Induction is the best way to go in my opinion. The portable induction units generally do not have the wattage (under 2000 watts typically) compared with the built-in units.

The Gaggenau (made by BSH) has over 4000 watts on one of it's burners. You can save money and get pretty much the same functions by going with Thermador or Bosch. The mirrored silver Thermador would love sweet in a stainless steel countertop, unless you're trying to break up the visual with black glass.

You may want to check the current amperage of your electric supply for the cooktop. Induction cooktops often need more amps than standard smoothtops.

I've never had an unhappy induction customer - ever.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thermador CIT365GM Mirrored Silver (Image)

Your question as to power outages is a very good one.

Obviously, being electrical, the unit won't work during a power outage. But because it is also electronic, one has to be concerned (especially given the high amperage) with how the unit manages having the power suddenly being cut off, and, more importantly, how it handles power surges (as often happens during lightening storms) and power resumptions. btw, I'm in an area prone to power outages and other than it "locking" itself--requiring holding down the unlock safety button--the unit has been unfazed during and after outages.

This MAY be one area where "better" induction units have the advantage over less expensive ones⦠or maybe not.

There are only two manufacturers of induction burners, both out of Germany. One of them is BSH (Bosch/Thermador/Gaggenau). I can't remember the other, but it's not a household name.

The Gaggenau will use the same burners as Thermador and Bosch.

As for the electrical surge issues - I don't know enough about that to help you in your decision.

The Thermador unit appears to be the same size and I would love silver. I've never seen it before and it's a beauty!

However, this is the AF and we read manuals and downloads. I quickly spotted the sensor that equalizes temperature by turning the burner power off and on automatically. Who thinks this stuff up? Thanks but no thanks. When rhome reads this I hope she's not drinking coffee at the same time as she'll have a clean up job on her hands.

Unfortunately, it also needs its own ventilation system and I already have a hood. Also, I'd lose the scooped out drawer directly below my cooktop -- one of the most-often used in the kitchen. Unclear whether anything but a heat-shield and an oven can go below it.

Looks very interesting for initial install but not for retrofitting. Fascinating that it's about the same price as the Gagg.

We have power outages, whole-house surge protector in the box plus a backup generator so we never lose all power. But the outages are not infrequent and after losing all the Viking boards when the powerline broke (but no problem with the Mieles) I'm into due diligence in this regard.

Just tried reading the Gagg user manual which appears to be written by aliens.

Sure does make the 3500 watt Max Burton single unit for under $300 look good.

Rococogurl, I have the previous model Gaggenau (actually 2/3 of it). I think the only difference is the fry control. If you want any help with the features let me know.

I LOVE the knob.

I'd think your best bet on the power would be to talk to your Gaggenau or BSH service reps first. See how they feel about your power issues. Also, get a feel for how responsive they are. We have great Gaggenau service, but in some parts of the country it's nigh on non-existent. I'm sure you must have it in your area, but they might not be as customer service oriented as ours are.

My gas and induction require the same depth. At the time I bought it, the Gaggenau and Miele induction required the least depth of all. You do need some air space behind the drawers, however, and if you run at high power for long enough to heat all the available air in the space, you can warm the counter (warm, not heat, just from the trapped warm air. Opening the drawer a bit helps cool it down). I've only done that with the 6 hour stock boiling. I have a vestigial drawer, which is very useful. It holds wooden spoons, silicone stirers, grill pans, splatter screens, meat forks, a ball whisk, etc. It's very shallow, but very useful. The drawer is in the position of a 4" depth/6" face (full overlay) drawer. As is, it's about 1 3/8", probably almost 1.5" without the cork liner.

plllog, thanks for posting. I have a very similar drawer so it's to see yours below the gagg. Any chance you have a photo of the cooktop from above?

The closest Gagg dealer is over an hour away. I need to call. Do you find any interference with TV or electronics from the magnet in the knob? That was mentioned in the manual.

With stainless counters I read I'm unable to use a separate Max Burton unit. No sense carrying a pot of boiling water across the room. So much for that.

A good dealer that will service our area sells Bosch (and 20 other brands, just not Gaggeanu). Thanks to Appliance Sales Vet's info, that one might also be a fit/possibility though I feel less comfortable with that replacement. My question is: what makes the Bosch $2k and the Gagg close to $4k if they begin as the same unit, manufacturer etc -- or are they not so much the same? Bosch has 1 yr waranty, Gagg has 5.

