Viking is certainly a master at marketing, starting with equipping just about every kitchen on the Food Network. As for performance, my take on it - NONE of it personal experience... Ranges/rangetops perform adequately but nothing special, and everyone knows about their bad reputation but yet, for some unexplained reason, few come to this forum to complain about them first hand. Fridges - definitely read many first-hand problems here. Dishwashers - I never took note.

As such, overall a "Viking kitchen" wouldn't sway me one way or the other. But I'm sure it would sway others.

I would consider Viking to be in the high-end product class. Certainly much higher than builder-grade.

But that's the point, if every new condo is building Viking kitchens, it becomes a mass market product and loses it's cache, asides from being a questionable performer. However, I suppose that most people when buying hear the name Viking and are not appliance afficiandos and go WOW. For me it's not a deal breaker, but something so think about.

Yes, the "Viking kitchen" is from the Viking marketing department making deals with luxury builders. And yes, because of that, even those pretending to luxury are going for it. But as Dadoes said, it's much higher end than what is meant by "builder grade". You might say "builder choice" instead. But Viking kitchen is used as a come on in real estate ads the way SubZero is. It's cachet, which, as Pantryqueen said, is dimming through exposure.

As to reliability, Viking seems to be making a big push about that. There have been some issues reported with their ranges, but not in greater quantities, it seems to me, than for other brands in the same segment. I think the issues are more unusual, however. Like, I think they're the ones where some of the oven doors were sheering and falling off. ALL brands have issues, however.

Viking used to have other companies their refrigeration, dishwashers, etc. I know they designed the best ever garbage disposer, which all the high end stores have displays for. It was made for them by Insinkerator. Then Insinkerator used their specs to design their own version of the Viking, which costs less, isn't as good looking, but is a more convenient shape. I got one of the latter on the salesman's advice.

Similarly, they used to have DW's made for them by Asko. I don't know how good or bad it was. But they now make their own DW's with the best layout and operating design I've seen. Since I hate just about every other DW on the market I bought one of these too. We'll see how it goes once it's installed (next month).

I've heard that they've also changed their refrigeration from what people hated, but I don't know more about it.

I do know some people who have recently bought Viking cooking equipment--cooking was their entry--and LOVE it. but I don't know how they'd feel about other things available. Maybe they'd like Bluestar better if they cooked on one...

Viking has a LONG way to go to be as ubiquitous as JennAir in the "upscale" "builder's choice" sweepstakes. Folks around here have mostly never even heard of Viking. Maybe 5%. Everyone's heard of JennAir and aspires to owning a JennAir kitchen. Search me why. I don't get it either. However, for true "builder's grade" appliances, most builders get a "sweet suite" deal with GE for their lowest grade stainless. For the basic entry level trailers here (and that's a lot of the housing in the South), it's Americana or Hotpoint.

It's only in very select markets with a preponderance of upscale demographics and on this forum where the "pro" grade appliances are even considered as part of a build or renovation. Your average American might spend 5K on a home's appliances--and they consider that exhorbitant! This forum---and certain markets are NOT real life for most.

Hey folks great input on the question, I thank you all for taking the time to respond.

where i am viking is considered the LV of designer purses. a friend of mine was redoing her kitchen and she was telling me how she was dreaming of a viking range. i told her she should come here and have a look at all the posts (good and bad) and then decide. i mentioned that their popularity is mostly (if not all) due to a very aggressive marketing budget. her husband was there and perked up right away as this had been his concern. upon further discussion i mentioned reading here about product problems and she said, "i don't care. i wannnnnnnnt one." the very reason i don't.

I've seen Viking kitchens, around here in new attached property (townhouse) in the $750K+ range. They had base, classic 30" gas ranges non-self cleaning, with upgrades at extra cost. Maybe that, with the Amana-based fridge allowed them to equip the kithcens under $10K for appliances. Even then none had the OTR microwave they offer-thankfully.

I chose to buy Viking for my DIY redo for all the reasons you can imagine and I AM THRILLED with the looks, performance and reliability thusfar. My dual fuel range sems to solve most of the complaints that people seem to have with problematic gas ranges of all brands. The Amana based fridge looks great with the Viking faux built-in trim kit and should be reliable as any standard box.

Viking seems to be the default for higher-end condo builders in my urban area and I figured it was a deal aggressively pursed by Viking marketing to get their stuff into the new buildings.

If people are renovating/building themselves, other brands have equal cachet and get singled out in real-estate ads: Wolf/SubZero, Miele, Bosch. Even though this forum likes them equally well, JennAir, KitchenAid Architect and GE Profile don't have quite the same "ooh" factor.

I agree that there are some high-end condo marketing buzz words. Especially for people who dont research things for themselves. Here is what i have heard thrown around in LA for high-end high rise lofts.
-All viking kitchen
-italian cabinetry
-italian porcelain tile
-kohler faucetry

So i think it is 'builder-grade' for high price builders :)

Show me a $400 Viking range and I'll show you Viking 'Builders grade'.

weedmeister - Clearly she meant common and expected, not from a cost perspective. Kind of like how in some areas granite is considered "the new Formica."

Ya_think,
You are so smart....weedmeister, come on, was not comparing Viking to GE or Kitchenaid (not that there is anything wrong with those products...my cook top is GE and my frig is Kenmore Elite and both are excellent).

My point was that it seems in the NY/NJ metro area, all new, higher end construction has an All Viking kitchen. Not, KA, not GE, etc. My nephew has an condo in NYC in which his Viking Kitchen is almost as big as the entire apartment. Alot of good that does him. I just thought this was an interesting observation.

IIRC, folks in LA refer to a Mercedes as a 'Beverly Hills Pinto' or some such. I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

I think the phrase "Builders Grade" may have raised some danders. Viking has built a luxury brand that has grown to a point where even the average consumer has heard of them. That means that they have an opportunity to create a more economical product line to take advantage of that. That also means that builders might include them as part of a standard upgrade or simply as a standard "all-in-one" brand. Is it wrong for them to do this? No. Does it diminish their high-end market? Maybe yes, maybe no? Many companies that grow beyond the exclusive high-end market find themselves having to choose to focus on one or the other. Over time it's hard to ignore the amount of money in a mass consumer market with a marquee brand. Viking has clearly reached that point and has for quite some time. I think builder looking to attract a more image conscious market might very well decide on a "Viking kitchen". Wolf is heading in this direction as well if not already there.

This is also the reason they *must* have dishwashers and fridges etc. The average consumer that may not do a whole lot of research but want quality (perceived or real) look for a brand they know of as high-end. In most cases, people serious about their kitchen select best-of-class appliances rather than stick to a specific brand. This takes work however and builders are not going to provide this type of kitchen since they don't have as much negotiation power which means costs go up. Not to mention some (most?) people actually don't want mixed brand kitchens.

So in an area where real estate is inherently expensive, adding a higher end brand as a standard is a much smaller fraction of the total cost of the unit and can provide an intangible appeal. A $1.02M apartment/condo in NYC with Viking appliances will probably sell better than a similar $1M unit. The Viking kitchen probably cost the builder less than $10k which leaves an extra $10k profit. Now in an area were the going rate for a condo is $200k, the extra $10k is much harder to swing. Even if $210k is acceptable, there's no profit advantage.

At the end of the day, people buy what appeals to them for whatever reason. For many/most, this is brand. Heck, I know for a fact that some significant number of people buy Wolf just for the red knobs. :)

Amcook,
I think your answer hits home exactly!