Keep the 4' hallway. Had one in our old house and loved it, in the new house it's 39" and you can definitely tell.

I would put French doors or some sort of exit from the MBR to the patio.

You might consider moving the second bath to a spot between the 2 secondary bathrooms.

Definitely change out that big window in the Master BR and put in a slider or french doors. You will end up wishing you'd done that ...it provides an additional safety exit also.
I disagree with the idea of moving the second bath....it needs to be near the family room for easy use for guests.
The kids in the second bedrooms know where to find it !

Sorry phillpeh but I don't understand your bathroom statement. The main/kids bathroom is between the entrance and one of the kids rooms, the only other bathroom is the master bathroom which has a large shower, no bathtub.

I played around a bit with the roof, extended the back wall of the garage where the door is so it lines up with the master bedroom/bath wall. This is what I came up with, I added a porch on the front to spice it up a bit but it's still pretty boring. If anyone has ideas, let me know!

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I love having the master closet off the master bath. Your shower and dressing area is righ there. You could rework your master bath by moving the washer/dryer to where you currently have the master closet. Put the linen closet in with the w/d, insulate the wall for sound to keep things quiet.
Also, how about double french coming out of the dining area. With friends in the summer, spring, you could open things up on the deck. I have double french that open out onto an enclosed screen porch.

Fabyone when you say master closet off the master bath, does this mean your only way into the closet is through the bathroom? I put french doors in the master bedroom, I was hesitant at first because I wasn't sure if it would feel weird having a ground floor door in my bedroom but you guys seems pretty convinced it won't be regretted :) I like the idea of french doors off the dining room too, the only reason I put a window and door there instead is because I'm not a big fan of sliding doors but for some reason french doors completely slipped my mind. Thanks!

Are you interested in a covered porch instead of the deck? I am envisioning a cape cod style with the roof a little higher pitch than what you are showing, then a gable over the garage to break it up. You could have some "fake" dormers for interest. The roof would come down in back like it does in front which would result in the deck being covered. I think that would be nice if you just poured that as part of the foundation - you could screen it or just leave it open air. Not sure how helpful that is, but that is what I thought when I saw the plan.

The floorplan looks nice and efficient. I would try to make the master bed and bath a little larger (still under same roof line - deck/porch just gets smaller. They are pretty small. I don't need my master huge, but I am afraid those are going to be a little tight over the long term and for resale. Good luck.

8'10" is very tight for a bedroom. I wouldn't go smaller than 10'.

That's a very long hallway and I feel there's a bit of wasted space at the end. I would end in where the laundry room ends and reconfigure it a bit to make it work.

Well that bedroom is only 8'10" where the master closet pokes in, it's 11'1" otherwise and 12'2" long so it's actually larger than the other bedroom. But yes they're not large bedrooms, but they're kids bedrooms. I could move the wall out more on the master bedroom like someone suggested to make it larger and just keep the closet the same size but pull it out of the kids bedroom. Regarding shortening the hallway, do you have any ideas? I tried a bunch of configurations to try and shorten it but it just never worked..

Polkadots, we would prefer an open deck, we're in Quebec so our summers don't get too hot. I will try your idea of a steeper roof with a gable over the garage, thanks!

My mstr clost is off the entrance to the bath, I also have a separate water closet off the sink/shower area. You may not have the room to do that. Design your ideal master space. Remember, kicking out a wall a couple of feet doesnt affect the overall square footage that much in terms of cost to build, but more area in the master makes your personal space so much nicer.

I personally love covered screen porches because I attract a lot of bugs when outside. It becomes a great space, especially if you put a couple sky lights in the porch. The cost to screen in a porch is not much more than putting on a deck, but it becomes almost like another room.

I am with phillipeh - I wouldn't want the kids bath backing up to the entrance hall. I would put it between the two kids bedrooms.

I also would not like entering your house from the entrance hall and directly into the "l" of two hallways . . . Is there a way you can reconfigure so the entry opens onto the den (a much more typical arrangement) rather than a hallway . . .

