Help please - need a fresh pair of eyes on exterior

14 years ago

Hi. I have been lurking here for a couple of months while working on plans for a new build. We have a floorplan we like that is based off a cape cod/tidewater style house - symmetrical and square with a front porch and two equal sized sides that would sit slightly behind the main body of the house. We are working with a corner lot so are planning to put the garage toward the back of the house to sort of wrap the corner. This eliminates the gable usually created at the front of the house and that is throwing us off because we like that look.

I realize the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I am just interested in your gut reactions to these two houses. They are two options that would fit with our floorplan. Any and all comments welcome. I need some opinions please.

Gut reactions - which do you like and why? Thank you!

1. This is similar to what we could build although the sides would be equal size. Color would probably not be white and we might use some stone behind the porch for interest.

{{gwi:1407635}}

2. On this one there would be another part of the house off the side on the left that would be set back and similar in size to the gable on the right,

{{gwi:1407636}}

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Comments (34)

riverspots
14 years ago
I prefer the clean lines of the first house, especially with the porch. I think the multi-gabled looks fussy and waay too overdone lately. Also, if you live in the snowbelt-the gable in the second pic is a real snow catcher-why the early settlers eliminated it from their roof designs.
worthy
14 years ago
Good observation.

But as far as resale value, in my neck of the woods the first design would go over like the proverbial lead filled balloon.
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Need some fresh eyes and fresh ideas on these plans
Q
Comments (24)
The travel distances in the kitchen are excessive and inefficient. You have created too many work counters too far apart for one person. I find your comment intriguing. You are clear in conveying the gist of your opinion but you've completely left out any reference to WHY you hold this opinion. Why are the travel distances in an 8x12 open space excessive and inefficient? Is there a kitchen designer's study which suggesst kitchen designers limit the point to point travel to less than 12'? Is that what you're basing your opinion on? As for the inefficiency, here too I'm lost. Efficiency is a concept related to productivity, at least when it refers to human labor. Most of the labor in a kitchen involves either work at the sink, fridge or stove. This kitchen design minimizes travel between these fixtures. To the right of the stove is 5'6" of counter space before the sink interupts the work space. Within easy reach of the fridge are two counters upon which I can place items removed from the fridge. In terms of labor productivity I think that the kitchen works efficiently. What are you seeing that I'm missing? On the side of the kitchen opposite the work triangle is the dishwasher and plenty of uninteruptted counterspace. This counterspace has a grain mill at the end, it allows for baking to take place without intruding on the work triangle, it allows for me to place 60 canning jars without worrying about crowding, it allows me to place any gadgets that I decide I simply must have. Now perhaps you're concluding that the space is being inefficiently used because it's not being used as centrally or as frequently as the space within the work triangle and if so, yes, I'll cop to that, it's not, but if this is the line of your criticism, then it should be the case that every kitchen that incorporates space outside of a work triangle is using space inefficiently. Rather than me guessing WHY you reach your conclusion it would help me to have you TELL me WHY. What would help me even more is a suggestion from you on what I should do differently. That would be golden. A statement that the layout is inefficient and excessive doesn't help me much at all. A better configuration is a double loaded work area with support elements either side like a pantry or pastry station that you would not use as often as the central area and appliances. What is a "double loaded work area" and how would 1 person use this work area efficiently? Other than the bar sink I have located in the area outside of the triangle, what else, specifically would you suggest be included to make my time in the kitchen proceed more efficiently? If you think the basic design, a G-Kitchen, is beyond salvage, what would you suggest replace that layout? The kitchen is overly generous with space, the stair is an overly grand staircase but the entrance is into a cramped back hall with far too many doors. The elements of the house seem oddly out of scale with each other. In another thread I wrote that I couldn't offer an informed critique of someone else's plan until I knew what was guiding their choices. In this thread, in my original post, I wrote the following: The requirements were: - Big kitchen, disproportionately so compared to the remainder of the rooms. So I find it odd that, after you chimed in and agreed with me in the other thread that you needed to know more about the other person's goals before you could offer feedback, that here, knowing that I want a large kitchen, your feedback to me is "The kitchen is overly generous with space." The entrace isn't into a "cramped back hall", it's into a "cramped vestibule." Most vestibules are cramped, it's kind of the nature of the beast, isn't it? I agree that there are too many doors. I've since remedied that by removing two doors, so now the vestibule has an entry door, a closet door and two glass doors leading into the home. I moved the powder room to the back of the home and created more landing space around the bottom of the stairs and I removed the closet door on the right side of the house, across from the stairs and I use that volume of enclosed wall for a built-in accessable from the living room. See below: The space at the center of the staircase is to be used by a curving masonry bench which forms part of the fireplace and which will retain some of the heat from the fireplace. I've experienced such benches in my travels in Europe and I really enjoyed curling up on them and reading, or napping, after coming inside from a cold day of skiing. The gentle radiative heat seeping into my bones was luxurious. I admit that the inclusion of this space now is a design compromise but it's one that I'm happy to make for it gives me a space that I will use, it creates more radiative mass into which heat can be stored and it's out of the ordinary. It wasn't a "must have" but as a space filler it hits the mark on a number of fronts, far better than how I see people fill up space in their homes with chairs of tables that will never be used. The space at the foot of the stairs is available for a table, art, a build-in of some sort. The space midway up the stairs allows for a shelf for a plant next to a window. The staircase is overly grand. I've been struggling with how to incorporate it without wasting a lot of space. It's been quite a struggle. If I did away with the curve and went to a simple straight staircase I could slice a 6'x 15' section off of the plans and make an even smaller home, thereby making the kitchen disprortionately larger in a smaller home. Look, my garage is 24x24, space for my truck, motorcycle,sports car plus room to spare at the front. I'll have a metal/wood workshop in a separate barn. I have a large kitchen. These are all spaces that are useful to me. My dining room is small because I don't have large family gatherings and when I have guests it is only every a handful