I'll try to get the "ball rolling". Your question is too broad to get much unless someone wants to sell you what they purchased. Both the Apple and Thinkpad are top quality, I believe, saying without ever owning an Apple and have my last Thinkpad experience back in IBM days. I'd consult PC Mag or similar, may be something on the web about quality of tech support, I recall seeing it in the last few months in PC World.

That said, and given I've never met an Apple owner who didn't love it over the PC world, the Mac may be your best choice if you're ready to make the change, Vista would be a change anyway, given you're now an XP or earlier user. I'd still try to avoid Vista. I think you can still purchase a new computer with XP, and I believe XP SP3 is about to be released, so XP is still an up-to-date OS with a lot of fixes under its "belt". Price may also be a factor, and I assume Thinkpad will cost less. On processor get something modern, but not the most recent, is my recommendation, one of the "dual core" would be my target. There are a lot of factors, most of which will make little difference unless you're pushing the "envelop" on gaming, or graphics, or some other resource hog application.

I'd buy the ThinkPad.
I havent had an apple since before they called themselfs something else and dont think I'd be happy without a few windows programs I need that apple just can't do.

Specs required depend on what you plan on using it for now and in the foreseeable future.
"You dont want to buy a volkswagen if you want to go racing"

So, more specifics needed... Yesterday, I worked on making some decisions with what I understand to this point. Lenovo was having a sale that ended yesterday, so I wanted to get a quote in before that. I have a few more days to decide if I want the machine. Here are the basic specs of the quote of $1770 with tax and free shipping...

SBB INTEL CORE2DUO PROC.T8300
SBB 15.4 WXGA TFT
SBB NVIDIA QUA. NVS 140M-128MB
VBB 2GB PC2-5300 667MHZ 2DIMM
TOUCHPAD FINGERPRINT READER
SBB 160GB HDD,7200RPM
SBB DVD REC.8XMAXDUAL LAY UB-S
VBB PC CARDSLOT EX CARDSLOT
SBB INT.WIRE.WIFI/LINK
VBB INTEGR.BLUETOOTH PAN
SBB 6 CELL LI-ION BATTERY

I also put a 3yr breakage and tech support coverage on site.
I know this is significantly more expensive than lower end machines, but the Apple MacBook Pro middle of their line, was $1,000. more for a fairly comparable machine, that had less hard drive and I don't think their graphics card is as good.

What will I be doing with the machine.
It is a home computer. My husband has to connect to his office from home on a regular basis. This is a problem with the Apple, that I won't bore you with the details of, but if I choose an Apple, it will only be if I can get one of our old Win pcs to work so he can use that to get onto his office server. I am not going to add windows to the Apple. So, the Apple machine is a very expensive proposition, not only for the initial cost, but for having to have a second machine too. We have taken an old laptop to a repair shop to determine if it is worth repairing.

The other uses...
we use a lot of spreadhsheets
collect a lot of mp3 files
upload, organize and edit digital photos
do the usual amount of research online and visit forums.
My last computer was a Dell Inspiron 8200 with a 40GB Hard Drive that I took 5 years to fill 2/3. But I was only collecting music and photos for a year and a half of that time.

Everything I have read so far has directed me toward Apple and IBM, but I am not locked into those two if someone has more information about another company I could investigate. I avoided Dell and Gateway because of reports and reviews even though I've had both and although aggravating at times tech support, always got my problems fixed and never spent a dime out of pocket.

I do hope to.....
keep this computer for at least the next five years
have enough power not to have freezes or a slowing down of the system
have enough hard drive space not to have to upgrade
View my photos as crisply and clearly as possible
have the most trouble free computer experience

Thanks very much...
pm2

PM take a look at the thread linked below, it deals entirely with Lenovo who bought IBM. May not be your model discussed but the read may prove worthwhile.

Your $1770 does not seem to include an operating system?

