It's hard to be completely sure from a picture, especially without a close up of the fringe area and the edges, but I don't think it's a handmade Oriental rug. I believe it's one of the very fine machine mades like perhaps a Karastan.
They were very well made, lasting nearly as long as a real Oriental....but the colors and patterns differed slightly from a real Oriental.
The pattern and colors in yoiur rug are very different from the sarouks I have....but the fact that there is a variation in the design makes me not completely sure it's machine made.
There are many different kinds of Orientals each having a fairly distinctive pattern....
Yours does not look like a Sarouk to me.
Is there a tag on the back? a canvas label stapeled to a corner? Every Oriental rug I have seen has one, telling of the origine and size....but that's not to say it couldn't have been removed.
I am about 90% sure it's not a Sarouk.....and about 75% sure it's a machine made Oriental.
Linda C

I don't think there is a label anymore. I'll flip the corners and look tonight. There is no fringe any more, but long ago. Once, about 25 years ago, I took a picture of it to a large (not fancy) Oriental rug shop, and the man said "It's a sarouk." and I was surprised and even said, "are you sure?" and he was rather perturbed and said again, "It is a sarouk." A few years prior to that (and prior to having the rug in my home) I had been in a fine Oriental Rug shop and my eye kept being drawn to a rug on the wall. I kept wondering why it looked familiar---ah, yes, the cypress trees! It was just like my grandmother's rug. The owner of the shop kept asking if I'd be interested in selling it. I had to explain that eventually the rug would be mine because my grandmother had always said so, but that I did not own it at that time.
One thing that is noteworthy is that the cypress trees are not exactly identical. A couple are a little "fatter" than the others, but symmetrically so. The second one in the row is fatter than the two on either side of it, but the one across the rug is not. The size of the rug is about 9'10" x 13'6". I am so appreciative of your information! I have searched the internet to find something like it. A few Mashads looked similar. Like I said it was in my grandmother's house from as long as I can remember. I think she bought it at an auction in Sea Gate, NY (by Coney Island) in the late 30's or early 40's?
Boby

It's the variation in the pattern that cast doubts that it was not machine made.....
But the colors ( unless it's your camera or my monitor!) are not quite typical.....
Can you post or send, a close up of the "fringe" end and the side edges?
Also how many knots to the inch? That will give you a little idea of quality.
A real hand made rug will have a fringe that is part of the warp threads.....when it wears away, so does the rug....you start loosing border. A machine made rug has a more sturdy edge and the fringe is sewn on....when the fringe wears away, the rug is still good.
Also you are setimating the rug to be about 100 years old....and usually rugs of that age were vegetable dyed and faded in an uneven way ( called abrash)....and yours doesn't look faded to me.
Whatever it is it's lovely!!
Linda C

Linda, It is definitely not sewn on the ends. I had one of those rugs once too, I I know what your are describing. That rug was much lighter in weight and flatter. It had more of a "sheen" too. On this rug, the border is close to starting to wear away, so I have it turned so those ends are against the wall and not walked on now. I am at work now, so can't count threads per inch. I think I remember sort of baby blue threads in the backing. Don't know what color it is showing up on your monitor, but in real life the field is sort of a raspberry color. The widest border is deep blue. The "things" in the corners and inside the borders are beige/tan. Trees are cream and dark green. The border guards are a red that is more "orangy" than crimson. Gee I sound like Mrs. Blanding describing the colors for her dream house.....I just know that it is a wild assortment of colors, and pretty darn hard to decorate around! It's the trees that keep me so curious....Thanks for your help in this mystery.
Boby

Linda, yes either post pics or send them to me. I sent you some detail shots of the back and edges. If they are too big to download, let me know and I'll send them one at a time.
Boby

I haven't forgotten....it's just that life got in the way...
Soon!! Linda C

Linda C: I know you haven't forgotten! How are you and the family doing? Where will your grandson go to school now? So glad he got out safely.
Boby

