Check out the thread on vintage ranges. Lots of pics and comments on O'Keefe & Merritts and Chambers among others. Those seem like the perfect range for you, and which some patience I believe they can be found quite affordably.

Otherwise, browse through AJ Madison or a similar website for ''modern'' ranges with less electronics that are not ''pro-style''. There are some stainless steel ranges that come with painted fronts, which soften the commercial look a great deal. If you have the budget, the AGA 6-4 is beautiful, see the long AGA thread (in both Kitchen and Appliance forums).

You should be able to take a exterior panel removed from a range (oven door, apron, top cover, whatever) to an auto body shop and have it painted in whatever color you choose. Expain the temperature requirements and research the kind of paint that would be best.

I started a thread on ovens in the Appliance forum, several weeks ago, in which scores of helpful people explained all the features of modern ovens that I didn't understand - convection, true European convection, ceramic broilers, dual fuel, humidity control, etc. Link below.

Personally, if I didn't like the ''pro-style'' or commercial look ranges, I'd lean to a vintage range or a AGA 6-4.

Here is a link that might be useful: What Is Important In Choosing An Oven?

Other thread I mentioned

Here is a link that might be useful: Designing around a vintage range

I was going to suggest the AGA 6-4, but I see that Jonliu already has. You might also want to check out the ranges available from Lacanche, a French range that is also high quality, traditional in appearance, and fairly low-tech. If you get a two oven model, one can be a modern electric convection oven, and the other an ordinary gas oven. Each range is custom ordered, so you can get them configured however you prefer.

There are lots of Lacanche users here, and lots of Lacanche threads, if you do a search. Otherwise, check them out at the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lacanche Ranges

Wow, do you ever sound like you are describing my Lacanche Cluny.

Joe

How's this one look? By the way, I just pulled the color out of thin air because I couldn't find a pic of what your kitchen looks like on your blog. Is there a spot there where you have the look of things in a pic?

In any case, since you are in Manhattan, I am thinking the swing door so you have room to get down into the oven if need be without the door pushing you into a wall or cabinets, but it was just a guess.

The stove doesn't require matches to light anything, but when you get that 22K BTU burner roaring on a wok (yes, a wok, the burners are all in cast iron open bowls, You pull the grate off one and a real wok drops right in. Coolest thing I ever saw.) Anyway, you are in the Northeast, so you can probably drive up to Eurostoves on a spring weekend and try one out in person.

Ha! Now I'll bet that was more opinion than you were expecting! Best of luck, Suzanne and enjoy whatever you pick out!

I also think the yellow or green ones look great if you want to up the audacity.

Honestly? I think you want an Aga 6-4. It's a modern, non-stainless steel, high-powered, low-tech and vintage-looking range made of enameled cast iron. It's called a 6-4 because it has 6 sealed gas burners and 4 electric ovens (roasting, warming/simmer, broiler and convection). When my beloved Smoothtop range (circa 1923) died unexpectedly in the midst of the remodel, I decided against investing several thousand bucks in the repair and restoration of a range that already been going at it nearly 90 years at that point. Instead, I began an earnest search for a replacement range -- one that would be brand new and reliable but also have the looks that would fit the more period/classic style kitchen I wanted. Given that very specific criteria, I ended up choosing the Aga 6-4. I'm happy to say that I haven't regretted that choice a day since! Here is mine:

That's beautiful, but it's got this clock thingy. Why? Plus, no way those ovens are operating on 110V. She will need to hire an electrician and pay off two or three ward heelers to pull that one off! But like I said, it looks great! So do you quarter your turkeys for roasting or just go with the divan right out of the chute?

PS, just kidding. It is absolutely gorgeous, MarthaV. ;-)

As many here already know, I'm a huge proponent of open burners. In my opinion, there are many more "downsides" to sealed burners than "upsides". I'll keep this one brief but if you like more lengthy discussions, just search "open vs sealed" or simply "open burner" and you'll see lots and lots of posts about the subject. Here are some of the major flaws in sealed burner design:

1. Reduced air flow causes flames to fan out and often lots of heat is lost up the sides of the pan.
2. Sealed burners and SS surface pretty much go hand in hand. Burn on splatters are common on the SS surface near the burners.
3. Cleaning for small spills is arguably a bit easier on sealed but most open ranges have a drip tray that can be lined with foil for easy cleaning and can withstand a serious spill or boil over.
4. Sealed burner ranges are a lot more difficult to maintain since access is limited. Most open burner ranges have burners that just lift out and access underneath is much easier.
Trevor from Eurostove has some great videos you should check out. For the sealed vs open question click the link and click the right arrow to go to the second page of videos and find:
"Open Burner Vs Sealed Burner"

Here is a link that might be useful: Eurostove videos...