Here is a link that might be useful: Lenovo (IBM) 20%off

owbist...sorry, yes I put XP Professional on it. Thanks, I will look over that link. :-)

I would consider putting another 1G of memory in your laptop in the future as Vista is a real memory hog

Think 3g might be a tad slower for light duty as the ram then isnt a matched pair and becomes single channel rather than DDR2 spec dual channel.

I'd add in wireless N if it doesnt come standard and doesnt cost an arm and leg. N wifi standards arent finalized yet - but would work inhome forever with matching brand router/ap. (faster)

owbist, thanks...I did look over that site. I see there is something else I do that I should take into consideration. I multi task a LOT. I always have everything going at once. A question I had, was I see some people suggesting that they were going to buy the machine with the standard hard drive, buy a less expensive, but larger hard drive, install that and then sell the one that was in the original machine. Wouldn't that void their warranty?

genes, I had attempted to get the extra GB of Ram, but the salesperson advised me not to get 3GB, I guess for the reason mikie points out. I didn't want to spend the money to go up to the RAM, so I spent it on the larger faster hard drive, because the salesperson said I couldn't upgrade the hard drive later, I would be stuck with it. Which doesn't sound right, come to think of it. He said I could add more RAM later. So that was why I did that.

mikie..that configuration does come with the wireless n, that was added in for $30.

adam

BTW, owbist, this fatwallet.com site is pretty neat. thanks...

I just bought some 200 pin laptop ddr2-667 ram.. 4gb(2x 2gb) $90 delivered. Pretty cheap usually to do yourself compaired to buying it preInstalled.

I suggested the 1 more Gig of memory before you mentioned you had XP on it. I had thought since it was a new laptop it probably had Vista on it. Disregard my post then, 2 G's is plenty for any XP configuration

I've been looking for an XP laptop also and will probably go with Dell Vostro. A business machine which seems to have good reviews from users. I'm looking at the 15inch with 2 gigs and 160 harddrive. It comes with a dedicated video card. I think I configured it at about $1,200 with a year warranty. I've had Dells for about 10 yrs and haven't had any problems with them. Their service has improved and I find them no-fuss machines.

The business machine come without any junk at all. I bought this one last June and have been happy. Now we need a laptop for the same reason as you.

My research has led me to the opinion that Lenovo's have problems and are not reliable machines. I don't know if that is true, but have spent the last few months reading everything I can find on various laptops. My choice would be either Dell or Toshiba.

Jane

HI Jane,

My last purchase was a Dell Inspiron 8200. Our 4yr onsite warranty ran out about a year ago. While it was under warranty, they had to replace many parts on it. The motherboard, the monitor, the graphics card. Really, aside from the keyboard, everything in it was almost new. We had the extended onsite warranty which mostly worked out fine. Our biggest objection with Dell is the fact that their tech support is in India and getting help was always very frustrating due to the language issues. Yes, they speak English, but sorry I just can't understand their accent most of the time.

Lenovo so far, I have talked to people in Canada. The other reason I started leaning toward the Lenovo was I was looking at a three way comparison between a Dell/Lenovo/Apple on PC World, and I noticed that Dell in too many instances was using an older or less desirable part in comparison to the other two. That and the fact that the Lenovo case is just about indestructible while my Dell has had problems with the case, are the reasons I am leaning that way. Lenovo also doesn't come with trial software.

Here is a link to the comparison I am referring to...

Here is a link that might be useful: Lenovo/Dell/Apple comparison

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. I really didn't consider Lenovo because of negative comments regarding reliability so I stayed away from them. I won't even go into the information I was given because I have had a totally different experience with Dell. I have three machines, one is almost 7 yrs old. All are desktops and I have never had a part fail.

