Wow! I'm shocked. I'll be interested in reading the replies but I thought everyone (practically) was pleased with their Toto's. Maybe he doesn't like them because there's no call backs for repairs (LOL) I had a plumber here that didn't like the one piece because it was harder on HIM to repair a one piece. Too bad. I bought the UltraMax (but it's not installed yet).
Monica

based on what I read in this forum and other places, had a toto carlyle installed, it is a huge difference from the Kohlers that we had previously. It was highly recommended by our plumber as well and we are very pleased.

We've just had 3 toto's installed and we love them.

The only complaint I've heard from anyone about them is that they don't rinse the bowl in the same way the others do. I think this is a purely psychological problem. You don't see a huge rush of water, but somehow it seems to get rid of everything even better.

We got 2 promenades (which do actually give that big rush of water, but don't have the Gmax flush system) and one carollton that does have the Gmax. We are incredibly happy with all 3.

My office specified toto toilets for the office of the president of a local university and he now wants all of the toilets on campus replaced with toto.

My inlaws were told the same thing by their plumber (although he recommended a kohler toilet, not an AS toilet). They went with it and miss their old toilet (they replaced the old ca 1969 water hog).

My parent's plumber only has Toto toilets installed in his house. We've had three put in our house that we're renovating and LOVE them. You might invest in the G-MAX flush versus gravity for more flushing power.

I have 4 Ultramaxes and am very pleased with them. They stay much cleaner than my old Kohlers with no effort on our part.

We have eight toilets in the house; most are Totos and those are the ones we like best. The Kohler name was recommended to us, but we have found that they are not as good.

I wonder if the plumber doesn't make a larger profit margin if you purchase the AS over Toto brand? Usually that's why they recommend one brand over another, maybe his wholesaler doesn't have the Toto line. We were just looking at fixtures this past week and at one place the salesman did recommend the Cadet 3 from AS. At Kohler is was the Cimmaron. Didn't find anyone who sold Toto, wish I did. Sure seems everyone with a Toto on GW just loves them.

Thanks for all the input. I'm still not sure what to think. This plumber is independent and has no financial stake in the toilet we pick, so I doubt that this was a factor. He was recommended by a friend, but is also the top recommendation of the dealer where we were planning to buy the Toto. He even expressed surprise that the dealer seemed to be "pushing" Toto and he wasn't sure why.

My DH thought that the guy just likes American products better and distrusts imports. He really went on and on about how American Standard is "tried and true." He also emphasized several times that the two-piece toilets are much better than one-piece for flushing and that even if we stick with Toto, he recommended that we get a two-piece.

This is a small powder room off of our laundry room. It does not need to be particularly fancy, and is probably the most heavily used toilet in the house. I honestly wouldn't mind saving money and getting an AS, but I want a really good toilet that flushes well, is easy to clean, ideally saves on water, and lasts.

We are seeing another plumber on Monday. I guess we'll see what he says.

The guy sounds like a bit of a Luddite to me. He's probably been installing American Standard since he started in the business forty years ago. He doesn't like change, he's used to working on them, so he can't see any reason to switch to something newer -- especially a foreign brand.

Go with Toto. You won't have any regrets. And go with the one piece models. I have them in both of my houses, I had them in my last house, and I've been replacing older toilets in my rental properties with them as I've updated. They are absolutely trouble-free.

I have a Toto one-piece Ultramax, which I think is great. The only thing I didn't like was the price, but you know, you get what you pay for, and the Ultramax in the end was worth the money. Also, some plumbers don't like one-piece toilets cause they are slightly more tricky to install than a two-piece (not a really big deal, but just slightly more tricky), and they weigh a ton. Obviously, two piece toilets would be lighter to haul up stairs and put into place since they're in two pieces.

My Ultramax was installed by a guy from my neighborhood kitchen/bath shop where I bought it. When the store delivered the toilet, the two deliverymen hauled it up my 2 flights, and you could tell it was heavy. The guy who installed it from the store had done many many Toto one-piece installations, so it was a cinch for him. But I remember him remarking that one-pieces have to be tightened "just so". Perhaps that plus the weight might be what is making your plumber hesitate.

You could also post on the Gardenweb's Plumbing Forum.