Mojavean , you make me laugh! On the clock thingy -- don't know why it's there. Could it be because there's a programmable feature for the ovens? (Shudder the thought!) Or maybe, because after you've dropped the bucks to buy the darn thing, it relieves you of the burden of having to spend even one more dime for a kitchen clock? Can't say -- since I've never used the programming function and, after nearly a year of depending on the clock for time, I finally broke down and bought a wall clock just to suit my design fancy. But I must say I do use and like the 6-4's digital clock for manual timing purposes -- especially since the wall clock I bought has only hands, no minutes. LOL! You are correct on the electrical requirement: 240V/60Hz/Single Phase 30 Amp is necessary. As for small oven size -- you are absolutely right on that as well. On the latter point, my advice to anyone who wants a typical American "super-size it for me" oven, the small, Euro-sized ovens of the 6-4 are probably not for you. I can only tell you from my own experience and needs, however, that the usual theoretical concerns that get raised about the 6-4's small oven sizes just haven't been an issue for me, in practice. (Of course, YMMV). True, the biggest roast I've given over to the 6-4 so far was a mere 14 lb turkey last Thanksgiving (which the 6-4's cast iron roasting oven delivered to culinary perfection, with no need for quartering or spatchcocking! :-) For those who need to cook more than 16 lbs of turkey, though, I suggest buying 2 birds and using both the roasting and convection ovens simultaneously. For baking, one would have to get used to using half size baking sheets or just fuhgeddaboutit.

Amcook , I gotta say that I think the great open vs sealed burner debate is so much poppycock! For 40+ years, I prepared meals on open gas burners. I never knew a thing about sealed burners until I brought the Aga 6-4 into my home. Yes, I notice the difference between the two burner designs but, frankly, I haven't noticed any difference in my cooking results. (If anything, my cooking has gotten better because the 6-4's burners are more high-powered and "variable" than those of the vintage range it replaced.) In the end, that's what really counts more to me. It is a nice aside, though, that cleaning in the burner area has become significantly easier.

Suzanne, if, in the year 2010, your NYC pre-war building won't allow you to do an electrical upgrade for this range, then Mojavean is absolutely right, case closed. Check on that, though! In this age of 220 appliances (e.g., AC, washer and dryer units), I would think your building would allow for an upgrade. At any rate, I responded to this thread simply because just about everything you said you loved about your Anderson -- as well as your stated hopes for your future range -- sounded exactly like an Aga 6-4 to me! BTW, this high-performing, vintage-looking cooking machine can be had in 13 colors of coated enamel, including cream and white. :-)

Martha, you crack me up! I was just kidding about the clock, I think every range we ever owned had a clock or a timer or something. The Bluestar, at least in that way, is the most minimalist range we ever owned. It just kind of surprised me to see one on an AGA. When I think of AGA, I think of Tiny Tim and Bob Cratchit and Dear Mother huddled around its utilitarian bulk warming their frozen fingers. The LED display sort of threw me off. But like I said, it is really beautiful and even more cool is the fact that it is in the home of someone who loves it so. You may not believe this, but I think our machines perform so much better when we like and appreciate them. I do not know why I think this, I just do.
Best,
Scott

marthavila,

As I said, my opinion is based on my experiences and nothing else. Everyone's cooking style is different and every range is built differently. Yes, there are plenty of sealed burner ranges out there that have an inner flame ring to provide more even heating and so forth but in the one's that I've used, they still don't compare to a simple open burner design. For my money, I chose open because I simply enjoy cooking on it more. I find it more flexible and fits well with how I cook.

Again, it's not necessarily a question of cooking results. I achieved the same results using my old sealed burner Viking as I do now (at least according to everyone I've cooked for) but I can stir fry twice as fast and have twice the fun doing it. Would it matter to someone who doesn't stir fry or saute? Probably a lot less. Add to that, in my case, the sealed burners were very poorly designed with a flame diameter of 10-12" on the largest burner (and no center ring) which means even with a 12" pot, much of the heat was lost up the sides.

For someone researching options who asks if there are any "downsides" to sealed burners, I think it is helpful to hear some widely discussed issues whether you personally believe them or not. The OP has to make her choice based on her needs with as much information as she can get.

Back to the original post... The question, "what's a simmer burner".. It is generally a smaller burner that can maintain a lower flame. Many here simply consider it a "small pot" burner since the flame size is usually reduced. I use my "simmer" burner to boil in small pots all the time. In some cases, simmer burners might actually have a electronic control that "pulse" the flame to maintain low heat.