Quick story - Our son was in the Navy and we ordered a computer and had it sent to him in Pensacola, Fla. It was a Dell with Win 95 (I think). That was probably 10 yrs ago. That computer traveled with him all over the world. After discharge, he mailed it home and it was very damaged. It was still under warranty. Everything was broken but I took a chance and called Dell. They sent him a new computer minus operating system. Long and short of it, they sent someone to the house who installed everything. It was Win 98. I was amazed! When XP came out it needed more memory to operate it. I gave it away to a elderly friend who used it until last year.

I know that wouldn't happen now, but I lean heavily toward this company because I haven't had the problems you did. Although, I like Toshiba I have heard their support is not good. I need good support With my last machine, I purchased their Gold support which gives me a No. American tech. I would probably do the same with this one.

Its such a difficult decision because I want a machine to last at least 5 years and to be dependable. This new laptop would be used by my husband who is really bad with computers. I will probably take accident protection too!

BTW, that Navy machine is long gone replaced with the 6 yr old machine which is still running well. Only 512 Ram, XP2 and very abused by my husband and son. It is filled with photos, which he never organizes or deletes.He has at least 5 photo programs installed and never figured out how to use any of them. The OS has never been reinstalled. That's a credit to Windows XP and to that computer.

Good luck,
Jane

I commiserate with you Jane. :-) I would also like something to work out for as long as possible. I wish there were a clear decision to make. Six in one and half a dozen in the other. I forgot they offer the gold support. I will have to check out their website and at least configure and compare. I am narrowing it down at least!

:-)
pm2

FWIW...unless you're bound to Windows for some reason, I'll bet you'll find that Apple's OS will change your life. I sure did. 21 months now (after decades with PC's) with zero problems or down-time. Machine works; OS works; support is knowledgeable and easy to get to. If you have an Apple Store anywhere close to you, strongly suggest making the trip. Everything they offer is there and up and running all the time. You can form your own opinion. (And, no, I have no association other than as retail customer.)

Asolo, both PM2 and I need these machines for work. Mine needs to share software easily without major headaches. That is my reason for staying with XP instead of buying a new machine with Vista. There is no time to fool around with getting all 3 machines (two XP machines) to 'play well' with Vista or Apple.

I would love an Apple to use for photos and fun things. It won't work for our business. Even if the Mac had both OS on them, what would be the point? The laptop would be used for work.

I'm getting a migraine trying to decide on this laptop. Now I hear there's something new in the works. Something about a new chip and I should wait till Spring.

Good luck, PM2
Let us know what you decide..
Jane

Hi asolo and jane....

Yes, asolo, I agree with you, many many happy Apple users out there. I spent a week looking into Apples and was very close to purchasing one. My husband has to be able to connect to his office. We spoke with his computer tech department a number of times. They don't support Apple, period. One of our kids has an apple MacBook and we tried getting on from that and couldn't. We took her MacBook into the Apple Genius Bar and they couldn't connect either. They suggested we ask his work, if we could use a Cirux server to connect, we asked, they said they used to 5yrs ago, but not any more. The Apple genius told us that we could install windows on the machine to do it. So I asked around and got contradictory accounts of good/bad experiences doing that. It would also require that we actually buy a retail copy of MS XP or Vista plus another program, plus virus software again. Which would have cost us a significant amount of money in addition. Then I would be defeating the whole purpose of going to the mac For me, because then it would be potential headaches with the windows on the machine as confirmed by quite a few posts I found from people trying to fix problems they were haivng with it. My biggest reason for going is the improved security and not having to use virus software and spyware scanning software.

The kicker for us though, was that the Apple genius told us very pointedly, that they would not support the windows programs on the Apple. So, his office wouldn't support the Mac and Apple wouldn't support the windows, so if we had a problem we would be on our own. Spending time in forums trying to get help to fix problems. I wouldn't put myself in that position.

Cost was another big factor. A middle of the line MacBook Pro laptop would cost $2800. about..plus tax. of another $130. Plus another $3-400 for the extra software. About $3300. The next highest priced machine has worked out to be the Lenovo ThinkPads, which for a comparable machine would be about $1800. That is a full $1400 more for the Apple with the windows headaches.

