I have a KA "S" model and I'm very pleased with it after 5 years. The "U" model has been out for a while now.

I tend to avoid putting plastic in the bottom rack as a precaution since I use heated dry - if you avoid that option you might be ok.

My model doesn't have a half load option.

My dishes come out clean and dry but as I said I use the heated dry option as well as rinse aid.

You might try calling KA customer service with your questions/concerns to see what they say.

You can read the users' manual online at the KA website. It says not to put in disposable plastics at all, and by implication that would be even on the top shelf. But I might have misunderstood.

I don't know how the controls would be visible unless you notched out the counter to show them. (Though that's not a bad idea...) There are a couple DW's that take cabinet panels but have the control panel on the front. One is a GE Profile. I think one may be a Kitchen Aid. Sorry, I don't know models.

Weissman is right about calling regarding the plastics in the bottom. That's only possible with the heated dry off, but then you're not necessarily getting perfectly dry plastics. Another concern would be whether the plastics get turned over by the force of water.

People here are in general very pleased with the Miele, and put plastics in the bottom rack. You do generally have to use rinse aid for the plastics to dry well, and also allow it time to dry completely (i.e., hours).

I'm pretty easy on dishwashers so I never guessed the choice would be my biggest research sink and hardest decision. I'm leaning toward GE Monogram, mostly for very different uses than yours, though the KA is still in the running.

fatlady, we have the Kitchenaid KUDT which is identical to the U but has a less sound insulation. My machine is very quiet; so much so you have to listen for it. The machine washes very dirty dishes and dries them very thorougly. We generally use Cascade or Electrasol detergents and Jet-dry rinse aid.

Yes, you can put plastic in the lower rack without fear of melting or warping even with the drying heat on. The drying heat is quite low. That said, I'm talking about Rubbermaid or Tupperware type plasticware. I have loaded the large disposable plastic food storage lids in the lower rack without any problem either.

The upper level cutlery racks are useful for all sorts of small plastic things. If you have small children, you'll find that rack useful for sippy cup lids, and other small plastic things that would clutter up the other racks.

This machine does not have the one rack only wash option. But, if you download the instruction books from the machines that do, you'll find that the machines that have that cycle use as much water and time as a full Normal cycle anyway. Previously, I had a Bosch that had that option and it was useful. However, since there is little to-no difference in energy & water use, we felt it was basically non-issue.

The Kitchenaids are huge and can hold an awful lot. Including large pots, pans, utensils. All Kitchenaids seem to be energy star rated and use 5-6 gallons of water per cycle. Compared to the Bosch this machine holds so much more, that that feature in and of itself makes this machine even more efficient.

My machine has the controls along the top of the door and they are hidden by the countertop overhang when the door is fully closed. The selections are not hard to read, but they are invisible when door is shut. The machine remembers the last cycle used, so to start a new cycle all you have to do is depress the start button. Its is very easy. There is a child lock as well.

Charly

Thank you so much for the feedback. It was reassuring to hear your experiences, and I appreciate your writing. Based on what you wrote, I think we will go ahead with the kitchenaid. Although Miele seems to be the favorite on this website, the Kitchenaid dishwasher owners really liked their dishwashers too!

I spoke with customer service, and didn't feel they were much help either. They repeated that the manual says you can wash any plastic labeled dishwasher safe, but doesn't mention whether it can go on the bottom rack or not. The representative said she would not put any plastic in the dishwasher! (great! that is 3/4 of my dishes!)

The salesperson at the appliance store said that no dishwasher can get plastics dry because the plastic can not absorb the heat. Although she wasn't as familiar with KA, versus Bosch/Miele, she said the KA had the heating coil on the bottom that can be turned off. However, it is still hot for the wash cycle, and she advised against plastics on the bottom rack in the KA, but said it was ok for the European models.

charlyinfl- Just a couple of clarifying questions--have you tried putting clear plastic glasses on the bottom without getting etch marks?

Do you have a problem with the plastic flying around during the wash cycle?