Scott, what can I say? I'm a fan of yours! You got me from the start of the "races" and I've been following your AF career ever since! LOL! BTW,I totally agree with your premise that the more love we have for our machines the better they perform. This is true from egg beaters, to kitchen ranges to cars! I'm sure some part of this dynamic has something to do with the correlative level of care and proper maintenance we give to the things we really value.

Amcook, I did not mean to cause such a stir with my throwaway comment regarding the debate over open and sealed burners. IMHO, there are times when I find the heat and fury of our various cooking machine debates to be somewhat amusing and, based solely on my personal experience, I place the open vs sealed burners discussions in that category. At the same time, however, I truly do not mean to disrespect or dismiss the personal preferences and experience of anyone on this forum. By all means, I agree with you that Suzanne (and all posters) should get as wide a variety of opinions on any matter she submits to the forum for the discussion.

"The question, "what's a simmer burner".. It is generally a smaller burner that can maintain a lower flame."

But not on a DCS. Every burner on these ranges has low simmer capability, regardless of max BTU output. I've never used it for melting chocolate (can't wait for mine to melt, I'll eat it in any form!), but it's great as a "keep warm" burner, for example, to hold the mashed potatoes warm without scorching, while you make the gravy. Or, to cook rice, regardless of pot size.

No idea what you have to spend, but:

If you reluctantly go pro-style, you can consider an NXR. Same double-ring burners as a Wolf, from the same German manufacturer, for only 2K. All gas, low tech, minimal elect*ronics. You can get color on at least the oven door.

(BTW, "electrics" and "electroni*cs" are not the same thing. You can buy vintage ranges rehabbed so they don't need a pilot light; the electrical gizmo that lights a burner is very simple. Electronic*s means a microchip: a computer in your toaster.)

Ilve, Bertazzoni, and Fratelli Onofri are three old-style Italian ranges. They're beautiful, though each have their own issues, and look more Victorian than "pre-war." There are some advantages to these in small-size kitchens.

Heartland Appliances Legend ranges are supposed to be built like a tank. They echo very subtly the look of vintage American ranges, without being too cartoonish. Few on this forum seem to own them, however, so it's hard to find reviews.

Big Chill makes reasonably good looking vintage-style ranges, but I think they are basically offering just a very pricy shell on the same appliance you could get at Be*st Buy.

HTH.

I came here on the right night, for sure! I could have written Suzanne's post. I need an LP gas range. I don't want a NASA control panel. I want knobs that turn off and on. I wish the oven control was a knob with numbers and lines. If I have to pay thousands of dollars for one, I'll go induction. The open vs sealed burners discussion has made me rethink this option but the ranges I've been looking at all have sealed. The last gas range I had was open. And I'm wondering about the results of LP after I've had Natural Gas for 50 years. I wonder why everything has to be improved so much that those who don't want so many bells and whistles are forced to get them. Surely there are more than two of us.

suzanne, the pilot light... My DH and I had this conversation a while back when we had to replace our oven ignitor....

An option is a true commercial range with a pilot in the oven.... (are you allowed to do that?) If you are set on a pilot oven, I would look into it.

Most modern gas ovens use a ceramic glow plug type of ignitor. These will burn out after so many cycles of lighting. (There are only so many variations on these parts and they are similar in performance. There are no ignitors that last forever. I replaced my Viking ignitor with el cheapo after marker part and it works fine.) If you or the spouse is DIY sort, then you can replace these for about $50 to $100 (Viking part would have cost me $300, yikes!). If not, you gotta call the service guy, which is always a few hundred dollars please... This is what makes owning "all gas oven" expensive this day and age. (your gas furnace will have the similar repair record if you switch to efficient pilotless furnace.) There goes your savings from the efficiency that "compounded" for a few years. So for your total pocket book cost, there is absolutely no savings from the increased efficiency.

Some brands may have a better "performance" on this part than others but you will have to deal with it in decades of owning the oven eventually.

They simply don't make ovens with pilot light anymore, as were the vintage ranges. Even the "new" vintage looking gas ranges don't have a pilot light. Pilot lights are much simpler way of dealing with ignition. The electronic ignitor is the same part (all of them look almost identical) that turns on your gas furnace, gas BBQ etc. (Maybe this is a reason to stick to a true vintage range with pilot light... Hm)

all gas ranges are just about the simplest thing there is. You have an ignitor plus a flame adjustor, which is often a mechanical valve for letting more gas to the burner. Even if you don't have electricity, you can use a match to cook. All new gas cooktops come with electronic clicky starter. Even if that goes out, you can just use a match and start the coktop. My partner has an ancient Wolf gas cooktop that has burned out the electronic starter many years ago and he uses matches.... Cheaper than calling in the dude to fix it.

