I went to a Local Tile store today and they are charging me
$7.90 per tile instaled.I feel it should cost me less then $2000.

This is the only thing I can comment on, but before I do, I need to know what exactly you're looking to do, and with what kind of tile. Heck, I know of tile that just to buy it runs about 450.00 a square foot. I also know of tile that costs 99 cents a foot. I've done work where I charge 5.00 a foot. I've also done work where I've charged more than 50.00 a foot. It all depends on what you're looking to do.

That said, $12K is not all that unreasonable for a bathroom renovation. Even $20K isn't out of the ordinary. Again, it all depends on what you want, and how you want it done. Saying "I want basic" tells me nothing.

Geee you are right
The tile is ceramic at $3.90 a foot and installed at $7.90.
I know I can spend $50 on a faucerts or even $1,000 on the faucert.
I am looking not cheap but maybe a few steps up lol.

I will probably get bashed, but I agree, contractors have got very fat over the boom years, people had too much money, too many home equity loans, and paid too much. Contractors got too busy and started raping people left and right. Customer satisfaction dropped and they got away with treating people like crap. I personally LOVE this down turn and high gas price environment...because it is finally bringing some reality back into the market. You do not have to stand for it, just get more estimates, and consider doing it yourself. It is not hard at all. Just do research, learn, read, and get some confidence. My neighbor paid $15K for a bathroom the contractor did in one week, and the only thing the contractor supplied was thinset (big deal). This is sickening. He does one job like this each week, and he is making $780K year...more than your local dentist. Be patient, things will turn in your favor.

What you should do is take control of the estimates. I prepare for contractors in my home a bidding sheet for all contactor estimates so I maintain control. If they do not agree before hand, they are not considered. You will be surprised that most have no issues with it. To get a sheet of paper with a number $12K on it, and text that says, "install customer tile", is unacceptable and many contractors are getting away with this. I just bid 4 contractors on my sisters bathroom, and I had 18 line items on my bid sheets. Each part of the job I required hours of installation and the rate. If is very easy to tell who is pulling your leg. Plus I had line items for material costs. When you compare the bids, you see right away who has their act together.

I am not sure I understand why are you even bothering to redo it? If it was a builder-basic to begin with why are you replacing it with more builder-basic? Builder basic styles have not changed that much in 10 years nor has the quality improved.

As Bill indicated, you get what you pay for. Once you decide to redo, set your budget of what you feel comfortable spending and plan accordingly. And don't start nickel and dime-ing yourself to death, either up or down with corner cuts or "its not that much more ...." For therein lies the dark side of The Force: once you start down that path forever will it dominate you destiny!

(just my 2 cents)

Well I have a chip in my sink and tub and I want tile on my walls.
The tile is cheap lamitated
I also have a cheap big mirror that I want to replace with a medicine cabinet....
Yep I know I can spend $50,000 - $100,000 on a bathroom.
But I think most know what I want
I live in the Poconos Pa. area and you have people comong from NUC thinking that they will make a killing.
I think most just want to redo their bathrooms at a fair cost(what is fair?>
Well I feel most still want to rip yea offfffff.Jt

I noticed a huge range among contractors. I got 4 estimates, and they ranged from $20,000 for 2 bathrooms (one 5'x 10', the other roughly 10' x 12')to $34,673 for both. The bids included everything except accessories such as towel bars, vanity lights, toilet paper holders and shower valve and faucet. They included all good (not luxury) quality products, like Corian, Kohler, Dal-Tile and Brighton cabinetry. All of the companies were reputable businesses with in-house crews and brick-and-mortar showrooms. All were licensed, bonded and registered with the Maryland Home Improvement Commission. Two were registered with the BBB.

