele uses a fan that draws in cool air from the outside and then blows the air in a space between the outer and inner tubs. The difference in air temp helps the water condense off of the dishes. Outside air never touches the dishes.

Some folks talk about having a high loop. My dishwasher is not next to the sink and the drain line goes straight down through the floor and into the basement. No high loop and the machine holds the water in and prevents any from backing up into it. All Mieles have the anti leak protection from the bottom of the DW as well as the fill and drain line(electronics is running through the fill and drain hoses and they cannot be cut). My previous Miele from 1996 also had this feature.

There are posts on the board where people are saying that their dishwasher is virtually silent. I don't like that term because at the upper end the Miele, and now the 2007 Bosch is 42db and the naked ear can still hear that, so if I sit around and listen for the DW I WILL hear it. If other things are going(conversations, radio,cooking, HVAC on high stage) then I don't hear the DW. As others have said there is not that much difference between 48db and 42db plus surroundings and construction materials will also have an impact on how much you hear.

As I stated in the beginning I don't have a Bosch so cannot accurately describe their features, but these are some things found on the Miele. I purchased this current one last June. I used it to replace the previous model purchased in May 1996 because I redid the kitchen, and liked the smooth touch black panel which matches everything else. No problems with the the first Miele DW at all, and it operated as new on the last day I used it. So I purchased this next one expecting reliability and good results. So far so good.

Thank you everyone for your input. We have decided to go with the Inspira. It seems that it will be quiet - any would be quieter than the one we have now - and has the features we need. I will let you know how we like it.