Have to admit this thread is pretty discouraging. For $8K I might as well get that classic 1950 Roper six-burner with double ovens/double broilers, rebuilt, reporcelainized and delivered to my door! Sigh.

mabsy: Where are you getting that they reduced the warranty on the interior to 60 days? I looked on their website and downloaded the manuals and didn't see anything of the sort.

Towards the bottom of the warranty in the use and care guide is this statement.
"Stainless steel (doors, panels, handles, product frames and interior surfaces) are covered by a limited 60-day parts and labor warranty for cosmetic defects"

Not sure what this means but the blue enamel shards are not cosmetic and they are not stainless.

That must just be a generic statement that applies to other products which might have a stainless interior.

This is disappointing to read. I purchased a dual fuel, it's connected, but I have not used the oven yet since I don't have a hood installed so unable to prep the oven. I did wipe the oven interior with just water and noticed the water bucket had a blue chip. I looked in the oven to see if I noticed any blue missing but didn't see anything. Maybe I need to pull out a flashlight?

I'm now wondering if I should contact them now to come out and take a look. Wolf has already contacted me for the initial customer satisfaction survey, but since no oven use yet, they will be re-contacting me to complete survey. I wasn't very impressed with the dealer I bought the stove from, so I don't want to get stuck going thru them. Silly me, to expect higher than basic minimum service from a wolf dealer. Guess no trickle down effect here.

Do the wolf distributors get involved? I only went with wolf stove since it appeared at the time, wolf provided the best customer service over the other pro-style makers.

WWYD at this stage?

Mags--how long until your hood is functional? If not long, I think I'd wait to see what happens after you run the initial oven burn-in. Regardless, the house will stink when you do it. My ovens are wall ovens so obviously not under the range hood. I turned my hood on full blast and left the house with the windows open when I ran the burn-in on my 2nd oven set. It still smelled when I got home. IIWY, I'd just run it and move on to using the oven.

For the porcelain failure, a flashlight helps significantly. I don't think I'd assume that it's failed already even with the chard you found. By the way, do NOT run your hand on the oven floor when you look for chips/crazing. It is very tempting to do, but you may end up with a chard in your finger as I did if the porcelain is indeed flaking. Fortunately, I didn't bleed very much.

The failure in my first set of ovens looked like someone had intentionally taken a screwdriver and gouged the bottom of the oven at the corners. Very strange. This damage so far in these ovens (I haven't examined closely in a couple of months) looks more like crazing with small flakes missing. I probably wouldn't notice if I didn't know for what I was looking. I do think that many people don't see the porcelain failure because they don't know how to look for it.

I don't have much appliance buying experience so when my first ovens needed to be replaced, I just called Wolf directly. I didn't think to get the appliance dealer involved. Wolf gave me the names of a couple of semi-local authorized service providers as my city doesn't have one of its own. The service provider came to look at it and documented their findings. The next day I received a call from Wolf telling me that my ovens would be replaced and that the regional distributor would contact me as soon as they had an exact replacement. It didn't take long to hear from the distributor and have the replacement scheduled for install. Customer service was great all the way along the chain. I wasn't happy about having to replace the ovens, but it was well handled.

Very stressed after an exhaustive few months researching I thought I'd settled on a Wolf seemed to me everyone else had big issues but now I'm not so sure to jump in . I have a house with a big open kitchen (former restaurant/bank foreclosure) that lends itself to space ... Please help what would you guys advise? I cook ALOT and I can with a pressure canner now just not so sure which brand will be the best fit I found a wolf on eBay 48" grill& griddle everything I want or I have a good price on an all gas 36" (black interior)from my local dealer both will work just not sure which way to go my husband says this is my big item I need to get what I want because it's money well spent I just don't want buyers remorse in a year or two
I could really use the input

Kala, so glad they're getting you a third, and letting you wait for the M. It'll be interesting to see what the price will be, and exactly when they finally come out!