Thanks....my grandson is going to Creighton...within less than 2 weeks he enrolled at 2 schools and fled Katrina!....Had to buy all new stuff....luckily his lap top came with him....but clothers camera, stereo, micro etc stayed in NOLA.
Now my camera is acting up!!!
I need a new one....but some day!
I have a couple of books on rugs....I will look....if I haven't lent them and not gotten them back!
Linda

I haven't forgotten.....just not gotten around to it yet....
Don't give up!
Linda C

I do think it's a sarouk and from the teens or 1920s. I've been looking at a great many antique rugs lately and it's pretty obvious to me so I'm in agreement with the guy at the rug place. The colors are pretty typical and I'd also bet it's handmade because the variations in thickness of the cypresses and the design.

Hope you'll get those ravely ends repaired by someone very good before it gets damaged and turn the rug so it wears evenly.

If it was in better condition a size like that would be worth a lot of money. Given that it's a bit beaten up it's probably worth less but sarouks are still quite sought after.

It's a beautiful carpet. I love those. You are very lucky to have it.

Thanks for the info fatlester. That would make sense. It is worn in areas. It has been in constant living room use all these years. And its size makes it hard to turn. Seems no matter how I turn it the worn areas appear right where traffic will be. I now have it turned so the ragged ends are against the wall and not exposed or walked on. Guess I will have to contact a local Oriental Rug shop about repairs. What I don't know though is what it might be worth in this worn condition? I see Sarouks going for a few hundred dollars on ebay. And then you see another one that goes for thousands, even when shabby. Certainly is hard to put a value on. Why oh why didn't I realize who George O Bannon was when he lived a few houses down the street from me years ago.....I found out what an Oriental rug expert he is AFTER they moved away!
Boby

Is it worth having repaired? Not just the fringe, but reweaving the spots where it is worn. Just wondering.
B

If the rug was not so worn it would likely be worth thousands of dollars. Repairing is tricky. You do it because you love the rug and want to preserve it as best you can. Unforunately, restoration and repiling (replacing wool by hand with matching strands) is expensive and doesn't increase the value. It just is then a repaired rug in better condition. But sometimes it must be done. If it is very artifully repaired it can be sold with notations to that effect and while it might be worth a bit less it still is a valuable piece given the age, origin and style.

If you feel you want to sell it then I would probably have the ends repaired where it looks raggedy and leave the pile alone. But it must be done by someone expert.

My suggestion would be to email or post to someone Trying2Grow. You'll find her on several rug threads, especially on the Home Decorating forum. She's a rug restorer and incredibly ethical and honest person who can give you an opinion about what should be done so you can make an informed decision. I'm fairly sure she will agree with me on the age and origin of the rug.

Please don't feel bad about the wear. These rugs were made to be used and aging is part of their character. But the old ones are works of art (at least IMO) and they need to be protected and preserved.

boby, check your email - I sent you info on your rug.

Thanks Tryin2Grow. That had lots of good information, and how nice of you to do more research on it. Once again, proof that people on these forums are SO great. Sorry I had not replied yet. Thank you!
Boby

so the consensus seems to be that it is a sarouk?
Boby

I did forget to take pictures!! AARGH!
I seem to be swimming up stream as I don't think it's a sarouk.
Linda C

Here are pictures of my 2 Sarouks:
This first is in the family room, it's about 15 by 15 dated probably from the 40's. My parents bought it used in 1962.

Boby, It is not a Serouk.
I stand by my original I.D. that it is a Kerman.
Why are you thinking it is a Serouk?
Did you have someone else in to look at it?

I'm glad you reposted this as I had forgotton I had your picture and will show it to another dealer soon.

Jane

Jane, I showed a little picture to a dealer once many years ago and he said "It's a Sarouk"
Thanks,
Boby

Dealers are often wrong about some things....I had a "dealer" tell me that a serving piece was silver plate when it was stamped 850...I had another tell me a Sheraton stand was a sewing machine.
Get some more opinions, in addition to the ones given here.
Linda C

any new thoughts from anyone?

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