I selected the company that had the best price, itemized my entire estimate without me asking, and allowed me to provide any materials that I wanted to (I saved over $400 a piece by buying toilets online, and they were totally cool with that). I just felt very comfortable with them, like they weren't trying to rip me off, and that they would do quality work and stand behind it. We actually ended up signing contracts for less than any of the quotes, b/c I want to provide eco-friendly cabinetry myself, and the toilets. I think your bids seem high. I live in the Baltimore/DC suburbs, in a fairly expensive area, so I would expect that the bids are somewhat high around here. I'd say to get a couple more bids, and let the bidders know you're comparing bids. I would also hesitate to go with someone who is not licensed and bonded. The beauty of it is that you're not obligated to anyone until you sign, so just keep looking until you like what you hear. Good luck! And wish me luck, b/c we haven't started yet, and I hope I'm not in store for a bunch of headaches!

Matt, man you nailed it. Guess your going to become a contractor, work little make millions, heck its easy.. And of course I see lots of contractors living in multi million $ homes... Geesh...

The tile is ceramic at $3.90 a foot and installed at $7.90.

So they're charging 4.00 a foot for installation? Even WITHOUT backerboard, I guess that puts me in the category of "rip off artist". My STARTING price is 5.00 a foot, as it is throughout most of the country. Can you get it done for less? Absolutely. You have people just starting out who want to make a name for themselves, and will price low to get the quantity of work. These are the same people you'll see month after month calling the landlord apologizing that the rent's late, but they'll have it together "next week".Others, who've BEEN in the trade for a while, can charge low prices because they're shortcutting you, doing things that you'd never even realise that are wrong, but save money on materials and time. If that's the kind of work you want, then TAKE that guy at 2-3.00 a foot. You can always redo it another couple of years down the road.

Good luck.

Just a quick note from personal experience-- Even here in town there are a couple of installers who will install tile with a base price of 3.50 a foot. They've TRIED to undercut me. They've been sitting home most of the time this summer. I'm working. Go figure.

I had 5 contractors bid on my master bathroom remodel. My house is 30 years old, so its not one of these huge luxury master bathrooms - 14 1/2' x 6', no tub. The first estimate I got was $50,000 - as I recovered from choking the guy tried to convince me that $50K was a normal price for a bathroom remodel and I would definitely get it all back in resale. This was last October - and I'm pretty certain that my house wasn't going to sell for $50K more than my neighbors just because I had a newer master bathroom, especially in this housing market! The next 3 estimates I got were between $30K - $40K - and none of these were for "luxury" materials - basic porcelain tiles, Kraftmaid cabinets, Delta/Kohler fixtures, etc. Do I think these contractors thought I was stupid - ABSOLUTELY! I eventually got one of them down to around $27K, but only after settling on lower-end fixtures and finishes - I decided that for $27K I should not have to settle for lesser quality and a "basic" bathroom.

I ended up going with a highly recommended handyman-type and I paid $21K and actually ended up with some higher-end options that the other contractors were not even including in their estimates. Yeah, it took longer than it would have taken with one of the other contractors, but was definitely worth it. My bathroom looks incredible, so it is not ALWAYS true that "you get what you pay for" - do not just assume that is so just because people like to say it. You just need to find someone who isn't still inflating their prices from the housing and renovation boom that is long gone now, and who is willing to charge you a fair price for labor without marking up all the materials. There are definitely unscrupulous contractors out there that will charge you whatever they think they can get away with, maybe even more now that they have less business and are trying to make up for the loss in income. Just because they charge more doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a better end product.