I had one plumber dissing Totos and it turned out that he was simply totally unfamiliar with them, and so like many people was tearing it down out of ignorance and perhaps even a little fear. He had been installing the same old American Standards, Cranes, and Mansfields for umpty-ump years so he pushed those because they're what he was familiar with. He thought it was insane to spend $400 on a toilet no matter how great looking it was; I think he would have plotzed if I had presented him with something really obscure for this area like a Caroma or a Duravit. I brought in another plumber who was familiar with Totos although my Vespin was the first Unifit he had installed - he thought that was ultracool.

No insult intended to Bill, Mongo, Lazypup, or other construction professionals here, but I think a LOT of people in the building trades like to sit tight in their little comfort zones, never venturing out to new products, methods, and technologies. I can't tell you how many times I heard "but we've always done it this way" from various tradespeople. I think people are particularly stubborn about this here in the northern half of New England, and if the technology in question comes from Europe, fuhgedaboudit! "Furriners" can't do anything as well as what their great-granddads did, as far as a lot of these tradespeople are concerned. Heck, they're still using copper or lead shower pans here - I had a small war with my GC about the Kerdi system, he didn't believe this flimsy little orange fabric-y stuff could keep water where it belonged! I don't think he even read the documentation I gave him. "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up!"

Oh, and back to the OP: if you do follow this plumber's recommendation to use American Standard, you don't want the plain Cadet toilet, you want the Cadet 3 model. The plain Cadet blows. The Cadet 3 is pushed as being much cheaper than the Toto Drake (Toto's basic "toilety-looking toilet" and their second cheapest model after the Carusoe), but if you shop around for the Drake there isn't much price difference at all.

Have you read the info. on Terry Love's site? He's the god of plumbing.

http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm

The one pieces are heavier; maybe unfamiliar to your plumber. They're also easier to clean. We're putting Toto one pieces in all our new house's baths. The Soiree style because a skirt covers the trapway on the outside--again, MUCH easier to clean.

I'm into easy, reliable, money-saving in the long run for me. Not making the plumber happy. For plumbers it's gonna take 2 guys to lug in a one-piece. They're gonna charge you for bringing along an extra guy; a big expense for them.

Eight years ago we replaced our toilets with 3 Totos and haven't had a problem. So little water, such a great flush!

Unless your plumber is a wimp....a one-piece Toto can be handled by one person. Naturally, it's easier with two people, especially if stairs are involved, but I've swapped out the old toilets in a number of my rental properties for Toto single-piece models -- and usually do it by myself. I'm not in any danger of being mistaken for Joe Atlas, either.

We put all Toto Carlyles in our new house 5 years ago. The plumber refused to believe that the hole had to be farther from the wall than "regular" toilets and ended up a believer when he went to install them. He was ticked. He was also ticked because I ordered them online instead of from his supply house. He groused and groused. Of course he wouldn't "guarantee" them.

Our builder wasn't convinced that they were worth the price. Since he's our SIL, he's here often . . . and now recommends them to his clients. He also uses the same online source I did.

Long story short: We've never plunged in 5 years. We've had not one problem. Love 'em!

We're moving to another state next spring, just breaking ground in a week or so. We'll use Toto again. Great product!

American Standard Cadet 3 is a better knock-off of the Toto Drake toilet. Do a search on the forums and you'll see the Cadet 3 is a great toilet.

The Toto lines are awesome too (but more expensive than AS!).

One piece Toto's are harder to install and it might be your plumber doesn't want to take the time to learn how to install it or feels he can't charge enough for the install to make it profitable. I have a Carlyle and I'm sold on Toto, doubt if I will ever have a different brand toilet

We're replacing our 26 year old Kohler with a Toto Ultramax. It will be in the same location. Is there going to be a problem with the the position of the hole where the toilet sits? I'm asking because of the above statement...
"The plumber refused to believe that the hole had to be farther from the wall than "regular" toilets.."

Monica

All 3 of my Totos were replacements for the original Eljer toilets installed in 1978. No problem at all positioning the Totos in place.

I replaced a "who knows how old" Mansfield (with that jet flush) with a Toto Aquia. It's been in for nearly a month, and I've had no problems. Even the Aquia specific installation problems encountered by other folks were not experienced by my contractors.

Monica, check the specs. As I remember, when I ordered the Carlyles, the woman I spoke to said, "be sure to tell your plumber . . . " and it had something to do with where the hole was located out from the wall. It may have been just the carlyle -- sorry, but it's one of the details buried under the mountain of information one gets when building a home! As soon as I passed it on, I forgot the details.I'm sure you can check with someone who offers Toto toilets and find out.