of people, a lady friend over for dinner, a buddy over for beer and to watch a game, one or two couples over for an evening - there are no grand dinner parties where I have 20 people crammed into my house. The living room is primarily for my own use but has space for 6 people sitting around conversing - I don't need space for more people and I don't need space, like a family of six would, for 6 people doing their own things in the LR - when I have six people in that room, I can assure you that one won't be watching TV, while another is reading, while another is doing needlepoint, and while two others are playing Monopoly. In the basement will be the utility and laundry rooms. I'll have an endless pool down there, a sauna or possibly a steamroom, I haven't decided yet, as well as a workout room of some size, and open space for whatever may strike my fancy in the future. Upstairs will have two master suites and an office if I can squeeze it in and if not, no matter, I can do office work anywhere in the house because I don't have kids or a spouse to distract me, so I don't need to cocoon myself away to find a quiet space to work. The elements of the house seem oddly out of scale with each other. There is some truth to this. Large kitchen, large garage (considering many 2 car garages are 20x20 or thereabouts), large staircase, fair sized mastersuite, small dining room, small living room. I'm not sure what I should be doing about this though. Should I scale back all the large rooms where I want space or should I scale up the the LR/DR where I don't want space and should I make my mastersuite larger or smaller and should I do away with the secondary mastersuite which might be used by one of my parents at some point in the future if they move in? Any suggestions? Criticism is useful, to a degree, but what really helps people in the design phase are actual, concrete, suggestions and alternatives. As I noted in the thread title, fresh eyes and fresh ideas would help me a lot.
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jeniferrlynne I was suggesting cedar shingles as a rustic but lower cost alternative to brick. Put the stone on the front gables and shingles elsewhere like the famous white shingle and stone house by David Adler shown above. Be cautious about partially covering brick with mortar or stucco or with rustic or high shadow joint treatments. The surface of brick must be maintained as a weathering surface to prevent excess water getting into the cavity and that means the joints must be hard tooled with a narrow concave steel trowel. Don't spend that much money on brick and end up with a high maintenance wall. You could even consider James Hardie's fiber-cement shingles or large thick red cedar shakes. I'm renovating a 1920's colonial with soft "used" brick and struck but not tooled joints. The wall bows out here and there from freeze thaw of excessive water in the masonry veneer. The outer face of many of the bricks has spawled off. I have recommended removing all of the brick from the back of the house and covering it with rigid insulation board and red cedar shingles. We'll have to continue to patch and repoint the front and sides. I try to avoid working on brick houses but this one is for a friend.
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chisue, Me, too! I like the Abandoned Plan -- first one -- *with* elevator, and presumably AP quarters off the first floor. So...why did you scrap it? First off, these are only 3 of the many iterations I've knocked out, so I hope you all see that I'm not wedded to a plan and trying to defend it as perfect. I'm very willing to scrap and start again. My problem is that they're all variations on a similar theme. Anyways, to your question, I scrapped the plan because 1.) That huge basketball court of open space by the fireplace, behind the LR, just gnawed at me, I couldn't think of how to use it or fill it, and 2.) as I analyzed how I live I realized that I'd never be sitting directly by the window playing a board game or what have you - that "keeping room" solution was more of an idealization of how I'd use the space than a reflection of how I live now and how I would live in such a house. Once again that volume of space between the kitchen and the living room was driving me bonkers. I already had the bench seat by the window covered in the LR. Here is a render of the bay window. Another issue that bothered me with that 1st plan is the bathroom being an island room. If it was a powder room it didn't take up enough room, by putting in a shower my office could do double duty as a guest room. Then I realized that if I have a full bath and bedroom down on the first floor, why do I need to put another fully dedicated bedroom for my parents up on the 2nd and install a 3 floor elevator system, Now all I needed to do was connect the bath and bedroom and away we go. Oaktown, The thing is, much of the in-law suite, the stairs, and every upstairs room but the master BR currently are "buried." The inlaw suite has windows on two walls, it's just the closet and bath which are buried. As for the upstairs, the plan isn't completed, but every room up there has windows except for the "kids bath" and the laundry room and I'm completely fine with using a bathroom without windows or doing laundry in a room without windows in that I'm hardly spending any time in those two rooms. Thank you so much for your ideas on a new layout, that's exactly what I need to break my ideas out of the rut, some fresh eyes and ideas looking at my problem. I'm really going to play around with what you've laid out. Don't take this short paragraph to be indicative of my appreciation, you've done me a great favor. I dpn't know if it will work but it's definitely a reimagining. cpartist, The dining room doesn't need to be facing the best views because hopefully when you're using the dining room, you're interacting with your table mates. I agree that the DR doesn't need to face the best views, but some room does. That fireplace will be aesthetically interesting, like a massive sculpture and across from it will be a wall of windows in the center of the house, so just having a hallway there rubs me the wrong way. With a dining room people are sitting down, spending time there but with a hallway all I'd be doing is walking past a central focal point, which is what led me to revert the DR back to that location so that at least we'd be sitting in a room bounded by a massive sculpture and impressive views. All of your comments regarding the 1st plan are appreciated because I suspect that they represent the issue of resale value and how future buyers, with tastes and interests different from mine, will see the house. I need to find a way to square the circle here.
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just coming on to say that the wood flooring you have is so beautiful!!! I am not a pro like the others, but could you consider updating the paint color, changing the ceiling fans to chandeliers (or whatever style suits you), putting tall vases by the fireplace, moving the mirror so that it’s over the fireplace mantle, swapping out the white drapery for something with patterns / colors, moving the dining table so that it’s next to the window and then, if you want multiple seating areas, creating one opposite the window / dining area by putting the couch against the opposite wall and having the chairs face the couch? the seating furniture seems like it needs to be closer together if you want to facilitate conversation.
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polkadots
Original Author
14 years ago
Thank you both. What would you think if instead of the large middle gable on the second picture we made that another dormer. It would maybe be a mix of both then??

