To all of those who adamently assert how simple it is to read a land survey, I have just two words: Dunning-Kruger

Sweeby,
Thanks for posting that! I always said that people educated in a field "know what they don't know", and people not educated in a field think they know everything ("confident idiots"). I didn't realize there was a term for it. It explains why everyone thinks they know more about the law than a lawyer (or about building than a builder, or about doing taxes than someone who has actually done them).

Kindell,
As my departed mother used to say, "don't let the turkeys get you down". You had every right to expect professionals to be, you know, not idiots. To be honest, I don't know if hiring an attorney before your land closing would have helped. The attorney would have run a title search on the lot you purchased, not the lot you built on (they would have taken that information from the realtor, used it on the P&S, etc.). They would have reviewed the closing documents. But they typically would not visit the site, and I doubt they would have read the existing survey and walked the lot, noticing the error, if the builder didn't. Hiring an attorney to do the construction contract might have helped you with your case with the builder. But I don't even know based on what you have written if weaknesses in your contract have caused issues there. (Which reminds me, just out of curiosity, does that contract list the book and page, address, etc., where the house was to be built? It should have.) If it is not standard practice in your area to get a new survey before closing (and if the bank didn't require it, it may not be), then an attorney may not have insisted on one. In fact, when I purchased property years ago (before I went to law school), our attorney did not ever mention getting a survey. He reviewed the documents and ran the title search, that was it.

Maybe an attorney familiar with building would have insisted that the foundation placement be staked by a surveyor, but likely not before the closing (maybe requiring the builder do it as part of the construction contract). And that would primarily be to protected you against set back violations, but depending on where you live (codes, etc.) that might be a non-issue. And if it is not "standard practice" in your area to do that (it is in mine, it is required by banks and towns), it might not have been recommended. Hiring an attorney might have just given you another person to sue. (I don't mean that sarcastically at all)

I hope you and your family eventually find peace with all this.

If a licensed realtor or their agent showed the land to you, set foot on it with you, and had their company sign on it, then they have done you a huge disservice and no amount of legal maneuvering will help them when they finally have to face a jury.

Kindell, you have had a bad time of things, there is no disputing that. I had five children, so I know what it is like to raise a large family. However, it was still just a house. A material posession. What counts is your time on earth with your precious children, NOT a house, and not anything else that is a "thing" to own.

This is a good oportunity for your children to see that life goes on, and that there is still joy to be had, IF you let it. It is life and love that counts, not things we can buy. This is a good oportunity to teach by example how the really difficult things in life can be solved in a positive way. Fighting a lawsuit that just keeps dragging on is not good for you, and especially not good for your children.

There were periods in my life that were extremely difficult. I have lost loved ones and have delt with catastophic illnesses. None of us are immune. Children are resilient. They look to you for guidance and that you will make things O.K. again. I just don't believe in perpetuating a situation that is obviously toxic. Do you want them to grow up with memories that are peaceful, or do you want them to grow up with this constant turmoil?

It is NOT always in one's best interest to keep fighting just because you don't want someone to "get away with" hurting you or making a mistake that caused you much pain. You've already thrown away $65,000. That's a huge amount of wasted money. You wasted a good chunk of your life with this already. Sometimes it's better to walk away. I did once....from a builder that should have been sued. My husband felt it wasn't worth the toll on our lives. He was right.

Sandy

" Fighting a lawsuit that just keeps dragging on is not good for you, and especially not good for your children."

So her alternative is what? To pay the bank for a house they cannot live in and pay property taxes on an unbuildable lot, letting the Realtor, surveyor, builder, lender, other land owner and who knows who else get paid in full despite their mistakes? Or let them sue her for any unpaid balances?

She's not suing because she's a vengeful, litigious, blame-shifting witch. She's suing because through the combined actions of a number of players, she has found herself in a huge legal mess with enormous financial ramifications and NO SIMPLE EXIT strategy. A court of law and binding legal agreements (whether reached through mediation, arbitration or court judgement) are the only permanent way out. Throwing up her hands helplessly and giving away all of her money (now and in the future) would NOT be setting a good example of responsible parenting and problem-solving.

If she could simply walk away, I'm sure that would be an attractive option. But I don't see the bank letting her do that...

