How many revisions is normal after first initial plan?

15 years ago

We got our first floor plan from the architect in the middle of June. We made some revisions after seeing it. It took them a month to get the revisions completed. Several changes were moving doors, reworking bathroom layouts and adding a bar in the gameroom. The bigger revisions were shrinking the hallways from 60" to 52" and making the utility room a separate room all by itself, rather than having to pass through it when coming in from the garage. We are using a firm that has several architects. We were shown a copy of our e-mails that we sent to the lady and she responded in red as she made the changes. Well, at the top of the e-mail to the owner of the firm, she said any further changes would have to be ok'd with her. That our changes were very time consuming. She's getting paid to do this. We are very disappointed and let down by her. One of the areas we asked to be reworked was the master bedroom/bath area. Her solution was adding a separate toilet, therefore adding to the square footage. Then she placed a half-wall and desk as soon as you come into the master. We think she threw this together and did not spend much time on it at all. How many revisions are usually made or allowed before you get the perfect plan? What is normal? I e-mailed the owner last night stating our disappointment with the architect. We love the lay-out, just not how some areas are laid out. We're almost at the point of firing them. Please help!! We're using a firm out of Sugarland. I may need some suggestions of other people to use.

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Comments (11)

kulagal
15 years ago
Momtothree: We have gone through 4 revisions, so far, and will be getting our working drawings very soon - the ones that supposedly will be used to apply for a building permit. Not sure if this is "normal" but my DH and I spend hours and hours going over the plans, make lists of what needs to be changed and then have at least a 2-hour conference call going over all the stuff. We are doing this long distance. Since we haven't seen the last set of revisions yet it's hard to know if this will be the last round. That being said, I have to say that our designer has been very good (and patient)about dealing with our changes and additions - we also had a major revision in the master bedroom/bath area and he worked with us until we got it perfect, and he has said to us more than once that, "it's your house, I want you to love it" - so with that insight is it possible to work with another architect in the firm who will work with you to make it the way you want it? Are you way into the project and money invested that it would be impossible to get another architect? We really like our guy and couldn't possibly think of working with someone who was difficult. I would recommend him to you but he lives in Hawaii! Good luck and I hope you can find someone else in the firm that will be more accommodating.
mightyanvil
15 years ago
I solved this problem by refusing to do any more designing by email. (Yes, I predate email by quite a few years). Like in the old days, if people want me to design their home they have to sit down in front of the drawings with me so we can work it out together.
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I don't think they intentionally are pressuring us. I think some people are like, "Oh just pick something!" and lets get this started. We had a realtor like this once..she'd get miffed after showing us a house and then we'd say it wasn't the one. She said, "just pick something already!" Our builder is good..seen many of his houses. Most people here pick a cookie cutter houses that looks like every other cookie cutter house in town. I don't think he realized we wanted something different and expected it to be a fast process. I realize there are various ways to buy land and build custom. This was actually nice because a lot of legwork was done that we don't have to do..plot plans, approvals, etc. It's ready to go and a great lot in a super desirable area. Regardless, I was just curious about the architect process and how many times is reasonable to go back and switch things around. We completely switched the last plan all over the place. I'm still not sure this will be right..I keep having more ideas and am realizing problems as I look at the rough sketch.
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Thanks for taking the time to look. Yes the stairs are giving me fits. Both main floor and basement. I meet with my stair guy on Wednesday. I am not sure what that little area in front of the master is either, except that I like the idea of just not walking immediately into the great room. But if I put cabinets there along the long wall in the great room, or the see thru fireplace idea centered on the open wall to the great room, it might solve that problem and I dont need that wall. I dont "need" that wall anyways, dont know what it would be good for anyways. Maybe a little wall fountain or some sort of lighted art. Or lighted shelves. With the balcony above one might not feel on display to the great room when they walk out of the master bedroom anyways. The bath in the downstairs bathroom is more of a whimsical thing. I also thought since we have grandkids alot, that might be a good place for them to take a bath while I can be not too far away. The idea of the bathroom in that area, was to get it away from the foyer area which is where it was initially. But also that is my "mud room" area. We live in the country. We literally horse around alot, come in filthy dirty, so we needed a shower in the mud room area. Found the tub and loved it. Figured a tub wouldnt be all that much more of a big deal than a shower. But definite more of a whim thing. Just an extra bath for guests. But I see what you mean about being close to the dining area. One good thing, we hardly ever eat at the table, another reason for not having a formal dining room, but maybe that is why so many plans have a bathroom at the front of the house off the foyer. I just needed one close to where I come in from the garage, cuz I always have to go when I get home, and before I leave too it seems, and if I have been working outside, I am usually dirty. The garage bathroom was added after this room, but I still wanted to keep that bathroom in the mudroom/laundry area. I could switch it with the laundry room. But then you would be hearing the washer and dryer. I am a bit confused on the first floor #2, unless I uploaded a picture that I didnt mean to. :-? I like the idea of aligning the window with the hallway. The bathroom, that reminded me she forgot to make that tub a shower like the one in the basement. These are steam showers with a bit of a tub area at the bottom, not really a tub but could be used as one for the grandkids. That was also the thinking for rationalizing the downstairs tub, if a guest wanted to stretch out to take a bath since the upper and lower levels are only showers. The kitchen on the second