I agree with the customer needing to manage the estimate process. I would never accept a "price" only. If your contactor is afraid to itemize and show detail, send him packing. They should be confident in their price and have nothing to hide. Their rate is their rate, and is not something to be hidden. You are crazy to spend that kind of money without any detail behind it. And you need to properly qualify your contractors and have the correct paper work and administrative steps in place >>> proper licenses, references, insurance, documentation, payment schedule, warranty, start date, estimated completion date, process to handle unknowns or additions, etc, etc. And be leary of a contractor that has no verifiable address and uses a PO Box. If you have issues, this will make taking legal action very difficult or impossible. Protect yourself and remember you are the customer, you have the control. Be present during the job, question things that do not seem correct, and stop the job when required.

mcu12 - You bring up a good point that "you get what you pay for" should not be taken TOO literally. Obviously, some common sense needs to come into play. But you spent $21K on a bath which, although much less than $50K (ridiculous!), is still a significant amount of money when you consider it. It's not like you just hired some random person off the street because they were going to do it for pennies. You admit that it took longer, and I'll bet you had to invest more of your own time and effort in the process as well (making decisions, overseeing). I personally agree with you that it's worth it, and that's the option I chose as well. But for some people a quick turnaround and the ability to let someone else worry about everything are priceless.

Bottom line - Shop around, do your research and don't settle.

"Guess your going to become a contractor, work little make millions, heck its easy.. And of course I see lots of contractors living in multi million $ homes"

It is not "easy," but in my neighborhood, most contractors drive around in newer and better cars, have bigger nicer homes with better landscaping, and have extravagant work trucks (you know, the suped up Ford F-350). Just an observation. And all of it is make believe and part of the scandalous lending practices over that past 10 years. But hopefully this will not occur again. Is is very reassuring to see cash lending firm up, and contractors coming back down to earth.

I may sound harsh, but I have seen many get burned and got caught up in it too. I was smart enough to resist jumping into the frenzy and waited. Several years ago I saved enough money and wanted to install an extension, between having no contractors show up, missed appointments, NO return calls, telling me they are backed up for one year, throwing crazy windfall estimates at me, total arrogance, etc. I am loving their pain now.

Sign yourself up on Angie's List as it is a great resource for homeowners trying to avoid a bad job at a high price. For a modest bathroom redo/update that does not involve moving the plumbing, a qualified handyman can do the job just fine. When you find someone you like and can have an honest conversation with, FIRST tell him your budget (ok, maybe 10% under your budget) and let him propose to you what you can get done with that amount of money. My handyman saved me boodles of money by letting me deal directly with his usual countertop manufacturer, etc. I too did several Lowe's bathrooms (but with my own handyman) and their mid-level products are just fine, look great, work great, most people think I spent way more than I did. Read the customer comments on Angie's List it is a great way to find the right person.

I think I agree with Bills feelings. I just redid my bathroom. Did a lot myself but needed to bring in the experts. I even toyed with doing the tile work myself but you quickly learn that if the room does not have a proper subfloor you can have creaks or worse cracks. You do have to pay for someone's experience. Anyone could put some tile down and call it a day. Will it last, will it chip. These are the things that take experience and not just a handyman who does many things. When we had to run new lines in my wall the plumber found work not up to code and had to be fixed. The electrician and I found dangerous wiring that was done on the house-probably to save a buck. I would not have instantly seen this and a handyman may not have known it either. I do agree you can shop around and should! Get recommendations from friends, etc but you do get what you pay for.

My guy did bring in a plumber and electrician. But the demo, drywalling, cabinet installation and tiling can absolutely be left to a good handyman. With the other contractors I would have been paying for the fancy showroom, the overhead (rent, salesmen, accounting offices, secretaries, company cars, etc), and a crew of laborers likely with no more experience than the handyman I used. Sorry, I don't consider any of that "getting what you pay for"!

I do agree that you should get reliable recommendations and a detailed breakdown of the estimate - what I found was that the contractors were marking-up the material cost by ~100%. At the end of the day, the breakdown of my $21K remodel ended up being $13K for materials, $4500 for handyman, $2500 for plumbing, $1000 for electric. Hope that helps & best of luck to you in your remodel!

maybe even more now that they have less business and are trying to make up for the loss in income.