Breezy, with all 3 of my Wolf ovens, I only had to provide pics by email. No tech visit. I found it nice they trusted me. I found it not nice they tried to say 1) no one else had these repeated problems, 2) the ovens weren't made for the use, although not inappropriate, I gave them, and 3) that this problem is "just cosmetic." I got a bloody finger, too, from a difficult to remove, crumbling glass shard. And who wants to pay top dollar for an oven that looks like heck inside in a matter of months, and is harder to clean, even if there weren't glass flakes to gouge our fingers and possibly blow into our food?

I agree, hvtech42... Why not put the replaceable bottom in ALL their ovens to avoid this problem?!

I wish I had answers for those of you looking. It does seem like we end up choosing from appliances that all have problems of one sort or another. Elux ovens had electronic issues in 2009, addressed them, and did something better for 2010, and I haven't read complaints about them since. I read about new models for Miele today, so they might have promise and I don't hear of porcelain problems with them, either. What's the word on BlueStar these days?

@breezygirl, I'm expecting to get hood installed by end of August, so it's not too long a wait. I have a small, enclosed kitchen with white cabs, so I've been a bit leery to prep oven without a functioning hood. I still have plywood for some windows so right now only one functioning window; not much in exhaust options right now.

I did pull out the flashlight to see if I could see any chipping since we found a stray shard, but didn't notice anything.

Does anyone know how the crazing and broken shards happen/begin?

tallulah201: You're considering an all gas? That's fine! It doesn't have the blue porcelain. The ones you need to stay away from are the dual fuel and the wall ovens.

rhome410: I think the word on Bluestar is good but their new range has an interesting feature in the oven they're still trying to work the bugs out of. It is a circular gas burner around the convection fan that is supposed to give you true European convection without needing dual fuel. They have a new electric french door oven coming out that looks interesting.

rhome410 - Good to hear from you. I will let you know when the M is available and installed.
tallulah - The all gas doesn't have the porcelain issues as the dual fuel does. The ovens are designed differently. I have a couple of friends with all gas and they love them.

Mags, my theory is, since the problem usually begins at the front corners, where the shape of the oven curves in 2 directions, that the expansion and contraction of the metal there is too much for the inflexible porcelain coating. I've long thought that a seam and/or maybe a different shape might give some relief, so I hope the separate bottom does that, in addition to being easily replaceable. Dacor ovens have a replaceable glass bottom, which also allows access to the hidden element, if needed. That always seemed a smart idea to me.

All that said, my first Wolf had splotches of missing porcelain all across the bottom of each oven cavity. The hidden element is such a nice feature, but seems to create challenges for the porcelain.

All my own theories, since "there is no widespread problem." :-)

'Posted by hvtech42
That must just be a generic statement that applies to other products which might have a stainless interior."

This was posted earlier when someone talked to Wolf. I know they do try to convince you first it is normal and when that doesn't work they try to say it is cosmetic.
Posted by gardeningnovice Fri, Mar 28, 14 at 16:28
" I just called Wolf to talk to them about the details of the warranty as it relates to the porcelain chipping. I could tell my question really stressed her out (even though I was not being particularly aggressive). She told me that the chipping is cosmetic unless you can show it was linked to another defect. As such it is only covered in within the first 60 days. This doesn't seem as it would help with a problem that typically show up later."

I think the word on Bluestar is good but their new range has an interesting feature in the oven they're still trying to work the bugs out of. It is a circular gas burner around the convection fan that is supposed to give you true European convection without needing dual fuel.

By definition it is a third element, but nothing functionally like the electric versions that use computers to rotate the direction of heat, timing of the elements and speed of the fans. They seem to avoid any wording like "true" or "European" convection, at least that I have seen. They claim it decreases the preheat time and makes the oven more efficient.

