Sometimes the homeowner can get to the point where everything said sounds like it's questioning either the knowledge or integrity of the installer. I'm not saying that's the way it is in your case, but rather, it COULD be and you don't even realise it.

I WILL say this, though-- if it's not the way you wanted, obviously there's been a misunderstanding, and it should be brought up and clarified. Otherwise it'll start festering inside you until you blow over something really stupid, and then no one wins. One thing, though-- handle it as a misunderstanding, rather than a screw-up. You'll most likely get alot farther. You said yourself in an area where there were no questions, he did a bang up job, which tells me it's not like he doesn't care about his work.

Wow this sounds a lot like what happened to us. We hired a man to do our bathroom --- he had done projects all over the house over many years and always did wonderful work. We had recommended him to friends and he did great work for them too. So, this bathroom starts and I lay out the piles of marble mosaic sheets -- there are ones that were light and ones that were dark and most in the middle like a bell curved distribution. I showed him the piles and made sure he understood and saw the differences. Well he and his helper proceeded to go from one end to the other and ended up with all the light tiles in one spot after the whole floor was laid. I was in the house and could tell they were rushing but I wasn't standing right over them watching and now I know I should have been.

I cried that night and didn't sleep at all. Next morning I had him take $2500 worth of marble mosaic off the floor and throw it in the dumpster. He didn't even concede that he had made a mistake! And what's even more amazing is that we didn't fire him right then. (I had already--full of trust from past experiences -- paid him for most of the work -- BIG mistake). Things got even worse after that. While waiting for new floor tile he started work on the powder room. I told him that the crackle tile needed to be sealed before grouting. I wrote a note and showed it to him. I also showed him the instructions on the box and the back of the invoice from the tile store. He proceeded to grout the first of the four walls with the dark colored grout, without having sealed. The tiles absorbed the dark and the lines all got dark.

That's when we fired him. It took that long for us to believe what was happening -- that this person we had trusted for years was either changed or totally over his head with respect to doing tile. It was a very bitter, costly and drawn out debacle. The demo was in January. We are just now getting the master bath finished -- by people who are superb. Quelle difference!!!

My heart goes out to you. Know that this kind of experience you're going through is, sadly, not unusual.

Sayde, my (unfortunate) compatriot. How much did it cost to fix? I ask because throughout our remodel, I've found that stories like yours are the most aggravating when it costs you not just time (gah!) and extra money to do it AGAIN (pffft!), but even MORE money because you have to pay to rip out the bad work. I hate the time wasted.Thanks for the commiseration though. While it all still sucks, it truly does help to know that the universe is not out to get just me.

Sometimes when I'm interviewing possible tradespeople, I wish I could ask politely if they are going to rip me off and eff up my house (either through ignorance, apathy, or malice...does it really matter?) and make me cry , can I just write them the check right now and at least not waste the time it will take for them to get it unbelievably wrong.

Bill,
As always, good advice. And I usually try very hard to phrase everything in either that way, OR the just-a-quick-reminder-not-that-you-need-it-and-I'm-sure-you-remember-but-just-haven't-gotten-to-"it"-yet kinda of thing. My inability right now to SAY that (cuz usually I say what will work, not necessarily what I think) is why my husband has taken away my cell so I don't say something we'll all regret.

I know mistakes happen. I actually do think that this (of course) wasn't malicious. But I DO think he is no longer listening to the customer/me (for whatever reason)...and this is the inevitable result. The way things are righ tnow, this almost HAD to happen - or something like it. If the patio had been tiled at the beginning of the project, I'm absolutely sure that this wouldn't have happened. He was much more open back then.

Now everything is a trial. Everything is dismissed. I was just hunkered down and praying for daylight until this. And (here we are with TMI), if he hadn't made me feel so awkward and uncomfortable for being in my own damn apartment asking about my own tile, this probably wouldn't be making me ballistic. (So I just kind of implied that it is okay to be b!tchy to me as long as you get the tile layout right. I need help. I'm not sure if I meant to imply that, but it doesn't sound wrong at this point.)

I need a very large icy adult beverage.

So, IS it possible to get these tiles up without damage? Underlayment is Wedi thinset to my concrete.