Also, I'm also not sure how to verify that a new unit would actually fit without removing the current one. There are tolerances on the fit -- just not sure what mine are. Ideas anyone?

Shame about that Thermador. It's gorgeous and that color would be perfect.

You can go to the induction site (Link supplied below),then select the size cutout you have, then it lists available units in "North America".

As of a couple years ago, ApplianceSalesVet, there were only 2 manufacturers of the actual hobs (Heating elements), as you suggested in another post.
They were Fagor (France, I believe), and AEG (Electrolux) Sweden. This was according to "The Induction Site".

So far, I have not been able to find any further info as to whether there are actually more suppliers for those "Hobs" now.

Gary

Here is a link that might be useful: Induction cooktop sizing

Many thanks Gary for that super useful link. (You can call or research for me any time LOL).

My worry is the tolerance of the cutout. I know from talking to Viking that their 36" will fit in my cutout -- they are interchangeable. But I don't care for their configuration.

Best one for me is the Gagg with the knob -- need to take a closer look at the Wolf.

Fagor is based in Spain, I believe, and is the biggest supplier of induction in Europe per their website.

Still would be interesting to know if there are so few manufacturers why the the prices and waranties are so all variable.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fagor

measure your existing cutout; it will be slightly different in size from the Viking's cutout dimensions.

There IS 1/8" tolerance in cutouts, as far as i know. But measure yours to see what you have. Perhaps it was cut a bit larger on the one dimension where you "need" it. The trim pieces cover the gap left when the item slides into the cutout: this is why there is some room to play with. If it's a cooktop with no trim, then it's just the top plate that covers it. You get the picture. If you have a cutout that is a bit too wide, then the cover will need to be centered over it with only a small overhang to spare.

Rococcogurl,

Do talk to an installer. There are many ways to adapt to an installation area, so long as the hole isn't too small. A really top installer can do some pretty spectacular things! Can you remove your drawers and see the actual cutout from underneath the current unit? To get the actual measure?

I would guess that there's not very much performance variation between induction cooktops. During the time that the big run-up in the U.S. has happened, a plethora of features in the electronics (computer) made the big differences, but those get copied and the field gets evened again. There also used to be a wider difference in power, which has become more averaged.

Warranties are sales tools. A lot of people were wiggling off the Gaggenau hook because of the luxury price, partially saying that they'd pay all this money and what happens if something goes awry when it's only 2 years old. The warranty tells them that they can feel assured that Gaggenau has their back.

I think the thing about the magnet in the knob is if you hold it up to the TV. Mine is on my island, about 6 feet away, and I've never tried to use electronics near the stove. I'd think the magnets in the inductors would have far more influence on electronics, and their field is limited by design. I think the warning is so that you'll not to let your toddler run around the house trying to stick the knob to things that shouldn't be near strong magnets. I have some refrigerator magnets with extra strong stick that have the same warning.

I LOVE the knob. I'm very pleased with the whole unit, but only have demos to compare it to. On repute, it has much better tolerance for lifting, dripping and all those other things that triggered previous models' auto-shutoffs. My only "complaint" is, as I mentioned above, my cabinets are too well made and when all the air volume underneath is good and warm from cooling the electronics, first boost becomes unavailable, and then, if I don't open a drawer, the unit will turn off to save itself. Only happens with a full 16 quart stockpot bubbling away for hours and hours, and doesn't bother me now that I figured out about opening the drawer. :)

This unfortunate picture is the best one I have from above. Add another pair of smaller elements on the left hand side, and you'll have the 36" version. There are (or have been) models without the stainless trim, but I wanted that to go with the gas unit and the tile. I don't know what this poor picture was about, though I'm guessing it was to show a friend that the Le Creuset 2-in-1 pot really is useful. :) Those bright lines near the front on the surface are reflections, not scratches. In the back, there's reflection of the pattern on the backsplash tile.