60 days?!!!! This is outrageous. And a reason I, as a potential buyer/owner, wouldn't give them a chance at all. I have to wonder if this is a company-wide stance that they'll now refuse to stand behind the problem? Or was it that phone person...the first line of defense...and they'll use it if it works, but then follow through if pushed. Even if it's cosmetic, why should we spend for top appliances that get big bare spots in them within a year from a company who thinks it's acceptable? We don't have plans to sell, and I don't choose appliances based on resale value, but really, having Wolf appliances in a house should say something and be worth something. Until someone looks inside? Then NOT. (The metal is not at all attractive or nice to deal with when exposed by this problem..dark and rough.) I was totally shocked when Wolf bailed on me, after providing such good service previously. This is a big step in the wrong direction, and shocks me even more.

They cannot refuse to go by what their manual says, which is that "Stainless steel (doors, panels, handles, product frames and interior surfaces) are covered by a limited 60-day parts and labor warranty for cosmetic defects"

The oven interiors are not stainless steel!

Sounds like the phone rep was just confused.

*Stainless steel (doors, panels, handles, product frames and interior surfaces) are covered by a limited
60-day parts and labor warranty for cosmetic defects.

Reading this, It is not "absolutely clear" that when they mention "Interior Surfaces", that they are not including the porcelain interior, I mean , after all, How many regular ovens, (Not speed ovens or microwaves), have a stainless steel interior.

Anyway, regardless of the warranty, Myself, I would wait to see how the interior of their new M series ovens holds up.
Do you have any idea of how hard it is to switch out double ovens~~~~~not my idea of fun!!!!!

Gary

It is a generic warranty statement that applies to other products too. For example, the combi steam oven, or their dishwashers when they go into production. They are just covering all bases.

Thankfully, if they need switching, the warranty pays for the manpower to make the oven switch. I have to say, though, that Fisher & Paykel bailed out on me, because they had trouble getting service people in my area to take on double-oven wrestling. A reason, perhaps, to make sure you have ample service in your area before buying. With Wolf, the distributor sent people from their warehouse.

But if you have to take a refund and get another brand, it could mean hundreds of dollars in cabinet alterations. Pretty much every 30" range fits in a 30" spot, a dishwasher fits in 24", a 36" fridge fits in a 36" spot... A 30" oven may or may not fit in a 30" cabinet, and the varying brands vary in heights! I am fortunate that my cabinet maker lives here and was willing to make the changes I needed...but why I still have a drawer under the oven without a front or handle. Haha

Hi, Gary!

Hiya Rhome410, good to hear from you too, ~~~although I really miss your
"Creative Baking", that you were able to do on the GE!

I haven't seen a "Psycodellic Pizza", like that, since you "Dumped the GE"!!!!

Well, speaking of Women, (or were we)~~~~~anyway,
today is my Wife's "Last Days in the 60's (She will be 70 tomorrow)~~~~but~~~~
~~ Don't tell Her, "I told You"!!!!!

Gary

Rhome you are right on target with hidden bake elements-it was tried in the '40's or 1950's by several range makers with same result-porcelain chipping and metal corrosion to the point of burn through in some cases-every maker should switch to a replaceable bottom liner.
Gary, remember the '60's were followed by the Fab 1970's, maybe a good theme for your wife's Birthday???

Quote from my 1980's GE self-clean wall oven guide re self-clean "HAIR-LIKE LINES may be noticed on the gray enameled surfaces of the self-cleaning oven. This is a common condition, resulting from heating and cooling during cleaning. These lines do not affect oven performance." This oven has been self-cleaned many, MANY times, if you look on angle with light shining just so you can see these fine lines in a couple areas on the top oven liner-ultra fine lines 1/16inch apart,you cannot feel them with a finger, and do not see them anywhere else. There is NO FLAKING, CHIPPING, or MISSING enamel. This oven is 30+ years old, WOLF and Other Makers: the Financial Crisis was 6 years ago, reengineer your oven liners and porcelain and let's move on, while GE may have used Ceramic Insulation from the Space Program the rest of this is not Rocket Science.