Does the upper cutlery rack clean the cuttlery well even if you just toss it in without lining it up in the slots?

The middle rack seemed to have odd shaped curves for the glassware--do you have any trouble fitting the glasses in there?

Are the racks pretty sturdy but easy to manipulate? It didn't seem as hefty as the Miele. Any problem with it bending out of shape or adjusting the racks? thanks!

fatlady,

I hope this answers your questions:

Plastics flying around?? Only very lightweight lids, however, there are flexible clips on the upper rack that are there to secure them. Sometimes my kids just toss them in. Don't worry about plastics in the lower rack with the dry cycle on. I think Kitchenaid is just covering their behinds about advising not to put plastics there. The silverware baskets are plastic and they are positioned just above the element on the right side and obviously they don't melt or warp. Plus there is a lot of area in and around the lower rack that is not near the element. I've yet to have anything warp or distort. We always use heated dry. I can't stand when things are wet, to me the machine is only doing half the job if they require a lot of towel drying. Thankfully, the Kitchenaid dries very well.

Upper cutlery rack?? Things wash and dry fine. We are not too finnicky about loading things picture perfect, but it does help to increase the capacity of the trays if they are organized somewhat.

I find the middle rack---the glasses, soup bowls, dessert plate rack very well formatted. It seems to hold my dishes so they don't jostle and bump around when moving the racks or during the wash cycles. It adjusts up and down by depressing a button and lifting or lowering. Very easy to do. Even if the rack is loaded

The racks move very smoothly and seem to be very heavyweight. I've not seen any issues with rack spokes bending or breaking. There are several moveable sections that can be manipulated for various loads.

Tall unbreakable plastic pilsner glasses??? well funny you should ask, we have a bunch of these for our patio, that only fit in the lower rack. Usually, they are just fitted into what ever open space there is on the bottom, without regard to their placement in or around the heating element. They wash fine, but they are not crystal clear as they were when they were new. I attribute that to the rough treatment they've received, not necessarily the dishwasher. I'm just glad not to have broken glass on the patio or in the pool.

Charly

hmm...who said anything about pilsner glasses?!! pool! Sounds like I need to come to your place to check your dishwasher out in person!

Charly--thanks so much for answering all my questions. I feel a lot more confident we made the right choice.

I have a KA "S" DW that's about a year old (I think it's quite similar to the model you're asking about) so I thought I'd jump in. We use lots of Gladware and Ziploc cheapo plastic containers to store leftovers; I put it all in the DW on the Heavy Duty cycle with heated drying. I usually lay the lids flat on top of the cutlery tray and generally put smaller containers in the top rack and larger ones in the bottom DW rack. I've never had anything melt or become misshapen. I also put my Tupperware/Rubbermaid lids/containers in the DW's lower rack on heated dry with no problems. If you have used plastic to store tomato-based foods, you may need to add some of the Cascade Plastic Booster gel to the DW cycle to remove any orange staining.

Another thing I have noticed is that if I want the plastics fairly dry when they come out of the DW, I have to leave the DW closed for 30 minutes or so after a cycle is completed. If I try to unload immediately after the cycle light goes off, the plastics will be quite wet and require drying although china, pottery, glass, stainless, etc. is completely dry.

Fatlady, thanks for asking, and Charly thanks so very much for the detailed answers!! When I started I assumed I'd be getting a KA, but then became concerned because of things I'd seen and heard. I am so reassured!!!

Oh, Zoenipp, thanks for even more reassurance!! When I read in the manual that one couldn't do disposable plastics I was scared off. Between you and Charly I have my confidence back.

As luck would have it, we installed this same machine on Friday of last week. One big word of caution. It will fit in the standard size cabinet opening (30 year old house) but *just barely*, as in the piece 1/16" thick black plastic doohickey thats supposed to provide the aesthetic blend between machine and counter opening wouldn't fit. What should have been a 30 min job took about 2 hours, it was that tight. This was the 3rd dishwasher in the same hole. So you *might* want to measure pretty carefully before ordering.