It's possible if he gets right on it. Curing thinset is a progressive thing. That bond gets stronger every minute, so the sooner he sets to "UNsetting" it, the more chance you have of not damaging any tiles.

I just went through this myself this past weekend. I misunderstood MY customer, and did a terrific job of setting a couple of shower walls straight when they should've been brick joint. Problem was, my customer was all the way down in Cape Cod, and I was about 3 miles from home in Maine when she called me to let me know. So I told her how to pluck the tiles off, and she and her husband pulled every other row off of Kerdi'ed walls, and we only lost one tile, even hours after the tile had been set.

See, even I make mistakes!!

Hours, huh? well then I don't have to worry until four days ago.

How tough is this going to be?
Can **I** do it?

If they've been set for 4 days, you might have a problem.

These tiles were very expensive, so here's a wacky idea to recover them:

Same tile guy got some thin-set on my tub deck. (There was a small gap between the blue tape and the wall.) I found it and got it up with almost no problem using Goof Off.

Some stuff hit the faucet thing that sticks out from the wall. I squirted a little Goof Off along the edge the cement-y stuff popped right off the brass.

Clearly Goof Off can dissolve the bond of the stuff used to tile in some circumstances.

I'm not kidding here: can I do this on a much larger scale out on my patio? Will the Goof Off - IF it does work - somehow damage anything? What are the issues to try this that I should be mindful of, if any?

(Tick, tock, tick, tock, now FIVE days....)

I feel bad for your situation. When we did our master bath we made 3 piles, 1st choice, 2nd choice, & under vanity. We taped signs above the piles so the tile guy or more importantly his helper would not get confused. We also wrote down our grout choices on a paper and taped it to the wall.
In our hall bath we used marble tile and we dodged a bullet. My wife and I pulled out 5 or so tiles and laid them out. They looked similar and were a nice light beige. We didn't think about looking through all the boxes. When the tile guy came I made a casual comment that my wife liked the light color. At the end of the day the tile guy called to tell me he was leaving. He said "I laid the darker tiles under the vanity." okay, thanks I said not thinking much. When I got home I saw some of the tiles were much darker and really stood out. Luckily they will never be seen and our tile guy made a good decision.

Oh, funnycide (death by being funny?), how I wish so hard that that was the case here. I'm so glad for you, though. You're tile guy deserves a cupcake for all of that, at least.

I sent a calm email early this morning. Among the highlights, I wrote:
- a brief description of that morning to jog his memory
- my firm decision that these tiles cannot stay on that porch
- a request for a "mini-break" so all players can return to a better equilibrium going forward
- that if he needed to get those tiles off ASAP (per Bill), that he should come after 12noon (so I could be there, but I didn't say that...for all he knew, the drywall guy needed to be there during that time, which has happened a little bit in the last ten days) but re-iterated the needing-a-break thing for the next little bit.

He didn't acknowledge the email. He came anyway. He came this morning instead of afternoon. He didn't remove any tiles. He left me a note to not do so either (which I wouldn't anyway, and wrote him in this morning's email that I would not without his say-so and instructions how to not damage the tiles or underlayment).

I know he read the email from this morning, given the contents of his note. And the fact that he didn't stay to work.

I don't think the way to handle a problem that stems from not listening to the customer (face-to-face)is to blatantly ignore what the customer requests (in an email).

It's kind of freakin' disrespectful at this point.

So the tiles are still there, still curing harder and harder, and now it is the weekend. Now what?

A contractor that I know who does extremely high-end remodels told me that his entire job now is following the various subs around making sure they actually do what they are supposed to. He told me that the phrase he uses most often as GC is "rip it out" followed by "do it again, and this time, according to spec." He says this is basically his whole day. Two million dollar reno he headed last year had three separate tile crews; only one actually finished the job, and even they had to rip out the whole foyer because they did 1/4" grout line instead of the 1/16" specified like a gazillion times, including five minutes before they started setting it. This GC (not mine, can't afford him, but he's fun for stories) also says he posts details specific to that area everywhere through a build, clearly, many copies, taped to walls so subs have easy reference, etc. Nothing - NOTHING - stops the "mistakes." Regarding tile, he has actually layed out the tile in the order to be set, layed out the room, snapped the lines himself, yada, yada, yada...and they still disregard it sometimes.