We just bought a new house and I was very excited to see this beautiful Wolf Oven. (I think it was purchased by the (deceased) previous owner in 2007)When we finally got into the house I opened the oven door and the bottom of the oven was disgustingly dirty! So I tried to clean the oven as described in the Wolf Cleaning Reference Guide with no luck. So I finally decided to use the self cleaning option. I was so happy to see that it cleaned the majority of the grease and grime. I did however noticed a few deep scratches. I didn't think too much of it, then the next day I cooked in the oven. After removing our dinner I noticed significant scratches and spots where the paint was completely off. I even touched a half dollar sized silver spot and got a glass shard in my finger. Reading the above posts make me very nervous! My questions are:
1. When I call Wolf how will I be treated since I was not the original purchaser?
2. Can you cook in the oven with this problem?
3. How do they repair it?
4. I do have a home warranty, is it better to go through the Home Warranty?

Thanks for your help. I am beside myself about this...

>1. When I call Wolf how will I be treated since I was not the original purchaser?

I'm sure you'll be treated the same as the original buyer would be, but with the oven being 7 years old they probably wouldn't do much for either you or the original buyer.

>2. Can you cook in the oven with this problem?

Yes, but you should use traditional bake only, you do not want the convection fan blowing shards around. In addition, the food should be completely covered so nothing gets into it.

>3. How do they repair it?

They will probably either offer you a new oven at a discounted price, or offer to replace the liner. Both are very expensive, the latter is very labor intensive.

>4. I do have a home warranty, is it better to go through the Home Warranty?

I am not a fan of home warranties at all, but if you already have one it can't hurt to see what they will do. But this will probably be very expensive, home warranty or not.

I hate to say this, but rather than paying big bucks just to have an oven that may fail again, it's probably wisest to cut your losses and buy a different one that is not prone to this problem. Unless Wolf decides to give you a new one for free or very cheap.

Is this a range or a wall oven? If it's a wall oven, I'd wait until the M series comes out and see if they'll help you out with getting one as a replacement.

hvtech42 is "Right On" with his advice!

Some of these wolf ovens have been replaced twice for the chipping problem, and in some cases even the 3rd set of ovens have had the chipping problem.

Wolf does not seem to be into replacing the liners as they have replaced the ovens, (when they were under warranty) or maybe just a couple years old.

If you wish to stick with Wolf ovens, the best thing is to get the new "M Series".
They are supposed to have a removable bottom, which could be replaced should chipping occur, but the removable bottom probably won't have that same curved area, that the current ones have, and some folks think that this curved area is what gets stressed and causes the chipping problems.

It seems to be "Still a current problem" with both the E & L series ovens as well as their Ranges with Electric ovens, (IE All electric or Dual Fuel).

Gary

I would try to go through your home warranty first. Read it carefully so that you are aware of what it covers. I have had different kinds of insurance tell me something wasn't covered until I read them portions of the policy that said it was. If you have to pay a deductible, check on the warranty for the replaced part. Wolf would only guarantee the new part for one year and they didn't say about the labor which is the most expensive part.

If you call Wolf they will be very nice and happy to set you up with their service people. I would make sure that they can change the liner in the wall oven before they come out. You are out of warranty so expect to pay through the nose. In my case they would not give an estimate just a starting point. It might be that if they are dealing with an insurance company, they will have to give a fixed estimate.
I would cut my losses and go with something else until the problem is fixed. It is cheaper to just replace just the bottom but that costs money too. My oven did not fail in the corners but maybe there is less stress with it being 36 inches wide. It failed in the middle. It took longer than the wall ovens too.

I only cook in mine without the convection and the food tightly covered. The glass shards can be tiny and the fans blowing them around is dangerous. One of the problems is that it is hard to say when the chipping starts so you have the shards flying around before you realize the oven is chipping.