I am truly taken aback by the number of people willing to blast the OP for somehow being responsible for this really crappy thing that happened to their family. What part of someone going to look at a lot that a realtor showed them, with a for sale sign on it, with a builder and a closing and a bank involved....is so hard to understand as a "normal" thing to do? People buy land and build houses that way every day, all over the country, and it usually works out fine. Kindell had the very bad luck to have a number of professionals fail to do their jobs, and fail to do *their* professional due diligence. Blasting her for not knowing it wasn't okay to trust the realtor who said "this lot is for sale," the builder who was willing to build a house on that lot, the bank that was willing to lend money for them to build a house on that lot....what part of the fact that a bunch of folks who are supposed to be professionals and supposed to know all this stuff, screwed up big time....is so hard to understand? She also stated that they weren't trying to take the landowners to the cleaners, and that the landowners knew this. Anyone who knows much about the legal system and lawsuits knows there are times when all parties MUST be named as parties to the legal action.

This forum can be so nice and supportive a lot of the time...why on the earth the meanness in some of the posts on this one? Some of the meanest ones seemed to have not even read what the OP had written....just saw something about a lawsuit, or some later explanation of how this was affecting the family, and blasted away to the tune of "it's your own fault" and "you're being unreasonable" to seek a legal solution. Sheesh!

Kindell, I'm so sorry that you and your family has gone through this, it must of been heartbreaking. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

"I am truly taken aback by the number of people willing to blast the OP for somehow being responsible for this really crappy thing that happened to their family. What part of someone going to look at a lot that a realtor showed them, with a for sale sign on it, with a builder and a closing and a bank involved....is so hard to understand as a "normal" thing to do?"

If they have an y common sense they demand a certified purvey.

We do that every day also.

It is not just to keep the land surveyors in business, it is to prevent disasters like this.

Without a survey you have NO IDEA what you have actually purchased (or are contemplating purchasing).

That is just the way it is.

"We did not know we would need an attorney to buy land. "

This is a hard way to learn the lesson, but NEVER do anything that you do not completely understand with RE without an attorney.

I used an attorney for many transactions, and still have my wife review all routine contracts (she is an attorney).

If it is anything out of the ordinary I still go back to my RE attorney.

I have been purchasing and selling RE for over 30 years now.
Both personal houses and investments.

I have enough experience to handle the routine stuff, but still like another set of eyes to check even routine transactions.

You people just don't get it. Lawyers, courts, legal messes...since when is all this "normal"?! What these people have done is just devised another way to get more of Kindell's money. $65,000 spent and still increasing is absolutely absurd, not to mention the extreme stress involved. That kind of stress scars people. That money would have paid a big tuition chunk for college for her children. Instead someone else is getting to pay another year membership at their country club.

I've watched people litigate themselves into total bankruptsy. I've watched what 5 years of legal battles did to a close friend fighting to keep his property from being stolen from a greedy developer. Thank goodness, the settlement he ended up with helped some.

I have perfect credit and I still would have chosen to walk away anyway rather than put myself or my children through that kind of stress. I NEVER EVER said that there was bad parenting involved. I certainly NEVER said she was a witch. I don't believe for a second that she is. And I never said anything about throwing up her hands helplessly. On the contrary, walking away with a plan in mind, is taking control. At the very least, I'm thinking she needs a more competent attorney.

To be sure, there are other parties who had a part in this mess. However, there needs to be some acceptance of what role Kindell played in this. The ultimate responsibility is with the person purchasing the land. She made a mistake that was never intentional. Mistakes sometimes have bad repurcussions. That's life. Responsibility has to be taken for that, and then steps taken to mitigate the damage. The American way that has developed with "it's your fault... not mine, no it's your fault" only make the legal system richer, and the person involved bankrupt and broken.

I would much rather have a blemish on my credit history than have been robbed of thousands of dollars, and undergo stress that is bad enough to cause health issues.

Yes, briodsafarm, I have read ALL of the posts. And all all of this IS affecting her children. You would be hard pressed finding a psychologist who would not agree with that statement. I am not being mean. I believe in people accepting responsibility for their roles in life's delemnas, and then with much prayer finding the best way to get their life back. It is obvious Kindell loves her children, and I think she deserves to get a peaceful life back. The only way to do that is for her to look at other options and make a descison based on that. Do you honestly feel that another five or ten years of this is a LIFE? I think she'll be totally out of money by then, perhaps lose the whole case, and then where will she be? Maybe you need to think about the reality of these types of ongoing legal battles before you start your own blasting.