Rocogurl - are you moving from gas to radient electric -or from induction to electric? I have a DIVA induction cooktop and the specs allowed me to have a drawer underneath similar to pillog's. I have had no trouble with electrical outages. The unit works normally after the power returns to the house. I believe my unit cycles on low temps - I have no problem leaving chocolate - etc. directly on the burner - could leave it all day. All I hear is a soft clicking and occasionally a hum at lower temps. My only complaints with my unit are: 1) somehow I missed that two of my zones power share - it isn't all that much of a problem as it just prevents both zones from being used at 12 (highest). If I have one at the 12 the other automatically reduces to 6, yet I can use them both at 11 - go figure. 2) and this really is my biggest complaint is that the touch screen can turn off or up if it gets damp - so if water boils over or splashes onto the control sensor the zone turns off - or worse up. Also, if my hands are wet it can be difficult to operate the control. I would opt for a knob or slider control over the touch screen.

plllog, great idea to remove the drawer to see if I can exactly measure the cutout. My worry is that I'll be off by 2/8" or something dumb but I'd discuss that fully before any purchase.

Thanks for showing me the top. I was concerned about clearance in back but I have as much as you do, if not slightly more.

Hear you on the biggest pots. I do have a beloved 12-quart and make a lot of soup but leaving the drawer open is something that happens without much effort (especially when DH is using the cooktop).

lucy, I'd be moving from electric radiant to induction potentially. My first choice was gas but we were unable to retrofit and needed the tank dedicated to the backup generator. Think the Gagg also shares power zones in the same way as your Diva -- but not sure as I read both that and the Bosch specs before my third cup of coffee.

Outages are ongoing and not infrequent. Having had unfortunate experience replacing electronics in the Viking after two separate incidents I would need the comfort of knowing the circuits wouldn't be blown on a cooktop. Perhaps that's the only benefit of electric radiant but it is one.

davidro, my existing cooktop and cutout are for a Viking. So I would need to swap for a unit with the same cutout but that cannot be measured exactly without removing the current cooktop, which would require a service call. DH and I have deep knowledge of many things but DIY electrical is not one of them.

My model is from a couple of years ago, but it has a pretty standard power sharing set up. The two smaller elements are twinned. The inner and outer rings of the large element are also, technically, twinned, but the outer doesn't work separately from the inner (of course), so that doesn't have a noticeable effect. There isn't a big problem with power sharing. You can't boost boil both elements together, but it doesn't come up much in actual practice.

In mine, the inner ring of the large element is a tad less powerful than the front ring, and the rear ring is the least powerful. I never realized how much I'd notice the power differences. Unless I'm using a big pot which will engage the outer ring (at which point the large element goes blastomatic), I use the front one for preference, and put the second pot in the center, as in the picture with the saucepan in the center of the large element. I mostly use the rear element with a one quart pot, and for things like rice, melting chocolate or butter, etc., or for making a single egg in my blini pan. It has plenty enough power to do more than that, but the others are better.

Actually, if there's still a power difference between Gaggenau and Bosch, that might be your answer. I'm surprised at how noticeable even a very small difference in power output is.

rococogurl: to measure cutout, look underneath.

If you want to lift the current electric cooktop you do not need a service call. (For reassurances, post on the wiring forum and they will tell you the same. "...DH and I have deep knowledge of many things but DIY electrical is not one of them...")

Of course, since you know a bit about how I operate, it won't surprise you to read that I might suggest sliding a few toothpicks under the trim surrounding your existing cooktop. It's not charged, there is no shock possible. Once you get it raised 1/16th of an inch, slide something thicker under the trim, all around. Clean up the gunk and look at the cutout. YOu can see it when you lift the cooktop 1/8". In the Electrical Wiring forum you will get confirmation: don't take just one guy's word for it.

The Really Big Point being made here is this: stop reading PDF's and go look at what you have.

davidro - once again, thanks but no thanks. I leave electrical things to pros.

rococogurl - when you said: "sensor that equalizes temperature by turning the burner power off and on automatically"......was this in the Thermador owner's manual? I couldn't find it. I'm verifying this also with my Thermador rep. I know the burner will shut it self off after running for a period of time on the highest setting - and then you have to reset it. But when I'm running our live Thermador demo induction cooktop, I haven't noticed the burner fluctuating as stated.

In regards to price, Bosch is not price protected by UMRP like Thermador and Gaggenau. Honestly if I were selling you the Thermador, there is enough margin in that unit to offer you free shipping and 5-year extended warranty for no extra charge. Maybe you can get your local dealer to offer free installation?