floor, I keep telling her not a full kitchen. I just need a mini frig, microwave, small sink, and some sort of bar with stools. I have struggled with exactly how that should look anyways, and each time, she always has it looking the same so it is hard for me to figure out how it needs to be. I was going to put a galley of sorts along the wall on the right, maybe I should run it along the outside wall. I am really having a hard time with that space. I just need a small space for my daughter to keep quick snacks and drinks for her and her son while they are staying with us. She can have friends over and not feel like she is living at home. That is another reason why I opted for the outside stairs rather than back stairs inside. The slider will be on the left, window on the right. Just more of an apartment feel. Who knows, when she moves out, I might rent it out. I have another sister who would probably love to move her little girl out to the country. I think that is why this house ended up much bigger than we really really need. I feel the need to nurture everyone, take care of everyone, and with the economy so unstable, I wanted a place big enough to take in family if they ever needed a place to go. But also, if family just wants to come and visit, I want a place they want to come so they can enjoy the horses, enjoy the pond, enjoy just sitting on the porch, just being outdoors, and stay as long as they like because they dont feel cramped, and we dont feel cramped and wish they would just go home. Okay, babbling, Thank you for your suggestions. Going to look at it again :-)
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Ooh, a dish storage cabinet might be a nice addition on the cooktop wall. It would look nice to balance out the wall oven. I'm going to sketch that up and see how it looks. It's a little further away from the eating area, but not significantly. LiveWireO: I see your point, I just don't know how else we could reconfigure the space for the master. The view is stunning from the back of the house so I would hate to lose that. I will talk to the builder about adding insulation between the great room and the bedroom, or maybe doing an offset type of stud wall to increase the privacy. That's a good suggestion, and, I think, a better alternative to switching out the bedroom and closet space. I really don't want to change the footprint of the house , which I would have to do to put the closet or bathroom between the two rooms. GreenD: I've not thought about combining the mudroom and pantry area. They seem to serve such different functions I can't picture them combined. Do you have a link to the space you are referring to? Re: the split garage, our builder seems to like building them that way (most of their houses we've walked through or driven by have the split garage) because it makes the impact on the lot a little smaller and increases the curb appeal. It also allows us to position the house on the lot better to maximize the views. The advantage is that the garage will actually block the hot west sun and as we are building on a mountain bench it will keep the main house a little cooler during the summer. I probably wouldn't have included many (if any) windows on that side of the house anyway (hence the pantry and the cooktop on that wall) because they become a heat trap. Rhome: Thanks for the nice words. We are excited about this house. We've been saving up our favorite ideas from all the houses we have lived in and visited over the years, and have been lucky to find a builder who is excited to have our input. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that we actually do fill up that whole closet. I keep thinking I am doing well at purging, but when it was time to figure out where to put our clothes in this tiny rental I realized I still have a long way to go. I'm almost as excited about my laundry/sewing/project room as I am for my kitchen. I am tweaking that room too as I received an excellent suggestion about adding a door between our closet and the laundry room. Isn't that genius? DH was initially sad to lose three feet of hanging space, but once he walked through the idea in his head he was on board. Lisa: I agree that the prep sink needs to be moved over so I have landing room for both the fridge and the pantry. But I do want to keep it closer to the fridge and cooking zones. Do you all think it should stay on the side of the island by the cooktop, or moved to the side by the fridge? I'd appreciate your input on this. Either way, the trash/recycling pullout will be next to it. Thanks also for the QuietRock suggestion. I will do a little research and see if my builder has any suggestions. Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. I'll be checking in again on Monday. Our youngest turned 20 this week so we are going to celebrate by spending the weekend together.
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OK, here's a plan that might work for you. Fridge: I like it there as it's well out of the working space and can be accessed by the non-cooks for drinks and snacks Clean-up Sink & DW are the red squares. I think you might want to widen the pantry a tad so the door can be on the side facing fridge. This gives you a short wall where the DW door can be open without blocking anything. If that is visually unappealing to you, you could keep the door to pantry at an angle if you lengthen that wall. This would require moving the fridge down a bit but that's easy to do as then you can just move the door down closer to the corner. Either way, it gives you a good clean-up zone out of the main cooking areas. Clearance from fridge to prep/cook zones: In order to ensure that there is good clearance to walk around an open DW, you might want to move the island a few inches farther away from the fridge wall. The blue square is your prep sink. There is plenty of counter space for prepping plus if someone is prepping while someone else is at the range, each has their own space. Prep sink is still close to range for filling pots, etc. The poorly drawn, black square with dots/circles inside is the new placement for the range. The black square beyond that is more counter space. You don't want a cooking surface at the end of a counter as the space there can be handy and it also protects someone walking by from getting burned. I don't know if it works for you or if you'll want to tweak it a bit but I think this gives you good zones. It also follows ice-water-stone-fire, i.e. food goes from fridge to prep sink to prep counter to cooktop/oven. Search for a great post by Marcolo that explains this simple yet valuable concept further. You might want to move the prep sink down just a tad closer to the fridge wall, roughly centered between clean-up sink and range for better spacing. Hope this helps.
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obwannab
15 years ago
This is really not as bad as it sounds but we are our 3rd designer. Not design, not revision, designer. The first didn't work out due to some personality conflicts.