I hope to hear from more of you - I have thought about this too long and it's hard to be objective now!
macv
14 years ago
In the second photo, the segmental arches, over sized classical pediments, Stick Style detailing and the seemingly random placement of gables and different materials give the appearance that the designer took a pair of scissors and ruined a copy of a Field Guide to American Houses.

My advice: pick a major architectural idea and let the rest of the design elements act in sympathetic support of that idea. A good example would be the first photo.
cakelady541
14 years ago
I like the first photo. It is more classic and authentic. The second photo looks like it's trying too hard.
arch123
14 years ago
second photo is definitely flavor of the month - which IMO will look dated in time.
feedingfrenzy
14 years ago
Gut reaction? Hands doown the first one. It's exactly what a Cape Cod is supposed to be. The other looks like something out of Thomas Kincaid, and that's not intended as a compliment.
mdfacc
14 years ago
The reaction to the second house might be better if the pic was en face. It would look more symmetrical from that orientation. I like the stone and double-pillars of the second photo, though the design does have gable overload.

The second house is at least interesting. The first design is classical, but it's also unimaginative, dull, and identical to millions of other houses, past and present. It's a fine dwelling, but it isn't visually appealing, in my view.
booboo60
14 years ago
polkadots,

I too, like the first one only because Dh and I went through the same kind of dilemma. We had chosen a house plan with dormers in front but we thought the exterior looked kind of dull and uninteresting but we loved the floor plan and the overall 'dormer' type house. We added the rock in the front and it made a world of difference!! And, on the inside we 'boxed in' the dormers so they are like skylights. This isn't the best shot but you get the idea.....