Having said that, I have a bias against long hallways and even though we have a very long house, we have tried to eliminate most of them, particularly downstairs.

i guess i'm just not terribly particular when it comes to the master bed/bath, i spend no time in my bedroom. i sleep, shower, get dressed, and then don't return until it's time to sleep again unless i slip into something comfy after work :) personally, i think i would much rather have to walk out of the bathroom to get to my closet than to always have to go through my bathroom to get to my closet. did that make sense? :)

i think ideally i should switch the laundry room with the master closet, this would put the closet closer to the bathroom but would also allow me to vent the dryer straight outside. the way it is now i'd need a 90 degree turn and it would vent onto the deck. i don't have any experience with this but am i wrong to think that this is less than ideal? the problem is switching them leaves me with an awkward space for laundry room and no linen closet..

does anyone know if there's any issue with my great room window wall? it works out to be 31'6" (exterior dimensions) wall to wall. we haven't seen an engineer/architect yet but i'm curious if that will be an issue or what the usual restrictions are for room size?

thanks!

ps. if anyone has any ideas on how to shorten the hallway or move the laundry room to a better spot for dryer venting please let me know!

Whoops, didn't see your post athensmomof3. Can you explain what the issue is with have the kids bathroom beside the entrance? I figured it would be best to have it there as its the main bathroom for the house so it's as close to the living area as possible while still being right beside the kids bedrooms.

Regarding the entrance, different strokes for different folks I guess :) I like how its a good size, connected to the garage, and no matter where you go in the house you never have to walk through there so the mess stays contained. I agree though, would love to figure out a sensible way to shorten the bedroom hallway. Here's what the entrance looks like at the L interesction, the hallway leading to the living room is about 6 feet wide.

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Chances are that this will not be your forever home, and a time will come when you need to sell this house. While you may think the bedroom sizes are sufficient for your needs, most people would find them functionally small, and you need to design for ease of resale as much as for your own needs.

With that in mind, it is much more efficient to design bedroom space that allows for ease of bed making, with enough floor space around each bed to make the bed comfortably without having to crawl around on top of it because it's up against a wall. You also need to allow room for bed side tables, which most people have and use. There should also be enough room for desks, and/or shelves, as well as bureau's in each room. There needs to be more room for "stuff", because we all have it.

Having just a single sink in the master bathroom would haunt you on resale, as will a walk-in closet for two adults that's only 6'x6'. That allows for just 2 feet of clear space in the middle for maneuvering, which is really tight.

I think you should seriously consider bumping out the master bedroom and bath walls a few feet to allow for a different configuration of those areas, as well as expanding the smallest bedroom. An additional 50-60 s.f. of space could allow for a much more functional arrangement of all those areas - which would be more pleasant for you now, and invaluable when the time comes to sell.

Nanny2a, ok so I made a few things bigger, but it's difficult to make the kids corner bedroom bigger without either making the master closet small, or having the master closet encroach on the master bedroom. If I made the rooms deeper then the entrance and bathroom, which are already long, get longer. If I make the rooms wider then the long hallway gets longer. How's this?

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The kids corner bedroom is more awkwardly shaped than the other but it also has two windows, both are 120 sqft. The kids closets are offset a foot to allow for built in shelving. My sister has this in one of her kids bedrooms and it's pretty nice, it holds all their books, toys, trophies, etc. It leaves plenty of room in their closets for all their clothes so they don't need dressers. But in the corner bedroom they could still fit a dresser between the bed and shelves, or get rid of the shelves and put a desk and small bookcase in. Or turn the bed 90 degrees up against the wall and make a lot of room. What do you think? :)

Regarding the double sink in the master bedroom, I don't think we're going to budge on that, we simply don't want or need two sinks. To be honest, I don't know a single person with two sinks in their master bath so it likely won't be a resale issue in our area and price range. Most don't even have a master bathroom :) Thanks!

1. I'd steal 1' from the dining room--which is extra-wide--to have a bigger kitchen. I recommend you post the kitchen plans over on the kitchen forum.