Does anyone have any updates to this thread about the problems with the oven interior in the Wolf dual fuel range? Those of you who noticed problems a few years ago, has the deterioration continued? How has the company addressed these issues? I was hoping that they would redesign the dual fuel range and ovens to correct the issues, but it doesn't appear that any changes are in sight.

The short answer.

They have never done anything to fix mine. Once the glass is disintegrating, any movement of the metal by heating and cooling has the potential to grind the glass surfaces together and degrade more producing glass shards.

They have redesigned the M series wall oven to make the bottom removable so easier to fix.

There are new M ovens chipping so still seems to be issues with the enamel.

I have a service call in a couple of days for enamel failure on a 30" DFSC. I have a lot more than simple crazing so it will be interesting to see how it goes. Mine is 2.5 years old. Luckily (I hope) I have a three year factory warranty since it was installed by a Wolf certified installer.

Do Wolf all gas ranges have this problem? Considering the 48" all gas.

docsknotinn2day- Did they fix your oven? I was speaking to a salesman who said this was an old problem (he said a "decade ago") and that the newer ovens don't chip. This seems like it's not the case if you purchased your oven 2 years ago.....

Erin, if you were to read all that is written about this issue here, Wolf people say they have never heard of it or it was a small number of ranges/ovens affected a long time ago and that it was fixed a long time ago. You can look and see this year that some of the new M ovens have had the problem. I do agree that it is an old problem but still a problem. There have been quite a few posters here that have had up to 3 ovens with the problem.

They do address it on their website.

http://www.subzero-wolf.com/assistance/answers/touch-up-blue-porcelain?kmref=K76562283

There are a couple of lawsuits involving the blue enamel. It is one thing to have the problem. It is another thing to continuously sell these to people knowing this is an issue. They will keep giving you ovens as long as the warranty is in effect.

http://www.classactionsreporter.com/consumer/wolf-appliance-porcelain-oven-interior-defect-class-action

" I was speaking to a salesman who said this was an old problem (he said a "decade ago") and that the newer ovens don't chip."

I was told the same thing two years ago. I fell for it. Remember that's a Salesman telling you that. It's simply not true in my experience.

As far as my replacement goes heres a few observations. If you buy Wolf (I never would recommend) make sure you fight for the Three year factory warranty that Wolf includes if you use a factory certified installer. I had to pull teeth to get that in writing but this repair was roughly $1200 (part alone pushing $700) and this repair would never have been covered for me if I hadn't followed through as mine was 2.5 years old.

If you really must buy Wolf consider an extended warranty.

I ignored all the feedback and listened to the sales schtick. Don't make the same mistake.

Repair parts arrived and were installed in three weeks. Technician did have to debate with Wolf a bit to get authorization. It seems Wolf wants to call this a "Cosmetic" repair.

The price for an "oven Cavity" replacement is high but essentially you are getting a totally new oven. These units come with new fans, oven and broiler elements etc. They take the top off with looks like a counter mounted cook top. Then everything in the middle comes assembled in one piece. The only parts left are the door and a base with feet. I was amazed and dismayed at the same time. You have to wonder if a convection fan or broiler element dies if replacing the entire oven cavity is still the only option.

knowing what I know now I would never spend cash to replace the oven cavity. I followed the factory break in procedure and when I was done the enamel is totally discolored right where the enamel in the old unit failed. (Front oven bottom near door on Left and Right side ).

Installer suggested only using self cleaning feature once per year. I'd call that a factory defect as it clearly can not be used as advertised with out failure.

Finally please bear in mind I have a DF304 so these prices for parts and labor reflect repair of a 30" range which still requires two technicians about two hours labor plus the service call.

The problem for me is that even if I reinvested and mine is 36", they only guarantee the new part a year.

Has anyone bought the Wolf Dual Fuel range DF366 in the last year or so? Is the enamel chipping issue still coming up? I was really considering making the purchase until I read all the complaints...