How about more because every piece of material we use has an "energy" or "fuel" surcharge attached to it, not to mention the fact that our OWN fuel has skyrocketed? Use to be 2 years ago, I could fill my truck for about 45- 50.00. That very same tank of gas now costs me about 125- 130.00, and I go through two of them a week! I've raise my prices all of an average of 25 cents a foot. Now, YOU TELL ME-- WHERE THE HELL ARE WE RAPING OUR CUSTOMERS????????? Believe me, if my prices kept up over the last four years with the cost of living, nevermind the increases in MY cost of operation, I wouldn't be able to find work ANYWHERE!!

Sorry, but I'm really taking offense to this thread.

It is not "easy," but in my neighborhood, most contractors drive around in newer and better cars, have bigger nicer homes with better landscaping, and have extravagant work trucks (you know, the suped up Ford F-350). Just an observation. And all of it is make believe and part of the scandalous lending practices over that past 10 years. But hopefully this will not occur again.

Yeah, God forbid a contractor really makes something of himself!! I mean hell, he's not supposed to work on his own home and save himself some money, while building his equity!! The NERVE of that SOB!! He should be down at the bar with the REST of the dirty slob drunks!!

But the demo, drywalling, cabinet installation and tiling can absolutely be left to a good handyman. With the other contractors I would have been paying for the fancy showroom, the overhead (rent, salesmen, accounting offices, secretaries, company cars, etc), and a crew of laborers likely with no more experience than the handyman I used. Sorry, I don't consider any of that "getting what you pay for"!

That's all well and good, so long as you don't run into problems. But just in the case of the tile, you think your handyman has HALF the knowledge on how to PROPERLY correct any problems that might come up that I do?? And I don't have any fancy showroom overhead, but I guarantee you'll pay more for my services than you would for your handyman. And that's just the tile, nevermind the REST of the trades you listed. Trust me-- you got what you paid for.

Bill, I do not think anything was directed at you. But I agree, when the contractor makes more than your dentist or heart surgeon, things are way out of control.

And as mentioned, it was all brought about by a frenzy...people had tons of low interest money...and new construction/home improvement sky rocketed and this demand far exceeded the supply of contractors. And many (far too many) contractors took advantage of this. When the hourly rate of a contractor is $300 per hour, what is up? It was a case of excessive behavior in our nation. People gutting perfectly nice new kitchens installed 2 years ago for upscale granite and stainless, all to jump on the new trends. I knew people who gutted perfectly fine bathrooms to jump on the travertine craze. Now they are paying the price...both the contractor and consumers. Do I care they are bankrupt and in foreclosure...no, not really. Do I want the government to bail them out...certainly NOT.

Overextended. It is all part of the new American culture...do not save, spend, excessive, do not care about your neighbor, and so on and so on. As the greatest generation slips away, it is replaced by something very different.

mowers, about 13 years ago, I lived in south Florida, and did some work for a cardio-thorasic surgeon in Coral Gables. Trust me-- I don't know of a single contractor who makes as much as this guy. He took us during a lunch break one day down the road to his warehouse. This thing was the size of a football field, and had shelves, LOADED with collector Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Mercedes, Porches, Lancias, and so on. There had to be hundreds of cars there, and the cheapest one there was a Plymouth Superbird.

Are there contractors who consider themselves God's gift to the homeowner and bill accordingly? Absolutely. Just as there are in all other professions. That's one of the good things about what we're going through right now.

I've said for about the last 4 years over in John Bridge's Pros forum that I couldn't WAIT for this to happen to the economy. It was inevitable, just a matter of when, and as far as I was concerned, the sooner the better, because it would clear out all those who've gotten into it strictly for the money. Yes, one can make a good living from construction, and rightly so.... SO LONG as full value is given for monies received. I'll tell you right now-- I DO know general contractors who are WORTH 300.00 an hour. Not many, but they're out there.

As for the bailout, I PRAY that they don't get bailed out!! I had to learn the hard way in 1990. Now it's their turn. They learn nothing if someone helps them up. They just do it all over again, figuring someone will help again.