Here is a link that might be useful: house
booboo60
14 years ago
I don't know if anyone else can view my photo but I can't so trying again

=http://ourbuild2008.myphotoalbum.com/inc/share/photoxml.php%3Fset_a3Dphoto&timeout=60&license=IUBZ89235ZM6YFSLRTO9DN6IKN49JK' WMODE='transparent' WIDTH='320' HEIGHT='240'>

Here is a link that might be useful: house
Kathy Beebe
14 years ago
I prefer the structure of the first home but I don't like the details that much. I think the second home is just too much but that's my opinion. Below is the inspiration for my home's facade. It's amazing and scary how small details can change the look of a home so much.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tidewater facade
pps7
14 years ago
I also prefer the first one. There's a similar house in my neighborhood and it's one of my favorites. They've added brick to any part of the foundation that's exposed. It's adds a nice touch.
polkadots
Original Author
14 years ago
I want to thank each of you for taking the time to comment - I really appreciate it! You seem to be echoing my thoughts exactly. The first house is classic. I am always attracted to that style when I run across one. But we are nervous about it being boring because the garage will be in back; therefore, it will not have the gable in front like twotogo's house (which looks great, thanks for posting the picture!!). Like bb19 said, I think the devil is in the details on this one...ideas are stone on porch, some lap siding and possibly some board and batten (or shingles/shakes - not all three), definitely either a stone or brick apron around the entire house. Our plan has slightly larger dormers and we are still contemplating the type of columns. I love your inspiration bb19!

The second home is definitely current but I fear it is just too much like many of your have said. My DH liked it because it had some "interest". I did wonder if modifying it to have three regular dormers instead of that big gable would look good?

Thanks again to everyone and any additional comments are certainly welcome.
mitri89
14 years ago
The first one has always been one of my favorite house types. It's so classic. We had initially picked out a house plan very similar to it but decided to change due to how wide it was. A different house with a better interior plan worked better for our lot, so we switched. Here's ours that's still under construction and hasn't been painted yet...
homeagain
14 years ago
I like the classic lines of the first and the interest of the different materials on the second. I do not care for the large entry gable. Someone with photoshop could probably incorporate your ideal of a regular dormer in the middle. I tried with paint and this was the best I could do. I think the extra gable on the right wing is unnecessary and makes the house to fussy so I did what I could to remove it.
marthaelena
14 years ago
When it is about personal preference, I prefer the clean look - like your first picture.
In this specific case, I am thinking that the second one is very nice IF you remove that awful entry gable. What I do not like about it, is that standing in the porch, you are able to see that chopped roof at each side and that bothers me, in addition, it is like too high.
I like that lower wrap around roof of the porch, the stone and the double columns. I'd simplify and adjust the proportion of the dormers . I would not place gables at each end. To summarize it, I kind of like what homeagain did. I'd go with the modified second one.
Kathy Beebe
14 years ago
Here's a weak attempt at the 3 dormers.
polkadots
Original Author
14 years ago
Wow - thanks everyone!

Mitri, your house is looking great - love the wrap around porch!

homeagain, thanks so much for trying to create that picture. It gives me a good idea. I originally thought I liked the gables on the sides, but now it might be better without, as you suggest. Thanks for your thoughts.

marthelena, am I better off adding the interesting elements to the first house style, or taking things away from the second? To me it is about the roof - I like not having quite so much of the steep roof in the second design, but not sure if the three dormers work or not?

bb19, thanks you so much for your efforts. That picture is really helpful, I appreciate you doing it. Also, I have looked more at the link you shared above and really love both the inside and outside of that house!