My bathroom had a standard 12" from wall drain, the Toto fit fine, the only 'issue' that I had was that my husband called the plumber before I had hung the wallpaper, I had about 3/4" between the toilet and the wall to work in . Since it's one piece you can't just remove the tank.

I think that when the toilet has a skirt, it needs a little more room from the wall.

We purchased the Toto Aquia, because we wanted the dual-flush as a water saving option. Our plumber was against this, just because he'd never gotten a Toto toilet before. We insisted, and are happy that we did.

Cheers!
Heather W

Here is a link that might be useful: Our ICF Home Construction Journal

The situation with the skirted toilets is that the water supply must be placed further away than a standard toilet; most plumbers put the toilet supply hookup between 5-6" from center, the skirted toilets' specs say they need 8" from center. Ours was not quite 7" from center and the Vespin fit OK.

The trap (what some of you are calling the "drain hole") most certainly does NOT need to be further from the wall than with a standard toilet, because we had a 10" rough-in instead of the usual 12" - that is the ONLY reason we used a Vespin instead of the Drake, because the skirted models have the Unifit option and the Vespin was the cheapest of them.

I suspect your husband is correct.
We've had two Toto's for about 3 years and they have been great.

Now the big dilemma is whether to use this plumber even if we decide to stick with the Toto. I know he installs a lot of them, so it isn't lack of familiarity with the product. That raises the question of whether he installs them incorrectly, and that is why his customers have flushing problems.

Aside from his attitude, he seems like he knows what he is doing, lives nearby and is flexible as to scheduling, and is highly recommended. This is such a small job, that we have been having trouble getting other plumbers to take the job. The guy who was supposed to come today was a no-show.

Kitchenmom - Where are you buying your Toto? The reason I am asking is that, as I mentioned in my post above, my Toto Ultramax was installed by a guy who worked in the store where I bought it. He had been working for the store for years, and installed many of these, so he had the expertise. The store added $75 or $100 (I can't remember) for the installation, which I thought was reasonable, given what a plumber would have charged to come out and do it. So if you are buying your Toto from a nearby store, can you check with them whether they offer the installation service?

akchicago - that is what is puzzling about this whole situation. The place we are probably getting the Toto doesn't do their own installation, but this plumber was their number one recommendation. They recommend him a lot and say they never have any complaints. The plumber even said that the supply place "seems to be pushing Toto" and he wasn't sure why. His prices also seemed reasonable--under $500 to remove old sink and toilet and come back after the walls and floor are redone to install the new ones. I'm really torn now.

We had a problem with the toilet in our basement not flushing. We replaced it with Toto a couple years ago and haven't had a clog since. I want to replace the rest of the toilets in our house with them, but since they work satifactory, I can't justify the cost.

Our friend had the same problem with a clogging toilet. Replaced with Toto and no problems since.

I think one issue that people buying a one piece toto should be aware of is the distance from the draint to the water valve. It needs to be further away than for a normal toilet. My plumber simply replaced the old valve with an angle valve, but he did say that if it had been any closer to the toilet he would have had to move the pipe.

Only one guy we spoke to did not recommend Toto...and he was an official Kohler distributor. ; )

Before we began our master bath remodel I had never heard of Toto either. Now I'm just thankful I know! Love my Drake and LOVE my Toto 1525 tub!

Susan ~

lynneblack, is your Toto one piece a "skirted" toilet?

Hi Monica -yes it's a Toto Carlyle, Skirted. I linked a picture of it below. Did I say I love it! I have not problems with clogs and the bowl is designed very nicely, 'stuff' doesn't seem to get stuck on it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Toto Carlyle

Lynne, That baby looks realllly easy to clean! (g) I already have my UltraMax (not installed yet) and was wondering about the trap..if it was going to need to be moved out some from the wall. Someone above suggested that it was the skirted toilets that needed the extra room. Thanks for the reply :)
Monica

I have three Toto's because the same plumber that installed our son's American Standard Cadets recommended Toto's. Our son was unable to get the Toto's in his area and was anxious to get his baths done while wife was in Europe. I am not sure I can tell a difference in theirs and ours as far as flushing, etc.

We have two Totos and a Kohler Memoirs. All work great. But if you like the plumber and are looking for a functional, fairly inexpensive toilet, the Cadet 3 has really great reviews.

Good luck!