Thermador's identifying stock in trade has been the sensor burner. My mother had this on her coil top in the '60's (never did work right until hte sensor broke and it became a normal burner). Recently they've been advertising the same feature for their induction cooktop. I think this feature has only been promoted for the last year or two.

AV -- I love the looks and power on this unit and can see why you recommended it. The 14" burner is great. But take a look on the link below, then click on their Design Guide. One of the first pix you'll see is that sensor that pops up -- you can see it clearly says that cycles the burners on and off. Also, check out the downdraft and the specs for what's needed below.

If you have a live one, is it this very one or another? They also reference a heat shield. So it's unclear what's what.

After an oven switch out I've learned to be super careful and read everything and query -- no good swap can go unpunished even with something as benign as a ceiling fan.

Good as it looks, there are questions.

Gagg is a no-go for me. The lone dealer within 50 miles doesn't service.

The reliable o/o place about an hour away with a good service doesn't sell Gagg but highly recommends Wolf and Miele. The Miele doesn't fit but the Wolf is actually a great candidate as their cutout is a few 8ths smaller than the cutout for my current electric radiant. Dealer -- who came to the phone himself -- echoed everything said around about Wolf in terms of durability, quality, service. Largest template is 11" but seems adequate for plllog who I relate to in terms of the cooking we do.

Here is a link that might be useful: Go to Design Guide - Induction Cooktops

I am very late to this party...But the funny thing is, Rococogurl, that I was just about to get my coffee before reading this thread, but didn't...So saved my keyboard. :-) I didn't realize that Thermador would have such a different type of sensor that isn't used on Gagg or Bosch! Now Monogram....

Roco - the sensor dome only comes on certain models and it's a feature you can use or not use. In the case of the mirrored silver CIT365GM, this model does not have the sensor dome feature. Btw, this feature works in conjunction with heat sensitive stickers you place on your cookware. And for example you would set the burner for "rice" and it would cook it at the perfect temp, even shutting the burner off set by timer if desired.

As far as cycling - all electrical elements (induction or otherwise) cycle on and off. Just like an oven burner does. You probably won't notice on induction because the cycling is rapid and there's no visual signature of this.

The heat shield is not necessary and can be removed - I've run into this before and I've verified it with Thermador. Just don't put anything in the drawer below like a canister under pressure or small pieces of paper that could be sucked up by the air flow underneath the cooktop.

You can use your own hood - Thermador is just making suggestions for what hood to buy.

I have a side-by-side comparison of the Thermador vs. Wolf induction I can email by request - really interesting information.

AV I would love the see the side by side comparison. If you don't mind emailing me at yahoo that would be terrific. You are very kind to help with this.

Other question is whether the "drawer below" can be like the one plllog showed above. It's a scooped out utensil drawer and I would not want to lose it. Does that leave enough air circulation space?

There's also the junction box which is not really possible due to the drawers but I'd cross that bridge with the contractor.

I know that many manufacturers cater to folks who need automatic settings to cook. I loathe them but I have that luxury as I know how to cook. Also cannot imagine how the sensor would know what's in the pot and how long to cook it -- unless they've gone to food drive menus a la Turbochef. I'd expect to just set the time in the beginning.

The auto turn off on these is spectacular though. Need to see if Therm have a showroom near me. I know I can go play with the Wolf.

One comment, from reviewing the design guide the heat shield seems only necessary for an installation above an oven. As to the Thermador hood it was recommended. Sounds to me like more of a sales pitch.

You need a heat shield over a drawer too, but it's just a thin piece of plywood to deflect the heated air from the cooling fans away from your utensils.

If you have space behind your drawers, you should be fine with a very shallow space between the bottom of your induction and the heat shield. Usually an inch or so. My pot drawers are something like 21" deep, which leaves room for the wiring and gas line, and is sufficient free space for enough air volume to cool with (except on stock days--it's good enough for spaghetti sauce, though that may also be time of year).

Re size, you usually have a couple of inches leeway on the diameter of the flat part of the bottom of your pot. My stockpot is exactly 11". I would love to have that 14" element, however, as I do think the Le Creuset bean pot (15 qt. round, which I skipped a marvelous sale on) would be too big to do well on my 11" element. Twelve inches, or even 13", should be fine, especially for occasional use, and for things you stir.

Do make sure you like the controls of the wolf. Last I looked they were a bit funky.

AV, thanks for the sensor dome explanation.