This poster reports that they had a problem.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5078432/which-36-df-range-thermadore-or-monogram-wolf-is-being-returned#n=10

There are also several reports of problems with the M series oven, which was designed to alleviate the problems. Someone who had the M oven said Wolf told them that they did not change the enamel.

This has been reported by owners for 10 years. Blue enamel seems to be hard to get right as other companies have had problems too. I have not seen reports of issues with Gaggenau. :-)

Thanks wekick, that was very helpful.

Wolf wall oven bottom was chipping and grazing. I paid 600.00 toward a replacement in negotiating with them. Now, the replacement is chipping! This is not normal or cosmetic as they stated.

So sorry this is happening on such an expensive oven. No excuse at all. Even cheap ovens don’t have his problem because they don’t go for the fancy blu einterior they can’t afford to get right in the first place!

"I paid 600.00 toward a replacement in negotiating with them. Now, the replacement is chipping!"

This is is the worst. They talk you into giving them even more money for an upgrade knowing it will chip too. Unconscionable..

I would try to get my money back. Some have.

I would also be interested in the status of the class action suit. I am getting the cavity replaced on my 36” Wolf induction range. I took delivery in December 2018 and by June 2019 I had crazing and divots in the porcelain. I did use the self clean and was horrified when they told me first of all it was cosmetic and secondly you shouldn’t use the self clean if you can avoid it with degreasers etc! I had a Kitchen aid for 20 year and the porcelain was completely intact when we removed it, and I didn’t spend $10,000 on it! I told them if I wanted to clean my oven I wouldn’t have bought a self cleaning one! They are paying for the new cavity after going round and round and a supervisor. I am so worried this is just going to happen again with the new cavity and I will have no recourse.

I’m sorry to hear that. It is also sad to hear they are giving you trouble over replacing it. They used to replace the whole ovens/ranges time after time as long as you were under full warranty. If they give you a choice for a buy back I would do that. I too had many different ovens that would self clean, no problem.

Please let us know how it works out.

This is a link to some of the lawsuits.

http://www.wolfblueovenchipping.com/case-information/

I thought I was alone in this experience. I had a jenn-air downdraft for 30 years with no functional trouble whatsoever. If only they had made the downdraft cavity of stainless steel so it could have been cleaned more easily, I would have bought another one. But I had my eye on the Wolf for so long... The first oven cavity had significant crazing, and Wolf eventually replaced the cavity. Then, it happened again and they replaced the stove. That was a couple of years ago. I don’t use the oven cleaning function that often; generally it says fairly clean with a good wipe down. But a few days ago, I ran the self clean, and danged if it isn’t happening again. This time I searched and found the class action suit. It is beyond unacceptable to spend that amount of money and have this extent of structural problems.

@katileigh

Is it still under warranty?

Let us know what happens.

I will report back. Since they replaced the entire stove, I suspect the warranty will be dated from the original purchase. I will be calling them on Monday since this just happened.

Does anyone in this discussion know if there have been any new developments in the class action lawsuit? I looked at the most recent one dated 2018.

This has been a problem for over ten years. I can’t understand why Wolfe hasn’t completely re-engineered their ovens to solve this problem. It is as if they just don’t care and, yet, the issue must be costing them a lot.

Wolf settled the lawsuit. I don't think it was ever actually certified as a class action, so this settlement would just be for the folks who sued.

@katileigh what was the outcome? I am having the same chipping issues and sadly my warranty expired about 6 months ago. I called customer service who said have a technician come out on your own dime and see what the options are. We will "TRY" to work with the technicians on how we can help.

I have chipping issues after using the self clean once. I have contacted WOLF and they have offered to give me the part and help me with the cost of the installation. They also offered a new range (36") at 40% off. Both are unacceptable asmy cost will be between $1000 and possibly $5000. Any Suggestions?