Bill -- your Porches typo made me remember an applicable joke

This pretty blonde teen was raising money for her cheerleader squad, and so went to a really nice neighborhood door to door to do "handy" stuff. She came to the first house, and when an elegant looking gentleman in his 50s came to the door, she introduced herself and what she was doing, and asked for work.

"Well" the homeowner said "My porch needs painting. How about $50.00?"

"Okay! Deal!" said the teenager. Smiling, the homeowner said "The paint and brushes are in the garage - let me hit to door opener so you can get them."

"What are you doing?" asked his wife. "Does she know the porch goes all the way around the house??"

"Honey, its right there for all to see. I think you are being very unfair ... just because she is a blonde.

"Okay. Maybe your right. I hope she has friends."

About an hour later, the doorbell rang again and when the homeowner answered was shocked to see the girl there, announcing she was done.

"Already???" he asked

"Yes" she said. "There was even extra paint, so I gave it two coats."

Stunned, the homeowner stepped out to look at the porch

"By the way" said the girl "Its not a porch. Its a Lexus."

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

Geeee the walls in my bathroon are in good shape (house is 10 years old>and would not want to gutting perfectly good walls like the first contractor wants to do.
My bathroom is like 11X6
In the Poconos I have bought a nice french door with Blinds in them and most want at least $1000-$1500 to insatll the door,but a local store and now out of business sold me the door at the same prices as all the others but he installed the door for Only $200.
Same thing with my Bruce wood floor he installed was %5 a foot installed while lowes and a few others wanted $9 a foot for the install.
geeeeee I even had a Old man around 80 years old that did a very long walk way in concrete for me...Cost me $600 and I know if I have it done in NYC it would have cost me well over $2000 or more.

But as I said this looks like a very simple job(but can be wrong lol>
change the tub and shower same layout with plumbing.
Well the sink and vanitie and medicine chest and toilet and vent fan...
The Ceramic tile store I was shopping in gave me the name on a contractor they use.
I am sure the contractor will be fine because the Tile store has been in business for at least 20 years and they
work together on many jobs.The BBB gave them a very good rating
But the tile I liked was at $3.90 a foot and if they install it $7.90 a foot.
Yep I know I can buy tile from $1 - $100 afoot.

As I said before everything is under $2000 at Lowes
and the Tile installed will be less then $2000 for the install
I just missed the local contractors call on the price
Hope I get the call from him tomorrow or I will call him...
I think this should be no more then a 2 or maybe 3 day job.
Only thing he is doing is installing the things I bought..........JT

Hey, Johnny -- take a few less sedatives and the contractors might not view you as such a easy mark.

Talking about excessive behavior. I knew many people that changed out corian tops (new) to replace with granite, and to boot, got new stainless appliances. Their one year old appliance they tried to sell for pennies on the dollar. And others had to get onto the band wagon and change out their washer and dryers to get the new front loading versions in the LG stainless collection. Or other fancy colors. In my opinion, they deserve financial stress now from extending themselves above their means. And oh, bathrooms, that is another story all together. Hope they are saving for retirement or their kids education.

Bill - sorry if I offended, I wasn't referring to the skilled trades people, but rather the large design/build contracting firms that were charging $50K for my basic bath remodel. As you've said, there were some unscrupulous contractors out there who were able to charge anything they wanted for a while because anyone could get a home equity loan and the housing values were going up no matter what. In my experience, some were still banking on that just last October.

I certainly did not mean to imply that ALL contractors are this way. But frankly, I was offended by several of the contractors I met with who treated me like I was stupid. Maybe you think I got what I paid for, but you have not seen my bathroom, nor do you personally know of the work of my handyman. I don't think its appropriate for ANYONE to generalize that ALL contractors rip you off OR that ALL handymen can't do a good tile job! There are plenty good and bad of both.