We've run it now 3 times. Its quiet, we don't use the electric heat dry, but everything is perfectly dry anyway. The cycle takes at least 90 minutes, which is longer than we've been used to. They really make the case to use that rinse stuff, so we did.

All loads we've run have come out absolutely spotless.

I am wondering if you guys used it to clean any REALLY dirty baked on stuff, like oatmeal or avocado. Do you need to rinse the dishes well before they go in, or can we just scrape and load. I am so tired of pre-washing my dishes before I load them to be washed! Have you tried the pot scrubber function yet?

I'm a scraper, not a rinser, and this DW does a great job. From what I understand, you should never rinse your dishes totally clean before loading as this can cause etching of glassware. Sometimes I will soak pans with baked/burned on food before putting them in the DW though. I use the Pot Scrubber cycle quite a bit. The Cascade 2-in-1 tabs work very well for me with Jet-Dry in the rinse-aid dispenser.

Zoenipp - you made my day - we have a KA KUDSO3CTSS sitting in our garage. I had a 20 year old Whirlpool and always had to pre-wash (well, rinse, anyway). I'm really excited to hear what a good job it does without all of that - and will be happy to use tabs since the smell of the Cascade liquid makes me sick.

Thanks!

I also just ordered a new KA! To replace the crappy LG we bought new and it sucks (the all steam one).

We got the T series. I called KA and got lots of information from them.

Here are the series:

S - 4 cycle options
T - same design as the S, but a quick clean up cycle option, both hold 14 place settings
U - holds 12 place settings, bottom rack is very flexible in that the tines completely pull out, 2DBs quieter than S or T
M - the only one that has a steam option.

We got the T. 03 appears to be the 2008 line.

Also, the latter part of the model number tells you about what panel you are geting. CT is fully visible, ST means the status lights are visible, but the control panel is hidden, FT is fully hidden controls.

I hope I enjoy this one!!!

Christine, what great information! Thanks!

It's been a long time since I studied anything about hearing but is a two decibel difference even perceptible?

No, it is not. I guess human perception starts to notice at 3-4 db. Thanks for the kudos! I really did my research. The new d/w will be installed Saturday (today) at about noon. We're going on holiday after, but I will post about the new one I guess after we do some loads (maybe in 2 weeks or so). I sincerely pray and hope that it has to be better than this crappy LG.

I missed a few things. The T and U are the only ones that have the 3rd rack. The U is only available at retailers who will agree to show the entire U line (stoves, etc). KA has lead me to believe the only difference between the T and U is that the U has a totally removeable bottom rack. I have never seen a U or a M.

Like I said, the LG sucks and I will post about the T as soon as I have run a few loads.

Interestingly enough, DH & I both noticed the LG was getting louder by the day!

No, it is not. I guess human perception starts to notice at 3-4 db. Thanks for the kudos! I really did my research. The new d/w was in installed this morning. We're going on vacation tomorrow, but I will post about the new one after we do some loads (maybe in 2 weeks or so). I sincerely pray and hope that it has to be better than this crappy LG.

I missed a few things. The T and U are the only ones that have the 3rd rack. The U is only available at retailers who will agree to show the entire U line (stoves, etc). KA has lead me to believe the only difference between the T and U is that the U has a totally removeable bottom rack. I have never seen a U or a M.

Like I said, the LG sucks and I will post about the T as soon as I have run a few loads.

Interestingly enough, DH & I both noticed the LG was getting louder by the day! The service technician said he was going to send it to service versus back to the store since I could have gotten one with a bad motor. It had a new or possibly burning smell after over a dozen loads, plus the dishes weren't clean. He said they are taking back like 5 of these every week...and that people love the KAs.

Bah! I know I wrote that other post up last night, I didn't think I had posted it since my browser was on the preview page. Then I edited it to be appropriate to after the d/w being delivered. Sorry - it makes me look kind of crazy, LOL! I swear I am not... : )