For awhile we thought we could rehab an old machine and use that to connect to work but taking it to a repair shop cost us $50. for them to tell us it was not repairable. Anyway, I don't like the troubleshooting and time spent on one machine keeping it running right, why have two to take care of?

So Apple is off my list unfortunately. I would have liked to give them a try.

Jane, I have tried to be objective about Vista. Went into the stores to look at the software interface. Read lots of posts on people's experiences with it. Not only were there more posts about not liking Vista, but lots of posts from people who had a machine shipped with it who were trying to get it off their machine and put XP back on. I was asking about making that choice on a forum yesterday and someone who repairs computers for a living told me that it seems to be a lot of BSOD problems with Vista on the machine and that Lenovo especially seems to have this problem running Vista and he recommended I stick with XP.

Jane, I hear you, I am also getting headaches having to put in this amount of time on the computer doing research. Plus the list of things I should be doing instead of this is weighing on me. No other purchase gives me this much of a problem, not even a $25,000 car.

Right now, I am 'this close' to buying a Lenovo. I have one last question to flesh out about their warranty service. I think it is not easy to get that info because busy business people own them and probably not going to find too much info but I keep looking.

Thanks...and good luck to you Jane. I will keep updating until I make a decision.

pm2

Thanks PM2. Let me know what you find out about the Lenovo. I only thought you could get Vista on most machines nowadays.
I know Dell and Toshiba still have XP. My other grip is whether you can configure your own set-up. I don't want all the 'junk' on a machine I pay a lot of money for. I believe Lenovo is made in China and their support was a problem.

I'd appreciate any info you get. I wish other Lenovo users would pipe in here and give their opinions.

Jane

Lenovo retained or bought most of the IBM staff. So its probably the same old people if they havent retired on their big blue pension & payouts.

My brother is a hosptal conglomerate IT dept senior staff guy .. he's alway has a new title....
All of their 1000's of computers are HP and he carries a Lenovo laptop everywhere he goes.
I assume the IT guys there trust them to be critically reliable for emergencies otherwise they'd use something else.

Thanks, Mikie. Now the question is, do you trust your brother's judgement?

That makes me feel better -- I think,

Jane

Iam buying one as well in the next month or so. I have exclusively used Toshiba and IBM (pre Lenovo)since 1995 and really have not had a lick of trouble with either brand.
Having said that, I wanted to get the best bang for the buck and found that ACER had what I wanted for about $1200 Cdn: Comparable Toshibas and Ibms were about $1800 plus
Acer 7720-6604
17" Widescreen Notebook PC
Intel Core 2 Duo T8100 mobile processor
Windows Vista Home Premium
3GB System memory
320GB Hard Drive
8X DVD Super-Multi drive
NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT 512MB dedicated graphics
802.11a/b/g/Draft-N, gigabit Ethernet, 56k Modem
Dolby certified surround sound, 2 speakers plus subwoofer
5-in-1 Media Card Reader & integrated webcam
My sister has had an Acer laptop for 3 years or so and hasnt had any problems. Hoping I have the same results

Brother is a normal guy. He was a movie theatre usher & radio shack sales guy.... same background as all the computer wiz's ;)

Then he partnered with one of his friends to open a retail computer sales store, while still a teen.

Nobody knew what computers were let alone had computers in their homes back then, so they went broke and had to get real jobs.

Hello again...

Well, I am back to say that at this moment I am pretty discouraged from buying a new computer. I decided there had to be something online reporting people's experiences with Lenovo ThinkPads so I googled Lenovo forum and hit the first one on the list and found quite a few threads to it. I saw a number of posts reporting problems, but this one got most of my attention. There were 105 posts to it. I link to it below.