Boy, lots to digest here, but I think it all goes down to understanding what you want and really digging deep into the estimates. I agree that some contractors charge way too much, but some just don't want to do small jobs, so they charge high to cover their "inconvenience." I wonder if a total remodel is needed -- why not just change out sink, counter vanity, add tile, etc. -- could save a lot! Good luck!

allison1888
you are soooo very right.....
My one piece Bath Shower is in very good shape(I will add a new shower head.
As for the vanity and sink(it looks very easy to do>
I am sure the Medicene cabinet will be easy to insall along with a new toilet.
As for the floor,My brother has done great work on his floors a few times and he said he will do it for me.....
The walls for now will just get a paint job and maybe very soon will will do the wall in tile but the floor will have tile for now.....
The third guy that came over to give me a price.
Said if i buy everything at lowes ,he would install everything for $5500......

Yep I am glad I will be doing the work myself after getting prices from different people.
The Cost will be under $1000 to do it myself....JT

Third guy was going to do everything for $5500 EXCEPT the tileing.
UPDATED

mowers said "But I agree, when the contractor makes more than your dentist or heart surgeon, things are way out of control. "

Are you basing this off of Matt's faulty economic picture. I will bet you the cost of the bathroom renovation the contractor he's talking about grosses nowhere near $750k let alone nets that!

Let's say a contractor does make more than the dentist or doctor or lawyer or accountant, why is there anything worng with that as long as they are compentant, trustworthy, polite, do a good job for you? Back in the middle ages contractors were pretty high in the pecking order, doctor's were pretty much at the bottom and the accountants were at the top. France's chief accountant Fouquet built a palace many though better than Versallias and was promptly strung up. Now, doctors are high on the depth chart, accountants pretty much in the middle and contractors at/near the bottom? My point is SO WHAT, are these rules fixed and un changeable? What about atheletes? Your help pay thier million dollar salaries if you live in a city with sports venues apid for with public funds. What do they do for you, especially if you don't attend the games? I mean I can see a pee wee baseball game down the street for free on a field paid for by private funding and it doesn't cost me a dime. It's as good and the same thing as seeing the Yankees play in the Bronx...............right???

Bill V. is right, you get what you pay for, there are also sham contractors out there as well as rip off artists. Crappy lawyers and accountants exsist too - remember Enron? Some dentists molest their paitients (what if one was your kid?) and some doctors don't know or can't remember what they're doing. Overhead also plays into the price we pay. A contractor with an office/showroom and ability to deliver timely jobs cost more than the guy with just the new F-350, and both cost more than the dude working out of the 78' Bronco. How many trips to the tile store for the material is broncoman going to make? The f350 can haul a lot of tonnage. Same goes for lawyers. Covington & Burling in D.C. is going to have an hourly rate double what your big city firm does and 10x more than the country lawyer I grew up with. Does that make them rip off artists. It costs the same $$$ to file suit, or a home deed in your locale, but you bill WILL be way more if C&B does it as opposed to my friend. Both will make "good" money doing it. Does that make CB "ripoff" artists? What about my friend, he's not the cheapest attorney in his town.

Ain't America great???

I personally like to see my contractors driving fancy big trucks...see I don't drive one, and I have some "stuff" (cabinets, floors, walls, blah blah blah) that needs to be brought to the site so I can have a nice home. If he was driving a volkswagon I'd be SOL now wouldn't I? He has reliable transportation...and he can ummm do his job? Sheesh I say we shoot him on the spot!

Why are contractors, who ARE skilled trades people, not make whatever the market will bear. In up markets they'll make good money, in down markets, a good one will live somewhat on their savings from the up market. They live in very market driven worlds, and the good ones live in this type of up and down economy for years and years.

Heck I'd hire a contractor driving a Bentley if they could get a sheet of drywall in it :oP

You're projecting a stereotype that Bill answered well. You don't want to see your contractor living as well as you do you? Or even better because he deserves to be paid for his skilled labor?

