Well, I think its helpful to provide more details on why you feel that FF isn't good ... instead of just coming in and saying they stink and then leaving. Facts, details ... not just cranky complaints. I recently bought 10 trees from FF and was quite pleased with them all. Now, I live in CO and my options locally are very limited. FF, even shipped, was extremely price competitive with what I could get locally. If I lived in OR, like you, I would probably buy locally because of all the choices I would have by comparison. The way I was treated on the phone, on 4 different occasions, was extremely courteous and they really wanted me to be happy. They were in no rush to get me off the phone and they even called me long distance twice to give me updates. They talked me out of buying several things because they told me that the trees they had were not up to snuff. The owner, ray, personally checked the condition on my items and was the one to tell me the bad news on a few of my selections. They were extremely honest of the condition of the trees they had. I told them I wanted columnar evergreens ... and they made good alternative suggestions to me. Even things not on their website. I was amazed that they always knew my order #, always remembered (had document somehow) the things I told them on earlier calls. I got to select alternatives, backups to those ... and they made it really easy and really personalized. They helped me save money on shipping and kept that cost savings in mind throughout. So they also suggested that they ship it on a Monday so I would be assured to have my trees for planting on the following weekend. Then the items shipped from OR to CO in 3 days ... I was thrilled. They let me change the dates 3 times and never a complaint ... just whatever I wanted was fine with them. Only 2 small broken branches among all 10 trees ... so again, I was impressed. And knowing that at the local (HD) hardware store, pretty much even single tree is broken in multiple places (by comparison). So my experience was good, for the reasons I mentioned above. And yours was bad ... because ? I guess you were pissed because they were smaller than expected and overpriced compared to (??) what you get elsewhere, but didn't say. So maybe it doesn't make sense for you to order from them. But coming to gardenweb and creating a negative thread about FF ... basically flaming them with little details added ... seems kind of like 'buyers remorse' more than a real problem with FF, IMHO. And then you basically made it sound like the rest of us (who have had good experiences with them) are just kind of braindead zombies that support them is kind of insulting and lowers your own credibility. How could you know so much and say to little ... based on what ... one order? How about talking facts and slinging less mud?

As promised, I'm back with an update. It is now working! but I'm not sure what really fixed it, or if it maybe just fixed itself. I know what I did and what order, thus what didn't fix it. I did the router/modem unplug/wait thing and rebooted...no help. CCleaner-no help disc clean-up via accessories-no help reboot-no help updated and did full scans using Super-antispyware, and Spybot Search and Destroy, and Malwarebites Anti-Malware Nothing of any significance was found via the scans and after checking for updates and running that many scans I couldn't say for sure if I rebooted between each one or not. I just know it took a long time. I ran the Malwarebytes last and only cookies were found and I discovered the Hotmail started working during the scan. I'm now a happy camper but have a new question for a new thread. Thanks again Zep. At least my computer is all updated and clean. Lastly last night I even went and did updates on Windows as I don't like having them set to automatic. Sue

Carol (re: Antique Forum)-- If you go to the top of this page, and click on "Forums" you'll get the list for all the GW forums. I visit the Knitting and Crochet and Sewing forums, too. I've just been reading a lot on the history of quilting, so this is a timely discussion for me. Here's what I've learned: At the time of the Revolutionary war, quilted bedcoverings were just beginning to come into vogue. Quilting itself had been done for centuries prior to this time, but almost exclusively for clothing--it's speculated that it started as padded clothing for wearing under armor. Most of the applique from that period was "broderie perse". This involved purchasing a length of printed chintz, then cutting the individual motifs out and appliqueing them onto a muslin, silk or wool background fabric. This allowed you to buy a relatively small piece of the printed fabric and still get a large quilt out of it. The appliqued top was then quilted, often with trapunto and other elaborate details. An out-growth of broderie perse became popular in Baltimore. Baltimore Album quilts feature very fine applique, but in the form of unique designs formed from many bits of cloth. These were often made by the friends and family members of young women as wedding gifts, especially among the wealthier families. They were also made as parting gifts for families that were leaving the area to homestead on the frontier. In other parts of the country, where this technique wasn't popular, wedding quilts would have been pieced. On the frontier, where fabric was at a premium, quilts were made from the scrap bag, using remnants left-over from clothing construction. It is very unusual to see a pioneer quilt made from just a couple of fabrics that were obviously bought just for that purpose. Some families were very serious about preparing hope chests and a young woman wasn't considered ready for marriage until she had a certain number of quilts finished and stored in her hope chest. I've heard of as many as a dozen being considered necessary by some demanding mamas. The Amish families that I know of have no requirements for quilts or hope chests, nor do their quilts look like those that we traditionally consider "Amish" with solid, bold colors. Amish quilting in the late 21st century underwent a big change as it became a lucrative source of income for families struggling to make ends meet. Modern Amish quilts tend to follow current color trends and are often made for the retail market. Amish women do make quilts for themselves, but the examples I've seen look no different than any other contemporary quilts. I think that we really begin to see quilting as a necessity slowly begin to taper off after WWI. By the late 1800s you could buy ready-made bedding that was of reasonably good quality and inexpensive from at your local department store. Mail-order companies made it possible to buy them even in remote areas. Interestingly, this is the hey-day of the crazy quilt, which is made from silks and velvets and is a silent testimony to the fact that the maker had time to spare for making a completely impractical quilt and could afford to buy expensive fabrics to have her clothing made from. It was a subtle way of showing your friends and neighbors that you were a woman of leisure. During WWI, women began to enter the workforce to fill the gaps left by the soldiers and had less time for time-consuming tasks like quilting. In the 20s, it was definitely less popular because it was seen as old-fashioned at a time when society was rushing head-long into the technological age. Women, who finally had time-saving devices like vacuum cleaners and gas and electric ovens, simply lost interest in quilting. In spite of this, it doesn't die out and a major resurgence of interest occurs during the Depression and the second world war as it was a way to both save money and provide warmth for your family. It contributed to the war effort, freeing up fabric mills to make fabric for the troops. In response, flour, sugar and feed companies made their bags from fabrics that could be used in quilts. However, after WWII, quilts takes another fall in popularity and quilts from the late 40s, 50s and 60s are very uncommon. With the Bi-centennial in 1976, interest again increased and it has been on up-swing ever since, but with major changes in techniques, style and purpose. There is no need to make quilts for your hope chest so now quilting is a labor of love or a means of personal expression. I think the best quilts are both. Annie

I agree with most of the replies here...and I am one who sits in my sewing room with the TV off 98% of the time....but, this week we got up-graded to HD...all kinds of re wiring and boxes and I can't help but wonder if TV as we have used it is going away. Networks must be really struggling to keep viewers...dumbing down to reach the lowest common denominator.... and if you have these new boxes, you never have to watch a commercial (so where are they going to get their $$$$ to pay those million $ faces? and million dollar ball players? Movies???? WOW...if they were making good ones (not many in my opinion) they are really cheap (and I pop my own salt free popcorn). We have only had it a few days, but I have seen 3 movies...without commercials; one very good but didn't make it at the box office and I am glad I spent the time to watch. I do watch Tuesday nights....NCIS (Mark Harmon I have always loved) and NCISLA...beginning to love those beautiful faces....and the endings are always neat. Somehow, I just can't get interested in TVLand....but I can get all sorts of BBC reruns that often never played in the US. Sort of like 'netflix'....instantly.