Kindell, my attempt in all of this is to perhaps get you thinking in another direction that would be much better for you and your family in the long wrong.

Sandy

While some of you are working yourselves into another tizzy, I've had another thought.

In reality, we are only getting one side of the story. None of us actually knows what is truly going on in this situation. The fact that the land owner has been settled with, the correct property has been sold, and the bank now has possesion of the house (and it is on the market), says there is more here than meets the eye. The fact is, banks don't want houses.

I don't know if during the lawsuit process more and more of people's egos got involved, hence mediation not working, or if there is something else that we have no knowledge of. The fact is, a simple solution would have been for Kindell to have "bought" the house now that the original owner has sold, and the correct land has been sold. The bank certainly would have liked something simple. $65,000 would have paid a big chunk of the $500,000 something the house is on the market for.

The fact is, there are other things we have no knowledge of in this situation, and frankly, it is none of our business.

Just speaking in general, since we only know one side of the story and I won't begin to speculate on what's true or right or wrong here:

There is a tendancy to "blame the victim" that I believe is rooted in two things: first, being an over abundance of so-called business friendly agenda that upon closer examination boils down to industry lobbying to immunize themselves from all accountability to customers. The second is a psychological phenomenon known as the Stockholm Syndrome in which hostages identify with their captors. The "hostages" here are the other readers who too quickly blame the victim, probably because a survival mechanism makes us reluctant to side with the people we assume will lose. But this is not life and death, and it's perfectly safe to at least consider that the OP might be correct whether he or she "wins" or not.

Assuming the OP's story is accurate, the professionls involved were not at all professional in behavior. Real professionals fix their mistakes, if they make mistakes. Crooks masquerading as professionals rip people off, then blame them, and whine if any customer manages to hold them accountable.

No one is "blaming" the victim here. There is, however, such a thing as due diligence. If you are buying property it is up to the purchaser to make sure that everything is legal and correct. That's where the problem began, and it has nothing to do with "Stokholm Syndrome". That is not to say that others haven't made mistakes as well in this scenario, but the problem started with the person buying the property.

There is a trend in this country of people not taking responsibility for something that they were actually responsible for. There are also loads of crooks out there, I'm not disputing that.

I also saw some statements made earlier that the land owner "only" bought their land for an investment and weren't going to build on it anyway. Sorry, but that does not matter. It is (was) still their land. There were also statements made that the owner lived fairly close and "must" have known. Well, probably not. I don't always check on other vacant land that I have. Sometimes a year can go by. It depends on what is going on in my life. Bottom line is it doesn't give anyone making the mistake any more right to it. When someone thinks and believes in that manner, it's wrong.

I do not like "big brother" tactics, and I do not like banks. I also do not care for situations of people not accepting their role in whatever disaster has taken place.

If Kindell had hired a real estate attorney, who would be accepting responsibility in making sure the transaction had been correct, or a fresh survey, and THEN this mistake had happened, it would not have been her fault in any way.

Anyway, I'm done with this. I've got better things to do.

"You people just don't get it. Lawyers, courts, legal messes...since when is all this "normal"?! What these people have done is just devised another way to get more of Kindell's money. $65,000 spent and still increasing is absolutely absurd, not to mention the extreme stress involved."

In a legal fight you spend based on what is at stake.

No one wants to get stuck paying for a house they cannot occupy or use.

Depending on how much money is involved, $65k might not be unreasonable.

I have no idea how hard it is to get legal expenses paid by the loser in Texas (in Virginia it is VERY hard).

I feel sorry for Kindell since they had little experience, and it sounds like the 'pros' did not have much either.
An often dangerous combination.

Re: Sandy808's statement, "There is a trend in this country of people not taking responsibility for something that they were actually responsible for."

That should apply equally to people who hold themselves out there as "professionals."

Hi Kendell --

any updates?

I did not read the original posting, just glanced briefly on this one. I would suggest very strongly she go to the media, TV and get a very good young aggressive investigative reporter and name names, list companies and get the public behind them. Yes it works. This area did it with a veteran that had serious problems and the VA refused to do anything and now they will. Remember this is an election year.

Kindell,
I'm sorry to hear that this hasnt been resolved yet. Its been a while since I've been to the forum. I hope it all works out for your family.
cindy

Anybody know what happened here? Definitely puts "heavy" decisions about granite or windows into perspective!

It is a perfect illustration of why the blind leading the blind is a path to disaster.