Design build firms do more than just slap up drywall. They also DESIGN and should be paid for this knowledge. Contractors do more than just slap in studs...they learn in general most of the trades, deal with issues with permiting, design issues when changes have to take place, etc. They're entitled to pay what the market will bear, and they're entitled to be paid well for it. It's risky labor (their L&I Rates are a huge cost) and they also are entitled to be paid for the management of the job.

If I could pay a contractor to come in and get my masterbath done in a week...I'd be happy to pay him a huge bonus for doing it right! Mind you, I KNOW that guy isn't doing a job like that every week, but you go ahead and assume what you wish.

My master bath is coming in around $70,000. I have expensive and basic materials in the room, but also had significant trade work (plumbing and electric as well as tile). It's not an unreasonable cost, and I feel great about the people who are doing it. And I'm happy to pay them whatever it takes to get the job done. Guess I got raped as well...since the tile install was over $10 sq ft...but umm wait, that was the third tile install. The $3 sq ft guy ruined 80 sq ft of tile. The $6 sq ft guy built the shower pan wrong and cut the tub wrong...another grand in new tile...and the over ten guy (depends on the tile) He installed it right the first time....YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!! My second bath (powder room) was around $8,000 (3x7) and the family bath...I think it will come in around $20,000. All are gorgeous and will last years because I had skilled labor working on the job.

To contractors who read this....I'm sorry you have to deal with this type of stuff. It's wrong. You're professionals...skip this work and move on to customers who appreciate your work :o) We're out there all over the place!

I remember I once said in front of a mommy group (I didn't fit in LOL) when one of them pointed out a job that would be "great for me". I didn't really think, but just said "They couldn't afford me" and got shocked looks. After all, I'm just a girl banker...so I should get what? Peanuts for pay? I made very good money, because like your contractor, I was skilled labor. ALmost three years out of the job market and I still get six figure offers...why? Because people with skills know what skills, in any industry are worth.

I think it's fair to say, "I can't afford what the bids were so I have to work on a way to make it happen" but to say that the trades people are crooks, and don't deserve any success for their hard work, that deserves nothing more than an appology to the trades.

I don't mind paying good money for a good contractor, I just have trouble determining who a good contractor is. I was going to hire a well-known and respected contractor until an inspector I hired to look at a previous job he did found that he flashed the entire brick steps against the house incorrectly. The inspector said the entire brick job and siding will need to be replaced in several years due to water damage because of that improper flashing.

This is why this forum is such a good resource. I can just ask Bill or someone about a specific issue in order to double check things. For example, the time Bill wrote that I don't need any kind of quarter-turn tile for the window edges. I went back to my contractor and he said, "you're right".

BillV and igloochic, I totally agree with you. The shady contractors out there actually feed and thrive on people's obsession with getting a bargain price instead of a fair price. True, sometimes you can get more than what you paid for; sometimes you will get a free lunch; but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

I absolutely agree with Igloo and Bill. If someone is good at what they do, they should be compensated accordingly. I don't care what my contractor drives or where he/she lives....who cares... if he/she can travel to France with what I've paid...and they've done excellent work...well, why not?

...on the other hand, I really do resent being charged more by some because of where I live and what I drive...which has happened...I think everyone should pay the same for the same work. But that's a whole other thread.

While I would of course like to be able to afford more renovation of my house, I have NO problem with tradespeople earning a great living. Heck, if I were younger, I'd go into a trade myself.

Tradespeople ARE knowledge workers! Who knows how to do this stuff anymore? I know a lot of intangible stuff, but I would LOVE to know how to create a thing of tangible beauty and utility.