2. Kids' spaces. Uh, NO, on the size of the second kids' bedroom. Unless you have a dedicated playroom (you don't think you will--really???? multiple guest rooms and no play room???), that's wholly insufficient for a child, his toys, and his friends. The hall bath is EXCELLENT, however. Since there is no half bath on this floor, that's the best place for it.

3. Master bedroom. No way on that bathroom. There's no room for a vanity, and no way of making room--complete deal breaker for me. Do you never ear makeup? If you are EVER going to sell this house, remember that most women will not accept a master bath without room for their cosmetics, in some form.

4. Entry. Oh, no, way. I love cubbies--but not as the first thing a guest sees!!!! Those will be constantly trashed looking. If the must stay, keep them behind doors!

5. Closets. Great linen and entry closets, but the kids' closets and the master closet are BARELY sufficient. Now, we're pretty non-materialistic, here, but anything less than a 6' closet for a kid won't hold anything but clothes--no toys, etc. The master closet would have plenty running for the hills right away! It's only got 6' of hanging space per person. Now, my DH has 5', but he's got it crammed, and while I can do just fine in 4', I'm the only woman I've ever met with so few clothes. I'd strongly recommend 8' of hanging space, each, unless you have dedicated off season closets.

The BIGGEST problem, though, is the facade. That's a fugly house, no two ways about it. It looks like a trailer. And it's lovely inside, so it shouldn't.

Compare your facade to these, all 1500-1750 sqft:

http://www.slhouseplans.com/exec/action/plans/browsemode/thumbnails/filter/browsemode.thumbnails%3bflrs.0%3bsqftmax.1750%3bsqftmin.1500?pvs=isrp.true

http://www.slhouseplans.com/exec/action/plans/browsemode/details/filter/browsemode.thumbnails%3bflrs.0%3bsqftmax.1750%3bsqftmin.1500/page/13/planid/24555/planname/sl1346?pvs=tot.54

http://www.slhouseplans.com/exec/action/plans/browsemode/details/filter/browsemode.thumbnails%3bflrs.0%3bsqftmax.1750%3bsqftmin.1500/page/7/planid/28226/planname/sl1648?pvs=tot.54

http://www.slhouseplans.com/exec/action/plans/browsemode/details/filter/browsemode.thumbnails%3bflrs.0%3bsqftmax.1750%3bsqftmin.1500/page/4/planid/21487/planname/sl299?pvs=tot.54

http://www.slhouseplans.com/exec/action/plans/browsemode/details/filter/browsemode.thumbnails%3bflrs.0%3bsqftmax.1750%3bsqftmin.1500/page/5/planid/21760/planname/sl671?pvs=tot.54

http://www.slhouseplans.com/exec/action/plans/browsemode/details/filter/browsemode.thumbnails%3bflrs.0%3bsqftmax.1750%3bsqftmin.1500/page/1/planid/21536/planname/sl354?pvs=tot.54

The problem is that you drew a bunch of rooms and now want to throw a roof on top of a front rectangle and somehow make it attractive. Never going to happen. The house will also seem a lot bigger if the floorplan is more sophisticated, too. Choose a basic *attractive* shape and go from there. Long, skinny rectangle with the front-loading garage flush with the front is NOT attractive.

1. taking 1' from the dining area for the kitchen would just make the space between sink and fridge sides 6' instead of 5'. i was thinking at 5' that it might be too much? i could use that extra 1' to make the peninsula counter deeper though

2. mentionned it in my first post but you probabably missed it, basement would have a kids/tv room. most likely quite large

3. i don't come from a big makeup wearing family, actually i can't think of anyone that wears more than eyeliner :) i guess i'll have to rework the master bath. how much counter space (including sink) is an ideal vanity? we definitely won't be doing the double sink thing

4. what entrance cubbies are you talking about? in any case i would definitely take a functional entry over a pretty entry anyday :)

5. regarding closets, the updated plan actually has 16' of hanging space in the master. 8' along the back wall and then 4' on each side. in the kids bedrooms closets are offset by 1', thats so that we could put in built in shelving to house all their toys, books, trophies, etc.. so that their closets can hold their clothes :) and then there's plenty of room for a dresser. don't forget this is an 1800 sqft house not 3800sqft. and of course with 1800 sqft in the basement we could built a big closet to put off season stuff should we run out of room upstairs.