Our second was a very nice helpful person, who was patient and easy to work with. We almost got what we wanted(and many of you helped with our floor plan), but then it all fell apart on the elevation. What we wanted was just really beyond the scope of what she knew how to do. It was really turning into a waste of time and effort for both of us.

This third designer has been awesome. He's extremely talented, very patient and has been a real pleasure to work with. He managed to nail the elevation with a pen and some trace paper in 10 minutes sitting in front of us. I spent months with the other designer and still never got there.

We are so happy with the new design and elevation. I never felt that way about the other designs. It makes the nearly a year of frustration(and money) dealing with the other designers all worth it.

My opinion, keep after it until you get a product you love. If you can't get the love from this one, move on. It's worth it.
marthaelena
15 years ago
I am amazed that here, most of the times, the clients like our designs and we hardly have to change anything (that happend mostly in commercial design). My boss also have some clients that can not make up their mind and we change everything until they are satisfied.
Sometimes they call me directly and I change whatever they need, and email the changes to them with copy to my boss. That is what we do here.
We were helping a lady that wanted an addition and we had like six meetings (just for a porch but it was hard because she wanted a traditional stone porch in a contemporary house so we had to be careful) and we worked with her as may times as she wanted until the design was good. She is happy now.
momtothree
Original Author
15 years ago
marthaelena- You don't happen to be located in Houston are you? I've looked at several plans you critiqued and always thought your opinions on floor plans were right on. I hope we can find someone that will help us. We have two areas on our plan that need major help. One being the layout of the master bedroom/bath and the other is the foyer that we think is too big.
marthaelena
15 years ago
Sorry Momtothree,
Capital of Illinois here (central illinois)

I hope you find a good Architect.
Good luck!!!
mobrien242000
15 years ago
Momtothree,

We have had the same problems with our architect. We have paid for revisions 3 times, yet it still isn't what I have asked for. It is getting very pricey asking for changes, but then not getting what I want. Our architect charges by the hour. Our first meeting was in person, but since then it has been over the phone or through e-mail.

I've had such good suggestions from this group! You might try posting your floor plan and asking suggestions. They thought of things I never would have thought of until it was too late.

I'm still in the revision stage for small things. We broke ground today! Yippeee!!! It is raining now...Bummer...Hopefully it won't rain too much.

Good luck and don't give up until you have what you want!

Michelle
shelly_k
15 years ago
Oh my goodness. We went back and forth with our architect, numerous, numerous times making so many revisions. It was about a 4 month process to get the set of construction drawings and probably 30 different revisions sets. It was never a problem with my architect and he was always very responsive and timely with the revisions. I usually only had to wait a couple of days for new revisions. BTW, I worked remotely with him in Minneapolis, so much of it was done by email and only 4-5 face to face meetings.
mightyanvil
15 years ago
The face to face meetings are where the architect gets to know what you like and adjusts his thinking to accommodate it. It also allows the owners to be tactfully shown why some of their ideas are not as good as they might have initially seemed without taking the time to actually revise the drawing and send it by email.

Good design is always a collaborative process. Putting obstacles to clear communication between the parties involved should be avoided whenever possible.
mimi72
15 years ago
marthaelena,
So you are in Springpatch? I did my residency there. We are going to build outside of STL in Edwardsville. Do you know any good architects in this area? I interviewed 4 and decided on one but haven't signed anything yet, so if there's a hidden gem down here please let me know.
marthaelena
15 years ago
mimi,
Yes I am!
I know someone but I want to ask my coworkers, and get back at you. You are just about 1 hour and 20 minutes from here!
Good luck on your selection

How many revisions is normal after first initial plan?

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How many revisions is normal after first initial plan?

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