Prostyle ranges such as Viking and Bluestar come in many tens of colors. They also come in 24 inch, which may help your tiny kitchen remodel. (not sure about Wolf) I would NOT say that your only option is SS. Yes, there is that issue of "cost". For example, if you can find an all gas pro style range used, it should last you a long time....

Again, the infrared gas broiler uses a similar type of ignitor with a mesh of ceramic that heats up instead of a burner. There are no electronics per se to break down but there is that ignitor once again will go out....

Then, there is a fan for convection. Electrical motors are rather sturdy beasts and do not go out too often.... Even if the convection fan went, out you CAN still bake without it.

I used to have a gas range with the control behind the stove. That range needed to have the computer panel replaced after a few years, which we did ourselves... They are ugly and impractical. You already seem to know the limitations.

I suggest getting open burners(which I agree with Amcook but that is another story) and with something that has minimal electronics.... Viking, Wolf and Bluestar are options.
My "colored" Viking all gas range with open burners practically has NOTHING built in it. There simply is not much to break.... No self clean. No temp probe. No timer etc etc. I am keeping it at 10 year mark even though I am remodeling and spending many $ for the entire kitchen. There is nothing wrong with it. I can't see myself doing better at this point.... I think I would have replaced it if it was SS.

New century is induction. Gas is 20th century. IME choice of range depends as much on the vent hood and whether it's recirculating or can vent to exterior; whether range choice is appropriate to size/value of apartment. Simmer burners are irrelevant. Size of apartment and range choice is very relevant.

If you're living in 10023 and think you want to do a lot of baking, I suggest a reality check. But I'm sure this discussion will make a good post for your blog.

There are plenty of reasonably priced, great looking ranges and cooktops (with and without a lot of bells and whistles) that should suit your purposes just fine, and will be more energy efficient and responsive than the wonderful old range you recall from your childhood.

My grandmother did all her cooking and baking on this Atlantic stove until she moved out of her home in 1971. While I have great memories, I sure wouldn't want to try and use one now.

I don't think Julia Child had anything particularly fancy in her kitchen, and she did just fine. I don't think it's the stove that makes a great cook, but someone who loves to cook can probably make great food on just about any cooking appliance.

Julia Child used a Garland commercial range purchased in 1956 for $429. She used it until it was donated to the Smithsonian in 2001. She referred to it as the "big Garland" and always preferred its big oven to the electric wall oven in her kitchen. The range is now part of a permanent exhibit consisting of Julia Child's entire kitchen reconstructed in Washington.

Garland is still in business making commercial ranges. During the 1990s they ventured into a residential line of ranges sold under the Garland name. When they decided to concentrate on the commercial side of things, they sold off the rights to the Garland design for residential ranges to Prizer-Painter, a stoveworks in Reading, PA that had built Garland ranges under contract. That range is called Bluestar.

I went back and reread the original post and noticed our OP had asked how self-cleaning ovens work. They work by including a mechanized or computerized cycle that locks the oven door so that it cannot be opened. Once locked, the oven heats up to around 900 degrees for a couple hours. At this temperature, all of the organic compounds that make up typical oven spills, splatters, and vaporized soiling combust and turn to carbon ash residue that can simply be brushed or wiped out of the interior without a lot of scrubbing. That's the theory, at least. In practice I do not like the results well enough to mess with them.

Getting anything that hot in my house where I cannot control access to the interior is problematic in my book. There have been problems with damage to oven electronics associated with the high heat of self-clean cycles. Another thing you do not want to do is run a self-clean cycle with birds in the house. The smoke can gas them.

Overall, the self-cleaning models are hard to escape in mid to high line residential ranges and ovens. You have to go really cheap or commercial/pro line to escape the feature. Luckily, if one does not want to use self-clean, you don't have to, even if the oven has the feature. Just clean it as you normally would and leave the self-cleaning function unused.

My older O'Keefe and Merritt had a gas leak and I had to have the gas line to it shut off. I decided it was time for a new stove. I have looked everywhere in the Central Valley and have come to the conclusion that whomever is designing these UGLY things has no concept of style or function. I would not have one of these monstrosities in my home. The only ones that I like are Italian/European and look like works of art. They also start at about $7,000.00. After much searching, I have decided to have mine restored and placed on legs and painted a blue enamel. Do you know of anyone that offers this service in Fresno, California? I remain devoted to the 50's.