6. and here you've hit on the big problem :) i guess it looks like a trailer but to me it's actually a very very common bungalow design here (from the front) but wider because of the two car garage. there are entire suburbs of brick bungalows in the suburbs. it's simple to build and therefore cheaper to build but yeah not terribly pretty. normally i wouldn't really care but if we're going to make the effort to build our own house we should spice up the front a bit. thanks for the links but they're all cottage designs, i'll browse around though, thanks!

Yes it does look like a double wide trailer . . . with a less functional interior.

I really don't understand why people think they can design a three bedroom two bath house better than an architect? There are soooo many house plan sites out there that I would think for such a basic design with no tricky needs you could do SO MUCH BETTER.

The floor plan looks exactly like what apparently happened - draw a rectangle and fit everything in.

I am not sure why the issue with a cottage style? Vast improvement over a trailer :) All the house plan sites will let you search by style though so if you are looking for a bungalow (which sounds like a Craftsman style which doesn't look at all like what you drew), then you should be able to get a much more functional floor plan.

Hmm I'm probably using the wrong term. In any case in Canada we have a lot of one story http://www.innatkellysford.com/images/accomm/RanchHouse.jpg

We call them bungalows but I think the proper term is ranch style? according to wikipedia. I personally find that to be a nice simple house. We definitely don't want two floors if we can help it. I've lived in one story homes and two story homes and I see no point in building on multiple levels unless lot size and proximity to neighbors is an issue.

But Athensmomof3, what is not functional about my plan? I want to build my own home specifically because I've looked through a thousand plans and found them all to be so lacking or wasteful. Please share your thoughts! Here is another variation which would the bedrooms on the east side for morning sun:

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You are wasting a lot of square footage on hallways, which are a very poor use of space, and really the least attractive part of a home. The bedrooms are very small, as well as the master bath and will certainly affect resale.

I feel like I am looking through a tunnel as I enter your home based on your pictures. I urge you to stand at the end of a hallway and look down a hallway and this is the view you will have when you enter your home. Not attractive and almost claustrophobic. Even more importantly, this will be the view your guests will have as well.

If you moved your living room to the front and the kitchen towards the back you could eliminate or shorten one or both hallways, which would help tremendously.

I also wouldn't want to have a share entry for the garage and the front door. Too far from the kitchen and too many doors in a small entry and just not particularly functional. Even if it works for you I doubt it will work for many people on resale.

Of course, if you don't plan to resell, build the house for you. However, these stock plans are stock for a reason - they appeal to the masses.

I guess I am having a hard time figuring out why you are so attached to this floor plan?? It appears to have no different or unusual rooms or requirements, so I can only assume this layout is appealing to you. It just wouldn't work for me or my children or pets.

http://www.architecturaldesigns.com/house-plans.asp

Check this link out. These plans all seem more functional and will all the same rooms. I like how one of the plans loads the cars on the front but then the entry to the house is on the storage area part. . .

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, we just like different things I think. I'm with you one the hallway though, still playing around. I definitely disagree about the garage door not being functional, I think it's incredibly functional and saves a lot of room. Why have two small entrance areas when you can have one big one? What have your shoes and coats scattered in two places? Two closet? Two shoeracks? You might not think it's big but at 9x12 it's pretty friggin big to me! :) I guess it's all relative, I'm assuming you don't live in a 1500-1800 sqft house. Most people I know don't even have a master bath nevermind one thats too small :) Why do we like this setup? Precisely because the living room isn't in the front with the kitchen in the back like every other house. We want the living area in one big open room, facing the backyard for privacy and with a big wall of south facing windows. I don't see why the garage has to be off the kitchen? Just like I don't see why you have to have your kitchen sink up against a wall with a window. I think it might have to do with many years of condo and loft living :) It's a 15' walk from garage door to fridge door in the layout above, I'm willing to bet that's better than most people.