Do you guys like the second house with the three dormers, as mocked up above?
booboo60
14 years ago
It is much better with the 3 dormers and then if you just had the single posts (I'm sure the double posts are not supposed to be there, right?). Looks more balanced to me!
mdfacc
14 years ago
bb19's pic is beautiful. The simple design is classic and stunning with the right materials and detail work. It's the transoms, the pillars, and the stone that makes it. Otherwise, the design is lifeless.
dixiedoodle
14 years ago
I'm sorry, but I think that the elevations created showing the 2nd house with 3 dormers look absolutely ridiculous. I prefer the 1st house but "dressed up." The 2nd house wouldn't be bad, but it absolutely needs to lose that 2 story front entrance.
marthaelena
14 years ago
Polkadots,
You will need to ask you designer/architect to create the elevation, some persons can not imagine or figure how something will look if an element is added or removed, that's why you need to get sketches with the right proportions and then decide. Elevation decisions should not be taken lightly.
We did not see your second floor plan but if you need 3 dormers, the second option with that porch would not work. If you only need 2 dormers the first option will not look the same. Say you have a wall in the middle of the second floor: how are you going to place a window/dormer?
I usually do not look at an elevation (or many other issues) as an isolated matter, that is why most of the times I recuest forum members to post the floor plans (or vice versa).
twolabs
14 years ago
I think whatever you choose will be great, because obviously everyone has an opinion. In my personal opinion, I like the 2nd house..unchanged. I guess because the first house seems SO common around here. You can spin around, and throw a rock in a random direction and hit a house that looks almost exactly like that, or something similar. The 2nd house...may be a little bit.."whoa", but still I agree with your DH in that its interesting..whereas the first house, albeit "classic" and "clean", is also a dime a dozen.

However, go with what you feel...listen to your gut instincts. We recently made a 180 degree turn on our builder (he was working us up a design himself)...and we just kept "trying" to like it and go along with it until finally, we said...this is ridiculous, we need to love our house. So we chose a completely different design and thats what we're going with...thankfully we listened to our gut!
gigib_08
14 years ago
I'm going to be the odd one here. I think the first house is very boring & common. And even though the 1st house has dormers, it still is too much roof for me. But I'm also one that loves gable roofs. My front entry is a 2 story gable & I love it!
polkadots
Original Author
14 years ago
Thank you so much to all of you for your comments. They have been very helpful and I really appreciate all of your time. I don't know how many people will still read this thread, but I am posting a couple of additional pictures showing a couple of Cape style houses with a little more punch to them. I am very interested in any thoughts you may have.

Option A. This is one we really like. Not really the blue, but the contrast with the stone, the trim, etc. We would have three smaller dormers (those are too big) and I think this would be about the height of the roof of ours. The garage would be in back so we would not have the gable on the left that's why I show it with the gable and then closer in without to give the idea of what it would look like for us.
{{gwi:1407640}}
{{gwi:1407641}}

Option B: We like this as well - nice color scheme. We might choose to put stone on the porch instead and we would have equal sides like I showed in my original white house above. I believe this roof is steeper/taller than what ours would be.
{{gwi:1407642}}

Just curious if you like these and think they add enough pizazz to the classic Cape style? FWIW, there are not a ton of this style of house here - usually one or two in any given custom neighborhood, so they are not overdone.
mdfacc
14 years ago
I like them both. Either looks much better than the original example. I prefer the first because of the stone face. However, the double entry door and low stone walls around the steps add a lot to the second.
macv
14 years ago
Historically a Cape Cod house would not have had dormers or a front porch although dormers might have been added to the larger versions later. You were correct in calling the house style you like as being from the Tidewater South tradition.
gwbr54
14 years ago
Of your second two photos: I like the first house, with smaller dormers. I don't understand the roof on the second house -- it looks like the roof peak could be 6-ft lower.
gigib_08
14 years ago
Love the new option A!
marthaelena
14 years ago
I thought you could take a look at this pic. It has the two wings that you mentioned your home will have.
It's an almost million dollar home in GA
polkadots
Original Author
14 years ago
marthaelena, thank you very much for thinking of me and posting that picture. It does have similar proportions to what I am looking at doing. It is amazing how the materials used impact the look so much. Thanks again.

mdfacc, macv, gwbr54, betteratthelake, thanks so much for taking the time to comment. The details and materials will make the difference for us, I think.
crazyhouse6
14 years ago
I too love option A. Beautiful home.
kate102
14 years ago
Polkadots, I vote for picture 1 and Option B of your 3/1 post. Do you happen to have the floor plan of either? We're thinking of building something similar. Love that classic look with a warm and inviting porch.
polkadots
Original Author
14 years ago
crazyhouse, thanks for your thoughts.

kate, I don't have the floorplans for those particular houses. You might want to look at the webistes for Mitch Ginn and John Tee as they have some nice looking plans that are along those lines. Good luck!

Help please - need a fresh pair of eyes on exterior

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