My take on the thread is that I expect to see people with problems posting to forums and I realize there is a good portion of people out there who are happy and you never hear from, so I try to take it with a grain of salt. But, seemed to me to be too many people having trouble with the same thing. I also find it difficult to believe a basic function of the computer could be so wrong and not be caught on inspection. Then I am very disappointed that all these people with new laptops are having to resort to asking about the problem on forums. They have warranty and tech support which has evidently not straightened out the problem. If you read the whole thread, you can pick up various comments that suggest this is typical of this company's support. There were also a number of other complaint threads here that were very disappointing.

I am stuck at the moment and not sure what to do.

Sorry for the bad news...
pm2

Here is a link that might be useful: Lenovo Wireless Woes.

fwiw
I had the exact same wireless problem those posts talk of with my new toshiba.

Anything not working near perfect is always a worry but I was always able to work it out by rolling back the driver - not allowing windows to manage the power management on the wifi card helps but wasnt a full fix.

Microsoft sent about three driver auto-updates in two or so months for me, so I imagine its a problem most everywhere. Last driver update works here no matter how configured.

Oh, PM2 I hear your frustration. Maybe what Mikie said is true, although my daughter has a new Toshiba laptop which has no power problems, but has tons of problems with Vista.

I just spent an hour on the phone with Dell sales. I configured a few machines on line and called regarding the differences in processors. Dell Business seems to have better prices than their regular machines. I configured Vostro 1500,Intel Core 2Duo T7500, XP Pro, 2 gigs (thanks Mikie)with a dedicated card 128MB, 15.4 in Wide Screen XGA+LCD Display w/TrueLife, Office Basic, 9 cell battery, 8X DVD drive, 2yr Pro Support (N. America, 2 min. call time), 2 yr accidental damage.

$1,569.00 (before tax)
$1,684.72 (with NYS tax)

It came with a 1 yr warranty, but I tacked on the two year Pro support and accidental damage which added two hundred +.
I could get it without all the warranties for around $1,400.00.

Still shopping,
Jane

PM2, I don't know if you checked this site.

Here is a link that might be useful: Notebook reviews

Hi Jane...

Thanks for sharing your config and quote with Dell. Yes, that Notebook Reviews site is where I linked the Lenovo thread from. I was just starting to look the whole site over. I notice how many posts are under each manufacturer and you can see how many people must own each one. Interesting. I was just going to go through the Dell posts to see if I can find out what new owners have to say.

I'll be back later...

Thanks
pm2

Thought I would come back and update. Well, in the end, I decided to go with the Apple. :-) There were so many reasons I wanted to get one and quite a few reasons I didn't want to get another windows machine. Two of the issues that were keeping me from getting the Apple resolved at the last minute and I was very happy to see no obstacles to getting it.

I have had a MacBookPro for two weeks now and loving it! Almost have everything moved over from the old computer and Monday got the new printer installed and connected. Tech support has been great as expected. There have been some issues with changing over from the windows system to the Mac. I was using MS Works on the old Dell and converting those to iWorks was not straightforward although in the end most of that is done. Going from MS Office is easier. Changing over from Windows Media Player to iTunes...if you are importing your music to WMPlayer in the wma format, well, come to find out it is a proprietary format to Windows and it is not easy to switch over to mp3 that will allow the iTunes to play it. I had to convert 800 songs to mp3 before moving it to the Apple which was not so great. Time consuming. Had to download four programs on Tuesday and only one of them actually made the conversion. Plus converting the files does lower the quality some. So, I am planning on getting as much off of CDs to replace them as I can, but they are fine for the time being. Just for your information, you can set your WindowsMediaPlayer to import into it in the mp3 format and that will make your life so much easier if/when you want to move them or use another player.

Photos were a breeze to move and using iPhoto is just a treat! Such an improvement over my previous photo software for organizing photos. I have never used Photoshop software, so maybe that is as good at organizing as the iPhoto? I do plan on trying photoshop at some point.

So that's my story. :-) Jane, I hope you have made the change over to whatever you liked the most and have a new machine that you are happy with.

:-)