By the way, here's what the view from the entrance looks like in that last plan I posted, The entrance is 9 feet wide at the door, 7 feet wide at the closet, and the narrowest path between the fridge and staircase is 6' wide.

And here's what the outside of the original plan looks like with a couple small changes. Looking better already :)

Sounds like you are really getting things the way you want them - that's great! I have to ask what program you are using to do the 3D images of the inside? Those are so wonderful and so helpful to see how things are going to feel.

its chief architect x2, if you like the screenshots you'll love the ability to walk around i 3d :)

I am guessing you don't have kids . . . I lived in a 1200 square foot house with my husband before kids. Now we have 3 and two dogs and our house which is twice as big is too small.

Take seriously the comments about the room size. As far as play area goes, having one in the basement is fine if you have teenagers. It will not work for young kids, unless you plan to be down there with them (and thus unable to do wash, cook dinner, etc.)

Our oldest is 9 and just now playing upstairs. The younger ones want to be downstairs with us. If there rooms were bigger, they could play in there but I promise you that won't work.

You need to think about toy storage as well. If there is no playroom, there should be at least a large closet to store toys. I promise you they will overtake your house. The walk in closet in the front hall would work well for that if you don't have other plans.

Of course, you may have a difference tolerance level to clutter than I do. I am very neat and keep a very neat house. I have to have all picked up by the end of the day as I can't walk out to a mess in the morning. Our new house is designed so everything has its place, and its place is out of view. If it doesnt bother you to have your den stacked with toys (and it doesn't bother lots of folks) or you don't plan on putting them away each day, then you and I have very different needs :).

Likewise about the entry. When you have kids with jackets, boots, lunchboxes, backpacks, baseball bags, swim bags, etc. you have to have a place to put that. Preferably by the door so nothing is missed when you are on your way to school, batting practice, swim team, soccer meet, etc. I personally would not want that to be the view of my guests to my house as it will always be a wreck. That is why the two entrances. Family entrance and clutter by the family entrance, leaving all the clutter, notes, mail to be posted, backpacks, keys, purses, etc. out of plain view to those that visit.

Did you look at the link I posted? Almost every house in the first few has the den, kitchen breakfast along the back. Moving the den to the front in your plan is the only way I can think of to shorten that hallway. Otherwise, you have to be able to get to those rooms from the front hall.

You have a very large percentage of your house devoted to nonfunctional hallways. As a one story house, those hallways are very expensive. If you had a two story, having such a long hall wouldn't cost so much.

The house plan site of ranches had a number that appeared to meet your criteria and had the den and kitchen where you wanted them. The difference is the bedroom wing is much more efficient.

http://www.architecturaldesigns.com/ranch-house-plan-3914st.asp#96364684-c07b-4b25-b446-fc3a599d0ff2

http://www.architecturaldesigns.com/ranch-house-plan-89131ah.asp#bdfa7b90-7049-4b07-987c-4537cabfdbca

http://www.architecturaldesigns.com/ranch-house-plan-8919ah.asp#d

These all seem to have all 3 bedrooms in a pod running parallel to the front door instead of perpendicular which eliminates that long hallway.

My previous home was a typical brick mid century ranch 1850 sq feet, 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms. There was a finished basement which added another 700 sq feet with a rec room, guest bedroom & bath. We lived in that home for 6 years and it functioned pretty well.

The main issues were:
-the size of the master bath which was 4'x 9'.
-Master closet was not a walk in and on the other side of bedroom. My husband wakes up for work at 5:30, I wake up at 7. It was impossible for him to get ready without waking me.
-master was 12 x 14 which was great for a queen bed, would not fit a king.
-lack of mudroom. Stuff got dumped in the kitchen & dining room.
- kids bedrooms were about 10 x 11 and a sufficient size.
- I really wish we had a separate 1/2 bath for guests. The hall bath was my son's and not always the neatest and the decor was more "kiddish".
- our home did have a study/office on the first floor.

I hope this is helpful.