This is a guy who does beautiful, solid, conscientious work. And even he ended up on his knees, grouting 1200 feet of tile at 11pm because that crew just never showed to grout the final bit. (He did it himself to get the floor done in time for the next part of the schedule to start on time). For those of you who wonder, he never heard from them again (a respected crew in our town) even though they only got half the money. Think about that: they let go of HALF the money because they wouldn't show up to grout.

It's disheartening.

stw954-- DO NOT use the Goof Off. The same solvents that break the bond on the thinset already down, will also NOT ALLOW A NEW BOND, later.

He told me that the phrase he uses most often as GC is "rip it out" followed by "do it again, and this time, according to spec." He says this is basically his whole day. Two million dollar reno he headed last year had three separate tile crews; only one actually finished the job, and even they had to rip out the whole foyer because they did 1/4" grout line instead of the 1/16" specified like a gazillion times, including five minutes before they started setting it.

Where abouts are you? I might be able to give him a new guy who really knows what he's doing. I know many around the country.

I'm in DC, and it took me months to find this tile guy. It's incredibly hard in this city to find somebody willing to use anything other than Durock (I wanted Wedi), seemed meticulous, and understood that this is NOT a three day job. (Oh yeah, and answered all the "test" questions correctly, and thank you very much because I learned all the right answers from reading your contributions to this and other boards.)

For what it is worth, this guy seems to be truly good. My GC friend saw the bathroom (as far as it is completed, about 3/4) and even he was impressed, calling it true craftsmanship. Tile Guy plumbed a wall that wasn't quite on (and yes, they are supposed to but very few do), ALL the tiles on the walls are perfectly planer/flat (not just perfect joints), the outside corner (though only half finished) is hand done to a partial bullnose and perfectly polished.

Tile Guy is very very good at his job (except for the oopsie on the porch) BUT he obviously doesn't admit mistakes very graciously (tick, tock, tick, tock, FIVE days now and those tiles are out there still hardening) and part of the problem is he isn't very fast so this job has been going on for quite a while now. (About 350 sq ft total and - no kidding - more than two months.)

I don't know what it is about the DC area. It just seems really really hard. We're not rich and this town has a LOT of spare money, so that doesn't help.

The 1/4" vs 1/16" thing was NOT at my place...it was just a war story that this GC told me, sort of in the same vein as your straight-lay vs. brick thing.

Regarding the Goof Off: yup, this is why everyone should ask before getting "creative" with problem solving. (Now that I think about it, I seem to remember someone on johnbridge running into trouble because they used stripper to remove mastic from their concrete and now nothing would stick because the stripper coated the concrete and wouldn't wash off. Huh. Can't believe I didn't put that together with this.)

No word from him regarding the email I sent. It's weird that, if he finishes my job, I'm going to have this beautiful bathroom, etc. and yet I'm not sure I would recommend him to others. Between the huge time commitment and the 'tude when the chips are down...weird.

Just so happens I know a good guy in the DC area. In fact, he's one of the moderators over at John's site.

Bill, can you send me the contact info for your DC guy? My email is stevet954@yahoo.com.

(Sorry for the delayed request. I have been trying for the last two weeks to make Tile Guy happy enough to finish our job. Didn't work. It all ran off the rails quite badly.)

(I know a guy named Rob who is active on various forums, from this area. I didn't think he was a moderator, though. His reputation is stellar BUT a six month backlog.)

Steve-- I have a feeling you and I may be talking about the same guy. Rob Z.? Either way, email's been sent.

Steve's WIFE, actually. I just use his email on public forums like this in case bad guys who spam are around. (My email is still pristine, but his is getting already hit pretty hard with nasty rude email spam.)

Yeah, it's Rob Z that I know of. Our lease is up at end of January (which should have been more than enough time...but will be cutting it close now), so we just can't wait that long. (Our condo was sold and the new owner is waiting impatiently for our lease to expire...no No NO renewal possible.) Honestly, if we had two bathrooms, I'd just get on Rob's waiting list and make do, but we only have the one. It HAS to be functional. We can do without a working kitchen, we can throw the mattress on the floor, we can live out of boxes...but we have to have a working bathroom.

If you think of anyone else, please feel free to share. (You've got our email, now.) We're so screwed.

Not yet. I sent you another one.