Well after the few contractors that came in
One wanted to Gut the walls
and the other 2 wanted to leave the walls up since they looked good(house is 10 years old)
I cannot see putting a $12,500 - $20,000 Plus in a home in the Poconos.
I went to Lowes and Bought a vanity,Sink,toilet and all the other little things for around $1000.And I had a 10% coupon.
And the Tile will cost me around the $1500-$2000....
I feel the bathroom look great and will save a ton of money.
Cost will be $2500-$3000.
Vanity and toilet are easy to install....
Glad I seen what these contractors are about,,,,,
With the way the economy is,I am sure they have a lot less business.You would think they would try and be more fair with their prices.
Yep they all gave me prices but nothing on paper that I can look at and compair......Jt

I feel the bathroom look great and will save a ton of money.
Cost will be $2500-$3000.

Glad to hear it.

Can't wait to see the results. Please, oh please Johnny, post before and after photos. PLEASE ....

If you only want a "face-lift" - that is not moving anything and just replacing existing fixtures and re-tiling, then it seems to make sense to either do the updates all by yourself or to hire a pro tiler to do the tiling and do the other work yourself. I do think that based on what I've read here over the years that trying to get a contractor do come in to do a job like that is more costly than it should be. If I wanted just a face-lift and I wasn't able to do it myself I'd try hiring a pro tiler to do the tile and then hire a "handyman" to install the toilet, vanity, etc.

I'm in the middle of a DIY master bath remodel. I've just started tiling the shower - it's a LOT of work to do it right, especially if you have a recessed niche like I do, and you're using accecnt pieces, and if you want it to look really good. I spent hours getting the two granite shelves and the travertine tile measured and cut and attached EXACTLY right for the best effect. The trim pieces that frame the niche had to be mitered and that was time consuming to get it right, and I wanted the grout lines on the trim and on the inside side pieces to line exactly, so that took lots of time, etc. I made at least 8 or 9 trips from the bath (upstairs) to the screen porch (downstairs) where the tile saw is set up, just for the tiles for the niches.

I have a HUGE appreciation for the amount of work it takes to do this - though of course I expect the pros who are really good can do it MUCH faster than me. I'm just hoping my final results will be close to as good as Bill or Mongo could do.

Oh, I also meant to add - I don't care about how much pros make to do what they do, or how they live, etc. I do care about the cost though so if it's a job I can do myself I ask whether it one I WANT to do myself and how long it will take me and whether I'd rather pay x amount of dollars to a well qualified pro to do it or spend y amount of dollars and z amount of hours to do it myself. If I do hire a pro - as I did for residing my house in vinyl siding, and for re-shingling the roof - I do lots of research to find someone who's work is really high quality and then I pay them whatever they charge. All around my area I see HORRIBLE vinyl siding jobs - we're talking all puckered and bowed and UGLY. My siding is totally smooth and straight and looks really good - well worth the money, imo.

Only thing I am doing is Replacing the Vanity,Sink,toilet and medicine cabinet by myself,,,It looks very simple to change.
Cost at lowes was $1000
The Tile
I have the Tile store Installing all the tile from the floor and wall to wall and from floor to Ceiling.I think I will get a great dealing with them doing the tile work.They did the people that live next to me and they do great work..
Cost $1500-$2000 Installed
Everything is cheaper in the Poconos,but I am sure it would cost lots more if I lived in NYC or other big citys.

As I said before I wanted a basic Bathroom done.
When I had the first guy come in and said it would cost me $20,000 Plus with him shaking his head and smelling alcohol and calling me the next day saying that it would cost HALF less then he said the night before.....
Geeee from a Bassic bathroom wanting to get done and these
contractors want to do big jobs....

So betweem $2500-$3000 the bathroom will be done except the showerTub,,,,not a bad deal

Everything is cheaper in the Poconos,but I am sure it would cost lots more if I lived in NYC or other big citys.

I'm in a town of 2500. The closest thing to a city is an hour away, and that's Portland, Maine, population 65,000, +/-. My prices still start at 5.00 a foot.

I know installers from rural central Pennsylvania. The prices there aren't any different from here.