>1. taking 1' from the dining area for the kitchen would just make the space between sink and fridge sides 6' instead of 5'. i was thinking at 5' that it might be too much? i could use that extra 1' to make the peninsula counter deeper though

Not at ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>2. mentionned it in my first post but you probabably missed it, basement would have a kids/tv room. most likely quite large

That's good for kids who are at least elementary age, but mine want to "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE with YOOOOOOOOOOOOU" for the first few years. Which means they're within eyeshot.

>3. i don't come from a big makeup wearing family, actually i can't think of anyone that wears more than eyeliner :) i guess i'll have to rework the master bath. how much counter space (including sink) is an ideal vanity? we definitely won't be doing the double sink thing

Er. Depends on how you use the space. 5' for two people getting ready at once! And I hate stuff sliding off pedestal sinks--into the sink or onto the floor. Even if it's just a big pill bottle (ro the hand soap!), it gets annoying FAST.

>4. what entrance cubbies are you talking about? in any case i would definitely take a functional entry over a pretty entry anyday :)

Across from the garage entrance?

Part of the function of an entry is to welcome guests. Personally, I like my garage entry as near to the kitchen as possible.

>5. regarding closets, the updated plan actually has 16' of hanging space in the master. 8' along the back wall and then 4' on each side.

That's better, but keep in mind that the corners aren't really usable and are only for offseason stuff.

>in the kids bedrooms closets are offset by 1', thats so that we could put in built in shelving to house all their toys, books, trophies, etc.. so that their closets can hold their clothes :)

Uh. Yeeeeeeah.... You don't have kids, that's clear! Unless the shelving will be 2' deep, it's not going to hold anywhere close to all the toys--and they'll have even less room to play.

>don't forget this is an 1800 sqft house not 3800sqft.

Hey, I grew up in a 1200 or 1400 sqft house! Both the kid bedroom were MUCH bigger. My LITTLE one was 12x13--the big one was at least 12x14. I don't think I'm making crazy suggestions, here!

>and of course with 1800 sqft in the basement we could built a big closet to put off season stuff should we run out of room upstairs.

Good!

>6. and here you've hit on the big problem :) i guess it looks like a trailer but to me it's actually a very very common bungalow design here (from the front) but wider because of the two car garage. there are entire suburbs of brick bungalows in the suburbs. it's simple to build and therefore cheaper to build but yeah not terribly pretty.

Brick ranchers built within the past 20 years???

>normally i wouldn't really care but if we're going to make the effort to build our own house we should spice up the front a bit. thanks for the links but they're all cottage designs, i'll browse around though, thanks!

Check out the floorplans on the site, too. I chose Southerrn Living because they have lots of well-designed, gorgeous houses.

I like the second design better, but the gable's to shallow to have a reason. Making jut one gable for a broad porch would be bette or--a radical idea--flipping the house so the back and front are revered would be better.

athensmomof3, thanks for those links, definitely some great ideas there!

reyesuela, did you mean 6' of space between fridge and sink is not too much? if my kids can't fit their stuff on 1'x6' floor to ceiling shelves then they've got WAY too much stuff and a trip to the salvation army will be in order :)

thanks for the advice, it definitely helps to get a different perspective

Yes, not too much at all! :-)

My kids have 1'x6' in books alone, each. And I can guarantee they have far less stuff than the average kid!

well 6' by 1' floor to ceiling is about 8 shelves, kids books are rarely more than 1/2" thick, that would be 1152 books. we'll be fine :)

Just FYI -there are lots of toys that don't fit on bookshelves . . . just take a stroll through the toy store one day. I find shelves to be a waste of space anyway for books - they never get put back on there. A big basket works much better, with overflow on the shelves.

If you have a boy, they will likely want a train which they will play with for hours and years. No room for a train table (which is great as you can leave the train up and it is not over the floor). What about easels? Dollhouse? Baby stroller? Play kitchen? etc. Obviously you won't have all these things, but I bet you will have a few.

I don't think either one of us is trying to make you defensive. The simple fact is that we have children and you don't, and there is a world of difference between what you think will work with children and what actually will work.

An extra 60 square feet is a drop in the bucket as far as cost goes and can make the difference between a livable house and an unlivable one. You have a couple hundred square feet of hallway which could be eliminated (foyer opening onto den, smaller hallway connecting bedrooms) which would allow you to make the bedrooms 12 x 12 and a small playroom (could be 8 x 8).

My DS has 54 linear feet of books in his bedroom. 8*6=48. So that's 6 feet short. Of course, we homeschool and read LOTS of books here.

Where is the babydoll's high chair going to be? The babydoll crib and stroller? Dress up clothes--how do they fit on a 1' deep shelf? In tons of buckets? Large toy weapons will fall off. Will each stuffed animal sit out individually? What about separating out "treasures" (which are really just for display--like models and trophies) from stuff that's to be played with? What about the dollhouse? Model castle? Duplo table? Train table? Crafts--will they only be done in the kitchen? Baby's play mat? Mini rocker? Play kitchen? Play vacuum? There are SO many things that won't fit on shelves--and so many more that will be impractical! But with a larger bedroom, you can store many of them--and with a real dedicated playroom, much more.

Keep in mind that only the bottom 2' will be accessible to them at first, and after that, only the bottom 3' and then, for a LONG time after, only the bottom 4. All my kids' stuff is on shelves that are only 4' high--the 7-y-o can't reach anything higher.

I had the BRILLIANT idea when I just had my first kid that I'd keep all his toys (that would fit) in a 14" deep wardrobe that was 48" wide. It was a DISASTER. Sure, I could fit all the toys that were the right size in it, but my son could only reach a small portion of them and couldn't put hardly anything up on his own. It was a nightmare!

I'm not telling you these things to be mean. I'm saying them because I've BTDT. If you proceed as you wish right now, you'll sink a lot of effort and heartache into a house that will, within a few short years, become unlivable and will drive you to seek another option and that, with the current layout, be unattractive to potential buyers inside and out. (I have family friends who made the same mistakes in bedroom size and master bathroom. Their house was on the market for a year and a half in a hot market.)

Must be a lot of spoiled kids out there. I did have a huge bedroom growing up. But my bedroom in my first apartment was barely wider than the full sized bed. It was sufficient since TV and computer were elsewhere and most books I read come from a (gasp) library, and therefore, don't accumulate.

There are a lot of older ranch homes in rural northeastern MD that look similar to this. A lot of them are brick or brick-faced. They don't seem to be on the market any longer (maybe even less with this economy) than the houses that are twice as big. (They're less money, of course.)

I do think if you're having a finished basement, you should elevate the house some so the basement can receive natural light and fresh air. That will affect the appearance and lessen the trailer look. The second pic of the outside front isn't bad. Hard to tell depth from the pic, but I think I'd prefer a greater overhang over the front door for practical weather-related reasons. That will also lessen the trailer look.

I would take from the dining area to give to the kitchen. That's a two-level peninsula? I'd add 6 inches depth to the lower level. It will make a huge difference when doing prep work. I think I'd do that even if it was one-level. Your kitchen is about the same size as my working area. When everything is in the right spot-you don't need to be expansive. An island instead of a peninsula may be a little easier to work in since you could scoot it closer to the fridge and pantry but it won't keep traffic out as well. All depends on what's best for you.

If you don't plan to have an additional yard shed, the garage should be a few feet wider, especially if you do a lot of outdoor activities-skiing, biking, kayaking, etc. Even hung from walls and ceiling, that stuff takes up room.

>But my bedroom in my first apartment was barely wider than the full sized bed.

And you played Legos and dolls as a grown up? I think not.

If you had so few books, you weren't a real reader or your library was drop-dead amazing. Most people aren't lucky enough to have a great library. But we all know that books just spoil children, don't they?

Ranches aren't being built as rectangles-with-shallow-roof anymore for a reason. They sell for less than similarly-sized more attractive houses because most people find them ugly.

What you want for small kids and small toys is something like this:

http://www.target.com/BASICS-HOME-Tribeca-Bookcase-White/dp/B001TREQSA/ref=br_1_18?ie=UTF8&frombrowse=1&searchView=grid5&searchNodeID=13814371&sr=1-18&searchRank=salesrank&searchPage=1&searchSize=30&qid=

It has to be turned sideways for my 7-y-o, and his toys fit on two of these plus a 3' bookcase. (Some of that is my daughter's, too.) There's also a trunk for dress up. And my DS has the least toys of any kid in the neighborhood. He only gets toys at birthday and Christmas, with RARE exceptions, and our family is small and doesn't spend much (except my parents, who get stuff like a playset and a play kitchen). AND I try to make his birthday parties tiny, for the reason of limiting gifts. He hasn't had one with even 5 kids yet. Kids stuff adds up FAST, and much of it is amazingly bulky.

Your kids sound like they have a LOT of stuff, mine will probably have a fraction of the toys and clothes that yours have. We are not materialistic accumulators. If anything I'm a minimalist but I realize that most people aren't so it would be foolish to design a house around my needs. The fact is however that in Montreal, a 120-130 sqft room with 12 feet of storage would absolutely positively be a selling point and be above average. In fact I would be willing to bet that the average

Hmm reading that again I hope it didn't come across as judgemental because it wasn't meant to be, I think we just do things smaller up here in Canada :) You must have posted while I was writing reyesuela, make sure to keep those books for your grandkids! My mother gave our books away, I wish I could have them back. Well I listened to you guys and reworked things to shorten the hallway, plus I got the bedrooms on the east side of the house for sunrise. You're still going to find my bedrooms small and my master bath small but I'll think about that some more later on, it's easy to make the kids bedrooms bigger without really affecting anything else in this plan. Garage still opens into main entrance, will have the ponder that one some more as well but for now I like it. Beside the master bedroom door I put in a 40" doorway, it really opens things up. I like it, looks nice walking around in 3d, the hallway doesn't feel like a hallway. I'm also wondering how well it work if I wanted one of those two sided fireplaces so I could have a fireplace in the master bedroom? No dedicated first floor playroom, I like the idea but not sure where I would squeeze it in. Regarding toy space, whatever fits in their closet and shelves/bookcase fits, and everything else will just go in the basement playroom I guess.

Thanks!

{{gwi:1422595}}

Better!

2 comments: 19 feet is very very tight for a garage. Will you be able to fit 2 car comfortable, open doors to get in and out of cars? There should be more space between the the cars.

I'd cut hall space even more. I don't think you need access to the bedroom from the entry foyer. You can either move the stairs down to where the foyer is & use the additional space as office space. Maybe do a wall of built ins with bookcases and a desk. Or make the bedroom bigger.

I was thinking about that, if I put the stairs where the foyer hallway is I'd have that whole wall where the desk is for built in shelves and base cabinet storage as well as a desk area. More efficient use of space for sure but the island staircase/desk is kinda fun :) I read in a couple of places that standard width for two car garage was 20', is that incorrect?

If you own a Smart car and a Toyota Yaris, maybe a 19' wide garage would be enough. Your "average" 20' wide garage won't fit in modern sized automobiles though. You'll need a 20' x 7' door minimum to fit a smaller SUV and car comfortably. An 8' high door is better. That lets you have roof racks with luggage on the SUV and still get out the door. If you want two doors, 10' wide doors by minimum 8' high will work, but you'll need at least 2' in between the doors to look right and 2' on both sides as well. That lets the header be supported and the doors look like actual individuals without looking cramped and crowded. A single 20 door lets you make a smaller garage and with less expense.

Well we probably won't have a smart car and yaris and we'll definitely have thule or something on one of the vehicles. Is there any downside to having one big 20'x8' door vs two smaller ones? What would be an ideal garage width for two full size vehicles?

You also have to realize that some of the garage space will be taken up with steps from the house to the garage. That will take up a foot or two for the stairs, which will limit where you can park your car. Our garage is 22 feet wide and it has no extra room. Even with nothing in it we could fit a small old highlander and a toyota van. Of course, with 3 boys we are full of bikes, scooters, skateboards, big wheels etc. so we can't park in there anyway!